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Nürburgring. A few b&w pictures from my friend's archive


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#101 Arese

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 22:26

And if you're unaware, Arese, a perfect use for this fabulous, free tool for finding infringers:
http://www.tineye.com/


No, I wasn't aware of that. It seems to be an effective tool. Thank you for sharing it.

Edited by Arese, 20 September 2011 - 22:27.


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#102 E1pix

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 23:00

No, I wasn't aware of that. It seems to be an effective tool. Thank you for sharing it.

You're most welcome, and Thank You for sharing such great racing moments!

#103 arttidesco

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 23:10

Thank you for mentioning this. I had posted many of these pictures on 2 other forums before. In an early stage I had not inserted the "©" and Harry's name, but from the text that came with the images it was pretty obvious who owned the rights. I found a few of these pictures on the web since those days and somtimes I was asked by people if they could also post them - and I always confirmed. In case of Scarfiottis portrait, well, Harry wouldn't mind and so do I but I'd say it's not good style, in particular since there are only a handful of portraits of the great Italian driver available. On the other hand it is also a compliment to Harry's shot, isn't it?


Without wishing to cause you any undue concern, I take my hat off to you and Harry vis sharing these excellent photographs and I agree it is a compliment to have your work posted on Facebook, however I was quite shocked to find Facebook are quite agreeable to selling photo's not marked copyright to the press without the original poster let alone the copyright owner being aware of it.

#104 larryd

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 23:20

Without wishing to cause you any undue concern, I take my hat off to you and Harry vis sharing these excellent photographs and I agree it is a compliment to have your work posted on Facebook, however I was quite shocked to find Facebook are quite agreeable to selling photo's not marked copyright to the press without the original poster let alone the copyright owner being aware of it.


All the more reason for never getting involved with Facebook, as I never have, nor shall I ever (if that isn't too Irish!!) :stoned:

More importantly, and in common with everyone else, I find these shots absolutely magnificent. If I can see good b/w shots, I have no need of colour.

On the offchance, may I ask if Harry ever attended bike meetings at the 'Ring with his camera?



#105 Arese

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 07:51

All the more reason for never getting involved with Facebook, as I never have, nor shall I ever (if that isn't too Irish!!) :stoned:

More importantly, and in common with everyone else, I find these shots absolutely magnificent. If I can see good b/w shots, I have no need of colour.

On the offchance, may I ask if Harry ever attended bike meetings at the 'Ring with his camera?


Thank you, Larry. Your question made me smile because, yes, Harry attended at least one bike meeting with his camera. The venue was the 1967 Eifelrennen, usually an event where Formula 2 and motor bikes raced at the same weekend. This is why some of the images in Harry's archive show riders on 2 wheels driving along a wintery Eifel region. The Eifelrennen at that time was held on the Südschleife. I think I should explain something for the very few readers here who are not familiar with the track layout of the Nürburgring in the decades before 1983/84. There was the famous Nordschleife (most of it does still exist) and the Südschleife which is now history. Both shared 2 main straights - the pit straight and the back straight. When races were held on the Nordschleife the cars would turn to the back straight by going through the Südkehre (south turn). Otherwise, when racing on the Südschleife, they would drive the south track course instead of the Südkehre, and at the end of the lap go through the left-hand Nordkehre after the back straight and then cut short the Nordschleife by turning right into the concrete-paved curve that would take them back to the pit straight. The shot that you see was made right here. The barrier in the backdrop blocks the end of the long "Döttinger Höhe" straight that is part of the Nordschleife. You can see both the concrete pavement of the "Betonkurve" as well as the tarmac of the pit straight.

Larry, if you - or anyone else - should be familiar with the drivers and bikes, then I would appreciate your comments on these images very much.

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#106 Arese

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 08:59

It looks weird, doesn't it?

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#107 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 09:18

#17 Arsenius Butscher / Arga Neumann (BMW) - 3rd in sidecar class
#10 Billie Nelson (Norton) - 3rd in 500cc race

#108 Arese

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 09:33

#17 Arsenius Butscher / Arga Neumann (BMW) - 3rd in sidecar class
#10 Billie Nelson (Norton) - 3rd in 500cc race


Very nice to find the expertise here. Thank you! A couple more pictures with bike riders will follow.

#109 Arese

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 10:00

This is one of the really amazing shots that Harry made on that particular day. A group of bikers is waiting for the next group to show up. The reason for that is simple. As mentioned before, the pit area that we are viewing here was linked to the (lower) paddock by a narrow tunnel that would not allow traffic in both directions at the same time. So when one session was over there was kind of a traffic jam either here or there. The building in the center is race control, on the very left is the old grandstand with the Sporthotel. Pitstraight is on our left and the back straight on our right, while the photographer (Harry) is standing with his back close to the upper opening of the tunnel. All these buildings were knocked down in 1983/84.

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#110 Arese

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 12:17

Jim Clark was the hero of my childhood, so every photo that depicts the great Scot is a very special one for me - and so is this shot that Harry took at the 1966 GP weekend. Those gentlemen and the lady are just about to enter the tunnel, walking back to the paddock.

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#111 larryd

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 13:17

This is one of the really amazing shots that Harry made on that particular day. A group of bikers is waiting for the next group to show up. The reason for that is simple. As mentioned before, the pit area that we are viewing here was linked to the (lower) paddock by a narrow tunnel that would not allow traffic in both directions at the same time. So when one session was over there was kind of a traffic jam either here or there. The building in the center is race control, on the very left is the old grandstand with the Sporthotel. Pitstraight is on our left and the back straight on our right, while the photographer (Harry) is standing with his back close to the upper opening of the tunnel. All these buildings were knocked down in 1983/84.

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350s waiting to go out:

81 Hartmut Allner AJS 7R
115 Walter Sommer Honda
120 Werner Winhart Norton
70 Giuseppe Visenzi Aermacchi
102 Walter Kaletsch Norton
82 Wilhelm Atterer Norton
65 Billie Nelson Norton

More please?!


#112 john winfield

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 13:31

Jim Clark was the hero of my childhood, so every photo that depicts the great Scot is a very special one for me - and so is this shot that Harry took at the 1966 GP weekend. Those gentlemen and the lady are just about to enter the tunnel, walking back to the paddock.

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I think that's Peter Arundell just behind Jim Clark. Is that Hazel Chapman behind Colin? I've no idea if she had 'big' hair in those days. I wonder who the mechanic is front left, wearing Shell and Dunlop badges.

Arese / Harry - wonderful photos. I wonder if.....August 1967....a few days after the Grand Prix.....was Harry there taking photos of a fully-laden, yet very desirable cream Austin 1100 thundering (!) around the Nordschleife, father having fun, two sons holding on for dear life. No? Oh well, never mind! We scraped around the Karussel but didn't have the aerodynamic set-up to get the best out of Dottinger-Hohe. Too many suitcases.

Edited by john winfield, 21 September 2011 - 13:33.


#113 Arese

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 14:19

350s waiting to go out:

81 Hartmut Allner AJS 7R
115 Walter Sommer Honda
120 Werner Winhart Norton
70 Giuseppe Visenzi Aermacchi
102 Walter Kaletsch Norton
82 Wilhelm Atterer Norton
65 Billie Nelson Norton

More please?!


I'm impressed, Larry. Sure, there is more to come but I have to make it a little bit more difficult for you. :) Who is walking back to the paddock after the award ceremony? I don't mean the one carrying the laurel wreath, but the one who is walking a few inches ahead.

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#114 domenico

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 14:37

I think that's Peter Arundell just behind Jim Clark. Is that Hazel Chapman behind Colin? I've no idea if she had 'big' hair in those days. I wonder who the mechanic is front left, wearing Shell and Dunlop badges.

Arese / Harry - wonderful photos. I wonder if.....August 1967....a few days after the Grand Prix.....was Harry there taking photos of a fully-laden, yet very desirable cream Austin 1100 thundering (!) around the Nordschleife, father having fun, two sons holding on for dear life. No? Oh well, never mind! We scraped around the Karussel but didn't have the aerodynamic set-up to get the best out of Dottinger-Hohe. Too many suitcases.


The man in front is Lotus chief mechanic Bob Dance.

#115 Barry Boor

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 14:45

I don't think so. The man is wearing Shell overalls; Lotus were running on Esso.

Anyway, it doesn't look like Bob to me.

#116 Arese

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 14:51

I think that's Peter Arundell just behind Jim Clark. Is that Hazel Chapman behind Colin? I've no idea if she had 'big' hair in those days. I wonder who the mechanic is front left, wearing Shell and Dunlop badges.

Arese / Harry - wonderful photos. I wonder if.....August 1967....a few days after the Grand Prix.....was Harry there taking photos of a fully-laden, yet very desirable cream Austin 1100 thundering (!) around the Nordschleife, father having fun, two sons holding on for dear life. No? Oh well, never mind! We scraped around the Karussel but didn't have the aerodynamic set-up to get the best out of Dottinger-Hohe. Too many suitcases.


John, I'm afraid Harry wasn't there to capture these memorable moments in August 1967 with his camera, but I notice that you have a perfect memory of them. So do I when I think of my very first lap on the Nordschleife as a "tourist", driving a 50 cc Zündapp Mofa with 1.5 hp. It was August 1970 and Harry was there, of course, allowing me to share the pictures today.

And, yes, I am more than 95% sure that it is Peter Arundell walking next to Jim Clark, but not Mrs. Chapman on the left.

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#117 Arese

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 14:56

I don't think so. The man is wearing Shell overalls; Lotus were running on Esso.

Anyway, it doesn't look like Bob to me.


I agree. If the Lotus crew (Chapman, Arundell) are wearing coats with Firestone stickers on them a mechanic with a Dunlop sticker necessarily would not be a Lotus mechanic, right?

#118 Barry Boor

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 15:46

Right!

#119 pressman

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 15:47

The quality of this image is everything but perfect, but as a boy I was happy only to have some (very simple) camera equipment. Scanning a very small print didn't make it any better. Nevertheless, an interesting example of what you could see quite often in those days at the Ring: the driver on his way from the paddock to the pits, passing the tunnel that I mentioned before and driving a distance of up to 400 meters (depending where the garage and pit location was). Most of the drivers carried the crash helmet in their lap instead of wearing it.

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Hi
Great photos
Vic Elford Cooper BRM 68 German GP
Cheers
Steve

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#120 Michael Ferner

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 16:09

I'm impressed, Larry. Sure, there is more to come but I have to make it a little bit more difficult for you. :) Who is walking back to the paddock after the award ceremony? I don't mean the one carrying the laurel wreath, but the one who is walking a few inches ahead.

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Hans-Georg Anscheidt, of course.

#121 Arese

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 16:13

Hans-Georg Anscheidt, of course.


Of course! :)

#122 E1pix

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 19:09

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This must have been one Heckuva race!!! Has the Checkered been thrown yet?  ;)

What a great thread you have here, Arese! :up: [despite my wise cracks :) ]

#123 RogerFrench

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 19:50

I've seen some of these before, on the forums you mention, but I am certainly not tired of them! Thanks again.

#124 Arese

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 20:39

I've seen some of these before, on the forums you mention, but I am certainly not tired of them! Thanks again.


Hello Roger,

nice to "see" you here. Most of the shots from that frosty Eifelrennen 1967 have not been posted on those "other" forums. I am also working on Harry to really squeeze his archive in order to (hopefully) find a hidden treasure. So there is a good chance you might find something new in this thread.


#125 Arese

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:33

Yes, I know, the quality of this image should be better, but it shows both winning drivers of this race (who and when?).

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#126 Arese

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:36

This must have been one Heckuva race!!! Has the Checkered been thrown yet? ;) ...


That's what it was. I broke the lap record for Mofas with a time of 26 minutes. :)

#127 Barry Boor

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:40

Jo Bonnier & Phil Hill who won the 1000 km race in the Chaparral in 1966.

Edited by Barry Boor, 22 September 2011 - 07:42.


#128 E1pix

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:43

Yes, I know, the quality of this image should be better, but it shows both winning drivers of this race (who and when?).

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Jo Bonnier foreground, and.... is that Phil Hill? [year would be a shot in the dark, 1966?]

That's what it was. I broke the lap record for Mofas with a time of 26 minutes. :)

Congrats, your hometown must be so very proud. :) I know I am.

#129 Arese

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 08:38

Yes, Jo Bonnier and Phil Hill won the 1966 1000 km race in a Chaparral 2D. What a beautiful machine!

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#130 Macca

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 08:50

The mechanic to the left of Chapman and Clark is Cyril Atkins of BRM.

Paul M

#131 Arese

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 09:21

The mechanic to the left of Chapman and Clark is Cyril Atkins of BRM.

Paul M


Excellent! Thank you.

#132 john winfield

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 10:19

The mechanic to the left of Chapman and Clark is Cyril Atkins of BRM.

Paul M


Paul,
Thanks. I didn't recognise CA but I did wonder whether he was with BRM as I think Peter Arundell's Lotus ran with a BRM engine. Would Cyril have been working with Lotus as a result, or was he more a chassis man, at the race as part of the works BRM team with Hill and Stewart, and just happens to be in shot?

Edited by john winfield, 22 September 2011 - 10:21.


#133 larryd

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 13:19

Paul,
Thanks. I didn't recognise CA but I did wonder whether he was with BRM as I think Peter Arundell's Lotus ran with a BRM engine. Would Cyril have been working with Lotus as a result, or was he more a chassis man, at the race as part of the works BRM team with Hill and Stewart, and just happens to be in shot?


DCN, where are you??

 ;)


#134 Arese

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 17:49

Another shot of Joakim Bonnier.

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#135 Arese

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 17:53

Jo Siffert, very relaxed in the paddock. GP 1967.

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#136 RStock

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 19:29

Another shot of Joakim Bonnier.

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I love this shot! Over the shoulder and through the arms of another photographer. Something great about it.

And a most wonderful thread Michael! Fabulous pics! Thanks!

And thanks to Harry also! :clap:

Edited by REDARMYSOJA, 22 September 2011 - 19:31.


#137 arttidesco

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 19:50

Yes, Jo Bonnier and Phil Hill won the 1966 1000 km race in a Chaparral 2D. What a beautiful machine!

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Great pic as are all the others Arese, I wonder if Harry took a photo of the mandatory luggage space/packing case on the back of this car ?

#138 Arese

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 20:36

... I wonder if Harry took a photo of the mandatory luggage space/packing case on the back of this car ?


Good point. He didn't by accident take a picture of the Chaparral's "trunk", but there are 2 of 3 photos that show the mandatory luggage case of other cars that took part in the same race. The following is an example of it: the Porsche 906. At this point I need some forum expertise to determine who is inspecting the car. It is Huschke von Hanstein, sure, who is bending his knees in order to get closer to the engine bay. However the question is: who is the driver next to him? My guess is that it is Hans Herrmann, but someone told me there is no way it is the legendary Porsche driver.

In the bottom left of the picture: the famous luggage case.

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#139 Arese

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 20:43

On a sidenote; a portrait of Hans Herrmann (born 1928) that I took in April 2011. The event was the re-opening of the historic paddock at the 'Ring.

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#140 r.atlos

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 21:40

[...] It is Huschke von Hanstein, sure, who is bending his knees in order to get closer to the engine bay. However the question is: who is the driver next to him? My guess is that it is Hans Herrmann, but someone told me there is no way it is the legendary Porsche driver.

You are absolutely right, it is Hans Herrmann.

However, he is not inspecting HIS car as that was a 906 with injection (running as prototype). This here is the std version with carbs, thus a customer's car.

#141 Arese

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 09:36

You are absolutely right, it is Hans Herrmann.

However, he is not inspecting HIS car as that was a 906 with injection (running as prototype). This here is the std version with carbs, thus a customer's car.


Thank you.

Back to the Eifelrennen in 1967. Bike riders walking back to the paddock.

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#142 Arese

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 09:56

Ooops!

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#143 Arese

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 10:01

Driving up the ramp towards the pits

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#85 even at some speed ..

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#144 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 10:14

#65 Billie Nelson (Norton)
#85 Dieter Braun (Aermacchi)

#109 Armand Nerger (Honda)

#76 Ernst Heissenberger (Norton)
#262 H.G. Anscheidt (Suzuki)
#112 Horst Rauber (Honda)

Michael, did your father ever photograph away from the start/finish area, on the actual Südschleife?

#145 Arese

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 10:37

#65 Billie Nelson (Norton)
#85 Dieter Braun (Aermacchi)

#109 Armand Nerger (Honda)

#76 Ernst Heissenberger (Norton)
#262 H.G. Anscheidt (Suzuki)
#112 Horst Rauber (Honda)

Michael, did your father ever photograph away from the start/finish area, on the actual Südschleife?


Rob, most of the pictures that Harry took depict the start/finish area as well as pits and paddock. I will post a few pics (or even did so already) that were taken near Schwalbenschwanz and in the Brünnchen section. Unfortunately I do not have any images from the Südschleife, however, there are people providing information on that.

A friend of mine runs this lovely website (German only): http://www.nordschleifologie.de/
Please click on "Südschleife" in the menue and you will find pictures of the southern track including bike races

Another nice website is "Pro Steilstrecke": http://www.pro-steilstrecke.de/
Go to -> Mythos -> Südschleife

I am sure you will browse these sites for hours.

Harry, btw, is a good old friend. Unfortunately my dad never took me to the races; Harry made me discover the thrill of motor racing ...

#146 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 12:09

The Südschleife sounds so interesting, someone should write a book about it...! :smoking: :drunk:

#147 Arese

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 12:18

The Südschleife sounds so interesting, someone should write a book about it...! :smoking: :drunk:


Ha! You got me. :up:

#148 arttidesco

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 12:23

In the bottom left of the picture: the famous luggage case.

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Thanks Arese :up:

#149 E1pix

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 17:13

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For the briefest moment, I thought this might be John Surtees....

#150 Arese

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 17:17

Mechanics working on the Apfelbeck cylinder head of the BMW F2 engine.

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