15 replies to this topic

[Jager]

For Le Mans in 1965, Shelby entered two 7 litre GT40 MkII's with heavily modified bodywork featuring a long nose with prominant winglets, and two vertical fins on the rear deck. Both cars failed relatively early in the race completing just 45 and 89 laps with clutch and gearbox problems repsectively.

http://www.qv500.com...dgt40mk2p1a.jpg

http://gt40.net/wp-c...chassis-106.jpg

I've search the forum for more information on these two cars, but found little other than the general GT40 thread below which predominantly deals with issues of the GT40's origins.

http://forums.autosp...w...1098&st=200

Interestingly it seems that both cars never raced either before or after Le Mans :

http://gt40.net/gt40...numbers/gt-106/

http://gt40.net/gt40...numbers/gt-107/


My questions are :

* What was the thinking behind the heavily modified bodywork ?
* Who designed it ?
* Did the design contribute to the cars failures (presumably not ?) ?
* Why wasn't this bodywork (or part thereof) ever seen again at Le Mans on subsequent GT40's from 1966 - 1969 ?
* Why were these cars never raced again after Le Mans?

There also seems relatively few pictures of these cars (perhaps because they didn't last that long), so would also be interested to see other pictures.

Edited by Jager, 24 June 2011 - 02:00.

[URY914]

Try going to this site and asking.....

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/

[Alan Cox]

Also, beware of posting photos for which you don't own the copyright, Jager.

[David Birchall]

From "The ford that Beat Ferrari": Page 87/88:
" The production Mark IIs were visually different from their immediate predecessors. Both carried slightly modified versions of the Len Bailey designed "Le Mans nose", which had proved to be both lighter and better aerodynamically than the prototypes' [in your attached photos] elongated nose sections; the tail, too, was altered, with bigger air-scoops feeding both the engine and the brakes."
It goes on to relate that both prototype Mark IIs were never raced again and were both subsequently destroyed-one in a testing accident and one when converted to a test rig.

Edit. I just reread your questions. According to "The Ford that Beat Ferrari", both the cars in your photos, chassis #106 and 107 were built of lighter sheet metal to save weight and this was severely stressed in the race-and pre race testing. It was felt that they were no longer strong enough to race again apparently. The automatic transmissions caused the failures of both cars apparently. Elongated noses, but different to the cars pictured were used again as noted above.

Edited by David Birchall, 23 June 2011 - 17:49.

[elansprint72]

106, as a result of the failures in the thinner structure was partially stripped for spares but does still exist, owned by Ellis King in New York.
107 was cut in half and mounted on a dynamometer for Le Mans simulation, afterwards the chassis was, in all probability, scrapped but the nose at least survives in its exact wind tunnel trim and is currently owned by Rick Nagel in Dallas.

Ronnie Spain's bible; 1986.

Photos from Le Mans testing do not show the vertical fins.

[vintagecon]

A quote from Hodges book The Ford GT40.
"Neither of the MkIIs had run at a race circuit - the second of them had not turned a wheel before it was sent to France - and the first official practice session had to be devoted to setting them up. Something was relearned about high-speed aerodynamics as a rear spoiler and stabilizing fins were added, the a nose spoiler to achieve balance was extemporized and nose strakes was also added. With these aids, and when the rear anti-roll bar was dispensed with, the big cars became well-mannered"

Another quote from same book.
"106-107: Kar Kraft, one apparently used by Hoolman and Moody and uprated to MkII specification in 1966, the other used for 427 engine test installations. Both apparently scrapped."

[Doug Nye]

106, as a result of the failures in the thinner structure was partially stripped for spares but does still exist, owned by Ellis King in New York.
107 was cut in half and mounted on a dynamometer for Le Mans simulation, afterwards the chassis was, in all probability, scrapped but the nose at least survives in its exact wind tunnel trim and is currently owned by Rick Nagel in Dallas.

Ronnie Spain's bible; 1986.

Photos from Le Mans testing do not show the vertical fins.

The alleged remains of one of these cars currently form the basis of a rebuild very slowly going together here in the UK...something to do with legal title to one of the chasssis serials having been acquired together with relevant contemporary bits and, I believe, a Tennant (?) repro chassis. Good people are involved, though I'm not too sure how convincing the provenance of their project might be.

DCN

[elansprint72]

The alleged remains of one of these cars currently form the basis of a rebuild very slowly going together here in the UK...something to do with legal title to one of the chasssis serials having been acquired together with relevant contemporary bits and, I believe, a Tennant (?) repro chassis. Good people are involved, though I'm not too sure how convincing the provenance of their project might be.

DCN

No doubt both of them will come to auction at some time in the future; signed off by he usual suspects; for an astronomical fee.

[Jager]

Also, beware of posting photos for which you don't own the copyright, Jager.

Alan, you'll see I've changed the images to links (even if they have been widely circulated in the public domain for 46 years).

Pity really as a forum without pictures is a dead forum.

[Duc-Man]

Also, beware of posting photos for which you don't own the copyright, Jager.

I wonder if that GT40 site has any copyrights of those pictures...

[Doug Nye]

I wonder if that GT40 site has any copyrights of those pictures...

Here are some shots of the 7-litre prototypes for which The GP Library holds the copyright. Just please don't push your luck with them...


1


2


3


4


5

All Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 24 June 2011 - 19:30.

[Jesper O. Hansen]

Here are some shots of the 7-litre prototypes for which The GP Library holds the copyright. Just don't push your luck with them...


4


All Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

Marvelous pictures, Doug, so thank you for posting. Looking at #4 I wondered with all its spoilers, how effective was the GT40 through the wind compared to the more rounded shapes of other major manufactures at the time like Ferrari, Porsche and Chaparral, at a time when the miniscule CD-Peugeot (1964) was recorded at a 0.12/0.13 cW wind resistence? The Ford does look like a rather squared box with a very big cockpit in comparison to contemporaries.

Jesper

[elansprint72]

Thanks for posting those Doug, not sure that I've seen any of them before.
Just looked up the race in "The Ford that beat Ferrari" and Friedman's excellent "Shelby GT40", they certainly were busy with the tin-snips that week-end, both cars started without the tail fins, canards and chin spoilers; #1 grew a short chin spoiler as shown here on #2 and then was fitted with a full-width "snow-plough" spoiler.

Bruce Mc is quoted as saying: "This is the first car I've driven that made Le Mans feel like the short circuit at Brands Hatch".

[Jager]

Thanks for all the information suplied above. Doug, I appreciate you sharing the pictures.

[T54]

I was privileged to see these two monsters run at Le Mans. at the beginning of the race, we were near the Mulsanne corner, watching these cars under braking. For the time they ran, they truly obliterated the 365P2... they also looked so cool! The sound they made was earth shattering.
This was the year where both the works Fords and Ferraris broke, mostly their gearboxes. Once they were gone and the battle was left between the red and yellow 275LMs, the excitement was gone, and we left!
Then it apparently got a bit exciting again!

Doug, thanks for the pictures and the memories!

[hlfuzzball]

In the late stages of the monumental Ford Racing Program, budgets were slashed to the bare minimum. All efforts were made to gather money to keep the program alive, including selling all sorts of bits, including chassies, out the "back door".

Edited by hlfuzzball, 04 July 2011 - 03:48.