42 replies to this topic

[joshb]

Monday 5th September marks the 40th anniversary of one of F1's more memorable races- the 1971 Italian GP at Monza
The last F1 race held there before they installed chicanes and the last of the slipstreaming classics.
To this day its the closest 1st and 2nd finish (0.01secs), the closest 1-2-3-4-5 finish (0.61secs) and until 2003 was the fastest race ever at over 150mph average speed.
Whilst I was only born 20 years after the race and haven't watched much footage of the drivers of that era, I felt it was important that such a race was remembered.

http://en.wikipedia....lian_Grand_Prix

[kayemod]

I felt it was important that such a race was remembered.

Yes, as of course it has been over several pages in the current issue of Motor Sport.

[mfd]

Whilst I was only born 20 years after the race and haven't watched much footage of the drivers of that era, I felt it was important that such a race was remembered.

You can see some footage of the race here Josh (it's an example of TV coverage in the day, with very few available camera positions)

[Barry Boor]

Perhaps it's simply that I'm getting old but I have to confess that I find that footage positively frightening.

[mfd]

Perhaps it's simply that I'm getting old but I have to confess that I find that footage positively frightening.

The survivors from that race being so few...

[kayemod]

The survivors from that race being so few...

Happily though, Pete is still with us.

[Nanni Dietrich]

Once in the race Peter Gethin got the lead (if I remember well): the last Parabolica bend!

During the last laps who was leading at the Ascari bend and in the following straight, DID NOT lead at the finish-line. Don't know why Cevert took the lead on the penultimate lap.

Great great video, indeed. Did not watch these images since... 40 years!

[mfd]

Happily though, Pete is still with us.

Along with Surtees, Amon, Pescarolo, Ganley, Stewart, Ickx, Fittipaldi, Schenken, Oliver, Marko, Jarier, De Adamich, Galli

[Barry Boor]

With the officials looking the other way, of course.

[David M. Kane]

Thank you! Thank you! Yes that was scary; but very exciting stuff!

[Michael Ferner]

He took the lead at the start. You could say that Monza’s starts were his specialty.

Oh, he did the same thing at Silverstone, too, iirc!

[Bauble]

It was not until Michael Schumacher won in 2003 that the race record speed was exceeded, pretty decent performance from the good old BRM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Giraffe]

By giraffe138 at 2010-02-20

[PCC]

Perhaps it's simply that I'm getting old but I have to confess that I find that footage positively frightening.

I agree! To see them storming into the braking zone of Parabolica, two and three abreast... Apparently, they hadn't heard of the 'one-move rule'!

[David Lawson]

What is very apparent in the footage is the amount of room they are giving each other, a lot of respect for each other and the dangers of slipstreaming at those speeds.

David

[cheesy poofs]

Noticed a strip of darker tarmac on the straight between Ascari and Parabolica on this video.
Was the track widened at this part of the track for the 1971 race?!

[Michael Ferner]

If you are referring to 1979, I think so, yes.

Actually, I was refering to SIlverstone in '71.

[john winfield]

Actually, I was refering to SIlverstone in '71.

Michael's right about 1971. Clay, on pole, felt Dean Delamont was taking too long to drop the Union Jack so headed for Copse, then stopped. Fittipaldi followed and joined Stewart and Siffert on the front row. Clay got going again when the flag was finally flourished, holding a healthy lead from team mate Ickx who took advantage of the gaps to grab second from way back on the third row! A Ferrari 1-2 when they came past me at Stowe. Sadly, it didn't last long.

One of the mags showed a picture of Mauro Forghieri chatting with Regazzoni. 'What, Clay a-jumpa de start?' 'Don't a blame-a me' says Clay, 'blame de leetle man with the balda head'. Or something similar......

[scheivlak]

Once in the race Peter Gethin got the lead (if I remember well): the last Parabolica bend!

Have a look at this: http://atlasf1.autos...t.html?raceid=4

You will also see there that on lap 25, just before half distance, Gethin was 7th and more than 6 seconds behind the last man of the leading group. He had to claw back all that distance and only connected to the lead group some 7 laps before he finish!
Just a few laps later he was leading.

Remarkable BTW is how flimsy Peterson's wing was - but then, Denny Hulme won the 1968 GP after the McLaren team consciously decided to strip the wings from their cars http://www.forix.com...8...amp;p=0&o=1

[raceannouncer2003]

Did you notice the people running back and forth on the banking to watch the battle?

Vince H.

[jj2728]

What is very apparent in the footage is the amount of room they are giving each other, a lot of respect for each other and the dangers of slipstreaming at those speeds.

David

Not to mention the car control under extreme braking at the Parabolica.

[john winfield]

Not to mention the car control under extreme braking at the Parabolica.

Good point jj. You can understand why Howden Ganley, during that last lap, keeps a careful eye on proceedings from fifth place. One small mistake up ahead, four cars off at Parabolica, and a different BRM takes the win! As someone pointed out, perhaps on a different thread, none of the leading group had ever won a Grand Prix so this classic slipstreamer, both frantic and clean, is a credit to them all.

[Nanni Dietrich]

Good point jj. You can understand why Howden Ganley, during that last lap, keeps a careful eye on proceedings from fifth place. One small mistake up ahead, four cars off at Parabolica, and a different BRM takes the win! As someone pointed out, perhaps on a different thread, none of the leading group had ever won a Grand Prix so this classic slipstreamer, both frantic and clean, is a credit to them all.

And one of them was no less than Mike-the-Bike Hailwood, at his debut at the wheel of the Surtees TS9.

[nmansellfan]

Always a cracking piece of footage to watch. And as I and others have mentioned before, I never thought any TV footage of this classic race existed until the 6 minute clip appeared on Youtube! I only wish that there was a camera following them through the old Curva Grande - I know we've had this discussion before, did any of the drivers manage to take it flat in '71? By the end of the S/F straight they must have been doing 190-200mph by then, even with wings.

Edited by nmansellfan, 06 September 2011 - 11:43.

[mfd]

I never thought any TV footage of this classic race existed until the 6 minute clip appeared on Youtube! I only wish that there was a camera following them through the old Curva Grande - I know we've had this discussion before, did any of the drivers manage to take it flat in '71? By the end of the S/F straight they must have been doing 190-200mph by then, even with wings.

This is what happened to the circuit in 1972 & goes some way to explaining why the lap & race records from 71 stood for quite a while
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

and although slightly o/t there's good colour from Montjuich (another "challenging" circuit) in 71 here
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

[Barry Boor]

Still O.T. but if you ever get the chance, go to Montjuic and walk the circuit.

It's a fabulous place.

[jj2728]

Still O.T. but if you ever get the chance, go to Montjuic and walk the circuit.

It's a fabulous place.

Quite.....

[chdphd]

Still O.T. but if you ever get the chance, go to Montjuic and walk the circuit.

It's a fabulous place.

I did bits of the circuit aboard the tourist bus last year

[nmansellfan]

This is what happened to the circuit in 1972 & goes some way to explaining why the lap & race records from 71 stood for quite a while
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

and although slightly o/t there's good colour from Montjuich (another "challenging" circuit) in 71 here
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Cheers MFD, amazing footage there, and yes it definately shows why the records from 71 remained unbroken for such a long time. What was the reason for Jackie's retirement on lap one?


I saw on the 'related videos' section to the 71 Montuich footage (is it the Brunswick footage? I haven't got sound here at work), a short clip of the B+W TV feed from the same race - it vividly shows how quick and dangerous Monjuic Park was as a circuit, particularly at 1m10 where the cars are going very light over the brow. http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

That the thing with Youtube for me, I can look at one video, the next thing a couple of hours have passed from looking at other stuff on there and I 've lost all track of time!

I also did a partial lap of Montjuic on the tourist bus this summer, I was pleased to hear the history of the GP mentioned on the English commentary.

Edited by nmansellfan, 07 September 2011 - 11:59.

[Tim Murray]

What was the reason for Jackie's retirement on lap one?

His transmission failed as he selected second gear off the startline. According to Paddy McNally in Autosport the clutch disintegrated and first gear stripped its teeth. Stewart had reported a lot of play on the clutch pedal after the warm-up lap.

[Nanni Dietrich]

Cheers MFD, amazing footage there, and yes it definately shows why the records from 71 remained unbroken for such a long time. What was the reason for Jackie's retirement on lap one?


...

Stewart had clutch trouble shortly after the start.
I was just there, along the fence at the first chicane (with a group of teenage friends we have slept the previous night in sleeping bags on the curb of the chicane... ).
JYS walked towards the pits, just in front of me, and despite the Italian crowd booed him, he waved at us and smiled.
Minutes later also Carlos Reutemann and Tim Schenken parked their broken cars almost at the same spot, and walked slowly in front of me with their helmets in hand, coming back to the pits... I have a b-w picture of each of them, taken with my Kodak Istamatic... those were the days.

[john winfield]

"I saw on the 'related videos' section to the 71 Montuich footage (is it the Brunswick footage? I haven't got sound here at work), a short clip of the B+W TV feed from the same race - it vividly shows how quick and dangerous Monjuic Park was as a circuit, particularly at 1m10 where the cars are going very light over the brow. http://www.youtube.c...feature=related"

That's a great bit of Montjuic footage! Even more OT, in a decade when complaints were heard about too many 'kit cars' (Cosworth - Hewland etc.) the shots early on, as they leap over the brow, show the first seven as Ferrari-Tyrrell-Matra-Ferrari-BRM-Matra-Ferrari! Of course, the Tyrrell-Ford won but, for twelve cylinder fans, it must have sounded sweet in those opening laps.

Edited by john winfield, 07 September 2011 - 12:33.

[mfd]

That's a great bit of Montjuic footage! Even more OT, in a decade when complaints were heard about too many 'kit cars' (Cosworth - Hewland etc.) the shots early on, as they leap over the brow, show the first seven as Ferrari-Tyrrell-Matra-Ferrari-BRM-Matra-Ferrari! Of course, the Tyrrell-Ford won but, for twelve cylinder fans, it must have sounded sweet in those opening laps.

1971 - Access all areas Some today seem to think the noise doesn't matter - they're idiots - I remember there's an unofficial vote for the best sounding car at Cholmondeley & won this year by the Lambo engined Lotus...sorry more OT

Edited by mfd, 07 September 2011 - 13:20.

[Barry Boor]

Still O.T. but prompted by nmansellfan's comment about the bus tour commentary in Montjuic, things have certainly changed....

Check out post #5 on this thread.

[JacnGille]

That the thing with Youtube for me, I can look at one video, the next thing a couple of hours have passed from looking at other stuff on there and I 've lost all track of time!

Yep, same here.

[layabout]

Always a cracking piece of footage to watch. And as I and others have mentioned before, I never thought any TV footage of this classic race existed until the 6 minute clip appeared on Youtube! I only wish that there was a camera following them through the old Curva Grande - I know we've had this discussion before, did any of the drivers manage to take it flat in '71? By the end of the S/F straight they must have been doing 190-200mph by then, even with wings.

Ref. Taking the Curva Grande flat

According to one of the five combatants, the answer is yes. Certainly for the front runners (he thinks) & definitely for himself.

[Lee Nicolle]

You can see some footage of the race here Josh (it's an example of TV coverage in the day, with very few available camera positions)

I love the first corner shot, the leader just about backs it in speedway style.That clip was probably more exciting than a season of current F1.
And the cars look like cars instead of a mad boffins nightmare!

[Lee Nicolle]

This is what happened to the circuit in 1972 & goes some way to explaining why the lap & race records from 71 stood for quite a while
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

and although slightly o/t there's good colour from Montjuich (another "challenging" circuit) in 71 here
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

That Montjuich circuit looks interesting, sort of Monaco, but with some room.

[Barry Boor]

I agree with your last sentence, Lee, but cannot with the penultimate one. Are you watching F.1 this season?

[Giraffe]

An e-mail received from the driver who finished in 5th place that day.....

The Monza 1971 thread started OK , but as you will have noticed it diverted
into a Monjuich thread - Monza was forgotten ! Monjuich was a wonderful
circuit , and should have it's own thread. I had never realised how far the
cars got into the air up at the top of the pit straight until a fan sent me a
photo a few years ago. All four wheels well off the ground. I have it framed
on my study wall - right in front of me as I am writing this.

Howden

[Barry Boor]

Tony, have you directed Howden to the threads on Montjuic/Montjuich? There are several.

[Giraffe]

Tony, have you directed Howden to the threads on Montjuic/Montjuich? There are several.

Thanks Barry, I will let Howden know.

[Nanni Dietrich]

An e-mail received from the driver who finished in 5th place that day.....

The Monza 1971 thread started OK , but as you will have noticed it diverted
into a Monjuich thread - Monza was forgotten ! Monjuich was a wonderful
circuit , and should have it's own thread. I had never realised how far the
cars got into the air up at the top of the pit straight until a fan sent me a
photo a few years ago. All four wheels well off the ground. I have it framed
on my study wall - right in front of me as I am writing this.

Howden

Please Tony, ask Mr. Ganley about the last laps of the 1971 Italian GP. I've read years ago that he was feeling his engine losing power. He could fight no more for the lead, so he decided to give some help to team mate Gethin, trying to "stop" or to interfere at least Mike Hailwood's run, who was the only one "within his reach" (Cevert and Ronnie Peterson were too fast, battling ahead, against Pete Gethin). Is it true?