Jump to content


Photo

Giving real racing a chance


  • Please log in to reply
57 replies to this topic

#1 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 31 August 2011 - 11:40

hi folks, just wanted to give an update of this new series and a link to the website.

http://continentalch....com/index.html

there is a video on now that is very good in detailing what the series is about and it seems to really have the wheels turning well.

it has been confirmed there will be no 500 series but they are talking about a lot of things like 4 cyl 250s etc.

very intersting bits i found which really brought it home for me that these guys feel exactly like we do about the current gp championships can be found on this video between 48 mins and 55 mins and also 1hour 52 onwards.

ill keep putting up as much as i find out but apparently they are talking to salzburgring and rijeka as circuits to take part in the series.

hopefully it will be a great but im worried if it takes off will rossi etc and their band of followers join in?

Advertisement

#2 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 02 September 2011 - 11:00

dont know if any of you have seen any of this yet but i thought i would watch it again to keep up, the quote that really stands out is "not everyone wants to see a honda 600, if i wanted to see one i could stand on my street corner"

plus it seems whenever honda are mentioned its met with smirks and humor :up:

#3 exclubracer

exclubracer
  • Member

  • 1,680 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 02 September 2011 - 11:49

the quote that really stands out is "not everyone wants to see a honda 600, if i wanted to see one i could stand on my street corner"

class.

#4 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 03 October 2011 - 22:41

new engine being built by DMF for the 50cc continental championships

http://projectdmf.we....com/index.html

also looks like they have bagged more tracks if you check out the main site, gives me an excuse to go abroad again !!!

#5 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 03 October 2011 - 22:51

magazine article

Unlike past initiatives such as the World Series at the end of the 70 promoted by Kenny Roberts, or the championship WERA (born as an alternative AMA), this time the trigger is the safety of drivers or other such considerations. In contrast, the regulation is too restrictive. The direction taken by the world's speed, which has accepted the entry of the series as the engines derived CBR600RR Moto2, and opened the MotoGP series for the derivation of the engine, has led some engineers and pilots of the first floor of the past to create a championship alternativo.Fra supporters of this initiative are in fact the technical world of great weight, like Jan Thiel and Joerg Moeller, and riders like Loris Reggiani, which incidentally has never made any secret to abhor the presence of engines in the series championship. The idea dell'ICRT (Intercontinental Championship Race Tech) is open to technologies truly innovative, with a regulation free as possible. It will be accepted technical solutions such as direct injection, fractionation and the free use of biofuels. There is talk of prototype two-stroke 125cc (initial categories will be 50, 125 and 250) capable of reaching 270km/h.Al

#6 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 03 October 2011 - 22:57

In principle, and although there is nothing closed, it will convene three categories, 50cc, 125cc and 250cc. The organizers want to base their championship where Dorna precisely want to remove it: the technical diversity, so that the regulation, to be defined, it will be as open as possible: internal combustion engines, any, any cycle any fuel.

Of course, you will release the number of cylinders and gears in the gearbox but whether there will be a minimum weight categories. This means absolute freedom to present engines 2T, 4T, turbo, Wankel, diesel ... what comes to mind. And with that, you will input all types of fuel in the competition, although the organization is looking for ways to "reward" the use of alternative biofuels and low level of contamination.

In terms of safety regulations will be according to the FIM defined for the other races velocidad.Como first step, the organization convened a stakeholders meeting in Rome last April 2. Of course, and how could it be otherwise, the Club2T was there represented. The meeting was opened ICRT director, Franco Barazzutti and exposed aspects of the new championship between himself, Luigi Favarato (vice president of the EMU) and Gabrielle Gnani, ex-pilot of 80cc world championships and still active driver in the Alpen-Adria, where a 125 GP runs that he makes.

Joerg Moeller and Jan Thiel spoke and both coaches supported the idea and set out to where it could come up with a current unrestricted technical criteria: According to Moeller, with a 4 cylinder 250cc 2T with compressors benefits exceed the current MotoGP. Among the guests stood Wittevven Jan, the famous ex-Aprilia Technical

#7 picblanc

picblanc
  • Member

  • 12,531 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 04 October 2011 - 09:18

Sounds great! but will not work unless it is televised & sadly cant see that happening not on quality TV anyway?
To the average Joe public these bikes mean nothing to them, they want road based stuff, thats all they know, its only us 'older' guys that look back on these classes with any kind of interest. Sorry. :well:

#8 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 20 October 2011 - 12:17

hi, in an effort to get this new info out of the CCRT i refer you to thier website in my first post from 11pm uk time onward on friday 21/10/11 as they are promoting their new video about the series.

couple of other thing which are of interest is the new tech rules on cylinder displacement for the rotary engines as below

*the cubic capacity for rotary engine is a volume summation for each complete turn of crankshaft

full details of the machine you wish to enter must be given thoroughly as it seems they will not accept it if it does not confirm to the idea "prottype" or in other wards no modded road bikes :clap:

#9 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 20 October 2011 - 12:29

couple of other points

no traction control permitted
no electronic throttle systems
no road bike frame, swingarm or bodywork allowed
superchargers allowed on all forms of engines

weight limits

50cc-115kg
125-133kg
250-152kg
these are all motorcycle and rider

the bike on its own are

50-55kg
125-73kg
250-92kg

there will be a fuel consumption limit but this is going to be reveiwed, with 14 tyres being allowed at each meeting per machine.

#10 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 20 October 2011 - 12:35

you beauty, they are going back to the old no. plate systems like the white on green plates for the 250s, at last we will be able to identify a rider again, noise limits to be 98.5 DB.

#11 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 20 October 2011 - 12:50

an extract from the rome meeting.

After the stop from the World Championship of
the 250 cc. 2 stroke class in the 2010,
substituted by the Moto 2 class, the same fate
will be given to the 125 cc. class, which from
next year will be substituted, as it has been
already announced by Dorna and FIM, by a
moto 250 cc. 4 stroke called Moto 3.
This revolution, which declares the end of 2
stroke motorcycles, created some uneasiness
among fans of this sport, who did not appreciate
the disappearance of categories widely regarded
as “classics”.


#12 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 21 October 2011 - 22:55

well the videos out folks, and what a beautiful thing it is, for 2 and 4 stroke guys words cannot describe, lets get behind these guys and bring real racing back!!!

#13 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 21 October 2011 - 22:57

http://continentalch....com/index.html

#14 picblanc

picblanc
  • Member

  • 12,531 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:09

Has the "series" got the backing of the Motorcycling governing body? (name escapes me) as they have to sanction the circuits, and as it is in direct "opposition" to MotoGP/WSB now owned by the same company, I sadly have real doubts that it will be torpedoed by behind the scenes political shenanigans if it is going to be the "third/Alternative" Championship. The cake is only so big & the big fat boys @ MotoGP/WSB are not going to want to share it?
Just my opinion though folks as I REALLY REALLY want to see it happen.

#15 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:39

i know the emu (european motorcycle union) are behind it, they are certainly billing it as direct competition for moto gp and i have been hearing flamminis name linked aswell so i believe the emu can homologate circuits in europe and it may be flammini will promote/fund the events and with his portfolio it might get the tv we hope for aswell. :)

#16 Russell Burrows

Russell Burrows
  • Member

  • 6,278 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:20

Without FIM, manufacturer and mass media support, won’t the ultimate outcome be some home constructed strokers trotting around Darley Moor at a 'British GP'.




#17 Rennmax

Rennmax
  • Member

  • 1,979 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 14:43

Without FIM, manufacturer and mass media support, won’t the ultimate outcome be some home constructed strokers trotting around Darley Moor at a 'British GP'.


Here is one of those home constructors, who shows interest in this series, al least he produced some sketches up to now......

http://projectdmf.we....com/index.html

#18 GD66

GD66
  • Member

  • 2,196 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 23 October 2011 - 08:35

Paul Butler, FIM Race Director, is retiring at the end of this season. Interviewed by Steve Parrish at the Malaysian GP today about what he might be doing in retirement, he was very keen to reveal that he'll be very involved in the introduction of a two-stroke race series.

#19 fil2.8

fil2.8
  • Member

  • 19,496 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 23 October 2011 - 08:48

Paul Butler, FIM Race Director, is retiring at the end of this season. Interviewed by Steve Parrish at the Malaysian GP today about what he might be doing in retirement, he was very keen to reveal that he'll be very involved in the introduction of a two-stroke race series.



Good man :up: :clap: :clap: :love:


Advertisement

#20 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 26 October 2011 - 13:59

Without FIM, manufacturer and mass media support, won’t the ultimate outcome be some home constructed strokers trotting around Darley Moor at a 'British GP'.


hi russell, please dont forget this isnt open to only 2 strokes and there have been reports of very high perfomance 4 strokes being built but we have not had any concrete reports on them yet so are clearly being developed - the way it should be.

im sure with the people involved we will see ktm return in this class and i think it will really take a few years to find its feet, i know they have had to change the name of the series a few times as some people at the top [i dont know who] complained about it and also this may be why they arent going after the top tracks.

its clear they arent playing with this and mabye this is the series mr butler is really meaning. :)

#21 picblanc

picblanc
  • Member

  • 12,531 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 26 October 2011 - 16:39

Lets hope so! :up:

#22 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 30 November 2011 - 13:18

hi folks some more news from the continental championship race tech series.

a statement from jan thiel

The world championship has reached a frightening level of degradation, Dorna has distorted the human and technical content of modern motorcycling, something must be done to restore dignity to the sport and have technical work in its totality.

Further stagnation in technology have given rise to all the same bike without much creativity and research to come up with the absurd change to the 4t motorcycle brand, this is no longer the world championship but the championship of some individual.

Errors are contained within the regulations probably due to lack of knowledge of the subject including the displacement of the motorcycle, this decision as well as a stupid sectoralism technical performance will result in ridiculous resources that could categories minor importance.

The new [crt] technical regulations of this new idea with a strong footprint is very important for the future of racing, it is now possible to run non-polluting, using alternative fuels such as alcohol, which can give maximum security to clean, low cost, and even more performance. With this decision, I want to emphasize that it is possible to do something completely new to running clean.
The new rules of this championship will correct the imbalances of Technology, unnatural rainbow for a competition.

The world championship has always been the ultimate expression of technology on two wheels, and road vehicles, today is exactly the opposite, with this new series you want to take back what was left 30 years ago.

Even in terms of drivers, riders from this season will be born of the highest professionalism, and high human content.

The scenarios will be very interesting technology, bringing performance to the 125 due to the passage of fuel and modern technology and free, for example it can be expected to have engines of 60 hp at speeds of 260 mph, this seems like a good reason to support the initiative.
From this championship could come out the engine of the future.
Even Age 'maximum and minimum age of the riders Dorna makes mistakes, if you know a little' motorcycling history is to remember that historically there have been drivers who have raced up to old age in a single category with excellent results and switching to higher displacements considered it right to go back, these people were specialists who have refined the technique.

Everyone must do what feels right and comfortable regardless of age, this is not only sports competition.

Finally I would like to emphasize that today's environment of racing has become very aggressive and with poor ethics and humanity, an example of inequality and exclusion is the division most of the pits because the 125 and 250 must be divided and relegated to the back or outside the park?

Once there were no differences between small and large displacements, the worst and the best living together in a peaceful and friendly, dare I say a big family, with our league will try to recreate this by sending a different message.
Cost also will benefit them, making a conservative estimate could halve.
To run and maintain the races do not need the mega hospitality, most of the time empty and at least 15 people in the service do not know what.

This championship could glimpse the possibility of having a second golden age of motorcycling.
Jan Thiel



#23 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 30 November 2011 - 13:25

1st of december will be published more information and the circuits already agreed. :)

Edited by rd500, 30 November 2011 - 13:26.


#24 Robin127

Robin127
  • Member

  • 381 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 14 December 2011 - 02:58

This looks like the place to post this, on the surface sounds interesting, especially the blurb in the top left.

http://www.rscycles.com/400cc+.htm

Suter's bike

http://www.suterraci...n/suter500.html

#25 picblanc

picblanc
  • Member

  • 12,531 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:42

Dorna/MotoGP must be cacking themselves, hope this comes off & shakes up the top level of the sport, & you never know they might start calling it Grand Prix racing again, getting rid of that hideous Moto monika....now there's a series Moto Monika! :wave:

#26 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:07

i really hope its all ok, they say they will cancel it by the end of january if there is not enough entries. first round will be 8/4/12 at the A1 ring in austria. heres more info

by the way that suter 500 looks like an animal :eek:

INSCRIPTION REQUEST FORM
The undersigned requests the inscription for the 2012 CCRT CUP in the class :
prototype 50 class prototype 125 class prototype 250 class

The submission of this application involves to comply with the UEM Sporting Regulations, with the CCRT Technical Regulations and with all the decisions issued during the season by the UEM-CCRT control commission.

Such inscription allows to participate to the complete championship (eastern Europe - western Europe and eventually final).

Continental Championship Race Tech. Cup
eastern Europe rounds
Most
Brno
A1 Red bull ring
Sdlovakiaring
Rijeka

western europe rounds
brands hatch
le mans
Assen
*Oschersleben

Final round for championship

Albacete

Edited by rd500, 14 December 2011 - 10:16.


#27 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 22 December 2011 - 10:20

hey folks, latest article about the championship for you to have a look at,bit of reading in this one guys, enjoy :)

Continental Championship Race Tech was founded and is the new motorcycling championship which will start from April 2012: a breath of fresh air with new technological inputs for riders, technicians and enthusiasts.

Free from constraints, without compromising performance and costs of participation, designers can now develop technology and compare each other on the race track - the way it was and should be: it is permissible every type of motor: 2 and 4 stroke, turbocharged, Wankel, diesel, hydrogen, LPG, oil rapeseed, ethanol, methanol ...

At times like now when we must take the initiative, take action when things take an unexpected turn or a wrong way, stand up and say: "Gentlemen, this is not, we must do something."

As we have repeatedly argued, the MotoGP championship-CRT, a victim of itself to unsustainable costs and management unwatchable, has gradually lost appeal and technical performance of the curbs, with these new bikes CRT, a hybrid between a Superbike and MotoGP you are trying to fill a void, both in front of the TV or grid. The premises on the show, for now, are not good, but the grid has already been fleshed out up to 22 starters, and this was the primary goal of Ezpeleta. On the technical front, we lost sight of the aspect of technological development, frozen and sacrificed on the altar of cost-pretentious.

The MotoGP World Championship has been reduced to a small gilded age, with a scarecrow hospitality umbrella girl.
What's left?

Someone is not watching, someone is moved to save their own skin and to lay the seeds on the ground, despite the global economic and quality of the show (someone said that the crisis does not exist , but there are only new opportunities).

Intelligence and a passion was born so the CCRT was born: Continental Championship Race Tech, a league that has the forefathers Franco Barazzutti, creator of this initiative and organizer of the championship, with the collaboration of the EMU OORDINATION Alpe Adria, as regards the technical committee and regulations Dolph van der Woude, Joerg Moeller, Jan Tiel, Mike Austin and Gabriele Gnani.

There are also external supporters of the exception, as Loris Reggiani, Geoff Goddard, Eric Saul.

We had a beautiful and interesting chat with Franco Barazzutti, creator and organizer of the CCRT:

It all started a year and a half ago, driven also by the world championship event for the introduction of the Moto2 class, the CCRT is born from the desire to propose a league where they could compete with men and means, without the costs to represent a problem, new technologies are being stifled by short-sightedness and an embarrassing run-up to savings on the number of pistons and minutes during which the engines can run (they're still racing motorcycle, right?).

Who said that a four-stroke engine must be used and must be done in that motion or a certain technique rather than another? What is a technology compared to another? And the paddock? It 'still inhabited only by robots in Hospitality which remain empty for 90% of the time for which they paid a lot of money.

This is the spirit with which we have acted.
First of all, reach for your wallet: cost? 6,500 euros for registration (with no further additions except VAT) and participation in the championship, which starts in April and that will take place throughout Europe, not forgetting even those countries where there is a culture of great motoring history and thickness: Adria Pannonia, Slovakiaring, Brno, Hungaroring, Most, Poznan, Rijk, Redbull A1 Ring track, Brands Hatch, Mallory Park, Le Mans, Le Dernon, Navarre Albacete, Assen.

In addition to being open to small builders, there will also be medium-sized manufacturers engaged in the championship, companies and engineering research and development as Orbital, Bombardier (E-TEC Rotax), Graz University of Technology, Oxford University, Queen's Engineering etc...

Thanks to the wide media coverage (the championship has attracted the interest of Rai and Eurosport) and other national broadcasters will be able to find sponsorship to promote, in addition to their team, even the same league: Hanspree, Orbital, fuel suppliers, or normal alternative oils. As for the budget needed to contain the run, the philosophy on which this initiative is very laudable and far-sighted, as well as realistic costs they are not tied to performance, but the escalation is linked to everything that revolves around 'image, appearance: do you really think that a manufacturer like Bombardier-Rotax, churning out 20 engines per season, with adjoining parts is a problem?

All this complaining about the costs of mechanical 4-stroke, it has a foundation, but in MotoGP has gone too far: it is the company that leases the bike + parts + service that charges a fortune (proportional to the gain, however in the image that draws the user that thanks to the good performance achieved excellent placings. ... When he gets, however).

Everyone must then be free to spend as it considers appropriate to carry out a technology they believe: talking about the golden days, Honda has tried to push the oval piston NR 500 4t for years, spending a lot of money, diffrence for example, Suzuki, another technology developed in-house, but definitely spending less.
There are many ideas in the technical regulations that encourage the use of alternative fuels, biofuels or the use of natural oils (up to 80%)

Clear that if access were to become prohibitive, will be calmed and regulated in some way, but consistency with the principles underlying some of the championship will not be compromised.
To allow everyone to compete, since the costs are lower, but the market and there are implications on the production, was reintroduced to the 50cc class, which was abolished in 1984.

Then we will see 50-cylinder engine with a supercharger, 125 hp with 4 cylinders and 80, as well as 250 six-cylinder turbo 190bhp. And I'm not talking about just two-stroke engines, in fact, this is the championship of the new engines and new technologies, also applied to old patterns, revised, corrected and improved in thermal efficiency.
This will be a season of great interest, from the rich [quality not money] pool of riders, technicians and men, who will soon be known for its great quality.
Get ready, racing is back!








#28 Rennmax

Rennmax
  • Member

  • 1,979 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 22 December 2011 - 21:39



'Then we will see 50-cylinder engine with a supercharger, 125 hp with 4 cylinders and 80, as well as 250 six-cylinder turbo 190bhp'

Hi RD, please excuse my ignorance, but can you give any hint about the spanner fairies who are actually building up these bikes right now ? When the season for this championship starts in April, it's now high time for serious track tests I assume. Have you seen anything right before your very eyes ?

#29 exclubracer

exclubracer
  • Member

  • 1,680 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 December 2011 - 22:02

'Then we will see 50-cylinder engine with a supercharger, 125 hp with 4 cylinders and 80, as well as 250 six-cylinder turbo 190bhp'

Hi RD, please excuse my ignorance, but can you give any hint about the spanner fairies who are actually building up these bikes right now ? When the season for this championship starts in April, it's now high time for serious track tests I assume. Have you seen anything right before your very eyes ?

erm, Christmas cheer setting in early?  ;)

#30 fil2.8

fil2.8
  • Member

  • 19,496 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 December 2011 - 22:13

Very interesting , :love: , look forward to the progress of the series :up:

#31 Hoofhearted

Hoofhearted
  • Member

  • 100 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 22 December 2011 - 23:57

I'll wish the series the series the best of luck but I have the feeling if it takes off whatever engine starts winning (regardless of class) everyone will start running it and the series will wind up no different than what we have now.

Edited by Hoofhearted, 22 December 2011 - 23:58.


#32 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:34

no worries ren, heres a link to some of the engines built and under construction

http://continentalch...com/photos.html

theres no question that disc valves seem the order of the day for the 2 strokes but im not sure what the 4 stroke guys have up their sleeve. [mabye sleeve valves]
on the link you will see the 2 stroke deisel which is already built.

if you refer to the website

http://continentalch...ech.weebly.com/

and go to the rome video conference and skip to around 43 mins you will hear from a guy from oxford university who has built a 125 single with injection which he is hoping to develop further.

a lot of the homemade engines are going on aprillia technology but some of the builders have been working on the principles of the old puch split single engine. [like the one that qualified for the single cyl 125 class at the dutch tt 88 and was allowed to practice under the rule it had 1 combustion chamber then 1 of the 2 pistons seized causing major embarresment for FIM]

to answer the question though, no i havent seen or heard anything running. there are pictures of some of the completed bikes like the 50cc DMF project.

http://projectdmf.we...t-progress.html

i will keep you up to date as much as i can find out but as far as we are now we seem to have

an actual championship
tracks
some machines have been built along with individual engines but weve never seen them run - yet
real interest from eurosport to cover it on tv

cheers :)


#33 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:58

a few links to show some of the ideas and thinking behind the projects, the first link is from the main site which is under construction but when up and running it should these machines in action.

http://continentalch...com/videos.html

deisel twin, this is an old link [1999] but remember they have had nowhere to race this engine - until now

http://www.yamaha-mo...per-diesel.html

http://www.daidegasf...uito-carlo.html



#34 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 23 December 2011 - 10:04

the 250 Story from the head of the CCRT championship, bit of reading again but interesting.

Mr. Franco Barazzutti
The world of motorcycling, has been inhabited several technical and regulatory choices, in order to supply the product better, in terms of technology and spectacular, (personally I would add, improvements, or even absent regressions for some years now).

The 250 class was one of the best examples of these "products", ie, the maximum expression of the bike more balanced in the championship.
Sin of presumption, we might say, which is the essence of the "perfect bike", the one that has as many horses as a 500, but has many more than a 125, that flow like a 125, but it pulls you out very well curves, those who take the hand, on the obverse, a hard time to be 600, and many other beautiful statements, which describe the full ¼ of a liter.

The presence in the MotoGP class has been constant since its inception ie 1949, the year of establishment of the World.
The technical aspect, seen through modern eyes, was a little primitive, but with great vivacity
Technical - design.
Given the time was not ripe, all the vehicles was equipped with 4 stroke engines, and for most singles.

The historical brands carried, number and wins, the colors of Italian, this was a tangible sign of what was, and what would become in the decades to come, the thriving Italian motorcycle industry (and not a few examples of great craftsmanship technology).
The great champions, who wore these means, as acrobats without a net, were: Ubbiali, Auditions, Lorenzetti, Sandford, Ruffo, Ambrosini.

Of course, since the early postwar years, the powers were limited, also linked to poor performance, in proportion to the displacement, 4 stroke engines of the time. The absolute best was considered the NSU with 32 hp.
Although few, the horses were the result of a lively wit, in fact, they saw strange 4t power supplies instead of the rotary spool valves, and other strange things that give power and impress your opponents.
Prime example of 2t sport, you always have in those years, with the DKW two-cylinder 2t, with an accessory that will make the future history of motorcycling, two strange and unsightly bulging pipes called "expansion".

Legend has it that these bikes before the advent of the expansions, they were equipped with megaphones normal.
The noise was so deafening, it can be heard from the English coast, when it was held the leg of the World Manx (unverified source).
From this point on, the two days fight on equal terms with the most noble 4t, surpassing in the years to come.

In 60 years, things change, the bike will evolve and start to get much more performance, while still maintaining even the mastery of numerical 4t.
Important examples of particularly interesting bikes, are: 4-cylinder Benelli and the famous 6-cylinder Honda 250 4t Rc166 brought to the championship of the world, fewer than 2 times, by Jim Redman, only the first character of the legendary Mike Hailwood, able to result in a profitable way this medium is extremely
difficult and sensitive period of its use was very small, about 2000 rpm, which moreover were positioned over 15000.

At this price, you could get something great, a little thunder from F1 exciting, something never heard in the World Championship (although years behind us in the higher category was the Guzzi 8c), from duetempista, which, I can say that I did hear it in motion to raise the hairs on his arms, if I heard it go with your eyes closed, I said to be a Formula One Grand Prix today.
But hand in hand, someone began to consider the alternative, a small factory in eastern Germany by the name Mz with very limited finances, he did take to the track a bike ugly, to 2t, but with a new system (it was actually taken from an old project several years back) the distribution, run by a rotating disk, hence the 250 world and all the continental circus, as it used to be called then, was no longer the same.

One of the leading exponents in the saddle than the Mz Famous Ernest Degener, Grassetti was the Italian, who spent virtually his entire career riding this bike.
The sixties did 4t divide between the old and the new and still mysterious 2t, which completely replaced them in the years to come.

The countries behind the Iron Curtain is not looked on property, and by the end of the 60, the Cecosdlovacca Jawa, took to the track the first example of 250 4cilindri ava 2t, a true work of art, which was unsuccessful, only for matters of very little finances.
Even the Japanese, (after a legendary exchange of favors between Degener and Suzuki) were converted to 2t, and Yamaha built one of 250, performing the most beautiful and the history of motorcycling, the famous 250 4-cylinder with rotating disk distribution carried by Phil Read won 3 world.

This bike is very difficult to hear in motion, given the few examples, I was one of the lucky listeners of his voice, in the 1998 centenary of the TT in Assen, the noise has a frequency very high, and in some intervals, the waves pressure discharges, overlap, and it seems to have no hearing loss, to feel it as it moves away.
Another example of great imagination, was the monocoque Ossa 250 of 1968 made by the famous Eduardo Giró.
This bike was one of the earliest examples of box frame in light alloy.
The alloy used was magnesium, metal insaldabile virtually, for the poor mortals of the time, the bones solved the problem by making use of aeronautical technologies and materials, which allowed to solve these problems.

In the 70's, now in this category, 2t was master of the slopes, and the view was enriched significantly new technical examples, including: the advent of the reed valve from Yamaha to equip its 250 tz.

Again we find names in the annals of historical victories, including: Walter Villa, Kork Ballington,
Anton Mang Mario League, Jarno Saarinen, the latter, unfortunately, a victim of the bloodiest in 1973 motorcycle accident of history, along with another great champion, Renzo Pasolini.
These were the years when the Mz, made the final races, finishing a career as a pioneer.
The 70's were a hive of craftsmen, who built several variations on this theme, including engines and chassis, to remember that the French Chevalier undertook the construction of a frame with a particular propensity to use technology to reduce the weight of the rib.

The Italians made a contribution, with the famous RTM 250 2 cylinder configuration "Tandem superimposed."
Additionally, remember all those bikes built on a Yamaha or Rotax tz in tandem with signing looms Kobas, Harris, etc., or Bekker.
One important note is the presence in those years Italy's MBA (Morbidelli Benelli Armi) that produce a competitive bike and totally new, gave way to private persons, to race and compete with the officers.

The 80's saw the approach of the massive Japanese houses, to 250, producing several copies for individuals.
The diversification technique, was not excessive, and saw almost all (the Yamaha diversified towards the end) of the 250 east, equipped with two engines layered cylinders in line, only exceptions were the Honda V with its European and including: Parisienne, MBA, Pernod, Aprilia, Garelli.
It is interesting to note that Honda, in the 80's, made a huge experiment on the 2t; authoritative sources informed on the subject, say that the bike most experimental of all the modern history of the 2 250 t was the Freddy Spencer.

Additionally, it seems, that the same Honda, when in recent years, has had to pull out, something deadly for the opponents, has tapped into what had been done on that bike, using the results of the experiments, drop by drop (see 125 Pedrosa 2001).
La Parisienne, Parisienne MBA also called, was the evolution of the old MBA 250, because the designer himself (Joerg Moeller) who created the 250 Morbidelli, hired by another client, redesigned the engine, inspired by his old ¼ liter, but with many changes including rotation of the cylinder 180 degrees, in order to have the waste completely straight.
This bike has inspired other designers of the period, including Yamaha, using the same formula, changing only the type of admission, by rotating disk in laminar.

The solution is so valid and rational, which now recovering Yamaha Reverse the project (as it was called the successor of tz parallel), or the Parisienne, and updated properly, could be a serious danger to blasonatissime Aprilia.
Pernod, represented, for a short period the alternative, much like an MBA, designed by Jean Bidalot, (the same who made the beautiful Motobecane 125) unfortunately not very successful especially for chronic problems of enormous vibrations.

The 'MBA, differed from a more conventional aerodynamic Parisienne, but in reality it had not, since already in older versions, the details are very experienced unprecedented.
The Garelli is a project valid and well-structured, single engine V among Europeans (except the Aprilia is later), had no great fortune, even as noble paternity (Jan Thiel the King), for minor problems of organization the leaders of the time, and overload of work on the Dutchman, who in theory was to follow 3 different engines in the next 2 to win a new World, and one under development.

This project will then be taken up by a well-known technique that is still in business, who will design an engine on the same design used a lot on the latest 250 (short stroke), changing the type of power, it will be this decision will lead to the production of a engine with chronic reliability problems related to lack of compatibility between disc packs and engine design.
The 90's gave important refinements to the category, with the use of carbon brake discs, special studies on aerodynamics (see Harada Yamaha 250),
and the gradual transition for everyone, from the cylinders arranged parallel to the AV in this regard, we recall the passage from the model of the Yamaha YZR 250 with the famous Reverse av-cylinder engines and two shafts through a muffler under the seat and one under the engine, always laminar distribution.

This scheme is very efficient (see Aprilia RSW 88), and the Japanese was easy to do, cutting a slice of the motor YZR 500.
Even Honda, later tried this pattern, with excellent results (Won World from Kato).
And we get, so to speak, to this day, the Aprilia.
In the early 80's, at the hands of some fans and small lenders, including Loris Reggiani, and Michele Verrini, manage to assemble a motorcycle, was born as so many others, from a chassis and an engine craft box.

Many examples were also well done era, such as Armstrong (bike with good potential, equipped with a carbon fiber frame) and the Real Kobas, they all had in common the only engine sold in the market, the Rotax 250 in Tandem.
Aprilia took 3 years to be able to fly, but the results came in '87, so sudden, that the bike in a league game, was called in to control the displacement occurs, it is perfectly in order.

The team meanwhile, was enlarged by absorbing names that will make the fortune of this motion, as: Dolph Van der Woude, technical director since February 87 and Coco, the designer of all the old towels Aprilia GP.
In '88, comes the greatest technical innovation, at the request of management, Dolph Van der Woude (ONE TRUE FATHER OF MOTOR RSW 250), designed the new 90 degree V engine that comes with small reinterpretations, to this day .

It should be remembered that most of the victories of the 90 Aprilia and 2000 are due to the contribution of a few technical people, including the great Jan Thiel, who has developed continuously, starting from the first 90 years, many parts of the motors 125 and 250 leading to victory, names such as Biaggi, Rossi, Harada, Capirossi ... ... ..
The latest versions of the 250 RSW, RSA have been renamed, but it really does not have large differences from the old, at least substantially, the only real changes made are: redesigning the gearbox, to be able to rotate and make it more compact, so have the higher pinion, and in some cases the replacement of the cylinders with the new derivatives by RSA 125.

Last major difference is the direction of rotation of the engine, which according to an authoritative source, and informed on the subject, did not bring improvements but rather, brought down the overall performance of the vehicle.

Unfortunately we arrived to our days really, which is an unfair and regressive decision has sidelined these wonderful bikes, the racing world, I personally think that this is a great example of no account with respect to the technical part that thinks and takes care of these means (including the related industrial sectors), and low sense of logic, in deciding to replace half, the spectacular economic training for pilots and technicians, and high performance as the 250, with an unidentified dinosaur brand rental mono, from higher performance with low costs, much lower (not gold that we take for us to see the TV, newspapers or administers to us, we think the logical sense of what you are reading), and the smell of easy "movement" to 'black boxes inside of where the current passes, not to mention the fantastic ecological justifications.

This consideration is made objectively and without exaggeration, because it is so obvious and easy to understand these gross errors, which would be much more difficult to give the false justifications: think about it.
The only regret, is the complete abstention from the general public and the fans show their disapproval for the abolition of this category after the first faint sign of heel, the public has accepted and digested the appearance of the bike 2 , and imaginary excuses about why the substitution.
The most depriomente, is that always the same audience, that he tore his hair in years when Biaggi grind victories, was left stunned in front of memorable top speed on the straights of Mugello, is what has not escaped this decision.
After what has been said, I leave writing a very bitter phrase "See you at 125!"


#35 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 19 January 2012 - 07:18

hi, just to give a bit of an update on this,

the deadline they set for all classes to have entrants confirmed (otherwise the class will be dropped) was the last day of january, with this date approaching there has been nothing come out of the series yet - in other words if they dont get em all registered by this date it will not happen!

the first round was meant to take place at the red bull ring A1 circuit in april but this has been cancelled and i cannot confirm why, i know a few years back the owner of the track said it would only be used for DTM events but then why confirm it originally?

hopefully some good news will come through but mabye they have tried to go too fast with it or there mabye other forces at work?

#36 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 27 February 2012 - 22:19

we have life at last!

seems they have it officially sanctioned by the UEM (European Motorcycle Union) and another circuit has been added which they wanted but no info about bikes,riders or quantities.

#37 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 05 March 2012 - 03:55

the final registration date has been moved from january to 31st march so it all seems back in order.

a championship that was talked about early last year was this 6 round euro cup that suter was organizing for his v4 500 machines, well apparently he still intends to run this and he has now finished some of the bikes.
go to the link and click on the black suter racing logo.

http://www.suterraci...n/suter500.html

#38 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:48

for those interested, 22nd april or this weekend was the allocated and advertised 1st round of the CCRT championship at the slovakia ring.

final entrys were taken for the middle of march 2012 so they should know how many entrants they have and what machines are running, although they have not shared any info on these.

nor have they confirmed if there is any tv coverage, also they have taken off the dates for the racing circuits.

running out time now with a few days left but it seems they like to get things out at the last minute!

i for one cant wait to see who and whats out there and for me this is the most exciting thing to happen to the world of motorcycling since the start of the 2001 grand prix season.

fingers crossed all goes well and we see a return to real racing :)

Edited by rd500, 17 April 2012 - 10:49.


#39 tonyed

tonyed
  • Member

  • 488 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 17 April 2012 - 16:39

The Suter 500 what a thing of beauty.

At £107K however I have persuaded the wife that I ought to lower my sights and buy the cheaper ROC YZR at Stafford next weekend thus saving the household budget £70K. :cool:

I didn't realise that a cast iron frying pan was so hard :drunk:

Edited by tonyed, 17 April 2012 - 16:40.


Advertisement

#40 Rennmax

Rennmax
  • Member

  • 1,979 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 17 April 2012 - 17:10

for those interested, 22nd april or this weekend was the allocated and advertised 1st round of the CCRT championship at the slovakia ring.

final entrys were taken for the middle of march 2012 so they should know how many entrants they have and what machines are running, although they have not shared any info on these.

nor have they confirmed if there is any tv coverage, also they have taken off the dates for the racing circuits.

running out time now with a few days left but it seems they like to get things out at the last minute!

i for one cant wait to see who and whats out there and for me this is the most exciting thing to happen to the world of motorcycling since the start of the 2001 grand prix season.

fingers crossed all goes well and we see a return to real racing :)


I sincerely hope that we now see some sort of life from CCRT

http://www.slovakiar...uhu-2012-en-GB/

Strange it's not even mentioned in the preview here :|

#41 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:58

that might explain why they removed the dates from the website?

seen this though

http://www.uem-moto....;end=1335736800

surely this must be correct.

#42 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 08 May 2012 - 00:19

just to let you know folks of course last weekend 28/29 april was meant to be the first event in slovakia and we even had a date put up for the donington round in june but things have gone a bit weird.

there was no details even saturday morning of who was competing on what or how many there was with absolutely no info on their website but there was access to a results page on the EMU website (link in post above) but this was never filled in and now the the CCRT events and even race title has been pulled from their calendar still with absolutely no info on the CCRT website

sent an email to the slovakia ring and it was a world touring car event only that weekend :confused:

fingers crossed will get some news through soon.

cheers :up:

#43 Rennmax

Rennmax
  • Member

  • 1,979 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:41

just to let you know folks of course last weekend 28/29 april was meant to be the first event in slovakia and we even had a date put up for the donington round in june but things have gone a bit weird.

there was no details even saturday morning of who was competing on what or how many there was with absolutely no info on their website but there was access to a results page on the EMU website (link in post above) but this was never filled in and now the the CCRT events and even race title has been pulled from their calendar still with absolutely no info on the CCRT website

sent an email to the slovakia ring and it was a world touring car event only that weekend :confused:

fingers crossed will get some news through soon.

cheers :up:


Thanks for the information and your passion RD, seems to be the most secret venture since the Manhattan project

#44 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:20

Thanks for the information and your passion RD, seems to be the most secret venture since the Manhattan project


thanks renn, i think something must of happened as its like there is no trace of it at all now, but this happened at the beginning of the year also then it was all hands on deck!

#45 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:34

just to let you know

Dear racers and constructors,
The championship has been very successful and has received considerable interest.
On 2012/02/23, we have signed the official contract with the UEM to have the official  European Motorcycle Union brand. This contract is exclusively confirmed for this  championship type also for 2013.
In fact many riders ask us if the championship could be postponed to 2013 because they  need time to finish their new prototypes. Moreover some circuits were no longer available  this year.
Therefore the championship is postponed to 2013, and we will organize one test race in 2012 for all riders (under construction).
In time the new application for 2013 will also open and we will have many time to organize even better.


#46 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:31

a new machine for next years CCRT championship

http://continentalch...om/pivotal.html

i really hope they get this off the ground next year.

#47 fil2.8

fil2.8
  • Member

  • 19,496 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 17 September 2012 - 15:44

a new machine for next years CCRT championship

http://continentalch...om/pivotal.html

i really hope they get this off the ground next year.



So do I :love: :up:


#48 tonyed

tonyed
  • Member

  • 488 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 17 September 2012 - 17:33

I know I am not Jan Thiel and the open letter is not in English (which might have enlightened me) but what is the advantage of this engine configuration over a normal two stroke whether it be piston ported, with or without reed or exhaust power valves or disc valve. :confused:
What does the 'sliding piston' do. I cannot see that it is a form of 'boosting' as it appears to move with the other piston thus does not variate (?) the combustion volume.
Jan is not an idiot so it must enhance the two stroke concept to justify the machining complexities that such a configuration will require. :rolleyes:

Answer on a signed 'bone fide' cheque for 100 K payable to the buy 'Tony Edwards a 500 cc YZR fund' :clap:

Sod innovation give me 'brute power' as Bazzer and Our 'Enery used to say :kiss:

Anyway lets hope it starts the demise of the single cylinder 'MotoDumper' the bastard offspring of the four cylinder car engined 'things'. :cool:

More of a conundrum, what is this Moto3 class? It’s like the return of the dinosaurs, bigger slower, more complex, more expensive to feed (parts, engine manufacture etc) but eventually crap and dies out.

Edited by tonyed, 17 September 2012 - 17:39.


#49 Rennmax

Rennmax
  • Member

  • 1,979 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 17 September 2012 - 20:01


http://www.pivotalen...pt#280,14,Folie 14

Seems to be a venture from '96

#50 rd500

rd500
  • Member

  • 474 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 17 September 2012 - 20:24

tony if you go to Post #22 on this thread you will get the letter in english.

mabye they have found the design better with the fuel injection systems?

must admit i still use the old brute now and again, apparently barry hated it.