19 replies to this topic

[duby]

hello

just a short one.
why is the Eifelrennen first "born" as the German garnd-prix run in the same circut , and is more important...?

why both of them are in the championship ?

thnx
duby

[Tim Murray]

The first series of Eifel races (Eifelrennen) was held to open the new Nürburgring circuit in June 1927 in preparation for the German GP held a month later. Here's an earlier thread on the first Eifelrennen:

Eifelrennen 1927

The Eifel GP was never a round of the European Championship.

Edited by Tim Murray, 27 July 2011 - 06:26.

[Vitesse2]

Also worth pointing out that between 1930 and 1937 both the Eifelrennen and the Avusrennen were Formule Libre events. There was of course no International Formula in force between 1930 and 1933.

The Tripoli race also falls into this category.

As Tim has already pointed out, it wasn't a European Championship round, but it did form part of the German Road Racing Championship.

[taylov]

The first series of Eifel races (Eifelrennen) was held to open the new Nürburgring circuit in June 1927 in preparation for the German GP held a month later. Here's an earlier thread on the first Eifelrennen:

Eifelrennen 1927

The Eifel GP was never a round of the European Championship.

The Eifelrennen web site http://www.adac-eife...o...5&Itemid=72 reveals that the event pre-dates the 'Ring, having begun in 1922 as races on closed public roads around the Eifel region.

The 1930's series of Eifelrennen were much more of a festival of motorsport than a simple Grand Prix. As well as the race for "Formula" Grand Prix cars, there were also motorcycle and sportscar races over a weekend of events.

The series continued after WW2, first with Formula 2, then Formula Junior, back to Formula 2 and finally DTM races. An interesting period was during the 1960s when the Eifelrennen were run on the little-used 7.7 km Sudschleife. Here's the programme from the 1966 race won by Jochen Rindt in the Roy Winkelmann Racing Brabham BT18.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Tony

Edited by taylov, 27 July 2011 - 08:38.

[duby]

thnx for all the replies.

back to the 30's - was the race that important as a gran-prix ?
i checked in the 1936 race and the entry list includ all the big names of the sport back then.
if it was only a german championship, why alfa-romeo arrived and also many private drivers not only from Germany ?

duby

[D-Type]

At that time the emphasis was on individual races. Although championships were important they weren't the governing factor they are today.
Basically individual race organisers wanted to make a profit. Their main income came from paying spectators and their main outlay was paying the competitors. The Eifelrennen and Avusrennen were international events and foreign teams could enter. The organisers wanted the foreign stars present as it would attract more paying spectators so they paid good starting money. And if the foreign teams felt they would get enough starting money and prize money they would enter.

[uechtel]

The German Grand Prix was of 'Grande Epreuve' status, while the Eifelrennen (like Avus, Pescara, Tripolis etc.) was only an 'international event', so one category lower. Nevertheless with only four to six 'Grande Epreuves' per year the support from the factories for such races was nearly the same for this kind of events.

[duby]

this is why i love TNF.

couse all of details.

so was the EIFELRENNEN a special race ?

[Rob Semmeling]

The Eifelrennen, originally known as Eifel Rundfahrt (Eifel Tour), began in the early 1920s and quickly became one of the most significant race meetings in western-Germany. The event was organised by the ADAC and included races for automobiles and motorcycles. It was first held in July 1922, cancelled in 1923, and then held every year bar 1938 until the war intervened.

At first the races were held on a course around Nideggen, a picturesque town in the north-west part of the Eifel region complete with castle ruin. The circuit measured circa 33.2 km and ran via Nideggen - Berg - Wollersheim - Vlatten - Heimbach - Hasenfeld - Schmidt - Hetzingen - Brück - Nideggen. This scenic, mostly unpaved course comprised about 270 metres of elevation change and over eighty difficult bends, including several series of serpentines. Today the roads are in much better condition, of course, but the route makes for a wonderful scenic drive on a summer day (well, maybe not this summer...).

As of 1927, the Eifelrennen found a new home at the newly-built Nürburgring, where it was the ADAC's biggest annual meet - don't forget that the German Grand Prix was organised by the rivalling AvD. The event was held on a variety of circuit layouts: full course (1927), Südschleife (1928-1931) and Nordschleife (1932-1937, 1939).

The term 'Eifel GP' is plain wrong, by the way, as the literal translation is Eifel Race or Eifel Races, it never was a Grand Prix - except for the motorcycles in 1965 and 1968, but that's another story.

Edited by Rob Semmeling, 27 July 2011 - 16:37.

[Tim Murray]

The term 'Eifel GP' is plain wrong, by the way, as the literal translation is Eifel Race or Eifel Races, it never was a Grand Prix - except for the motorcycles in 1965 and 1968, but that's another story.

Many thanks for the detailed info, Rob. As you say, the event consisted of a series of races for cars and motorcycles. If the term 'Eifel GP' is wrong, what's the best way to refer to the main car race to distinguish it from all the other races?

Edited by Tim Murray, 27 July 2011 - 16:55.

[duby]

Rob thanks

was the Eifelrennen in the 30's draw the same attention, in Germany, as the GP?

what was the NSKK involvment in this race ?


duby

[Rob Semmeling]

Well, I think it's worth mentioning that the Eifelrennen had its ups and downs before 'making it big'.

In 1927, it attracted a great deal of attention as the inaugural meeting at the new Nürburgring. Mercedes was there with a factory team and about 80,000 people visited the event. But the next years were very different. The ADAC moved the race to the shorter Südschleife, and the entries were much weaker, 1929 probably being the low point as that year's event received extremely little press.

Things picked up again as of 1932, when the ADAC decided to use the Nordschleife. Whether or not this was a deliberate move is up for discussion - fact is the AvD had switched to that layout the year before. The arrival of the Silver Arrows did the rest. The figures below are from internal Nürburgring papers and give the official attendance at the Eifelrennen on race day:

1930: 25,763
1931: 21,187
1932: 80,135
1933: 80,424
1934: 136,021

Now compare these to the figures for the German Grand Prix (alas I only have them for two years):

1931: 85,710
1932: 102,481

Perhaps another factor was the complete take-over of German motorsport by the Nazis. My impression is that they were only interested in big races that could be used for propaganda purposes. Up to the early 1930s, the Nürburgring hosted several race meetings every year, yet as of 1935 only two remained, the Eifelrennen and German Grand Prix, and in 1938 there was but one race as the former was cancelled. At that time, the Eifelrennen was sanctioned by the Oberste Nationale Sportbehörde (ONS) and organised by the NSKK in cooperation with the DDAC.

As for Tim's question: in the race programmes the individual races do not have names but are simply referred to as 'Rennen I', 'Rennen II' etc, or by class name.

[Vitesse2]

Now compare these to the figures for the German Grand Prix (alas I only have them for two years):

1931: 85,710
1932: 102,481

Figures like 250000 and 300000 were quoted for the 1938 and 1939 GPs, although I suppose those are estimates. Presumably - providing you were prepared to hike through the woods - it was quite easy to avoid paying to get in, given the length of the circuit!

Duby: for an explanation of the Strassenmeisterschaft, see here and subsequent posts.

http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=1125235

[uechtel]

so was the EIFELRENNEN a special race ?

Aren´t all races special in some way?

Many thanks for the detailed info, Rob. As you say, the event consisted of a series of races for cars and motorcycles. If the term 'Eifel GP' is wrong, what's the best way to refer to the main car race to distinguish it from all the other races?

It was common for the German events to contain races for many categories and classes, with the race car race as the main event of the day. In this format the Eifel Race did not differ very much from the Grand Prix. I think perhaps a good comparison would be the Italian GP against the Monza GP. Both very important international events, but the one was the official 'national' Grand Prix and the other was not.

Rob thanks

was the Eifelrennen in the 30's draw the same attention, in Germany, as the GP?

what was the NSKK involvment in this race ?


duby

It was politics of the Nazi party to get every kind of organization under control. The expression was 'Gleichschaltung' (perhaps best translated as 'alignment'). The NSKK became sole organisator of all motorsport activities.

Perhaps another factor was the complete take-over of German motorsport by the Nazis. My impression is that they were only interested in big races that could be used for propaganda purposes. Up to the early 1930s, the Nürburgring hosted several race meetings every year, yet as of 1935 only two remained, the Eifelrennen and German Grand Prix, and in 1938 there was but one race as the former was cancelled. At that time, the Eifelrennen was sanctioned by the Oberste Nationale Sportbehörde (ONS) and organised by the NSKK in cooperation with the DDAC.

I agree very much with this. Before they had come to power there had been a colourful scene of 'amateur' events all over the country, from 'speed weeks' at spa resorts over races around the houses to hillcimbs. Until the mid thirties most of these avents had disappeared (perhaps partly also due because of the economic depression). And 'amateur' sports - which associates words like 'private' or even 'independent' - was probably quite contradictional to the total control the regime was aiming to reach.

On the other hand also the automobile concerns were certainly looking for adequate occasions, where they could perform more than only once per year in front of the home crowd. With the Silver Arrows present the Eifel and Avus Races automatically reached also high international awareness.

Figures like 250000 and 300000 were quoted for the 1938 and 1939 GPs, although I suppose those are estimates. Presumably - providing you were prepared to hike through the woods - it was quite easy to avoid paying to get in, given the length of the circuit!

Even for the Hockenheim race in 1948 they announced 300,000 spectators and similar numbers for the East German Sachsenring in the early fifties.

But of course part of the game may have been a little bit also the rule, that the the higher spectator numbers the better the propaganda. For example at last year´s catastrophic Love Parade the organizers had announced a million participants when later it turned out that never more than some 200,000 would have found enough space on the area.

[Vitesse2]

Molter actually says "over 300000" for the 1939 GP in "German Racing Cars and Drivers". But I agree, a large pinch of salt is probably in order.

[taylov]

Molter actually says "over 300000" for the 1939 GP in "German Racing Cars and Drivers". But I agree, a large pinch of salt is probably in order.

When one looks at the 1939 Grand Prix footage on "The Titans" (Bill Mason for Shell films) the crowd seems to be enormous all the way round the circuit -even out beyond the Karussell.

I can believe those claims.

Tony

[duby]

When one looks at the 1939 Grand Prix footage on "The Titans" (Bill Mason for Shell films) the crowd seems to be enormous all the way round the circuit -even out beyond the Karussell.

I can believe those claims.

Tony

thnx

where can i find this film ?


duby

[raceannouncer2003]

thnx

where can i find this film ?


duby

Is this the one?

http://www.youtube.c...439C38C1974A9B1

Vince H.

[Rob29]

Is this the one?

http://www.youtube.c...439C38C1974A9B1

Vince H.

Thats the one.I have it on VHS video since the 70s I think-3 tapes covering 1896-51.

[Allan Lupton]

Molter actually says "over 300000" for the 1939 GP in "German Racing Cars and Drivers". But I agree, a large pinch of salt is probably in order.

When one looks at the 1939 Grand Prix footage on "The Titans" (Bill Mason for Shell films) the crowd seems to be enormous all the way round the circuit -even out beyond the Karussell.

I can believe those claims.

Tony

As a very rough calculation, with 22.81 km. of track and an average width of a spectator of 2', 300,000 spectators would average 4 deep on both sides of the track.
Whilst the tribunes had many more than that and, as seen in the film, so had the good viewpoints, an average that high is quite hard to accept.
As was pointed out earlier, there is probably a large discrepancy between the number who paid (and were therefore recorded) and those who did not but would be included in unofficial estimates. But estimates is what they were.