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Nürburgring. A few b&w pictures from my friend's archive


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#801 larryd

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 23:40

250 LM driven by de Siebenthal / de Bandeira. 1000 km 1966.

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Welcome back, Michael - I thought that you had run out of ammunition !!

:clap: :clap:


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#802 Duc-Man

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:28

Welcome back from me as well.

Gents, I have a little request that is partially OT: I'm looking for detailed(!) pictures (specially from the sides) of the Opel Omega 3000 that ran in the 24h race at the Nürburgring 1990! Would be great if somebody could help.

#803 Arese

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 20:59

Thank you for your kind "welcome back", gentlemen. In fact I did not have a lot of time to spend on the forum the last few weeks. Unfortunately it is also true that only a couple of Harry's shots are left - but I will post them, of course.

#804 Arese

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 20:40

I'm back with a few images that my friend Klaus Griese took when we were up at the Ring in the early seventies. Again, I tried my very best to scan them.

I wouldn't have to ask "who" for this one, but "what" and "when".

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#805 alansart

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 20:44

I'm back with a few images that my friend Klaus Griese took when we were up at the Ring in the early seventies. Again, I tried my very best to scan them.

I wouldn't have to ask "who" for this one, but "what" and "when".

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I'd hazard a guess at Strommelen in the Surtees, Nurburgring 1971.



#806 Arese

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 21:24

I need some help with this one. It is sort of a "barn find", because I found it in my father's archive, knowing that the picture wasn't taken by him. It's on the Ring, of course, the car is just on the way back to the pit straight, but I have no idea about the event, year, car or driver. Any suggestions?

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#807 Arese

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 21:32

It might be helpful to know that this one is from the same event (most likely). It's probably a Lotus 18, isn't it? I know that the scans are bad, but the slides were very dark, too.

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#808 Barry Boor

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 22:09

May I offer as a possibility the XXV Internationales ADAC-Eifelrennen F. Junior race in 1962. Run on the Sudschleife, it had a John Harwood in a U.2 #17 and Ralph Buschaus de Laforest in a Lotus 18 #4.

If the two pictures WERE taken at the same race I think that's the only one that seems to tally, although I'm not sure about the U.2.

#809 Arese

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 22:18

May I offer as a possibility the XXV Internationales ADAC-Eifelrennen F. Junior race in 1962. Run on the Sudschleife, it had a John Harwood in a U.2 #17 and Ralph Buschaus de Laforest in a Lotus 18 #4.

If the two pictures WERE taken at the same race I think that's the only one that seems to tally, although I'm not sure about the U.2.


Yes, the fact that the U.2 is entering the pit straight from the turn that we used to call the "concrete corner" shows that they were running on the Südschleife. In fact at that time the Eifelrennen was run on that part of the track. So I guess you're right, thank you for the details.

#810 bradbury west

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 22:25

Just beat me , Barry. I must look sooner.
Captain John Harwood, based in Germany, had what started as a mk2 U2 which he modified himself, essentially with a new chassis, in FJ guise. He raced on several European circuits, the NRing result being probably his best. he was part of the Keep the Army in the Public Eye, KAPE, scheme so his racing was fully sanctioned, using a couple of soldiers as mechanics. He benefitted greatly from the generous start money paid in those days, £70, £80 or even £100, for some events
Roger Lund

I believe it was the mk2 which had front end lift problems, until they just turned the nose cose the other way up........

Edited by bradbury west, 09 January 2013 - 22:26.


#811 scags

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:07

Just beat me , Barry. I must look sooner.
Captain John Harwood, based in Germany, had what started as a mk2 U2 which he modified himself, essentially with a new chassis, in FJ guise. He raced on several European circuits, the NRing result being probably his best. he was part of the Keep the Army in the Public Eye, KAPE, scheme so his racing was fully sanctioned, using a couple of soldiers as mechanics. He benefitted greatly from the generous start money paid in those days, £70, £80 or even £100, for some events
Roger Lund

I believe it was the mk2 which had front end lift problems, until they just turned the nose cose the other way up........



Another elegant engineering solution!


#812 Arese

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 15:15

Dressed in the style of the early seventies.

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#813 alansart

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 15:55

Reine Wissell with natural helmet padding :)

#814 Michael Ferner

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 17:45

Dressed in the style of the early seventies.


At least he's dressed at all!  ;)

Edited by Michael Ferner, 10 January 2013 - 17:45.


#815 Arese

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 20:55

Reine Wissell with natural helmet padding :)


Yes. And as you said before, the event was the German Grand Prix in 1971.

#816 Arese

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 20:42

Classic view on Klostertal section: cars coming up from Kesselchen and turning into the short straight to reach the Karussell on the top left (with the Nürburg in the backdrop). GP 1971.

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#817 Russell Burrows

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 23:20

Classic view on Klostertal section: cars coming up from Kesselchen and turning into the short straight to reach the Karussell on the top left (with the Nürburg in the backdrop). GP 1971.

Impressive shot.

#818 Barry Boor

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:23

Amazing that so many people were prepared to stand for hours to watch the cars go by 14 times.

#819 Giraffe

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:29

Amazing that so many people were prepared to stand for hours to watch the cars go by 14 times.


I would have much preferred that than to stand at Barcelona and watch cars go by 66 times on Sunday, Barry.

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#820 uechtel

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:34

I would have much preferred that than to stand at Barcelona and watch cars go by 66 times on Sunday, Barry.


Hey, on German TV they appraised the Barcelona GP as a 'really spectacular' race! (ok, admittedly, they said that on any Grand Prix I have seen in the last twenty years or so, using the words 'spectacular' and 'sensational' in alternation...)

#821 Duc-Man

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 14:52

Hey, on German TV they appraised the Barcelona GP as a 'really spectacular' race! (ok, admittedly, they said that on any Grand Prix I have seen in the last twenty years or so, using the words 'spectacular' and 'sensational' in alternation...)


I watched it...and fell asleep. Any questions? The only spectacular scene I saw was that disintegrating tire. Must have missed everything else.

#822 Gabrci

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 17:30

Michael, if you don't mind me touching your photos... :)

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#823 Stephen W

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:11

Amazing that so many people were prepared to stand for hours to watch the cars go by 14 times.


The Germans treated it as a holiday camping in the circuit, having BBQs and getting drunk. The motor racing was an additional treat. I have to say that I agree with the thought behind your post Barry - it was a long trip for just 14 laps! You also couldn't see that much of the track from the vantage points I went to BUT I wouldn't have missed it.

#824 Nanni Dietrich

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 14:46

They wouldn't have been 2nd if Little Art had had his way. In the closing stages, with all the main opposition out and the two Ferraris cruising two laps ahead of the third-placed Chevron, Merzario decided to ignore team orders, pulled back Ickx's 25 second lead and then overtook him after bumping him in the back a few times. He then ignored the 'BOX' signals for several laps, and when he did come in he was dragged from the car by team manager Caliri and given a severe telling-off in full view of the crowd, who loved it. Merzario stormed off in a huff and didn't appear on the podium. This very nearly ended his Ferrari career.


And at the time, the Italian press (Autosprint, better: its great director Marcello Sabbatini, the Italian drivers' defender :) ) wrote that Merzario had lost the race due to the "compliant drive" of his co-driver Josè Carlos Pace.

#825 Tuboscocca

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 15:12

Amazing that so many people were prepared to stand for hours to watch the cars go by 14 times.


Barry--for the same 'money' you could have 22 laps (the 500 km races) or even 44 laps ( the 1000 km races)..And both times it was rainy and cold...but I still think of the races...

Regards Michael

#826 Odseybod

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 15:21

Barry--for the same 'money' you could have 22 laps (the 500 km races) or even 44 laps ( the 1000 km races)..And both times it was rainy and cold...but I still think of the races...

Regards Michael


And for a novice keeper of lap-charts, it was Paradise (even if someone had a pit-stop, they tended to emerge still on the same lap as the leading car - made life so much easier!).

Edited by Odseybod, 15 May 2013 - 15:22.


#827 Giraffe

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 15:22

The Germans treated it as a holiday camping in the circuit, having BBQs and getting drunk. The motor racing was an additional treat. I have to say that I agree with the thought behind your post Barry - it was a long trip for just 14 laps! You also couldn't see that much of the track from the vantage points I went to BUT I wouldn't have missed it.


The ideal way to watch a GP, enough time between laps to down a beer or possibly two, bbq a rare fillet or ribeye & uncork a bottle of Pinot Noir! Of course, brought upto date, you would have the benefit of watching the remainder of the lap on a big screen too! :smoking:

#828 Tuboscocca

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 16:59

And for a novice keeper of lap-charts, it was Paradise (even if someone had a pit-stop, they tended to emerge still on the same lap as the leading car - made life so much easier!).



....and no 'undercut' in pit stop strategies possible...


Michael

#829 SEdward

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 20:01

I have only ever attended one race at the Nürburging, and it was the infamous Grand Prix in 1976. But I found that the waiting somehow added to the thrill of finally seeing the cars blast past. And I will never forget the noise that they made as they gradually wound their way through the woods to the point where I was standing. Quite haunting in a way. I have experienced similar exictement by traipsing out into the woods for the start at Le Mans. But once the field is spread out, that magic is diminished.

I'd rather see 14 laps of a Grand Prix at the Nürburgring, than 350 laps of some daft NASCAR race.

Like many of the fine things in life (champagne, chocolate, foie gras, sex), the less often you have it, the better it tastes... if you see what I mean.

Edward

#830 scags

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 20:13

I agree (about the chocolate)

#831 Arese

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 22:27

In 1968 Jackie Stewart won the famous wet race with more than 4 minutes ahead of Graham Hill. On a modern circuit this would mean having lapped the runner-up at least twice - maybe even 3 times. On the Nordschleife it was just half a lap.

The 24 h race will be on its way tomorrow, on a track combining both the Grand Prix circuit and the Nordschleife. Most of the cars will achieve lap times between 8:40 and 10 minutes - which is still great fun to watch.

#832 Arese

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 22:30

Michael, if you don't mind me touching your photos... :)


I appreciate that. :up:

#833 Arese

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 22:39

Another image of Rolf Stommelen

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#834 LittleChris

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 01:16

Another image of Rolf Stommelen

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Rolf - Much missed. But the lack of any form of protection from the chest upwards isn't !!

#835 Arese

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:39

This is a rare shot - but why? What are we actually looking at?

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#836 TJJohansen

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:44

This is a rare shot - but why? What are we actually looking at?

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Is this the hill Down through the bridge into the old Südschleife?

T J

#837 Arese

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 15:12

It is indeed part of the Südschleife what we are looking at - the last straight before the cars enter the Nordschleife again. Rolf Stommelen was actually practising on the Südschleife in 1971 and as far as I know this was the last time that a F1 car did so.

#838 DogEarred

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 20:07

I seem to remember, well certainly circa 1979 at least, that the track layout used was such that for club races anyway, the cars were let out onto the track after the start line. So if you had only 20-25 mins of practice you had to do practically a whole lap before your timing started. Which could be tight if you had to do 3 laps to qualify.
So the trick was, after doing the mile or so of circuit which then led back to the pit area, was to pull in to a track exit road off the straight at the back of the pits and do a U-turn & back onto the track before the start line, thus allowing your timing to start earlier (I'm not sure if this was officially allowed but it was routine practice). I know of one particular driver who intended to do this but was so awestruck at just being there that he forgot the routine & disappeared straight into the Nordschleife. Happily for him though, he still managed to 3 timed laps & qualify for the race. It was the highlight of his 'career'.

#839 Michael Ferner

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 21:09

Not a track exit, but the short "Betonschleife" (concrete loop) - and yes, that was allowed.

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#840 DogEarred

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 14:37

Not a track exit, but the short "Betonschleife" (concrete loop) - and yes, that was allowed.


Thanks for that! The feeling of guilt I've been feeling for 34 years is now gone! I can get some sleep at last... :stoned:

#841 Arese

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 14:02

I'm back with more stuff from my friend Harry Michelbach. Somehow a few of Harry's negative films had found their way to the back end of the bottom drawer of my desk from where they reappered just a few days ago. Harry was very happy to hear that and so am I. A real "barn find". Unfortunately most of the photos have been published already and I am not going to repost those even though the quality is much better when scanned from the negative. But there are about 40 images from the years 1965 and 1966 that haver never been published and seem to be worth posting. They have been scanned now, but need additional processing. So please be patient.

 

Here is my "teaser pic".

 

gp_d_66_001bthj9h.jpg



#842 marclaus

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 15:26

This is a rare shot - but why? What are we actually looking at?

klaus0237iesyzhu0w.jpg

Obviously Stommelen did several laps on the southern loop. In this shot you can see, that he is changing direction to the right. this is because he intends to enter a small connecting road (the entrance is only hardly visible here), which leads directly  the entrance of the southern loop by avoiding to enter the northern loop (sometimes is was necessary to choose this possibility testing a car, as the support races were held on the Nordschleife at the same time, drivers only had to keep in mind, that there were no marshalls along the dangerous 7km southern loop.

I have watches these (tests) often in those days, 


Edited by marclaus, 08 July 2014 - 15:29.


#843 mfd

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 16:26

They removed the front part of the nose for the race (Bonnier Cooper)



#844 Duc-Man

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 16:39

I'm back with more stuff from my friend Harry Michelbach. Somehow a few of Harry's negative films had found their way to the back end of the bottom drawer of my desk from where they reappered just a few days ago. Harry was very happy to hear that and so am I. A real "barn find". Unfortunately most of the photos have been published already and I am not going to repost those even though the quality is much better when scanned from the negative. But there are about 40 images from the years 1965 and 1966 that haver never been published and seem to be worth posting. They have been scanned now, but need additional processing. So please be patient.

 

Here is my "teaser pic".

 

gp_d_66_001bthj9h.jpg

 

Thanks for bringing this back to life. :clap:



#845 tiff1705

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 20:47

I am a (forgotten/unknown) Grand Daughter of Chris Meek, looking to find out more about his racing life and life in general...I can not seem to get much information from his family/friends and so have decided that asking motorsport fenatics (such as himself) is the best way to start as it seems that lots of people know him well or certainly did at the 'pinacle' of his career in racing...I hope! Can anybody offer me pictures, info...anything that may help me try and piece together some form of story....Please and Thank You x



#846 Arese

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 20:57

I am a (forgotten/unknown) Grand Daughter of Chris Meek, looking to find out more about his racing life and life in general...I can not seem to get much information from his family/friends and so have decided that asking motorsport fenatics (such as himself) is the best way to start as it seems that lots of people know him well or certainly did at the 'pinacle' of his career in racing...I hope! Can anybody offer me pictures, info...anything that may help me try and piece together some form of story....Please and Thank You x

 

May I assume that you have checked out post #198 ff of this thread? However, I do not have any other information than what I have written there, but I am sure there are quite a few people on this forum who can provide more information.



#847 Arese

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 20:00

1966 again.

 

gp_d_66_017niprj.jpg



#848 Arese

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 14:28

So there is Denny Hulme on the left watching what's going on here. Regarding the photographer on the right; he seems to be a driver too (not necessarily a F1 driver, of course). But if so: who is he? I have no idea and no other picture of him.

 

gp_d_66_006cdj1hgsx55.jpg



#849 mfd

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 16:46

Has the look of Mike Spence perhaps?



#850 larryd

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 17:15

Post #847  --  Pat Surtees ??