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Aero nostalgia versus 'big is best'


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#1 Doug Nye

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 16:52

Pushing my luck here, but in respect for the Peter Twiss thread's proper purpose, I thought the aerophiles here might still be interested in these shots, from last Sunday:

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Much loved memory - Concorde 'Alpha Bravo' in retirement at Heathrow...

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Chicken-wired nosewheel bay on 'Alpha Bravo' - while she has been standing, parked out on the airfield, mice shinned up the undercarriage legs and colonised the old lady...since fumigated, and Jerry-proofed...

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If flying supersonic is too costly, fly five times the payload less quickly - This is Airbus's second prototype A380, serial 'MSN004' for the spotters - as I was about to find, there is more Formula 1-style technology incorporated into this gigantic baby than we could shake a stick at...

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This factory test A380 is almost totally untrimmed, just packed with water-ballast tanks to mimic passenger load and crammed with test equipment. This is the big bird's upper deck.

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And here's the lower deck...

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Test monitoring station, avec l'inspecteur...

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Bus driver's cab...already a long way above the ground.

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A380 main undercarriage leg - God bless racer tape. Tyre pressure - 218lbs psi!

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And finally - R-R hold a patent on this idea, the engine intake cone tip being in wobbly rubber which vibrates when icing accumulates and induces inbalance - whereupon the vibration cracks off the accretion and so de-ices it. So simple, eh?

All Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 07 September 2011 - 23:22.


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#2 Allan Lupton

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 16:57

This factory test A380 is almost totally untrimmed, just packed with water-ballast tanks to mimic passenger load and crammed with test equipment. This is the big bird's upper deck.

Things have moved on since my young days when apprentices were used as self-loading (and self-moving) flight test ballast.
Talk to your mates at Vickers about power-on and power-off stall tests on the Vanguard :(

#3 BRG

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 17:08

And finally - R-R hold a patent on this idea, the engine intake cone tip being in wobbly rubber which vibrates when icing forms and induces inbalance - whereupon the vibration cracks off the accretion and so de-ices it. So simple, eh?

All Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

You must have grown since I met you, Doug, if you can reach up to that part!

There is a difference between these two birds, if you live under the Heathrow flightpath. At about 7.10pm each evening, Concorde would all but shake my windows out of their frames. But the A380 passed overhead many times before I even realised what it was. Concorde may have been a beautiful thing, but it wasn't very sociable.

#4 Peter Morley

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 22:43

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This factory test A380 is almost totally untrimmed, just packed with water-ballast tanks to mimic passenger load and crammed with test equipment. This is the big bird's upper deck.

Posted Image

All Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN


I thought that was the interior spec for Ryanair's latest purchases!!

#5 Doug Nye

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 23:11

:lol:

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 08 September 2011 - 21:05.


#6 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 00:25

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From l to r, me, the late Pete Lovely, and Shane Davis going "on board" the static Concorde at the Boeing Museum of Flight near Seattle three years ago. A group of us from the Canadian Motorsport History Group joined Pete, Lotus 15 guy Bill Colson, and our docent and former racer, the late Ray Rairdon, at the Museum. The Concorde was smaller inside than I expected. Built for speed!

My wife and I also saw an Imax movie here in Victoria on the Airbus 380. Here are links to a couple of previews. Quite moving to see the reaction of the Boeing workers when it took its first flight:





Vince H.



#7 Paolo

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:36

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If flying supersonic is too costly, fly five times the payload less quickly - This is Airbus's second prototype A380, serial 'MSN004' for the spotters - as I was about to find, there is more Formula 1-style technology incorporated into this gigantic baby than we could shake a stick at...

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Memories... in 1993 I won a stage at Aerospatiale and was tasked with some other European aerospace engineering students with exploring a cargo version of this plane.

Market, performance etc.

We nicknamed it "the Beast".

We came from all of Europe, but the documentation was strictly in French... for Italians it was feasible, but imagine what it was like for Germans, Dutch, Poles etc...

Anyway, we managed to translate having Latin speakers in each group, and assistance.supervision from Aerospatiale Engineers.

It was a beautiful experience; the results of our very preliminary calculations (two weeks) showed that there was too much competition from old 747s.






#8 Odseybod

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 08:18

There is a difference between these two birds, if you live under the Heathrow flightpath. At about 7.10pm each evening, Concorde would all but shake my windows out of their frames. But the A380 passed overhead many times before I even realised what it was. Concorde may have been a beautiful thing, but it wasn't very sociable.


When we lived in Kew in west London, we were under the Heathrow fliight path every other day. Concorde was certainly noisy when taking off our way, but in a powerful rumbly sort of way. The ones that really annoyed were the early devices like 707s and Caravelles, whose shirek was literally painful to hear.

#9 Bauble

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 08:48

I remember visiting Duxford many (many) years ago and touring the Concord on display as a museum piece, and thinking that WE had a supersonic airliner in a museum while most countries had not even got one in service!!

Ain't it wonderful to be English!!!!!


ex-LAC bauble.

#10 xj13v12

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 08:58

I lived under the flight path back in 1989 and saw one of the prototypes at Duxford. At a recent factory tour of Airbus they said that EasyJet was buying an A380 and equipping it with 800+ seats!!! The theory is that the litres per passenger per 100 Klms makes it more efficient although I wonder at the lease cost of the plane. It is an efficient plane and would carry light fuel load for short European hops. Given that the craft was designed as longhaul I was surprised to hear this approach.

#11 Cirrus

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:33

The ones that really annoyed were the early devices like 707s and Caravelles, whose shirek was literally painful to hear.


...not to mention the distinctive VC10 "crackle"

#12 Odseybod

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:14

I lived under the flight path back in 1989 and saw one of the prototypes at Duxford. At a recent factory tour of Airbus they said that EasyJet was buying an A380 and equipping it with 800+ seats!!! The theory is that the litres per passenger per 100 Klms makes it more efficient although I wonder at the lease cost of the plane. It is an efficient plane and would carry light fuel load for short European hops. Given that the craft was designed as longhaul I was surprised to hear this approach.


Just trying to imagine the queues for the loos ...

#13 xj13v12

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:42

Just trying to imagine the queues for the loos ...

I was thinking that the passenger's loading and unloading time would be horrific. Gatwick is already a nightmare of queues. What happens when these things arrive? The beauty of smaller planes on more frequent flights is faster check-in and customs movements.

#14 DJH

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 11:44

I was thinking that the passenger's loading and unloading time would be horrific. Gatwick is already a nightmare of queues. What happens when these things arrive? The beauty of smaller planes on more frequent flights is faster check-in and customs movements.

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I prefer smaller planes too.

Edited by DJH, 08 September 2011 - 11:46.


#15 elansprint72

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 18:38

Better with two engines though.

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#16 Odseybod

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 21:17

Better with two engines though.

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Oooh, is that a Cri-Cri? Lovely device!

#17 red stick

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 21:24

I've always liked the look of the Concorde--more than any other aircraft it looks like it's flying sitting still, as if it can't stand being tethered to Mother Earth. An Air France example made a one-off flight to New Orleans back when I was in junior high and, living just four or so miles from the airport, my father took my brother and me to take a look. It's the only time I recall doing that for any jetliner.

Edited by red stick, 08 September 2011 - 21:31.


#18 elansprint72

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 21:27

Cri-cri.....

Indeed it is. I stole the photo off the web, being unable to find any of my own at the moment.

First time I saw one there were six of them(!) crazy Frenchmen flying in formation over the Solent; they had flown over the narrow bit of la Manche and were doing airshows along the coast. There is also a twin-jet version. :smoking:

Edited by elansprint72, 08 September 2011 - 21:28.


#19 biercemountain

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 22:07

The ones that really annoyed were the early devices like 707s and Caravelles, whose shirek was literally painful to hear.


Growing up near Atlanta GA there used to be a lot of C5As overhead due to the nearby US Airlift base. The whine from those engines used to make all the dogs in the area howl.

It wasn't painful to humans but was certainly distinctive.

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#20 RS2000

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 22:23

The ones that really annoyed were the early devices like 707s and Caravelles, whose shirek was literally painful to hear.


Brought up under the flightpath closer to the inner marker for 28R (which seems to have become 27R now - has the earth moved?) I remember the Caravelle as the quietest of the jets. It was also, even by modern standards, the qietest to fly in and could be landed almost without you knowing it (and all with a Comet front end on it...).
Most irritating: BEA Viscounts, probably on sheer wailing numbers.
Best sound: a "Super G" Constellation or "H" Starliner throttled back and popping and banging for a trans-Atlantic landing, one prop feathered from an engine failure somewhere beyond the point of no return. Don't you just love the sound of a Wright TurboCompound in the morning?

#21 DJH

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 04:49

Best sound: a "Super G" Constellation or "H" Starliner throttled back and popping and banging for a trans-Atlantic landing, one prop feathered from an engine failure somewhere beyond the point of no return. Don't you just love the sound of a Wright TurboCompound in the morning?

I vivdly remember, as a child in the 1950's, waiting for the KLM Super Connie to depart Sydney and head East, out over the sea. This event happened every Friday evening at six minutes past five. The Lockheed passed overhead at low altitude, heavily laden, climbing at full throttle. In the dusk of winter months, tongues of blue flame could be seen issuing from the exhausts. An amazing sight and sound, it was a bit like standing on the platform as a steam powered express train thundered past at full speed.

Edited by DJH, 09 September 2011 - 08:01.


#22 Doug Nye

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 07:58

Brilliant memory DJH...the gorgeous and graceful Connie, so prone - as you infer - to engine failures that it was nicknamed 'the world's fastest tri-motor'...

I have posted this before but I recall a wonderful TV documentary on North American fire bombers operating a converted Connie, err or maybe a DC6, which had four Wright twin-row radials. One veteran pilot was extolling the noise they made upon start up, rising to that cacophonous crescendo as finally all 72 cylinders were singing clean, which he said sounded like "...a Hell's Angels funeral".

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 09 September 2011 - 08:05.


#23 Pullman99

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:22

Great Concorde pics. The boys and girls at Manchester have been very busy of late with bringing "Alpha Charlie" back to life and with a serious technical intent of repairing previous damage. It appears, however, that there are related health & safety issues although I am not entirely clear what these are nor whether this superb work will be allowed to continue. Good luck to all concerned. It makes fascinating reading.

Manchester Concorde G-BOAC back to life

Edited by Pullman99, 09 September 2011 - 11:22.


#24 BRG

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 19:58

Brilliant memory DJH...the gorgeous and graceful Connie, so prone - as you infer - to engine failures that it was nicknamed 'the world's fastest tri-motor'...

I have posted this before but I recall a wonderful TV documentary on North American fire bombers operating a converted Connie, err or maybe a DC6, which had four Wright twin-row radials. One veteran pilot was extolling the noise they made upon start up, rising to that cacophonous crescendo as finally all 72 cylinders were singing clean, which he said sounded like "...a Hell's Angels funeral".

DCN

Possibly the strangest place to find a Connie is on Avenida Uruguay in Santa Cruz de la Sierra, in Bolivia. It is beside the first (inner) ring road and was seized whilst smuggling booze and fags. It is quite a surprise to come across it in the midst of a city, miles from any airport. You can see it quite clearly on Google Earth.

Connie in Santa Cruz

#25 philippe7

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 22:36

As a young soldier doing his military service in New Caledonia, I once found myself standing next to the last Neptune ( US built submarines hunter ) in service in the French naval air force when it was starting up on the Tontouta Air Base . The rattling of the two big piston engines was already a marking experience, but when on top of this the two extra jet-engines started howling ( yes, the Neptune had the weird distinction of being dual-propelled ! ) it became downright frightening ....

#26 fbarrett

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 23:45

About 1989 I recall flying into the airport that serves the Algarve in southern Portugal, and while riding a bus from the airport to the hotel, spotting a Constellation fuselage lying on the ground near the road. I was with a press group so couldn't stop and look. Has anyone else seen this? There's also a ex-radar-patrol Connie at the Topeka air museum in Kansas (or there was, 15 years ago).

I also recall going to the Denver airport once to see a Concorde that had flown in for exhibition purposes. It appeared much smaller than I had expected but extraordinarily graceful. I suspect that the aircraft was never viable here because of the high altitude (5,300 ft) and summer heat, which could have made take-offs difficult, especially with full fuel and passenger loads.

Frank

#27 Allan Lupton

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 08:47

About 1989 I recall flying into the airport that serves the Algarve in southern Portugal, and while riding a bus from the airport to the hotel, spotting a Constellation fuselage lying on the ground near the road. I was with a press group so couldn't stop and look. Has anyone else seen this? There's also a ex-radar-patrol Connie at the Topeka air museum in Kansas (or there was, 15 years ago).

I also recall going to the Denver airport once to see a Concorde that had flown in for exhibition purposes. It appeared much smaller than I had expected but extraordinarily graceful. I suspect that the aircraft was never viable here because of the high altitude (5,300 ft) and summer heat, which could have made take-offs difficult, especially with full fuel and passenger loads.

Frank

I think you'd find that it would have been impossible to get supersonic overflying rights to serve anywhere inland in the USofA, so airfield performance at Denver, always difficult despite one of the longest runways in the world, would have been the least of the worries.
Anent dead Connies, the Midway Hotel in Karachi had a Constellation fuselage, complete with infinitely long nose gear, as part of the fixtures and fittings when I had to overnight there in 1980-odd.
Just found this picture of it - supposed to be PIA's first Super-Connie:
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Edited by Allan Lupton, 10 September 2011 - 08:53.


#28 RS2000

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 19:24

As a young soldier doing his military service in New Caledonia, I once found myself standing next to the last Neptune ( US built submarines hunter ) in service in the French naval air force when it was starting up on the Tontouta Air Base . The rattling of the two big piston engines was already a marking experience, but when on top of this the two extra jet-engines started howling ( yes, the Neptune had the weird distinction of being dual-propelled ! ) it became downright frightening ....


Although still in Dutch colours (a significant number served with the RAF under MDAP), the Neptune still holds pole position at the RAF Museum Cosford.
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#29 DJH

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 23:01

We still have one flying Connie here in Australia. Looks lovely and sounds terrific. She's an airshow regular.

Edited by DJH, 14 September 2011 - 14:03.


#30 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 06:17

Here is a link to a Flight Clip of the Constellation from the IMAX show "Legends of Flight":

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Vince H.

#31 Pullman99

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 19:58

Tomorrow (Tuesday 13th September) is the 80th anniversary of Britain winning The Schneider Trophy at Calshot in 1931. A fly-past due to take place has been postponed until Wednesday at least according to the BBC. Website below for more information. Hopefully an update in due course.

Schneider Trophy 80th Anniversary website

Edited by Pullman99, 12 September 2011 - 20:00.