46 replies to this topic

[retrospeed]

How come Chrysler have the nerve to re badge the three year old Lancia Delta and sell it in the UK as a NEW car.

[elansprint72]

Desperation?

[Ralf Pickel]

Why not ? They rebadge the Chrysler 300 and sell it as a Lancia something here in Europe.....
And the Fiat dealer in my neighbourhood has a new model, badged Fiat, which still has it´s Dodge-ish grille.
So - an easy way to kill a handful of companies with one strike !

[retrospeed]

Why not ? They rebadge the Chrysler 300 and sell it as a Lancia something here in Europe.....
And the Fiat dealer in my neighbourhood has a new model, badged Fiat, which still has it´s Dodge-ish grille.
So - an easy way to kill a handful of companies with one strike !

The guys over at Lancia Motor Club Forum are going crazy.

[Tuboscocca]

Next: DACIA Stratos??

Michael

[BRG]

With Lancia's reputation amongst the general public in the UK, it is probably better to badge it a Chrysler - which has achieved a fair penetration of the UK market now.

Edited by BRG, 06 September 2011 - 10:22.

[retrospeed]

With Lancia's reputation amongst the general public in the UK, it is probably better to badge it a Chrysler - which has achieved a fair penetration of the UK market now.

That's exactly the reason.

[retrospeed]

With Lancia's reputation amongst the general public in the UK, it is probably better to badge it a Chrysler - which has achieved a fair penetration of the UK market now.

That's exactly the reason.

[RStock]

How come Chrysler have the nerve to re badge the three year old Lancia Delta and sell it in the UK as a NEW car.

Doesn't FIAT own Chrysler now? So it would be FIAT doing this, not Chrysler?

[kayemod]

Doesn't FIAT own Chrysler now? So it would be FIAT doing this, not Chrysler?

All true, and they do seem to be making quite a good job of sorting out the disaster that was Chrysler, though there's a lot more 'badge engineering' to come from them. There are expectations of an Alfa-badged Chrysler SUV, and even a Lancia-badged Chrysler 300. They offered to lend me a 300 once when my Alfa 159 was in for a service, but I told them I'd only accept on condition that it came with a balaclava or ski-mask, just in case anyone I knew saw me at the wheel.

[retrospeed]

All true, and they do seem to be making quite a good job of sorting out the disaster that was Chrysler, though there's a lot more 'badge engineering' to come from them. There are expectations of an Alfa-badged Chrysler SUV, and even a Lancia-badged Chrysler 300. They offered to lend me a 300 once when my Alfa 159 was in for a service, but I told them I'd only accept on condition that it came with a balaclava or ski-mask, just in case anyone I knew saw me at the wheel.

Could get really interesting if Fiat go ahead with a new Flavia and Thema, both Lancia names tagged to US products.

[RStock]

Doesn't FIAT still own Maserati as well? There are some Maser SUVs around, though rare. I wonder if they are actually a badged Chrysler.

[kayemod]

Could get really interesting if Fiat go ahead with a new Flavia and Thema, both Lancia names tagged to US products.

I wish they'd do something quickly to fill yawning medium-sized gaps in the Fiat, Lancia and Alfa ranges. As long as it's not too compromised to appeal too much to either US or European tastes, intelligent co-operation could be a good idea. I loved my last Alfa, but they lost a fairly faithful customer when they couldn't offer anything to replace my 159. I was forced to transfer my affections from Benito's favourite to Adolf's, so far though, alles ist sehr gut.

Edit, just seen Robby's last one. Yes, FIAT do own Maserati, and Ferrari is theirs as well. I can't see them ever doing anything to compromise the mystique of either of those two brands, and I don't think we'll ever see a Ferrari SUV, though they do now offer a 4x4 in their range.

Edited by kayemod, 06 September 2011 - 19:11.

[BRG]

I don't think we'll ever see a Ferrari SUV

That's what we Porsche aficionados thought a few years ago.

Still, with the FIAT group's marketing skill, we can probably expect the Alfa PT Cruiser, the Ferrari Grand Cherokee, the Chrysler Enzo, the Maserati Punto....

[RStock]

Edit, just seen Robby's last one. Yes, FIAT do own Maserati, and Ferrari is theirs as well. I can't see them ever doing anything to compromise the mystique of either of those two brands, and I don't think we'll ever see a Ferrari SUV, though they do now offer a 4x4 in their range.

I don't know, there was talk of a Ferrari shooting brake not long ago. Is that the 4x4 you are referring to?

Edited by REDARMYSOJA, 06 September 2011 - 21:13.

[BRG]

I don't know, there was talk of a Ferrari shooting brake not long ago. Is that the 4x4 you are referring to?

Ferrari FF

[RStock]

Ferrari FF

A sure sign the end is near.

[packapoo]

Oh dear.
The tail seems to be wagging the dog.
Takes me back to the old 'How do you pronounce Chrysler as in Daimler Chrysler?'

[cdrewett]

How come Chrysler have the nerve to re badge the three year old Lancia Delta and sell it in the UK as a NEW car.

Well I have always rather liked the Delta and wished they would make it in RH drive. Let's wait and see what the road tests say.
Chris

[retrospeed]

Well I have always rather liked the Delta and wished they would make it in RH drive. Let's wait and see what the road tests say.
Chris

I was at the Geneva Show when the new Delta was launched. Enthusiasts were hoping the car would mirror the rally successes of the earlier years but instead Lancia or rather Fiat ignored it's fine heritage and instead produced a rather plump elongated saloon that was neither one thing or the other. Sporting image they said belonged to Alfa Romeo. Lancia is no longer a sophisticated brand bristling with new technology, rather it is just a Fiat with extras. When I look at my Fulvia 1.6HF and compare it with today's Lancia product I weep. What has happened?

[Paul Parker]

With Lancia's reputation amongst the general public in the UK, it is probably better to badge it a Chrysler - which has achieved a fair penetration of the UK market now.

When I was working for mainstream German dealers during the 1970s/80s I well recall the absolute necessity of forensic examination of anything badged from Lancia and the trade's reluctance to buy them but it was not just Lancia.

The Renault 20 whose rear hatch detached itself from its mountings when I opened it and narrowly missed crushing my feet because it had rotted through its hinges, mounting brackets and bolts, will not be forgotten. Ditto the Alfasud that I took in as a p/x which as it was driven away by the trader lost its driver's door which landed in the road, the scabrous Saabs with flakey paintwork, suspect Citroens, anything Jaguar older than 5 or so years, assorted Leyland horrors and so on. If you bought any of these with exception you found yourself locked into buying another one when the time came as only the franchise that sold them would give any kind of acceptable part exchange.

Nor was it just a question of rusting bodywork either. It is a great shame that Lancias appeared to be made of such low grade steel, even more so when one recalls the elegance of the cars during the 1950s/early 1960s, ditto various Alfas of this period.

[retrospeed]

When I was working for mainstream German dealers during the 1970s/80s I well recall the absolute necessity of forensic examination of anything badged from Lancia and the trade's reluctance to buy them but it was not just Lancia.

The Renault 20 whose rear hatch detached itself from its mountings when I opened it and narrowly missed crushing my feet because it had rotted through its hinges, mounting brackets and bolts, will not be forgotten. Ditto the Alfasud that I took in as a p/x which as it was driven away by the trader lost its driver's door which landed in the road, the scabrous Saabs with flakey paintwork, suspect Citroens, anything Jaguar older than 5 or so years, assorted Leyland horrors and so on. If you bought any of these with exception you found yourself locked into buying another one when the time came as only the franchise that sold them would give any kind of acceptable part exchange.

Nor was it just a question of rusting bodywork either. It is a great shame that Lancias appeared to be made of such low grade steel, even more so when one recalls the elegance of the cars during the 1950s/early 1960s, ditto various Alfas of this period.

Fiat took over Lancia in 1969 and immediately looked to reducing production costs. the second and third series Fulvia showed a continuing decline in quality build. The Beta co incided with Fiat accepting re constituted steel from Russia in payment of debt and thereby hangs the tale. In defence of Fiat very few cars built during the early/mid seventies escaped drastic corrosion problems. just ask any 911 owner.

[Paul Parker]

Fiat took over Lancia in 1969 and immediately looked to reducing production costs. the second and third series Fulvia showed a continuing decline in quality build. The Beta co incided with Fiat accepting re constituted steel from Russia in payment of debt and thereby hangs the tale. In defence of Fiat very few cars built during the early/mid seventies escaped drastic corrosion problems. just ask any 911 owner.

Some early 911s were OK but many Mk1 VW Golfs were rust buckets.

In any case I was not targeting Lancia/Alfa Romeo per se, rather most cars until the mid-late 1980s were rust prone compared to their predecessors. I am old enough to remember how many British cars of the 1950s/60s/70s suffered extreme corrosion within a few years, often through inadequate painting from new and poor design with water trapped inside internal body panelling. The worst culprits in earlier years appeared to be Vauxhall, Ford, most BMC products especially MGAs, Jaguars and even the steel bodied Rolls/Bentley S1 range. As with your Fiat/Lancia example this too was down to minimising production costs and never mind the consequences, certainly in one particular manufacturer's case. No doubt too that inferior grade steel was part of the problem.

Nowadays it is commonplace to see otherwise structurally sound if rather tatty 10-15 year old volume production cars in breakers' yards simply because they are finally worn out mechanically where once it would have been the dreaded tinworm that finished them off even before their period engines and transmissions gave up the ghost.

Thankfully production cars since circa 1990 are vastly superior in terms of durability to what came before with very rare exception.

[kayemod]

Thankfully production cars since circa 1990 are vastly superior in terms of durability to what came before with very rare exception.

Everything that Paul says is true, but although I've never worked in the motor trade, my experience has been that dealers generally are pretty sensible and clued-up with regard to the cars they deal in. The perceptions of the car buying public on the other hand, can take many years to catch up, if they ever do, which makes me suspect that they'll shun these re-badged Deltas, no matter what they're called. As far as the UK is concerned, I suspect that anything with Lancia connotations will be almost unsaleable for years to come. For the last three years I've had an Alfa. Several well-meaning friends, one of them a Honda dealer, told me I must be off my head when I told them I was thinking of buying one. The car was a delight in every way though, a real pleasure to own and drive, it cost me nothing other than routine servicing, no faults or problems at all, other than a couple of minor trim items, all put right under a fairly generously interpreted warranty. The reactions of the Ford/Vauxhall/Nissan/Renault etc owning public on the other hand defied belief, all drooled over the looks, but almost all the comments I got were along the lines of "How many times has it broken down?", "Has it rusted yet?", or "It's depreciated over £100 while I've been talking to you", I didn't bother pointing out that their Ford/Vauxhall/Nissan etc has probably depreciated by at least as much in the same time. When I swapped it for a Mercedes last month, the MB dealer's trade-in offer surprised me, the car had actually cost less in depreciation than the Audi and Saab that preceded it, his comment was, "A few years ago I wouldn't have done a deal on an Alfa at any price, but these days they're as good as anything out there, probably better than many", which has been my experience as well. You try convincing Joe public of that truth though, which is what makes me think that the Fiat/Chrysler group are going to have problems moving Lancias, no matter what they're badged as.

[retrospeed]

Some early 911s were OK but many Mk1 VW Golfs were rust buckets.

In any case I was not targeting Lancia/Alfa Romeo per se, rather most cars until the mid-late 1980s were rust prone compared to their predecessors. I am old enough to remember how many British cars of the 1950s/60s/70s suffered extreme corrosion within a few years, often through inadequate painting from new and poor design with water trapped inside internal body panelling. The worst culprits in earlier years appeared to be Vauxhall, Ford, most BMC products especially MGAs, Jaguars and even the steel bodied Rolls/Bentley S1 range. As with your Fiat/Lancia example this too was down to minimising production costs and never mind the consequences, certainly in one particular manufacturer's case. No doubt too that inferior grade steel was part of the problem.

Nowadays it is commonplace to see otherwise structurally sound if rather tatty 10-15 year old volume production cars in breakers' yards simply because they are finally worn out mechanically where once it would have been the dreaded tinworm that finished them off even before their period engines and transmissions gave up the ghost.

Thankfully production cars since circa 1990 are vastly superior in terms of durability to what came before with very rare exception.

Getting back to the Delta. I'm told it will be possible to exchange the front grill units should you wish

[Paul Parker]

Everything that Paul says is true, but although I've never worked in the motor trade, my experience has been that dealers generally are pretty sensible and clued-up with regard to the cars they deal in. The perceptions of the car buying public on the other hand, can take many years to catch up, if they ever do, which makes me suspect that they'll shun these re-badged Deltas, no matter what they're called. As far as the UK is concerned, I suspect that anything with Lancia connotations will be almost unsaleable for years to come. For the last three years I've had an Alfa. Several well-meaning friends, one of them a Honda dealer, told me I must be off my head when I told them I was thinking of buying one. The car was a delight in every way though, a real pleasure to own and drive, it cost me nothing other than routine servicing, no faults or problems at all, other than a couple of minor trim items, all put right under a fairly generously interpreted warranty. The reactions of the Ford/Vauxhall/Nissan/Renault etc owning public on the other hand defied belief, all drooled over the looks, but almost all the comments I got were along the lines of "How many times has it broken down?", "Has it rusted yet?", or "It's depreciated over £100 while I've been talking to you", I didn't bother pointing out that their Ford/Vauxhall/Nissan etc has probably depreciated by at least as much in the same time. When I swapped it for a Mercedes last month, the MB dealer's trade-in offer surprised me, the car had actually cost less in depreciation than the Audi and Saab that preceded it, his comment was, "A few years ago I wouldn't have done a deal on an Alfa at any price, but these days they're as good as anything out there, probably better than many", which has been my experience as well. You try convincing Joe public of that truth though, which is what makes me think that the Fiat/Chrysler group are going to have problems moving Lancias, no matter what they're badged as.

The public's perception, as in the vehicle owner(s) is necessarily compromised, in most cases, because they've bought the particular car but the Trade cannot afford to be sentimental as they have to shift these things on one way or another.

A perhaps surprising result of the aforesaid improvement in product generally and the at one time seemingly endless increase in new car sales has been the relative devaluation of volume car residuals, after all there are limitless numbers of excellent used Focus, Astra, Golf, A4, Aventis etc., etc., on offer and bargains can be had.

Go back 20 years and more and second hand sports cars depreciated faster than the Euro but now they occupy a true niche market and some of them barely depreciate at all year on year once they reach a certain level. Most used Euro shitboxes regardless of how immaculate and well cared for are not worth much more than the proverbial cup of tea and ham sandwich once they reach 6 or 7 years old whilst the equivalent sports car(s) are frequently worth twice as much proportionately, sometimes more.

You can't get £5,000 for a 2002 VW Golf of any stripe but you can get it and much, much more depending upon make and model for a mass produced 35 year old sports car if it is reasonably sound, the world is barmy if you ask me and it's probably better not to.

[cheapracer]

In defence of Fiat very few cars built during the early/mid seventies escaped drastic corrosion problems.

1974 Dad purchased brand new FIAT 128 for Mum, driven weekday daily from Mornington to Rosebud Victoria, both seaside towns and parked all day 200 meters from the water at work and 1 kilometer from the water at home - sold 1986 spotless, not a drop of rust.

In 1980 I bought a 1974 Alfetta 1.8 4 door and I had it for 7 years, mostly in Mornington and later in Brisbane also close to the ocean - some very minor rust coming through the upper left windscreen corner, no where else.

Neither car had any special rust treatment applications.

When I look at my Fulvia 1.6HF and compare it with today's Lancia product I weep. What has happened?

They realized more mums will buy Lancias than emotional sooky old men?

[aportinga]

Desperation?

Yeah no ****!

The bail out was just plain stupid for this brand. Mark my words in 5 years all that will exist is the Jeep and Ram departments.

Everything else is just ****!

[cheapracer]

Mark my words in 5 years all that will exist is the Jeep and Ram departments.

Everything else is just ****!

300C's are plentiful in China with a sprinkling of Jeeps and are expanding rapidly as are all luxury cars here.

http://www.businessw...anley-says.html

[Paul Parker]

1974 Dad purchased brand new FIAT 128 for Mum, driven weekday daily from Mornington to Rosebud Victoria, both seaside towns and parked all day 200 meters from the water at work and 1 kilometer from the water at home - sold 1986 spotless, not a drop of rust.

In 1980 I bought a 1974 Alfetta 1.8 4 door and I had it for 7 years, mostly in Mornington and later in Brisbane also close to the ocean - some very minor rust coming through the upper left windscreen corner, no where else.

Neither car had any special rust treatment applications.



They realized more mums will buy Lancias than emotional sooky old men?

Yes indeed there were exceptions but many used Fiats, Alfas, Lancias, larger Renaults, Citroens, some Saabs etc., were beginning to rust within 4 years (in the case of one British marque in period already in evidence when delivered new to the dealers), or pretty rotten when I worked in the trade. You might reasonably have expected any car to fall victim to this if kept by or near an ocean. Please forgive my ignorance but is the climate, sea notwithstanding, otherwise dry in this part of Australia?

Another factor where corrosion is concerned was the fatal error of applying 'rust proofing' by spraying the underside of any given vehicle with the usual black, sticky stuff that eventually hardened into a carapace that over time split open allowing ingress of water which was then trapped inside the very structure of the car thus condemning it to the very thing it was supposed to avoid. So your Alfa probably escaped this fate because it was not 'rust proofed'. Incidentally surface rust appearing near windscreen trim or other areas abutting panel edges or separation of panelling with said trim usually indicates considerable corrosion as yet unseen.

A friend had an Alfasud during the early 1980s and it too was visually rust free but many that passed through my hands were fretwork lace and it seems most likely that it was a combination of variable quality steel and poor finishing that caused this apparent contradiction.

[retrospeed]

Yes indeed there were exceptions but many used Fiats, Alfas, Lancias, larger Renaults, Citroens, some Saabs etc., were beginning to rust within 4 years (in the case of one British marque in period already in evidence when delivered new to the dealers), or pretty rotten when I worked in the trade. You might reasonably have expected any car to fall victim to this if kept by or near an ocean. Please forgive my ignorance but is the climate, sea notwithstanding, otherwise dry in this part of Australia?

Another factor where corrosion is concerned was the fatal error of applying 'rust proofing' by spraying the underside of any given vehicle with the usual black, sticky stuff that eventually hardened into a carapace that over time split open allowing ingress of water which was then trapped inside the very structure of the car thus condemning it to the very thing it was supposed to avoid. So your Alfa probably escaped this fate because it was not 'rust proofed'. Incidentally surface rust appearing near windscreen trim or other areas abutting panel edges or separation of panelling with said trim usually indicates considerable corrosion as yet unseen.

A friend had an Alfasud during the early 1980s and it too was visually rust free but many that passed through my hands were fretwork lace and it seems most likely that it was a combination of variable quality steel and poor finishing that caused this apparent contradiction.

Even so, the fact is that Chrysler are about to launch what they claim is a new car that actually appeared in virtually the same guise, as a Lancia, at Geneva three years ago.

[kayemod]

Getting back to the Delta. I'm told it will be possible to exchange the front grill units should you wish

I'm sure that even today, Lancias have that certain "Je ne sais quoi", or whatever that is in Italian, that Alfas are still hanging onto by the skin of their teeth, but I think I'd be tempted to un-screw the grille, and bolt a completely different car onto the back of it, it's really just a common or garden FIAT isn't it?

[retrospeed]

I'm sure that even today, Lancias have that certain "Je ne sais quoi", or whatever that is in Italian, that Alfas are still hanging onto by the skin of their teeth, but I think I'd be tempted to un-screw the grille, and bolt a completely different car onto the back of it, it's really just a common or garden FIAT isn't it?

it was once possible to define a Lancia. A car built by engineers without financial constraint. Admittedly this was the downfall of the company but thank goodness for the likes of Jano who was responsible for the Lancia D Series Sports Racing Car.

[Paul Parker]

Even so, the fact is that Chrysler are about to launch what they claim is a new car that actually appeared in virtually the same guise, as a Lancia, at Geneva three years ago.

During my meandering across mainland Europe in recent years I have oft times seen a rather strange looking Polo sized vehicle with odd proportions and ugly rear light clusters that looks like something else disguised as something else with a Lancia badge.

What is it please?

As for this 'latest' offering it is surely no more a Lancia than the latest evocation of MG is anything remotely related to its famous predecessors. Badge engineering is in my opinion a heinous crime in automotive terms and such abuses are as we all know simply marketing ploys riding on the back of former glories especially when the latter day pastiche has no valid connection to or empathy with its inferred origins.

[retrospeed]

During my meandering across mainland Europe in recent years I have oft times seen a rather strange looking Polo sized vehicle with odd proportions and ugly rear light clusters that looks like something else disguised as something else with a Lancia badge.

What is it please?

As for this 'latest' offering it is surely no more a Lancia than the latest evocation of MG is anything remotely related to its famous predecessors. Badge engineering is in my opinion a heinous crime in automotive terms and such abuses are as we all know simply marketing ploys riding on the back of former glories especially when the latter day pastiche has no valid connection to or empathy with its inferred origins.

Fiat could switch the reputation of Lancia in a moment. I would suggest the company is used by Fiat to allow their apprentice designers space and freedom to take auto design forward with an attitude only known to the young.

[kayemod]

Fiat could switch the reputation of Lancia in a moment. I would suggest the company is used by Fiat to allow their apprentice designers space and freedom to take auto design forward with an attitude only known to the young.

True, and it would be rather easier to do much the same kind of thing with Alfa, if the will was there, which sadly it doesn't appear to be.

[Paul Parker]

True, and it would be rather easier to do much the same kind of thing with Alfa, if the will was there, which sadly it doesn't appear to be.

Little or no chance of original or radical thinking when R&D and production costs are by far the most important consideration of any company, its accountants and shareholders, especially if it can adapt existing platforms, components and manufacturing processes because anything else is too expensive even if they could afford it which they probably cannot.

[geoffg]

Little or no chance of original or radical thinking when R&D and production costs are by far the most important consideration of any company, its accountants and shareholders, especially if it can adapt existing platforms, components and manufacturing processes because anything else is too expensive even if they could afford it which they probably cannot.

Someone once posted a speculative idea for a Lancia mid-size sedan, a scaled down Maserati Qporte, with a V6 motor. Boy was it a lovely idea. As a Lancia owner and someone whose heartbeat rises for Masers these days, but wishes they were a bit smaller, this would really have hit the spot. There is a gap in the market, and its too bad Fiat hasn't taken advantage of it: mid-size classy sedan with performance, not German. Hope springs eternal.

[retrognome]

Someone once posted a speculative idea for a Lancia mid-size sedan, a scaled down Maserati Qporte, with a V6 motor. Boy was it a lovely idea. As a Lancia owner and someone whose heartbeat rises for Masers these days, but wishes they were a bit smaller, this would really have hit the spot. There is a gap in the market, and its too bad Fiat hasn't taken advantage of it: mid-size classy sedan with performance, not German. Hope springs eternal.

I honestly believe Fiat is missing a trick with Lancia. Why not use the brand as a development area and allow their youngest engineers/designers a free hand, maybe even in their spare time, to put their creativity to good use. The technology has to come from somewhere so why not stay in house. Two hundred mph. Sixty mpg. Room for four. They could even justify calling call it Integrale.

Edited by retrognome, 07 December 2011 - 11:57.

[BRG]

A full page advert in one of the UK papers today for the 'new' Chrysler Delta & Ypsilon models, saying that they are 'from the Land of Opportunity'. Presumably this is meant to imply the good ol' US of A? It seems to avoid mentioning that these are Italian cars. Or maybe Italy is the Land of Opportunity now - it certainly has been for Signor Berlusconi!

There is a decent write up for the Delta by Andrew Frankel in the latest MotorSport magazine, but he concludes by questioning why the car is being sold as a Chrysler rather than a Lancia.

[Charlieman]

Another factor where corrosion is concerned was the fatal error of applying 'rust proofing' by spraying the underside of any given vehicle with the usual black, sticky stuff that eventually hardened into a carapace that over time split open allowing ingress of water which was then trapped inside the very structure of the car thus condemning it to the very thing it was supposed to avoid.

Thankfully on many BMC cars the combination of oil and petrol leaks kept this underseal wet so that it did actually work. However it meant that it was an absolute pain to scrape off so that you could properly paint the underside...

Nobody has mentioned the appalling paint quality that was prevalent. I recall a friend's family buying a metallic silver Mk1 Escort (circa 1970) which lost its top lacquer in the first year and gradually adopted the colour of grey primer. At the cheaper end of the market, things have changed little. When looking at cheap second hand Fiats and Peugeots post-2000, I have seen primer showing through on door edges etc.

On a topical note, weren't there a couple of Lancia Beta Montecarlos racing in the HSCC 1970s sports car class this year?

[retrognome]

Thankfully on many BMC cars the combination of oil and petrol leaks kept this underseal wet so that it did actually work. However it meant that it was an absolute pain to scrape off so that you could properly paint the underside...

Nobody has mentioned the appalling paint quality that was prevalent. I recall a friend's family buying a metallic silver Mk1 Escort (circa 1970) which lost its top lacquer in the first year and gradually adopted the colour of grey primer. At the cheaper end of the market, things have changed little. When looking at cheap second hand Fiats and Peugeots post-2000, I have seen primer showing through on door edges etc.

On a topical note, weren't there a couple of Lancia Beta Montecarlos racing in the HSCC 1970s sports car class this year?

Ah. Ford metallics, Silver Fox, Blue Mink. I think only one Monte Carlo, That of Mark Oldfield, it got resprayed at some point. We have plenty of images at www.retro-speed.co.uk, just enter Lancia Monte Carlo in the search box, top of home page.

[cdrewett]

During my meandering across mainland Europe in recent years I have oft times seen a rather strange looking Polo sized vehicle with odd proportions and ugly rear light clusters that looks like something else disguised as something else with a Lancia badge.

What is it please?

Lancia Ypsilon

[bradbury west]

Lancia Ypsilon

OT a bit, ...which I have always found very attractive in that rich ivory white colour with brown leather trim.
Roger Lund

[retrognome]

OT a bit, ...which I have always found very attractive in that rich ivory white colour with brown leather trim.
Roger Lund

Imported an 'Ypsi' 1.3 diesel about five years ago which I quite liked, especially the Alcantara trim. of course, it was a Fiat but there was a Lancia badge on it's back side so it fitted in with my collection! I also sold it for almost what I paid for it so that was ok. the new Ypsilon is also badged Lancia everywhere in Europe except the UK. maybe Mr. Cameron had something to do with that.

[kayemod]

Lancia Ypsilon

Why?

[retrognome]

Why?

It was a joke.