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1960 Miller/Crosley Formula Junior


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#1 Quixotic

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 23:55

just saw this on EBAY........

Current Bid $5800.00

1960 Miller/Crosley Formula Junior

http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item35b2fb1190

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#2 David Birchall

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 00:34

I spent a lot of time investigating this car when it was last for sale, about six years ago. And I have quite a file of material on the car.
Since then a lot of money has been spent f*****g it up!
Nice car and there is a loophole in the rules that should allow it to run in FJ despite its being OHC.

#3 Quixotic

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 02:03

I spent a lot of time investigating this car when it was last for sale, about six years ago. And I have quite a file of material on the car.
Since then a lot of money has been spent f*****g it up!
Nice car and there is a loophole in the rules that should allow it to run in FJ despite its being OHC.



So it is more of a F3 car than a FJ car then?


#4 David Birchall

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 02:57

Yes, the car was built to run under the Formula Racing Association of California rules. This allowed the use of the Crosley OHC engine due to the lack of racing 500cc engines in the USA. Perhaps it was the F3 regulations that have the loophole... Anyway, if you were to turn up with this car-at least in it's original guise- at a FJ event I am sure you would have no trouble getting an entry. Just so long as you didn't challenge the leaders of course!

#5 David Birchall

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 14:48

I just dug out the "Formula Junior Guide", published in 1961 by Harry Morrow in California. Morrow had been one of the moving forces that got Formula III going in the States in the late fifties. The 500cc Club of America changed its name to the Formula Racing Association in 1960 to include the new Formula Junior.
Morrow describes in his book how the SCCA and the California Sports Car Club had no provision within their rules nor the interest, to promote open wheel racing cars.
On page 18 of his book Morrow says with regard to the FRAs propose FJ regulations:

"The supplemental regulations [of the Formula Racing Association-FRA] would include the readily-available 1250cc MG engine(with proportional weight increase); admit the use of the Crosley 750cc engine(even with overhead cam) since it was the sole American engine that fitted the displacement requirements, allow the use of aircraft-type disc brakes (available from the Crosley or aircraft surplus), and also approve the use of motorcycle gearboxes..."

He describes how subsequently the SCCA got off the pot and decreed that the FIA FJ regulations would be the only regulations acceptable in the US. Some cars, including this car were already built or being built by the time the SCCA made this announcement. I believe the Miller Crosley was actually raced before the SCCA announcement.

Consequently M'lud, I believe this car is acceptable as a Formula Junior racing car with the ohc Crosley engine.

#6 larryd

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 14:53

just saw this on EBAY........

Current Bid $5800.00

1960 Miller/Crosley Formula Junior

http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item35b2fb1190


The Ebay description refers to a "Stranguellini".

No doubt this is a reference to the (silenced) exhaust note ??

:p


#7 David McKinney

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 16:21

Consequently M'lud, I believe this car is acceptable as a Formula Junior racing car with the ohc Crosley engine.

... but only in the US


#8 David Birchall

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 17:00

Legally perhaps David, but, I would suggest that race meeting organisers in the UK at least would look on the car favourably and consider it an interesting addition to the grids.
I think that Duncan Rebagliatti (sp?) would look at it favourably too.
I am surprised that he is not a member of TNF...

edit: This is personal opinion of course. :blush:

Edited by David Birchall, 26 June 2011 - 17:15.


#9 HiRich

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 12:22

It definitely started out as a 500cc Formula III car (using the "specified 750cc engines" allowance) rather than as a Formula Junior.

I have found notes for:
Marchbanks, 2nd July 1961 (4th place in the Prize race, which specifically excluded FJunior)
Pomona, 9th July (F-III class winner)
500s continued until 1964 (and some beyond) on the West Coast, being rebranded Formula 4, but suffered badly when the first LeGrand/Cheetah car swept all before. I suspect that as FJunior was already peaking in 1961 in the USA, this car may not have been converted/bored out. If it were to come this side of the pond, it would need either Junior Register or 500OA approval.



#10 Bloggsworth

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 15:56

They allowed the Dreossi to race at Goodwood even though it wasn't a good fit for any regular class, except that for "Cars for drivers with large cojones..."

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#11 David Birchall

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 16:41

Another car with similar history to the Miller Crosley is to race at Goodwood this year:
From the Bring A Trailer site:

BaT Success Story: Whitfill Racer Headed to Goodwood

This just in from the new owner of the Whitfill Special racer we featured in April:

Hello,

I bought that thanks to Your recommendation. I managed to get it invited to the prestigious Goodwood Revival Race Meeting within a week of buying it, just days before this years invites went out.

Attached are a few pics of the car just before unlodading the container and in the Dutch transit warehouse. Have a laugh at the tiny car in the 20 foot container but I needed to get it shipped quickly to get it ready for the Goodwood Revival in September and did not bother about details when booking the passage. The car will be looked after for me by Hibberd Motor Engineers in England. I race a wide variety of cars ranging from a 1924 Lorraine Dietrich Le Mans to a 1972 March Cosworth F1 and a 1985 Aston Martin Group C car.

Keep up the Good Work,
Rudolf E.
Germany


#12 Bloggsworth

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 20:23

The Whitfill Special

#13 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 10:31

The remarkable Dreossi competed in the 32nd annual VARAC event held 2011-06-17/19. In the feature go on the Sunday, I was spectating from T1 and it was involved in a tight duel with a Lotus 61(attractively done up in a GLTL livery). Part way thru the feature event, the Lotus came around alone and dropped into the paddock. The Dreossi did not come round at all. No idea as to its fate. Fingers crossed that it hasn't been shunted.



#14 T54

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 12:49

The Whitfill Special

It was recently sold to a gentleman in Germany, to race at last...

#15 delcomb

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 19:39

The remarkable Dreossi competed in the 32nd annual VARAC event held 2011-06-17/19. In the feature go on the Sunday, I was spectating from T1 and it was involved in a tight duel with a Lotus 61(attractively done up in a GLTL livery). Part way thru the feature event, the Lotus came around alone and dropped into the paddock. The Dreossi did not come round at all. No idea as to its fate. Fingers crossed that it hasn't been shunted.

The FF spun right in front of me in Corner 3, but I managed to miss him. I spun off into the dirt and the left rear wheel dug in a bit. That popped the right axle out of the right CV joint (850 Mini), so I couldn't continue. Got a couple of cracks in the rear suspension being fixed + a new drive flange on order. Other than that, just a lot of sand and stones inside the car. Should be ready for Waterford Hills at the end of July, then Grattan in August. BTW, Ray Dreossi and his son was at the track on Saturday to watch the races.

Doug E.
'61 Dreossi Special

#16 bradbury west

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 21:11

Welcome to TNF, Doug, with your first post. Keep up the good work with the Dreossi. It is always good to see something different racing, away from mainstream stuff. It was good to meet you and Ma at the Revival test day and at the Revival last year.
Roger Lund

#17 Sharman

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 06:54

Ratbags would let it run but as a guest as is allowed with Monopostos

#18 Bloggsworth

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 07:54

It sold for $12,100

#19 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 11:22

PHEW! I'm relieved to learn that you, Doug, are none the worse for wear and that the Dreossi was only slightly damaged. Thanks for the update.



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#20 David Birchall

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 14:58

It sold for $12,100


It sold to a client of a TNFer apparently. It will be staying in the San Francisco area but may be seen at Goodwood.
What a fantastic deal for a front engined historic race car!


#21 David Birchall

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 01:52

At the risk of flogging a dead 'orse:

http://forums.autosp...=miller crosley

and

http://forums.autosp...=miller crosley

#22 opplock

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:47

The Whitfill Special


This car, of which I was previously unaware, was raced by Mike Hibberd in the front engined Formula Junior race at Brands Hatch yesterday. It was well off the pace of the FJ's but fascinating to watch.

#23 David McKinney

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:37

1) Did it race in period?
2) How does a car with a Triumph Twin qualify as a Junior?

#24 Sharman

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 11:20

1) Did it race in period?
2) How does a car with a Triumph Twin qualify as a Junior?


David
See my post 17
John

#25 David McKinney

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 14:07

Thanks John. That post is six weeks old. You expect me to remember? :)

And it doesn't answer Question 1...