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Mystery sports car - Longford


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#1 ellrosso

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 10:13

I received this image from Pat Smith the other week - didn't have a caption and I reckon its probably taken at Longford in 1964. Unfortunately 1964 is one year I don't have a program for so I'm wondering if any TNF'rs have any clues to this car.

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 10:53

The name "Pegasus" comes to mind...

But I don't know why!

#3 austmcreg

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 11:39

I received this image from Pat Smith the other week - didn't have a caption and I reckon its probably taken at Longford in 1964. Unfortunately 1964 is one year I don't have a program for so I'm wondering if any TNF'rs have any clues to this car.

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I very much doubt it is from Longford 1964. Sports car #2 that year was John Pooley's Pooley Mk II, which this very definitely is not! Same goes for 1965. In 1966 #2 was Matich's Elfin Traco Olds.
John Pooley seemed to race with # 2 in Tas from 1964 through 1967 (in Cooper S), so I reckon this was taken after that, say 1968-69, as Pooley retired about then (later re-appearing in 1970s with Porsche).

I reckon it is later than 1964 - the rear end of the body is vaguely Lotus 23 styled, so whoever built the body clearly had that in mind, but 64 is a bit early for the local copiers. The wheel arch flares are similar to what all the 23s grew in about 1967-68 as tyres became wider, too. So I reckon this is from Symmons Plains in about 1968 or later.....

Just a stab in the dark.... Romac Ford (Bob McFarlane)?



#4 ellrosso

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 12:02

Not sure its the Romac Rob, back of it was squared off on the Romac in my memory - might send it thru to Peter Turnbull and see what he reckons. It could be Symmons 1969 as there were shots from the Gold Star meeting that year.

#5 ellrosso

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 12:07

Actually Ray I know why you mention the Pegasus as it does look similar to this car. I have a shot of it driven by Bill Peacock at Phillip Is in a 1968 issue of Autosportsman.

#6 Gordon Graham

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 12:16

I think this is the Pegasus (Amaroo, about 82-84) and there are some similarities

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#7 GMACKIE

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 21:59

In 1979, or thereabouts, I was in Ted Proctors workshop at Arncliffe, and he was building a car that looked very much like that [No.7]. Ted was very clever with fibreglass, and he built the body WITHOUT a mould, using narrow strips of f/glass, joined together. The body was not finished when I saw it, but from memory, it could be that car.

#8 ellrosso

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:45

Don't think its the Manx Greg as the nose is quite different for starters. Few differences to the Pegasus but looks very similar to my eye. Both pics courtesy of Autosportsman, 1969

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#9 austmcreg

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 09:08

Don't think its the Manx Greg as the nose is quite different for starters. Few differences to the Pegasus but looks very similar to my eye.

I think the posts suggesting Pegasus and Manx are missing the point a bit and agree with Lindsay that it is not the Manx.

Jim Smith only (as far as I am aware) photographed in Tasmania, so the original car was in Tas, though probably not at Longford as the race number does not work for any of 1963-68 meetings.

I think the guy in shorts looking closely at the car is Errol Northrop, prominent Northwest Tasmania enthusiast and NWCC member, who would have been well known to Jim & Pat Smith, so that (if so) tends to confirm it as a Tas photo, and we can rule out the Pegasus (clearly different in many details and it never went to Tas as far as I know) and the Manx, which is very different and was never in Tas in that form, though it did have both prior and later Tasmanian connections (with different bodies).

It is off topic, but the Proctor Manx was built around the chassis of the ex Bob Wright Tasma Climax (probably the same 2 litre FPF engine), and later in its third incarnation, became the Turnham Climax (with a different, 2.5 FPF Climax engine ex Wally Mitchell ex Davison, later GM6). My interest in this? My father built the chassis for Bob Wright.

Rob Saward

#10 ellrosso

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 12:14

Pat mentioned Errol was a good friend of hers. Its definitely a Tassy photo taken by Pat. I certainly don't recall reading anything regarding the Pegasus racing in Tas
but Bill Peacock did race at Longford in 1966 driving a white MG special. I wonder if he may have bought the Pegasus down at some other time. The nose/headlight openings look identical to me, as do the rear humps as shown in the Amaroo shot. I know the screen and roll bar are different in the later shots but they could have been modified over time.

#11 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 13:08

The roll bar is different in all three pics!

The only other visible change is to the upper part of the doors... I'm fairly sure it's the Pegasus, but it's possible it's a car built with a body from the same mold as the Pegasus.

Could the pic be much later than 1964?

#12 ellrosso

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 22:52

I'm trying to go on the other shots from the various meetings Pat has sent me and the lighting conditions on the day. If its not Longford it could be Symmons 1966 when the Beechey Mustang came down. I'm wondering if either Rob or Ellis may have a program from that meeting. Yes they certainly weren't content with the roll bar Ray! Mirrors and screen also had changes. Could have been another car out of the same mould though, unusual for the headlight scallops/lights to be exactly the same though.

#13 DanTra2858

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 00:23

I received this image from Pat Smith the other week - didn't have a caption and I reckon its probably taken at Longford in 1964. Unfortunately 1964 is one year I don't have a program for so I'm wondering if any TNF'rs have any clues to this car.

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For what it's worth the car to me appears to be unpainted, the colour is a grey gelcoat that is commenly used during construction of panels. So this would indicate how new the car was when pictures were taken.

#14 ellrosso

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 00:58

Dead right DanTra, which makes me think it could be from Symmons 1966, the year the Pegasus was built.

#15 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 02:56

As far as the roll bar goes, it's a bit of a quandary, really...

Easy to understand increasing the height of the full-width bar, but then to go back to a single-seat bar at a time when full width bars were mandated doesn't make sense.

#16 DanTra2858

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 04:07

As far as the roll bar goes, it's a bit of a quandary, really...

Easy to understand increasing the height of the full-width bar, but then to go back to a single-seat bar at a time when full width bars were mandated doesn't make sense.


Ray which ever way you look at the roll bars on this car they do not look safe, but they were there just to satisy the rules, I remember a photo of Moss in a Lotus 19 at an American race with 3 pieces of Conduit pipe welded together to satisfy the rules, thank God we have advanced.




#17 DanTra2858

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 05:16

Follow this link for a picture of Moss's Lotus at Laguna Seca 1961

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1-/380347687050

#18 timbo

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 20:07

The Pegasus was up for sale a couple of years ago in the HSRCA's "The Oily Rag" club magazine.
It does not list Tasmania as a place it has raced at, and the round rollbar is different to the car in question.
I'm not sure if this helps answer the question about the mystery car.

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#19 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 22:00

Dan, I'm fully aware of the situation at the time...

About 1972 the CAMS regulated that sports cars had to have full cockpit opening width roll bars, with specified minimums in tube size and gauge, mountings etc.

But if you go back through the rules, you find all sorts of things. At one stage, IIRC, the rollover protection had to be not lower than an inch or so below the top of the driver's helmet.

One reason for my comment about this was that the 1980s pic depicted the car with a single bar many years after full width bars were required, yet the earlier pics showed a full width bar.