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FIA calls for 2013 Formula E competitors [merged]


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#1 24gerrard

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 09:04

Jean Todt, President of the FIA has confirmed that there will be electric formula' developed including Electric F1 cars.
It seems that my suggestions to the FIA and the official paper I sent them has helped to confirm the direction international motor racing will take in the future.
Perhaps now those reading these forums will understand what I have been on about.

I contacted Martin Whitmarsh last year to suggest an electric formula to support conventional F1 races. I believe this is now being discused by the official bodies involved in some detail. The formulec EV1 car built by Mercedese is one possibility for this although there are other options.
I have always believed that F1, or a replacement series would be all electric and an increasing number of important people in F1 and motorsport generaly,
(including of course now Jean Todt) are coming to this conclusion.
F1 will progress IMO into the new 2013 regulations and onwards with an increasing use of energy recovery systems and electric traction. How long it will be able to hold onto internal combustion and liquid fuels is the big question.
Those who run F1 will go for the best financial returns, even if some of them continue to be 'motor heads'. This is likely to generate a split at some stage. although probably only after 2014. This depends on the development speed of road electric traction. It may be fast enough to displace current F1 with an electric formula sooner than many might think possible.



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#2 F.M.

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 20:02

On April 5th, Jean Todt, expressed his interest in an electrified Formula One racing series. The FIA is currently calling for expression of interest from automakers and racing organizations.

- Teams have until October 14th to respond and will be required to sign a three-year contract.
- The racing series, if launched, will be called Formula E.
- Formula E's inaugural race is tentatively scheduled for sometime in 2013.
- Formula E racers will likely battle for electric supremacy in major cities around the world.
- Vehicles are to be of the open-wheel design and must be 100-percent electric.
- Minimum vehicle weight will be 780 kilograms (1,720 pounds), driver included.

How will these electric racers manage to rip around the track with nothing but electrons? The FIA says the Formula E series will turn what could be a crippling disadvantage into a blessing by limiting individual races to 15 minutes. What this means is that the electric vehicle's limited range won't determine the outcome of the race. And as for the blessing part of the equation, the FIA says it will fill the time slots between each 15-minute race with "activities" and "demonstrations." We assume there will be some sort of DC direct charging going on while the cars suck down a bit of juice.

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Edited by F.M., 30 August 2011 - 20:03.


#3 senna da silva

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 21:43

Interesting, but I'll take a wait and see who signs up. I'm curious if they'll be allowed to supercapacitors for starts. I'd rather see this wholesale formula than the pathetic greening of F1.

#4 joshb

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 21:59

Interesting, but I'll take a wait and see who signs up. I'm curious if they'll be allowed to supercapacitors for starts. I'd rather see this wholesale formula than the pathetic greening of F1.


Same here. Its an interesting idea and i hope they can get some decent backing for it and if it goes fully green, hopefully its a licence to make F1 what it means for me- the best drivers in the best teams/cars on the best tracks
no green technology, no stupid green rules and no carbon footprint rubbish which limits parts.


#5 DrProzac

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 22:24

Well said joshb. But sadly it's unlikely it will affect F1 in that way.

From technical point of view it will be interesting. Unfortunately they'll probably over-regualte it, just like F1. Maybe the first season will see enough loopholes and team/manufacturer interest.

But 15 minute races? Way too short I'm afraid.

Edited by DrProzac, 30 August 2011 - 22:26.


#6 pingu666

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 22:28

open wheel part is sucky too, would be much better to have closed wheels for less drag

#7 Andrew Hope

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 22:31

I can't wait for this. You know, I love F1 and all, but I've always wished the races were an hour and a half shorter and the engines made no noise. This series sounds perfect for me.

#8 ashnathan

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 22:33

I hope if this goes ahead it will deter the FIA from trying to stuff with F1 even more. 15 minute races? That's Formula Ford short, too short, if they want to be serious about it, they'd haveto be at the very least 30minute races.

#9 undersquare

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 22:34

I can't wait for this. You know, I love F1 and all, but I've always wished the races were an hour and a half shorter and the engines made no noise. This series sounds perfect for me.

:lol:

#10 undersquare

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 22:35

The silence thing is an issue, surely.

#11 pingu666

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 01:17

electric engines do make a noise, but just not as much as normal racecars

#12 Myrvold

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 02:01

Far from as much.
As this lap record(?) for electrical cars around the green hell demonstrates

#13 primer

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 02:32

The FIA says the Formula E series will turn what could be a crippling disadvantage into a blessing by limiting individual races to 15 minutes.


ROFL!



#14 rolf123

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 04:16

FiA is looking for an "agent", what does this mean? Who is the equivalent "agent" in F1? Bernie?

#15 pingu666

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 04:57

i guess
or stefan ratel in gt racing

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

i like that style of ev car alot

#16 Kraken

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 05:17

Same here. Its an interesting idea and i hope they can get some decent backing for it and if it goes fully green, hopefully its a licence to make F1 what it means for me- the best drivers in the best teams/cars on the best tracks
no green technology, no stupid green rules and no carbon footprint rubbish which limits parts.

About the only thing you can say about F1 is that it has (and even this is debatable) the best teams. It certainly doesn't have a monopoly on the best drivers, just the ones that were in the right place at the right time.

The cars can only ever be the best to the set of rules they are running to and F1 has always had rules. An F1 car would be rubbish at the Le Mans 24hr but that doesn't mean either car is better than the other.

I think it's good to see some innovation on the green racing front. It's a great way to push the boundaries of the technology.

#17 pingu666

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 05:39

you do get some pretty cool and crazy ideas and innovations too in electric racing.

actully a f1 car could do endurance events now, with the multi race engines and gearboxes they use now. the drivetrain would be good enough for a 6hour race probably, issues would be brakes, they would have to swap to lmp type, otherwise they would be outta brakes in 3 hours?. and then any fluid consumption issues, like oil tank being big enough

driver changes would take much long too i guess

F1 has the most well funded/biggest personnel teams

Edited by pingu666, 31 August 2011 - 05:41.


#18 One

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:49

FiA is looking for an "agent", what does this mean? Who is the equivalent "agent" in F1? Bernie?


Some say that it is Christian Horner. (for Formula One management I mean...)

BTW about the time, but if it get going is another thing. Could be an excuse for EEC etc to keep on burning gazzes.

#19 BRK

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 09:23

Ridiculous. Nobody cares and no one's going to watch anyway, just a useless waste of time and energy. But I like the perspective that this series will act as playground for all the captain planets out there and they'll hopefully leave F1 alone.

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#20 Nustang70

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 10:07

I like the idea. It's a shame the races will only be 15 minutes though. F1 is obsessed with watching pitstops--imagine the drama and excitement of getting to watch 10 minute pitstops in Formula E.

#21 Rob

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 10:13

Hopefully it will push development of the technologies involved to the point where they can make an electric road car with a decent range, a quick charge and good performance.

#22 SimMaker

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 10:14

Let them use Nuclear reactors....... :) That would spice things up a bit.

#23 Owen

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 10:18

I'm all set...


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#24 jonnoj

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 10:20

There's race series for electric cars already. They even have a prototype class

http://www.evcup.com/cars/prototype-ev



#25 rolf123

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 12:46

Check out the "Kleenspeed" going round Laguna Seca. Direct drive i.e. single gear:



The sound compared to petrol engine is bizarre but these things are clearly quite fast already.

Edited by rolf123, 31 August 2011 - 12:47.


#26 TURU

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 12:53

Far from as much.
As this lap record(?) for electrical cars around the green hell demonstrates


It sounds great from the onboard to me. Noise of a racing tram blended with sound of passing air and working tires. :love:

#27 highdownforce

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 13:24

ROFL!

What is the point if the races are limited to 15min?
This way the cars will carry 15min capable batteries and will just swap them at the end of the individual races.
Such a thing is past technology already.

I'm disappointed with that.

Edited by highdownforce, 31 August 2011 - 13:28.


#28 engel

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 13:53

Welcome to the inaugural Formula E Spa Francochamps Grand Prix of 2013.
This will be a 3 lap race ...

#29 primer

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 14:10

What is the point if the races are limited to 15min?

Imagine a 100m sprint which the athletes must run while wearing stilettos, that's Formula E for you. On one level it could be considered some sort of achievement, on other level it is so utterly pointless since there are much quicker way of locomoting 100m without hampering yourself intentionally. Their stupidity stares them right in the face, yet people at FIA are convinced electric cars are the future and need this kind of promotion.

#30 Owen

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 14:19

Is racing electric cars safe (for both drivers and marshals)?

#31 highdownforce

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 14:20

Imagine a 100m sprint which the athletes must run while wearing stilettos, that's Formula E for you. On one level it could be considered some sort of achievement, on other level it is so utterly pointless since there are much quicker way of locomoting 100m without hampering yourself intentionally. Their stupidity stares them right in the face, yet people at FIA are convinced electric cars are the future and need this kind of promotion.

This so stupid that it's almost like they are doing their best to discredit electric cars.

#32 rolf123

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 16:28

I'm surprised the level of hostility against electric.

I'm the first to be skeptical of climate change and green agendas but the fact is, we cannot be dependent on oil forever.

If you watch that 'Ring lap, you might change your mind on electric, it could bring up all sorts of interesting things. The direct drive is totally different to the geared technology and associated power bands we are used to. This technology is in its infancy but it could be great one day.

And as much as I like petrol engines, you realise by watching that lap that the noise of a petrol engine drowns out your senses. In electric, you get a much greater sense of all around you, the sound of the tyres, the wind, your general environment.

Yes, you don't get the raw power of igniting petrol. But electric may not be so benign forever.

A flagship racing series acting as a proving ground and maybe even leaving F1 alone. I don't see what's wrong with that.

#33 rolf123

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 16:30

Is racing electric cars safe (for both drivers and marshals)?


I don't see why not. People talk about the sound but, for one, half of the noise an approaching aircraft makes comes not from the engines but the air hitting it and secondly, even if they were too quiet I imagine some kind of baffle or similar could be mandated to amplify the existing noise.

#34 muramasa

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 16:49


Whether it will succeed or not, I'm not sure, but I think it's interesting and has some possibility.


This Eliica e-car looks race ready.





besides, this is more than 7 years ago, and only university project.



#35 highdownforce

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 17:05

A flagship racing series acting as a proving ground and maybe even leaving F1 alone. I don't see what's wrong with that.

With a 15 minutes races this will not be a flagship series.
In order to really get attention top this tech, such a series should have a level of performance above F3 closing to WSR and have 30min minimum for each round.
Hell, if a I convert a Tesla Roadster I might have a chance of scoring some points.

Edited by highdownforce, 31 August 2011 - 17:05.


#36 rolf123

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 17:23

With a 15 minutes races this will not be a flagship series.
In order to really get attention top this tech, such a series should have a level of performance above F3 closing to WSR and have 30min minimum for each round.
Hell, if a I convert a Tesla Roadster I might have a chance of scoring some points.


It will be FiA sanctioned so that makes it a flagship series. I imagine it will travel with a major series too. Probably not F1 to start with but some other major series.

#37 highdownforce

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 17:39

It will be FiA sanctioned so that makes it a flagship series.

Sorry, but that's not enough, for me at least.
A Nissan Leaf Nismo RC series even if sanctioned by FIA would be a flagship series, and I'm talking among the helm of electric powered cars.
Compare it to TT Zero Race laps, those single laps take about 22-25 minutes with average speeds close to 100mph (160kph).
FIA's goal should have aimed further than this published spec.

I imagine it will travel with a major series too. Probably not F1 to start with but some other major series.

For some reason, because of the quoted part below, I believe this is not the case.

- Formula E racers will likely battle for electric supremacy in major cities around the world.


Rather, I expect something among the lines of Red Bull Air Race events.

#38 William Hunt

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 22:33

who would want to race in a series with races of just 15 minutes?

#39 One

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 23:00

who would want to race in a series with races of just 15 minutes?

Mate of mine told me that DOME tested Tesla around Fuji.
Tesla almost burned after just a half lap full throttle run. 15 min racing should be a dream for an Ecar.

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#40 Jejking

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 23:10

So? They have yet 1.5 years to improve on cooling, pace, etcetera. Give it time, it will likely be an interesting serie to follow.

#41 SpaMaster

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 00:08

They should allow hydrogen fuel cell electric cars.

#42 skyfolker

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 03:08

15 minutes races?Well,Luca dM already complained about races being too long.

#43 One

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 07:46

The amount of money that will be charged in will be phenomenal, and the money as a whole is pretty much restricted, therefore we will see some serious battels to get Vodafone on its back to get all the companies who wants to express their 'innovation' via motoring.

#44 F.M.

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 08:49

A first car!

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http://www.youtube.c...layer_embedded#!

#45 Owen

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 08:52

Looks like someone inflated an F3 car. :D

#46 Rob

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:35

Looks like someone inflated an F3 car. :D


Funny you should say that because the press release says it's been designed to match the performance of an F3 car.

#47 pingu666

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:36

yes it does :/

#48 Owen

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:37

Funny you should say that because the press release says it's been designed to match the performance of an F3 car.

Interesting. Sure is a strange looking beast. Seems the driver sits higher up a bit.

#49 Rob

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:42

Interesting. Sure is a strange looking beast. Seems the driver sits higher up a bit.


Apparently the driver sits above the batteries, which gives it the raised appearance.

#50 rolf123

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:45

Apparently the driver sits above the batteries, which gives it the raised appearance.


I hope he's still sitting and not lying down. I can't stand this lying down crap they have in F1 these days. I reckon the reduced visibility of F1 has led to worse racing and maybe even less attempts to overtake unless your name is Hamilton/Kobayashi.