16 replies to this topic

[speedman13]

50 years today.

R.I.P

[Doug Nye]

Today, September 10, marks the 50th anniversary of Taffy von Trips's death in the 1961 Italian GP at Monza, it's also the anniversary of Ronnie Peterson's fatal accident there in 1978 and - much more happily - it's also the 50th anniversary of Phil Hill becoming the first American ever to win the Formula 1 Drivers' World Championship title. I just felt this should not pass unremarked.

DCN

PS - Good Lord! Speedman has just posted on the same subject, simultaneously with this one... At least Trips is not forgotten here.

Edited by Doug Nye, 10 September 2011 - 13:40.

[RStock]

Damn shame about Von Trips. Seems he was settling down and just coming into his own after being known as "Count Crash".

Always loved his helmet, my second favorite after the yellow Ferrari cap of Ricardo Rodriguez (though I believe some other wore it as well)




image from coolspotters.com which does not provide ownership info

[garoidb]

Today, September 10, marks the 50th anniversary of Taffy von Trips's death in the 1961 Italian GP at Monza, it's also the anniversary of Ronnie Peterson's fatal accident there in 1978 and - much more happily - it's also the 50th anniversary of Phil Hill becoming the first American ever to win the Formula 1 Drivers' World Championship title. I just felt this should not pass unremarked.

DCN

PS - Good Lord! Speedman has just posted on the same subject, simultaneously with this one... At least Trips is not forgotten here.

Indeed. I suppose it can also be considered the anniversary of Mario's world championship win, the second American to do so.

[Roger Clark]

Damn shame about Von Trips. Seems he was settling down and just coming into his own after being known as "Count Crash".

I can't remember hearing him called that, but he was a good driver and a generous supporter of German motor sport. Ferrari were particularly fortunate in the character of their leading drivers that year.

[ZOOOM]

Being on the west side of the pond, all I could do was to read about the events.
I STILL harbor ill thoughts of the old man refusing to let Hill drive in the last race of the season at the Glen.
What a finish THAT would have been.
I still feel cheated.
ZOOOM

[frp]

Indeed. I suppose it can also be considered the anniversary of Mario's world championship win, the second American to do so.

And of the first Brazilian, thirty-nine years ago. I've always remembered the date, having been a young fan of his at the time.

Andy

[Tim Murray]

Remembering also Giuseppe Campari, Baconin Borzacchini and Stanislas Czaykowski who died at Monza on 10th September 1933.

[Doug Nye]

Remembering also Giuseppe Campari, Baconin Borzacchini and Stanislas Czaykowski who died at Monza on 10th September 1933.

I was just thinking, aah yes, now that really was a black day...when I also thought, but at least they took no spectators with them. It has been an unforgiving sport, no doubt about that.

DCN

[David McKinney]

Remembering also Giuseppe Campari, Baconin Borzacchini and Stanislas Czaykowski who died at Monza on 10th September 1933.

And George Lawton at Roskilde on the same date in 1960...

[Nick Planas]

Having looked at the rather unpleasant newsreel shots of the von Trips accident, there is a remarkable similarity between how that began, and the Hamilton/Kobayashi 'incident' at Spa - with similar comments afterwards by his peers about whether Clark "should have tried to retake his place" or whether he should have "known when he was beaten by a faster car" and how von Trips was not expecting Clark to be there, etc etc.

Why do I mention this on this somewhat bleak anniversary? Because whatever else you may think about modern motor racing, I thank goodness for the work of many safety crusaders, not least of whom include JYS, Louis Stanley, Prof Watkins, BCE and Max Mosley among many others. Hamilton crunched harmlessly into an armco barrier and stepped out unhurt, while von Trips and countless spectators died, at what was probably a similar if not lower speed.

[David M. Kane]

Thanks for reminding us Doug. All of them are missed in this house.

[Twin Window]

PS - Good Lord! Speedman has just posted on the same subject, simultaneously with this one...

There can only have been seconds in it too, as his post has merged ahead of yours! Odd that - I don't recall another instance of that happening.

[Doug Nye]

Having looked at the rather unpleasant newsreel shots of the von Trips accident, there is a remarkable similarity between how that began, and the Hamilton/Kobayashi 'incident' at Spa - with similar comments afterwards by his peers about whether Clark "should have tried to retake his place" or whether he should have "known when he was beaten by a faster car" and how von Trips was not expecting Clark to be there, etc etc.

Yes Nick, that is a very thought provoking comparison indeed - Trips did move to his left onto the Lotus, just like Hamilton - and Clark did have nowhere to go, other than onto the verge, just like Kobayashi. And the Ferrari spun just like the McLaren, left across the other car's nose into the left-side 'barrier'.

DCN

[Gary Davies]

The comparison had occurred to me too. I mean no disrespect to any of the following parties but the concept of workload occurs in the case of von Trips and Hamilton. My experience of turning into a high speed corner in a Grand Prix is somewhat limited but I imagine it would get your full attention and similarly, I find it relatively easy to accept that in those circumstances the 'overtaker' may have concluded that the 'overtakee' had been dealt with. That said, it seems likely that the likes of Fangio or Moss might have had the capacity to keep the proximity of the 'overtakee' in mind.

I felt that a factor the other week was that Kamui allowed himself to get into a position which ultimately allowed him few options.

So to Jimmy... whilst I have read of the Monza accident I have never seen footage of it. With great trepidation I note that this was just his second season in Formula One and his first racing lap at Monza. Did inexperience get him into a difficult position?

Edited by Gary Davies, 11 September 2011 - 12:16.

[ensign14]

I blame the Italian organizers. Why was Monza on a 2-2-2 grid rather than the usual 3-2-3? When there were over 30 starters? Was it because Ferrari had locked out the front positions - and were always likely to do so - and gridding them in that way meant Ferrari had a much greater head start than normal?

Trouble is it meant that slipstreaming your way amongst the Ferraris at the start took on far, far more importance...

[Jack-the-Lad]

Being on the west side of the pond, all I could do was to read about the events.
I STILL harbor ill thoughts of the old man refusing to let Hill drive in the last race of the season at the Glen.
What a finish THAT would have been.
I still feel cheated.
ZOOOM

Yes, Phil's not racing at the Glen in his championship season was a big disappointment to this 15 year old (at the time) as well. He had earned his moment and was denied it.

I have always considered it significant, and perhaps unique to him, that he was so successful for so many years in such a dangerous era, and yet never experienced a serious injury as far as I know. It seems likely that this was due in part to his understanding of, and sympathy for, the equipment.