25 replies to this topic

[thatguy0101]

http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item231337b649

Apparently, this car is being offered from the Petty museum. Is this Joe Leonard's 1968 Indy race car?

[RA Historian]

The car on E bay is purported to be 56/3. However, according to Andrew Ferguson's book, Team Lotus, The Indianapolis Years, 56/3 was Graham Hill's race car, then it was loaned to the Harrah Museum for many years, after which it was donated to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum, where I believe it remains today.

The car in question may be 56/4; that was the Art Pollard car, which was cannibalized for parts after the race. The monocoque was preserved and reassembled with running gear parts but without a real engine. Used as a show car, then on display by STP successor companies. As of 1996 retained by First Brands Corporation.

The Joe Leonard car was 56/1, which is retained to this day in Parnelli Jones' private collection.

Tom

[Rob Miller]

eBay mentions Clark, Hill, Spence and Stewart as the contracted drivers, yet fails to say who drove the actual car at Indy.

RA Historian mentions Pollard and Leonard.

Will "Hackie Stewart" sue eBay?

[Louism]

I am not the one who has the car for sale.
I am not the guy who is going to buy it.

But according to my "culture", I can't believe such a car can be sold on e-bay.
Do you agree ?

Edited by Louism, 16 August 2011 - 16:24.

[Pullman99]

I have always been fascinated by the story of the Lotus 56 and remember it featuring - in a Hethel testing piece - on "Tomorrow's World" back in 1968. The saga seems to have got a little bit complicated in recent years. Is there a definitive list of cars builkt / surviving / whereabouts, etc.?

What is the background to the restoration of the car that appeared at this years FOS, for instance? Also, if Richard Petty acquired "56/3" (supposedly directly from the company) for his museum, where does 56/4 (or a show-car version of it) fit in to all of this?

Would love to see one of these cars permanently back in the UK. May I suggest that the 1960s (and early '70s if you include the Chapparal 2J) certainly produced a greater variety of racing machinery than at any other time in the sport's history.

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

They claim the car to be "unrestored". ???

[Allan Lupton]

Interesting that someone whose last 15 ebay items have been Singer sewing machines around the $100 mark should be selling this with a starting price of 1.5 megabucks!

[Gary C]

'Would love to see one of these cars permanently back in the UK.'
er..........don't Classic Team Lotus still have Emerson's car from the 71 Italian Grand prix, in gold and black colours ???

[f1steveuk]

Surely that's a 56B Gary, with a slightly more detuned STN 6/76 turbine to meet the 3.0 litre equivilence? Or am I talking rubbish?

Edited by f1steveuk, 16 August 2011 - 18:30.

[Giraffe]

'Would love to see one of these cars permanently back in the UK.'
er..........don't Classic Team Lotus still have Emerson's car from the 71 Italian Grand prix, in gold and black colours ???

Goodwood FOS 2010


By giraffe138 at 2010-07-04

By giraffe138 at 2010-07-04

Edited by Giraffe, 16 August 2011 - 18:33.

[Pullman99]

er..........don't Classic Team Lotus still have Emerson's car from the 71 Italian Grand prix, in gold and black colours ???

56B indeed chaps (and one that I saw race several times in period including whilst marshalling at Clearways for the Race of Champions - Emerson's gas turbine debut - in 1971), but I DID mean a 56. They just looked so "clean" in STP red. Mentioning which, Lotus 38/4 at the FOS has been in its 1965 Indy 500 Bobby Johns livery for some years but surely its greatest moment was with Jim Clark in 1966 - second to Graham Hill's Lola but could have been a back to back victory.

Back to 56/3. Must be one of the most intriguing ebay motorsport items ever.

[Obster]

I would love to see a modern Daytona Prototype or LMP2 car with an engine like this!

[D-Type]

I would love to see a modern Daytona Prototype or LMP2 car with an engine like this!

A modern Howmett?

[T54]

Interestingly, I have been at work for the past few months trying to figure out which Lotus is a real Lotus and which are copies made from parts or reproduced by either the guys at Parnelli Jones or the guys at Andy's own shop.
Turns out that Rick Salvino, the son of the STP exec, has been telling me for many months that Richard Petty had this car for many years, that it had been traded to him by Andy, and that indeed it is the only "pure" 56 left out there. I have no idea why they would be selling that car on E-Pay, sounds very bizarre, but hey, what's a buck and a half nowadays.

[RA Historian]

A modern Howmett?

Howmet, a/k/a McKee Mk IX.

[scags]

AKA turbine sports/ prototype.

[lanciaman]

I have no idea why they would be selling that car on E-Pay, sounds very bizarre, but hey, what's a buck and a half nowadays.

eBay inclusions are sometimes there to flush the bushes without cost or commitment. Stir up a little interest, discover if provenance is widely known, gauge the outrage if the car is misrepresented, etc. It's a cheap finger-to-the-wind.

[Peter Morley]

eBay inclusions are sometimes there to flush the bushes without cost or commitment. Stir up a little interest, discover if provenance is widely known, gauge the outrage if the car is misrepresented, etc. It's a cheap finger-to-the-wind.

Given the somewhat optimistic opening price that sounds like what they are trying to do.

[Pullman99]

Stir up a little interest, discover if provenance is widely known, gauge the outrage if the car is misrepresented, etc. It's a cheap finger-to-the-wind.

Well. They've got about 6 hours to find out!

[hamsterace]

Given the somewhat optimistic opening price that sounds like what they are trying to do.

Yes, sounds a bit optimistic to me as well. Hugely interesting from a technical and historical point of view, but what do you actuallydo with it? If (and it's a big if) you can run it, what would it be eligible for? Besides, I assume it's not massively keen on either slowing down, or going around tight corners - which rather precludes it from doing anything certainly in a European context.

[jj2728]

Yes, sounds a bit optimistic to me as well. Hugely interesting from a technical and historical point of view, but what do you actuallydo with it? If (and it's a big if) you can run it, what would it be eligible for? Besides, I assume it's not massively keen on either slowing down, or going around tight corners - which rather precludes it from doing anything certainly in a European context.

If you've got the 1.5 mil to buy then I'm sure doing something with it has already been thought out.....

[BRG]

No bids. So that didn't tell them much, other than that no-one on EBay has $1.5m to spend on a car with unclear provenance.

[Peter Morley]

Yes, sounds a bit optimistic to me as well. Hugely interesting from a technical and historical point of view, but what do you actuallydo with it? If (and it's a big if) you can run it, what would it be eligible for? Besides, I assume it's not massively keen on either slowing down, or going around tight corners - which rather precludes it from doing anything certainly in a European context.

Yep, you could buy pretty much any Lotus F1 car for that kind of money and they are all eligible for something and able to slow down and go round corners - mind you this 56 is probably incapable of speeding up let alone needing to slow down or go round corners, presumably it still has an engine but what are the chances that it runs?

I saw what I think was a 64 in the UK not so long ago, the "proud" owner called it a piece of junk and I'm sure would be happy to see the back of it for a fraction of this price!

[arttidesco]

I wonder if this is an 'arbitrage' stunt ?

[rl1856]

eBay inclusions are sometimes there to flush the bushes without cost or commitment. Stir up a little interest, discover if provenance is widely known, gauge the outrage if the car is misrepresented, etc. It's a cheap finger-to-the-wind.

Also a way for interested parties to directly contact the owner or their representative to negotiate a deal. An Ebay listing would probably generate more publicity than an auction entry and certainly avoid the 10-20% auction house commission. If the provenance of this chassis can be proven, most of the major auto auction houses would love to feature this 56 as the centerpiece of a future program...in exchange for their hefty fee.

I doubt this car will sell on Ebay now or in the future, but I am very confident that a sale will take place based upon the Ebay listing.

It other high dollar collectible areas, it is not uncommon to use an Ebay listing for publicity, then negotiate the sale offline.

Best,

Ross

[cheapracer]

$1.5 million USD?

If you don't have to pay for it until next year that will equate to about £78.