32 replies to this topic

[austmcreg]

The Cooper Climax Type 51 was the dominant car in Australian open wheeler racing in 1960-61, many of them being resident down-under. At least four of these cars were resident in Tasmania for a period. Two of them have significant gaps in their known ownership history. Blanden's 'Historic Racing Cars in Australia' is incomplete on these cars (it took many letters for me to convince John of some info which he eventually put in the second book). Can anyone add to the following, or correct any errors?

Chassis F2/7/59. The ex works 1959 car brought to Australia in early 1960 by Brabham and sold to Bib Stillwell after Bathurst October 1960, primarily so Bib could get the 2 1/2 litre FPF engine. Then in late 1961, after Bib had raced it a few times including Longford 1961 (race only, not practice) to Lex Sternberg of Burnie, Tasmania fitted with the 2 litre FPF engine originally from the ex Victa car Stillwell also owned at the time. Raced by both Lex and his son David, their first meeting being Baskerville February 1962, now painted BRG with gold tail stripe and gold nose band (the FIA-nominated Australian national colours). Sold to Bob Wright of Somerset, Tasmania in late 1965. Bob had the paint refreshed (by my father, still in BRG and gold) and raced it once at Baskerville March 1966. Engine removed and fitted to his Tasma sports car. This is where it starts getting murky. Tasmanian Motorist magazine reported that John Pooley of Hobart was building a Chrysler V8-engined sports car using a Cooper as the basis. A picture clearly shows a Cooper chassis and rear suspension, along with cut tubes presumably to widen the frame. Nothing more was heard of this and Pooley subsequently raced a Mini Cooper S in 1967. I assume the cut Cooper was the ex Sternberg/Wright car, but I cannot be absolutely sure. It subsequently showed up in pieces during the 1970s with Peter Turnbull of Wynyard, who collected a lot of Cooper bits, using some in his Turnham GM6 sports car and the remainder sold as a kit of parts to John Blanden, who subsequently had the car rebuilt. Tony Hamilton, of Wynyard, a friend of Turnbull's also claims to have owned this car and a picture appears on his Turnham website, but after corresponding with him he is unable to be sure of its identity. Peter Turnbull told me years ago that the car had several owners in Hobart before he got it, and that the chassis plate may still exist in Hobart (it was not fitted when he had it). Blanden says the quoted frame number was stamped in the frame.

Picture below at Baskerville 1962 for Lex Sternberg's first race in the car. Brian Roberts photo.


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This is the TMM article, published in September 1966 edition:


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Can anyone fill in any gaps in this car's history? Was the Pooley car definitely this one?

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 07 July 2011 - 01:28.

[Ray Bell]

Out of curiosity, Rob, what date is that article?

I'm interested to know which Chrysler V8 they planned to use...

[austmcreg]

Out of curiosity, Rob, what date is that article?

I'm interested to know which Chrysler V8 they planned to use...

September 1966, Ray. I know that Wright used the Baskerville race to evaluate whether he kept racing the Cooper or took the engine to put in his (then Peugeot powered) Tasma. Being a sports car man at heart, he was probably never going to make any other decision. So if Pooley did have this chassis, it was probably sold in mid 1966, which fits the article timing.

I always assumed it would be a Chrysler Hemi, but I dont know. They would have been pretty scarce in Aus at that time. Wouldnt one of the local 318s (also used in the Dodge Phoenix locally) be a bit heavy for this use?

I will post the known details of the other 'many gaps' Cooper (chassis F2/7/60, ex Stan Jones, David Sternberg) in next few days.

The other two local Coopers were of course the Youl car F2/9/60, which is well documented and the Austin Miller car when he lived in Launceston for a couple of years. That car is reasonably well documented but was very much a grandfathers axe, probably having few of its original parts in its later restored form.

[Ray Bell]

A Chrysler Hemi would be significantly heavier than the Poly (the 'A' engine in Chrysler speak), the engine used in the Phoenix until that time...

On the other hand, by '66 the LA ('Lightweight A') was released here in the AP6 Valiants in 273ci form. In '67, however, the LA was here in 318 form.

Unlikely, I would think, it would be a 273. Not when it would have been difficult to find one, it was much smaller than the 318 and the weight difference was down to about 30lbs once you put an aftermarket inlet manifold on each of them. There is a belief, however, that the Poly is extraordinarily heavy, but it's an incorrect belief.

The other variations likely would be the 313 from a Chrysler Royal, which was a Poly with 0.030" smaller bores and a different bellhousing and crank flange bolt pattern, and the same thing applied to the earlier 318s from the '60 and '61 Phoenix and '58 and '59 Belvederes assembled here.

[ellrosso]

Rob, in 1969 or 1970 my older brother used to have his FX Holden (mildly modified) serviced by a guy called Bob Hunt who had a mechanical repair garage at Moonah. He used to race an FJ in I guess mid 60's and had one of the ex Brabham T51's at his workshop. I still recall sitting in this car as a skinny 13 yr old and remember it was like "sitting in a bathtub". Not really as romantic as I thought sitting in an ex F1 car which JB had graced was going to be, but pretty exciting nonetheless. It had a 1500 Cortina motor fitted (no engine cover) . The no 49 pic could be this car. The other car had a Falcon 2.8 six fitted - maybe an ex Vic Butler car. Vic raced a very quick lo line Cooper with a Falcon 6 fitted before he got the Elfin 600, but I think he did have a T51 before it.
Mick Cooper's Cooper Datsun may have been based on a T51 also. No 49 shot is Bask 1972. Other one is Syms 1969.

[jcurran]

September 1966, Ray. I know that Wright used the Baskerville race to evaluate whether he kept racing the Cooper or took the engine to put in his (then Peugeot powered) Tasma. Being a sports car man at heart, he was probably never going to make any other decision. So if Pooley did have this chassis, it was probably sold in mid 1966, which fits the article timing.

I always assumed it would be a Chrysler Hemi, but I dont know. They would have been pretty scarce in Aus at that time. Wouldnt one of the local 318s (also used in the Dodge Phoenix locally) be a bit heavy for this use?

I will post the known details of the other 'many gaps' Cooper (chassis F2/7/60, ex Stan Jones, David Sternberg) in next few days.

The other two local Coopers were of course the Youl car F2/9/60, which is well documented and the Austin Miller car when he lived in Launceston for a couple of years. That car is reasonably well documented but was very much a grandfathers axe, probably having few of its original parts in its later restored form.

Youl's car was owned by my father (Bob Curran) for a number of years, as was one of the Sternberg coopers. He purchased the Sternberg car in order to get gearbox parts to fix up the Youl car. The Sternberg car was purchased direct from David less engine. Bob then raced the Youl car for a while. The Sternberg car was slowly sold off in bits to a guy in Victoria (I have letters detailing the various transaction for parts). What was left over was a chassis unit and not much else. This was subsequently sold to a guy who worked at the Mercury Newspaper (name long forgotten). History from that point is unknown to me. Hopefully this helps fill in a few gaps. The Youl car was sold to Bob Jane, but I reckon that’s well known to most with an interest in these cars.

[austmcreg]

Youl's car was owned by my father (Bob Curran) for a number of years, as was one of the Sternberg coopers. He purchased the Sternberg car in order to get gearbox parts to fix up the Youl car. The Sternberg car was purchased direct from David less engine. Bob then raced the Youl car for a while. The Sternberg car was slowly sold off in bits to a guy in Victoria (I have letters detailing the various transaction for parts). What was left over was a chassis unit and not much else. This was subsequently sold to a guy who worked at the Mercury Newspaper (name long forgotten). History from that point is unknown to me. Hopefully this helps fill in a few gaps. The Youl car was sold to Bob Jane, but I reckon that’s well known to most with an interest in these cars.

Thanks James. I will reply in full at a more reasonable hour of the day. Yes the ex Youl car F2/9/60 is well documented and not a problem. Your information tends to confirm some of the late history of the second Sternberg car, F2/7/60, which was the former Stan Jones (the blue car) raced at Longford 1961.

Did your father race this ex Sternberg car at all? Do either of Ellrosso's photos look familiar to you?

I wonder if the leftover chassis you mentioned was used for the Mick Cooper owned Cooper Datsun which raced in 1970s (picture to follow).

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 07 July 2011 - 15:09.

[jcurran]

Thanks James. I will reply in full at a more reasonable hour of the day. Yes the ex Youl car F2/9/60 is well documented and not a problem. Your information tends to confirm some of the late history of the second Sternberg car, F2/7/60, which was the former Stan Jones (the blue car) raced at Longford 1961.

Did your father race this ex Sternberg car at all? Do either of Ellrosso's photos look familiar to you?

I wonder if the leftover chassis you mentioned was used for the Mick Cooper owned Cooper Datsun which raced in 1970s (picture to follow).

Rob Saward

G'day Rob,

My father (Woody) didn't ever race the ex Sternberg car. It was simply bought for spares, and as such was never in going condition when he owned it.

I know that Woody in later years did a bit of digging around to try and find out what happened to the ex Sternberg car, and to that end he spoke with Mick Cooper. From memory I think he found that the ex Mick Cooper came from Vic or somewhere on the mainland, and wasn't an ex tassy car from an earlier period. Best bet would be to talk with Mick again. Main point was its wasn't the ex Sternberg car. After lots of hunting and questions, he did find it was last seen out the back of a body works workshop in Moonah or there abouts, Tapps Body Works?

There was also a rumour at one stage not that long ago that it had been found and sold to someone in the UK or Europe, how true is anyone guess! A certain well know motor racing gent by the name of John had been actively hunting it down.

[austmcreg]

I wonder if the leftover chassis you mentioned was used for the Mick Cooper owned Cooper Datsun which raced in 1970s (picture to follow).

Rob Saward

This photo was taken by me at Baskerville somewhere between 1974 and 1979 - dont know the date and I dont have programs any longer. The Mick Cooper car (Cooper Datsun) clearly has Cooper origins and was was a fairly reliable and effective device. It seems to me the obvious candidate for this car's basis is F2/7/60, the ex Jones, Sternberg, Curran car mentioned by James as ending up as a chassis and bits only. However in this business, things are rarely that simple!

The 2.2 Climax engine for this car ended up in Ross Ambrose's Rennmax (nee Mildren) sports car. James says that Woody Curran bought the car less engine from Sternberg but Blanden says it was bought firstly by Ambrose. Either way, the result was the same.


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To the two photos posted by Ellrosso - Thanks Lindsay, I am fairly confident that (supported by your story) this is the remains of F2/7/59, the Ex Brabham, Stillwell, Sternberg, Wright car. Bob removed the engine AND gearbox, so it then needed a transmission. In both photos it is fitted with VW rear wheels and trailling arms that look suspiciously like formula vee, making it likely the next owner fitted a Cortina engine with VW transmission. axles etc. Both photos clearly show this, so I think it is the same car. SO it looks like we have two extra owners,
unknown c1969 possibly Vic Butler?? refer S-P 1969 photo
Bob Hunt, Hobart c1972 refer Baskervill photo 1972 number 49
Hunt seems very familiar to me as the name Peter Turnbull mentioned to me years ago as one of several Hobart owners, so probably then went to Peter Turnbull in bits.

Re the Pooley sports car: I have found several other references to this in Tasmanian Motorist:
In December 1965: "I have been hearing vague comments of a very big-engined sports car in the south. If it is a certain Cooper being widened and rebodied.......
In August 1966: " John Pooley has acquired a Cooper transmission to to mate with the HEMI HEAD V8 donk for his new project".

The first of these predates Bob Wright's acquistion and ownership of F2/7/59 (he had it until at least April 1966) and suggests that this Cooper F2/7/59 was NOT the basis for the stillborn sportscar project. Bob Wright bought a complete, going car direct from the Sternbergs, whom he knew well (both in the Burnie area car trade). The second Sternberg car F2/7/60 (ex Jones) was still being rebuilt by David Sternberg at this time (a TMM reference in August 66 said it ws set to go as soon as rings and bearings arrived. So which Cooper was the Pooley car?

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 08 July 2011 - 08:10.

[ellrosso]

Mick Cooper shouldn't be too hard to track down - don't know whether he is still down the Huon area though. I sold a print to his son a few years back, I think it was a present for his dad? I'm sure Rod Wilcox at Wilcox Bodyworks in Huonville would be able to tell you how to get Mick. Any clues as to the car from Symmons 1969?

[Ray Bell]

Do you know where to find Peter Turnbull?

If not, I might be able to help out...

[austmcreg]

Do you know where to find Peter Turnbull?

If not, I might be able to help out...

Yes, no problem Ray. My father is in semi-regular contact with him - Peter did his panel beating apprenticeship for Dad back in 60s. Last time I spoke to him about this subject he could not remember any more details than what I have outlined.

Lindsay, the 1969 S-P car is same one as 1972 Baskerville, sorry if I did not make that clear in my last post. Unusual , non Cooper rear suspension arms are clearly the same.

Does anyone have any 1969 Symmons Plains programs?

Rob

Edited by austmcreg, 08 July 2011 - 08:12.

[SJ Lambert]

Thanks James. I will reply in full at a more reasonable hour of the day. Yes the ex Youl car F2/9/60 is well documented and not a problem. Your information tends to confirm some of the late history of the second Sternberg car, F2/7/60, which was the former Stan Jones (the blue car) raced at Longford 1961.

Did your father race this ex Sternberg car at all? Do either of Ellrosso's photos look familiar to you?

I wonder if the leftover chassis you mentioned was used for the Mick Cooper owned Cooper Datsun which raced in 1970s (picture to follow).

Rob Saward

G'day Rob

Here's the Stan Jones car "in Tassie" with Stan at the wheel!!!



Cheers

James

[austmcreg]

G'day Rob

Here's the Stan Jones car "in Tassie" with Stan at the wheel!!!



Cheers

James

I always thought this was the best looking of all the Type 51 Coopers - a lovely shade of blue which is I think a throwback to Stan's Maybach days. It was described by someone in AMS at the time as 'duck egg blue'. This must have been from practice (March 1961) because Stillwell's Aston Martin behind Jones only ran in practice - this is the first photo I have seen of it at Longford. There is another connection with the Tasmanian-owned Type 51s in that Stillwell flew over on Saturday his red (no yellow stripe) Cooper , F2/7/59, the ex Brabham car that I started this thread with. I have a colour photo showing this car on Monday's race, but it is not mine to post unless Andrew Lamont is reading this and gives me the OK.

One of the distinguishing features of T51 Coopers is the vent on upper cowl. This is different in shape and position on just about every Cooper and is (one of) the identifying features of each car. This one on the Jones car is different to most others but looks suspiciously like that on Ellrosso's two photos, which I think are the ex Brabham, Stillwell car mentioned above. I am worried I might have jumped the gun on that car, but that would mean James Curran's info is wrong??? We are not there yet!


Rob

Edited by austmcreg, 10 July 2011 - 12:18.

[terry mcgrath]

this was obviously one of Pooley's later creations and probably was going to be more succesfull than his earlier special c1960/61 was a cut down 1934 SS1 Jaguar chassis and grille fitted with a Zephyr MK1 engine. The car look more like a large Lotus Super 7. It was referred to as the Pooley MK1.
So what was the Pooley MK2 with the car below being the MK3

Tasmanian Motorist magazine reported that John Pooley of Hobart was building a Chrysler V8-engined sports car using a Cooper as the basis. A picture clearly shows a Cooper chassis and rear suspension, along with cut tubes presumably to widen the frame. Nothing more was heard of this and Pooley subsequently raced a Mini Cooper S in 1967.

Edited by terry mcgrath, 09 July 2011 - 01:38.

[jcurran]

Mick Cooper shouldn't be too hard to track down - don't know whether he is still down the Huon area though. I sold a print to his son a few years back, I think it was a present for his dad? I'm sure Rod Wilcox at Wilcox Bodyworks in Huonville would be able to tell you how to get Mick. Any clues as to the car from Symmons 1969?

Last I knew he was at Copping.

Edited by jcurran, 08 July 2011 - 22:13.

[ellrosso]

Rob, I'll go thru the book and see if I still have contact details for his son if you have a problem getting onto Mick. Sounds like he is down the Channel area according to James. Actually James, did Woody know Vic Butler at all? I know Vic died in his early 50's up in QLD somewhere but I'm wondering if any of his family are still in Tassy. Terry, the Pooley Mk 2 was a VW powered device - shots on the ORP website if you type Pooley into Advanced Search. Went pretty well too. Rob, I only have 1 program from 1969 - the Gold Star meeting and no Coopers at that meeting I'm afraid. Re that 1969 Cooper shot, I used to know who was driving that but cannot recall now. Pretty sure it was a Vic Butler car though - definitely not Vic driving though! He was a big bloke...
Ellis may have some 1969 programs and I'm sure Peter Mather would have some too.

[austmcreg]

this was obviously one of Pooley's later creations and probably was going to be more succesfull his earlier special c1960/61 was a cut down 1934 SS1 Jaguar chassis and grille fitted with a Zephyr MK1 engine. The car look more like a large Lotus Super 7. It was referred to as the Pooley MK1.
So what was the Pooley MK2 with the car below being the MK3

Hi Terry,
The Pooley Mk II was a VW engined sports car , I think on a VW floor pan, which was raced from about 1963-65.
Rob

[austmcreg]

Rob, I'll go thru the book and see if I still have contact details for his son if you have a problem getting onto Mick. Sounds like he is down the Channel area according to James. Actually James, did Woody know Vic Butler at all? I know Vic died in his early 50's up in QLD somewhere but I'm wondering if any of his family are still in Tassy. Terry, the Pooley Mk 2 was a VW powered device - shots on the ORP website if you type Pooley into Advanced Search. Went pretty well too. Rob, I only have 1 program from 1969 - the Gold Star meeting and no Coopers at that meeting I'm afraid. Re that 1969 Cooper shot, I used to know who was driving that but cannot recall now. Pretty sure it was a Vic Butler car though - definitely not Vic driving though! He was a big bloke...
Ellis may have some 1969 programs and I'm sure Peter Mather would have some too.

Thanks for contact details Lindsay, will follow up. I have contact details for John Pooley as well and am following up there.

Further work has confirmed to me that the car in your two posted photos is likely to be the Jones/Sternberg/Curran car referred to by James as ending up as not much more than a chassis - that is consistent, becasue if you look at it, there is not much Cooper on that car other than the chassis and some body panels. Looks like all the suspension and running gear (Peugeot front, VW rear) has been replaced.

Both original cars met their sad end because the Climax FPF engine and Cooper Knight gearboxes were more valuable than the chassis parts.

I am gathering info on David Sternbergs use of both cars (I have a lot more than I thought before I started this) and will post that sometime next week. He had a fair bit of success in both cars.


Rob

[jcurran]

Thanks for contact details Lindsay, will follow up. I have contact details for John Pooley as well and am following up there.

Further work has confirmed to me that the car in your two posted photos is likely to be the Jones/Sternberg/Curran car referred to by James as ending up as not much more than a chassis - that is consistent, becasue if you look at it, there is not much Cooper on that car other than the chassis and some body panels. Looks like all the suspension and running gear (Peugeot front, VW rear) has been replaced.

Both original cars met their sad end because the Climax FPF engine and Cooper Knight gearboxes were more valuable than the chassis parts.

I am gathering info on David Sternbergs use of both cars (I have a lot more than I thought before I started this) and will post that sometime next week. He had a fair bit of success in both cars.


Rob

G'day Rob,

After digging around I found several letters detailing the sale of various parts from the Sternberg cooper. Most were sold during late 1973 to David Rapley, The Patch 3792.
I not sure how this fits with the time line you have been working with. Based on this it seems what was left of the car was sold after 73. Or it may have been sold prior to this, however, why sell of the chassis and body but keep all the parts? More likely sold last. I might need to ask a few of dads old mates to confirm when the chassis was sold.

PM if you want any more info.

James

[ellrosso]

More shots from ORP library.

[austmcreg]

More shots from ORP library.

Thanks for these, Lindsay. The first, car number 76, is clearly the same car as in the two photos in post number 5. The Jones Sternberg chassis F2/7/60 was the only one of the Australian Cooper T51s to have that particular shape of air inlet above the nose, and the 'round hole' (I call it that because I am not sure what it is) immediately in front of it. Both features can be seen in the photos of the blue Stan Jones car and in latest photo of David Sternberg at Baskerville in 1966 (number 15). I humbly submit that the known history of this car is as follows:

Chassis F2/7/60
Purchased new Stan Jones 1960 Raced 1960-61 variously with 2.2, 2.4 and 2.5 litre FPF. Painted blue. Sold at auction of Jones cars and business items in 1965 (does anyone know the auction details?)
Purchased by David Sternberg (Burnie, Tasmania) at Jones auction, with 2.2 litre FPF. Rebuilt and raced in Tasmania 1966-67 with much success. See photo with number 15, above.Painted white with black stripes. Engine sold to Ross Ambrose (Burnie, Tasmania) 1967 and installed in Rennmax (nee Mildren) sportscar.
Purchased as rolling chassis with gearbox by Woody Curran (Hobart, Tasmania) mainly to obtain the Cooper gearbox as spares for the ex Youl/Hobden chassis F2/9/60 already in his ownership. Car was progressively stripped of Cooper componenets whcih were sold as spares to other Cooper owners, David Raply in Victoria being recipient of some of these.
Chassis and body (all that remained of original car) sold to unknown owner(s) in Tasmania. Bulit up with Cortina 4 cyclinder and (Likely) VW transmission, and raced in Tasmania c1969-71. Reference three photos ex Ellrosso, one with rear cowl in place, later two with no rear bodywork. We need to identify this owner or owners.
Current chassis location unknown.

The other photos posted shown Woody Curran (number 27) and Jack Hobden (left of photo) pushing, in the ex Youl chasis F2/9/60. This cars ownership has never been a mystery, but it is worth spelling out, as follows:

Chassis F2/9/6-
Purchased new by John Youl, Synnons Plains, Tasmania in late 1960.
Purchased by Jack Hobden (or possibly his father Louis Hobden) in about 1963. Raced sporadically in Tasmania 1965-64 with some success (and some unreliability).
Purchased by Woody Curran in 1966 with damaged gearbox, which was replaced by that from ex Sternberg chassis f2/7/60. Raced in Tasmania with minor success 1967-70.
Purchased by Bob Jane, Victoria, c1971 as exchange involving a Brabham. Unused, in storage.
Purchased by Ray Delaney, Victoria, 1983. restored. raced in 1986 historic meeting.
Purchased by USA interests 1986, where it presumably remains today.
Note that the nose air scoop on this car has always been in the same position, but that it was obviouly modified in shape by Curran. It retained that when with Jane and Delaney.

Finally, the photo of Vic Butler in Cooper Ford 6 cylinder (number 26, passing clubman at Baskerville). Visually this car (apart from the engine) is a dead ringer for the later Mick Cooper owner Cooper Datsun; so much so that it must be the same chassis. In the Butler photo it has Brabham wheels, replaced by Mawer wheels when owned by Cooper. I have been told, on good authority, that this car originated as one of the ex Bowmaker Yeoman Coopers, all of which were later chassis (not Type 51s). This car is reputedly one of the two 'special' formula 1 Coopers built by Bowmaker team around Cooper Formula Junior chassis, which came to Australia either as a chassis only or rolling chassis.

Please note that this thread was intended to unearth some more on the Tasmanian Cooper T51s, which it is doing. There is an old TNF thread, not seen for a while, on Australian T51s, which contains a lot on particularly the Bill Patterson cars.

Rob Saward

[David McKinney]

Chassis F2/7/60
Current chassis location unknown.

Reportedly via Ray Gibbs to the USA

[jcurran]

Thanks for these, Lindsay. The first, car number 76, is clearly the same car as in the two photos in post number 5. The Jones Sternberg chassis F2/7/60 was the only one of the Australian Cooper T51s to have that particular shape of air inlet above the nose, and the 'round hole' (I call it that because I am not sure what it is) immediately in front of it. Both features can be seen in the photos of the blue Stan Jones car and in latest photo of David Sternberg at Baskerville in 1966 (number 15). I humbly submit that the known history of this car is as follows:

Chassis F2/7/60
Purchased new Stan Jones 1960 Raced 1960-61 variously with 2.2, 2.4 and 2.5 litre FPF. Painted blue. Sold at auction of Jones cars and business items in 1965 (does anyone know the auction details?)
Purchased by David Sternberg (Burnie, Tasmania) at Jones auction, with 2.2 litre FPF. Rebuilt and raced in Tasmania 1966-67 with much success. See photo with number 15, above.Painted white with black stripes. Engine sold to Ross Ambrose (Burnie, Tasmania) 1967 and installed in Rennmax (nee Mildren) sportscar.
Purchased as rolling chassis with gearbox by Woody Curran (Hobart, Tasmania) mainly to obtain the Cooper gearbox as spares for the ex Youl/Hobden chassis F2/9/60 already in his ownership. Car was progressively stripped of Cooper componenets whcih were sold as spares to other Cooper owners, David Raply in Victoria being recipient of some of these.
Chassis and body (all that remained of original car) sold to unknown owner(s) in Tasmania. Bulit up with Cortina 4 cyclinder and (Likely) VW transmission, and raced in Tasmania c1969-71. Reference three photos ex Ellrosso, one with rear cowl in place, later two with no rear bodywork. We need to identify this owner or owners.
Current chassis location unknown.

The other photos posted shown Woody Curran (number 27) and Jack Hobden (left of photo) pushing, in the ex Youl chasis F2/9/60. This cars ownership has never been a mystery, but it is worth spelling out, as follows:

Chassis F2/9/6-
Purchased new by John Youl, Synnons Plains, Tasmania in late 1960.
Purchased by Jack Hobden (or possibly his father Louis Hobden) in about 1963. Raced sporadically in Tasmania 1965-64 with some success (and some unreliability).
Purchased by Woody Curran in 1966 with damaged gearbox, which was replaced by that from ex Sternberg chassis f2/7/60. Raced in Tasmania with minor success 1967-70.
Purchased by Bob Jane, Victoria, c1971 as exchange involving a Brabham. Unused, in storage.
Purchased by Ray Delaney, Victoria, 1983. restored. raced in 1986 historic meeting.
Purchased by USA interests 1986, where it presumably remains today.
Note that the nose air scoop on this car has always been in the same position, but that it was obviouly modified in shape by Curran. It retained that when with Jane and Delaney.

Finally, the photo of Vic Butler in Cooper Ford 6 cylinder (number 26, passing clubman at Baskerville). Visually this car (apart from the engine) is a dead ringer for the later Mick Cooper owner Cooper Datsun; so much so that it must be the same chassis. In the Butler photo it has Brabham wheels, replaced by Mawer wheels when owned by Cooper. I have been told, on good authority, that this car originated as one of the ex Bowmaker Yeoman Coopers, all of which were later chassis (not Type 51s). This car is reputedly one of the two 'special' formula 1 Coopers built by Bowmaker team around Cooper Formula Junior chassis, which came to Australia either as a chassis only or rolling chassis.

Please note that this thread was intended to unearth some more on the Tasmanian Cooper T51s, which it is doing. There is an old TNF thread, not seen for a while, on Australian T51s, which contains a lot on particularly the Bill Patterson cars.

Rob Saward

F2/9/6 To USA, purchased by Art Valdez. An intersting side note to this story is that Woody sold the Cooper to purchase Brabham BT23e from Bob Jane (ex Tasman car for Jack). Art Valdez also had (until recently) this car in his collection. So two cars both owned at one time by Woody, later into the same collection in the US.

[ellrosso]

Just discovered the shot I posted earlier from Symmons 1969 (has a "6" visible in the number on the nose - side on shot G Harrisson) was entered by Vic Butler and driven by Paul Goss, John's brother. Paul was one of the quick humpy drivers in the early days of Richmond Speedway in 1968.

[austmcreg]

I have been able to confirm several of the incomplete parts pf the ownership history of Cooper T51 chassis F2/7/59, the ex works 1959 car brought to Australia in early 1960 by Brabham and raced at Longford, Philip Island in March and stored in Australia for Brabham to race at Bathurst in October 1960.

It was sold to Bib Stillwell after Bathurst, primarily so Bib could get the 2 1/2 litre FPF engine. In late 1961, after Bib had raced it a few times including Longford 1961 (race only, not practice), it was sold to Lex Sternberg of Burnie, Tasmania fitted with the 2 litre FPF engine originally from the ex Victa T51 Cooper which Stillwell also owned at the time. Lex's first meeting was at Baskerville in February 1962, now painted BRG with gold tail stripe and gold nose band (the FIA-nominated Australian national colours). Lex crashed the car in practice at Longford a few weeks later, and did not drive it again. David Sternberg took over the car, initally running at hillclimbs and sprints only, but later graduating to circuit races at BAskerville and Symmons Plains. David became something of a hillclimb specilaist, being very strong in this field. In 1964 -65 Sternberg was the main opposition to Lyn Archer in tasmanian racing car events.

The Cooper was sold to Bob Wright of Somerset, Tasmania around January or February 1966, when it became known that the Sternbergs had purchased a later and less used T51 Cooper, the Stan Jones car F2/7/60. Bob had the paint refreshed (by my father, still in BRG and gold) and raced it once at Baskerville April 1966, finishing third in the Tasmanian Racing Car Championship. Wright then removed the engine and gearbox, which were fitted to his Tasma sports car (retrospectively the Tasma SC1).

The Cooper rolling chassis (less engine and gearbox) was sold to John Pooley of Hobart who in late 1966 commenced widening the chassis to build a Chrysler Hemi- engined sports car. This project was subsequently abandoned and Pooley raced a Mini Cooper S during 1967. He also had some serious illness about this time.

The remains of the Cooper were re-assembled, and it is believed to have gone though one or two Hobart owners who have not yet been traced before being purchased by Robert ‘Woody’ Curran. Thus, F2/7/59 became the third Tasmanian Cooper Climax to have been through his hands. It was purchased from Curran for $250 in about 1969, by Tony Hamilton of Wynyard, Tasmania. A photo of the car in Hamilton's ownership, looking visually complete, is on the Turnham website. Hamilton, with Peter Turnbull, had built the first Turnham sports car around a 1500c VW engine. Hamilton intended to construct an open-wheeler using a new chassis, the Cooper uprights, steering rack and brakes and his VW 1500 engine. When he moved to Darwin to live, in about 1970, Hamilton sold the Cooper to Peter Turnbull, who subsequently used some components in the construction of his Turnham Climax sports car (which used the Climax 2.5 FPF ex Davison / Tresize Cooper and then Mitchell RM1 sports car). In an interesting twist, the chassis of the Turnham Climax was based on the original Tasma SC1 chassis, now returned from Victoria where it was Ken Hastings' Atom Climax. Peter retained the Cooper chassis, body and many other parts, which were sold in 1974 as a kit of parts (with the ex Davison / Mitchell 2.5 FPF engine, a Holden engine replacing it in the Turnham sports car) to John Blanden, who subsequently had the car rebuilt. Peter Turnbull told me many years ago that the chassis plate had been removed by one of the unknown Hobart owners. Blanden told me that the number F2/7/59 was stamped in the frame but I cannot verify that this was so. Blanden subsequently sold the restored car to the USA via Peter Giddings in 1986 and it is believed to remain there today.

Edited by austmcreg, 27 December 2011 - 11:27.

[ellrosso]

Rob, did Peter Turnbull ever race the Turnham Climax? I can only recall it with the Holden (186?) motor on track.

[austmcreg]

Rob, did Peter Turnbull ever race the Turnham Climax? I can only recall it with the Holden (186?) motor on track.

Yes, he ran it with Climax engine for about 1 year, which I think was 1972, but I would stand correction on that. I know he did the Symmons Plains round of the Australian Sports Car Chanpionship and finished in a reasonable place. He had a couple of good races against the similarly engined Elfin 350 Climax, which I think would have been Steve Roomes at that stage (Jim Miller also had it but I think earlier??). The Holden 186 engine was fitted when it became obvious the Climax needed a rebuild and the cost of that was looking daunting. The car was renamed Turnham GM6.

Rob Saward

[ellrosso]

Yes, he scored a point at the 1972 ASSC round at Symmons in it with Climax power. I was at that meeting too - can't remember him at all. I'm sure Geoff Harrisson would have a shot or two of him from that meeting - must check the index. Have you had any luck with John Soundy Rob?

[austmcreg]

I have been able to confirm several of the incomplete parts pf the ownership history of Cooper T51 chassis F2/7/59, the ex works 1959 car brought to Australia in early 1960 by Brabham and raced at Longford, Philip Island in March and stored in Australia for Brabham to race at Bathurst in October 1960.

Blanden subsequently sold the restored car to the USA via Peter Giddings in 1986 and it is believed to remain there today.

I have just re-read the thread 'How many T51 Coopers came to Australia', which has been dormant for some time, and realise that I have missed updated information on recent ownership of F2/7/59. Stated at that time to be with John Clark in England.

[David McKinney]

Yes, and now numbered F2-27-59 (as it was originally)

[cooper997]

This is a good excuse to bring this thread of Rob's out of the archive.

 

Bryan Thomson has found this thread and as of this afternoon pointed out that in Lindsay's post 21 set of photos - the colour 17 Cooper T51 is himself at the 1963 Longford meeting in the ex Victa/Stillwell chassis. So not Jack Hobden in 1965.

 

Hopefully Lindsay will note this for his archive.

 

Stephen

[Tim Murray]

This is a good excuse to bring this thread of Rob's out of the archive.

OT, sorry, but does anyone know how Rob is doing these days? We miss his input.