16 replies to this topic

[MichaelJP]

Just been watching the TV coverage of the FoS, having not managed to get there this year.

Was interested to see the W165 being driven up the hill by John Surtees. Infuriating commentary though (David Croft?) as not once was the car mentioned, apart from being described as a "classic Formula 1 car"!!

Anyway, was wondering if anyone knows if this car is original and one of the actual cars driven in their one-off race at Tripoli in 1939?

[D-Type]

The commentator at Goodwood said it was the Lang car.

[Vitesse2]

Just been watching the TV coverage of the FoS, having not managed to get there this year.

Was interested to see the W165 being driven up the hill by John Surtees. Infuriating commentary though (David Croft?) as not once was the car mentioned, apart from being described as a "classic Formula 1 car"!!

Anyway, was wondering if anyone knows if this car is original and one of the actual cars driven in their one-off race at Tripoli in 1939?

Definitely original and - as Duncan says - the Lang car: there are subtle differences between the two, most notably the shape of the grilles.

If you ever find the third one, let us know, as it's been AWOL since about 1941 ...

[Hamish Robson]

Is this the car?



With a certain J Mass at the helm

[Pedro 917]

Here's a picture of John Surtees in the W165 that I took Saturday afternoon.
I got seriously sunburned on my upper arms standing on a platform and had to stay out of the sun on Sunday ...

[MichaelJP]

A lovely looking car. And a great sound as well.

What's the history - weren't these cars impounded by the Swiss from Caracciola after WW2? Did they then go back to Mercedes?

[Tim Murray]

[Wouter Melissen]

Here are more shots of the W165 in action at Goodwood:

http://www.ultimatec...-Benz-W165.html

[Alan Cox]

It has appeared before at the FoS, when it was driven by Ron Dennis.

[opplock]

It has appeared before at the FoS, when it was driven by Ron Dennis.

I saw it in 2003 when it was driven by John Surtees. I spent about 30 minutes standing nearby while it was warmed up on Friday morning and walked away feeling as though I'd consumed about 3 pints of winter ale such was the effect of the alcohol fumes. The men who raced these cars are worthy of great respect.

[Paul Parker]

Is this the car?



With a certain J Mass at the helm

Note the offset aeroscreen, a result of the driver being similarly offset due to the angled engine and transmission which in the narrow W165 chassis did not have enough width to accomodate an orthodox central driving position.

[Doug Nye]

Stunned by being invited to try the W165 for size, this is starry-eyed dramatist Matthew Whiteman, long-time E-Type Jaguar owner and fan, racing enthusiast and writer of the BBC TV adaptation of Geoffrey Wellum's magnificent Battle of Britain book, 'First Light'. Here the engine/drive-line offset can clearly be seen. The rear-mounted gearbox/final-drive design was that pinched postwar for the similarly 1 1/2-litre but V16-cylinder BRM P15.

Photo Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 07 July 2011 - 21:26.

[D-Type]

A lovely looking car. And a great sound as well.

What's the history - weren't these cars impounded by the Swiss from Caracciola after WW2? Did they then go back to Mercedes?

I think that's the story in a nutshell. I'm surprised nobody has responded with more details.

[MichaelJP]

I think that's the story in a nutshell. I'm surprised nobody has responded with more details.

Hopefully someone will as there are plenty of experts on this era in this forum:)

It's always been fascinating to me how the story of the creation of the W165 goes, reading Neubauers autobiography it seems as though the massive effort to complete these brand new 1.5 litre cars was purely to annoy the Italians by winning at Tripoli. Was it really that important to put one over on Mussolini?

Did the newspapers and media of that time really pay attention to what must have been relatively unimportant events in comparison to the gathering storm clouds of WW2?

[D-Type]

The lack of response may be because the W165 has featured in several threads previously and people don't want to repeat themselves. Run a search for "W165" and you'll turn up a two page list, for example there is this one

[Tim Murray]

According to Caracciola's autobiography the two 165s were promised him by Dr Kissel of MB in 1941, but it was not until early 1945 that they were able to be transported to Switzerland, where they were then impounded by the Swiss authorities. Caracciola took the case to court, but eventually lost. In 1950 the cars were advertised for sale as 'war loot' and were bought by the Swiss branch of Daimler-Benz AG.

[Vitesse2]

Hopefully someone will as there are plenty of experts on this era in this forum:)

It's always been fascinating to me how the story of the creation of the W165 goes, reading Neubauers autobiography it seems as though the massive effort to complete these brand new 1.5 litre cars was purely to annoy the Italians by winning at Tripoli. Was it really that important to put one over on Mussolini?

Did the newspapers and media of that time really pay attention to what must have been relatively unimportant events in comparison to the gathering storm clouds of WW2?

The mass media didn't, but the specialist press certainly did. You can find lots of feverish speculation in the mags of the time - British, French, Italian, Swiss - from October 1938 on regarding the rumoured Mercedes Benz: this increased in early 1939 after the Berlin Motor Show where Hühnlein of the NSKK and Furmanik of FASI were both reported as being in favour of the widely-expected new 1500cc International Formula for 1941-43. Much of the press misinterpreted their remarks as a statement that they wanted this introduced in 1940: whatever they wanted, that was very unlikely to happen as the CSI meetings to determine the new formula were scheduled for September and October 1939. Inevitably rumours started about Auto Union as well, but there is no way AU could have had a 1500cc car ready for 1940. Alfa Romeo were also aiming for 1941 with their rear-engined 512, which was still on the drawing board in mid-39. At least three other 1500cc cars were also on the stocks for 1941.

Edited by Vitesse2, 08 July 2011 - 11:59.