Jump to content


Photo

Nürburgring. A few b&w pictures from my friend's archive


  • Please log in to reply
932 replies to this topic

#201 mfd

mfd
  • Member

  • 2,898 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 27 September 2011 - 22:04

Posted Image

Gerry Birrell in the Capri.

Fabulous captures of moments in time :up: Thanks for starting the thread & posting the wonderful photos :clap:

Advertisement

#202 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 27 September 2011 - 22:04

You couldn't imagine this would happen today: the rescue people carry the driver across the track while cars are still passing the scene.

Posted Image

The ambulance was a VW microbus. Meek was laid down onto the grass next to the track, obviously receiving medical aid, while 2 ambulance men were bringing the stretcher.

Posted Image

#203 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 27 September 2011 - 22:08

Another Chevron B8 is passing the ambulance while the stretcher with Chris Meek on it is pushed into the rescue van.

Posted Image

#204 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 27 September 2011 - 22:16

After these rather scary pictures back to a regular race scene from the 1967 1000 km race. The Mirage M1, driven by Jacky Ickx and Dick Attwood entering the Südkehre, the +180 degree right-hand turn at the end of the pit straight. Harry came pretty close to the action.

Posted Image

#205 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,016 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 27 September 2011 - 23:00

Another Chevron B8 is passing the ambulance while the stretcher with Chris Meek on it is pushed into the rescue van.


If anyone needs to put their mind to rest regarding his fate, here is Chris mid-pic on the left walking from the BRDC farm at Silverstone at this year's British GP. :up:

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2011-09-27

#206 scags

scags
  • Member

  • 405 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 28 September 2011 - 01:52

Great shots, both as photos, and as reminders of a lost era. thanks, and i hope you share more!

#207 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 September 2011 - 07:49

If anyone needs to put their mind to rest regarding his fate, here is Chris mid-pic on the left walking from the BRDC farm at Silverstone at this year's British GP. :up:

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2011-09-27


Thank you very much for letting us know. I knew he is still enjoying his life - and a friend of Ferrari cars. Perhaps the 430 next to him is his own.


#208 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,016 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 28 September 2011 - 07:54

Thank you very much for letting us know. I knew he is still enjoying his life - and a friend of Ferrari cars. Perhaps the 430 next to him is his own.


I don't think Chris bothers himself with 'everyday' Ferrari's such as the 430, that's when he's not on one of his exotic bikes! :lol:

#209 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 September 2011 - 08:10

Jo Siffert, Eifelrennen 1967

Posted Image

#210 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 September 2011 - 08:14

The same event: a view of the BMW garage. Note the size of the Apfelbeck engine.

Posted Image

#211 Duc-Man

Duc-Man
  • Member

  • 1,088 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 28 September 2011 - 09:45

Since I last looked this photo has appeared on the net clearly showing the backend of the 2D at the 'ring in 1966.


:up:

#212 mfd

mfd
  • Member

  • 2,898 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 28 September 2011 - 10:14

The same event: a view of the BMW garage. Note the size of the Apfelbeck engine.

Posted Image

Can anyone explain the exhaust arrangement? Two inlets per cylinder - are there also two exhaust ports?

#213 Allan Lupton

Allan Lupton
  • Member

  • 3,080 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:27

Can anyone explain the exhaust arrangement? Two inlets per cylinder - are there also two exhaust ports?

Yes: sometimes referred to as double-crossflow.
engine looks like this:
Posted Image

Edited by Allan Lupton, 28 September 2011 - 11:28.


#214 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,642 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:52

The original Apfelbeck cylinder head had a completely hemispherical combustion chamber with the valves at 90° to each other, in the arrangement inlet-exhaust-inlet-exhaust. This configuration was supposed to produce more swirl, hence better mixing, and also to keep the exhaust valves cooler as they were not next to each other.

I believe that the version of the engine seen in Allan's and Harry’s photos had a rather simpler pent-roof combustion chamber, but still with the inlet-exhaust-inlet-exhaust arrangement. Hence each valve needed its own separate port.


#215 mfd

mfd
  • Member

  • 2,898 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:57

The original Apfelbeck cylinder head had a completely hemispherical combustion chamber with the valves at 90° to each other, in the arrangement inlet-exhaust-inlet-exhaust. This configuration was supposed to produce more swirl, hence better mixing, and also to keep the exhaust valves cooler as they were not next to each other.

I believe that the version of the engine seen in Allan's and Harry’s photos had a rather simpler pent-roof combustion chamber, but still with the inlet-exhaust-inlet-exhaust arrangement. Hence each valve needed its own separate port.

Thanks for explaining Tim and Allan - I thought I could see four exhaust on the left side of the period photo

#216 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 September 2011 - 13:03

Another one for the bikers out here. I can read from the original scna that the the No.s on the bikes are #9 and #49. Again, this is the point of the track where the riders are heading into Nordkehre and back to the pit straight instead of proceeding towards Hatzenbach (in this case they would have passed the photographer on his right).

Posted Image

#217 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 September 2011 - 13:05

It does look slippery - and it certainly was.

Posted Image

#218 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,062 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 28 September 2011 - 13:42

Jimmy Potten of the Cooper team.

Thanks for posting all of these great images.

Interesting that he's wearing Esso overalls.

#219 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 September 2011 - 15:49

Jochen Rindt (Brabham - Cosworth) leading Chris Irwin (Lola - Cosworth) into Nordkurve. I am not sure whether these "snow"-pictures were taken during practice or race.

Posted Image

Advertisement

#220 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,113 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 28 September 2011 - 16:38

Interesting that he's wearing Esso overalls.

I know Esso sponsored Lotus in 1961 but I am 95% certain that they also sponsored Cooper at one time. I'm posting from work with no books to hand so I'll have to check with Doug's Cooper and Brabham books to see if he says anything when I get home (provided the Management has no other plans for my evening!)

#221 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,062 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 28 September 2011 - 16:49

I know Esso sponsored Lotus in 1961 but I am 95% certain that they also sponsored Cooper at one time. I'm posting from work with no books to hand so I'll have to check with Doug's Cooper and Brabham books to see if he says anything when I get home (provided the Management has no other plans for my evening!)

Cooper used BP in 1966.

#222 larryd

larryd
  • Member

  • 659 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 28 September 2011 - 17:05

Another one for the bikers out here. I can read from the original scna that the the No.s on the bikes are #9 and #49. Again, this is the point of the track where the riders are heading into Nordkehre and back to the pit straight instead of proceeding towards Hatzenbach (in this case they would have passed the photographer on his right).

Posted Image


Marvellous, Arese - Stephen Millard on a G50 Matchless leads Max Raab from Pianegg on a Bianchi twin.

:)


#223 larryd

larryd
  • Member

  • 659 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 28 September 2011 - 17:18

It does look slippery - and it certainly was.

Posted Image


Again, super photo. 26 is Hartmut Allner on a G50, ahead of Dietmar Volmle (54) on a Norton and 1 - Jack Findlay, also on a Matchless.

Can't identify the other two.

Does No 28 appear in any of Michael's photos?

That was my very good friend Hans-Otto Butenuth, who was entered on a Honda. Sadly, Hans died in August 1997, and I still think of him often - I would love to see a photo of him at this race.

Four years after these photos were taken, in 1971, Hans was German 500 National Champion, riding a BMW Rennsport - a bike 15 years old!!





#224 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 September 2011 - 18:20

Again, super photo. 26 is Hartmut Allner on a G50, ahead of Dietmar Volmle (54) on a Norton and 1 - Jack Findlay, also on a Matchless.

Can't identify the other two.

Does No 28 appear in any of Michael's photos?

That was my very good friend Hans-Otto Butenuth, who was entered on a Honda. Sadly, Hans died in August 1997, and I still think of him often - I would love to see a photo of him at this race.

Four years after these photos were taken, in 1971, Hans was German 500 National Champion, riding a BMW Rennsport - a bike 15 years old!!




Larry, it is a pleasure to read from your posts that you are enjoying the bike shots. I also appreciate how you deliver background information. I do not see Harry very often, but the next time I talk to him I will drop those names and I am sure he will recall most of them - and maybe add a few stories.

A little bit off topic: have you ever heard of Hugo Schmitz?


#225 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,252 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 28 September 2011 - 23:53

Originally posted by Roger Clark
Cooper used BP in 1966.


Wasn't that their first year with BP?

It certainly is odd that a team member would be wearing the Esso logo in that event...

#226 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,062 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:25

Wasn't that their first year with BP?

It certainly is odd that a team member would be wearing the Esso logo in that event...

I think so but I'm not sure. I'm confident that they did use BP because the negotiations, when Surtees left Ferrari, were between Shell and BP. I couldn't find any mention in Cooper Cars but it manes sense as the Chipstead takeover took place during 1965.

#227 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:03

Cooper were with Esso for many years before the Chipstead era, notably in the 1959 and 1960 championship years

#228 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:23

Another one of the pictures that are not made by Harry. This is how the historic paddock looked in the year 1978 at the Oldtimer Grand Prix - and it almost hasn't changed since.

Posted Image

#229 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:28

Getting ready to drive a Silberpfeil in the Oldtimer Grand Prix 1977 ...

Posted Image

Edited by Arese, 29 September 2011 - 07:28.


#230 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,882 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:42

Love that paddock shot. It takes me back to a long and fruitless day there in 1972.

#231 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 September 2011 - 12:43

I know this one is far away from being a "nice photo", but the car certainly is worth mentioning: the Lola T70, driven by Surtees / Hobbs in the 1967 1000 km.

Posted Image

#232 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,016 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 29 September 2011 - 12:47

I just love the official in the long leather trenchcoat & armband..."Can I see your papers????"...

#233 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 September 2011 - 13:05

I just love the official in the long leather trenchcoat & armband..."Can I see your papers????"...


Exactly my thoughts - and I felt the same when I noticed the crowds of police officers in those pictures. As a kid I didn't realize that. It looks like the, hmmm, 25 years or so before the picture was taken hadn't passed. :(

#234 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 September 2011 - 13:07

A better shot of the Lola from the roof of the pits.

Posted Image

#235 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 29 September 2011 - 13:40

According to Harry this should be Luigi Taveri.

Posted Image

#236 Russell Burrows

Russell Burrows
  • Member

  • 6,270 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 29 September 2011 - 15:56

According to Harry this should be Luigi Taveri.

Posted Image

Definitely Luigi, on, I think, the 5 cylinder 125.

#237 mfd

mfd
  • Member

  • 2,898 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 29 September 2011 - 16:07

Definitely Luigi, on, I think, the 5 cylinder 125.

Honda

#238 Bruno

Bruno
  • Member

  • 562 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:35

Scarfiotti


Yes. but do not star in race:

Gunther Klass/Ludovico Scarfiotti Dino 206 S "004"


#239 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:15

Harry's archive is not what you might expect to be: neatly arranged in folders or albums, assorted by events or dates. Instead he gave me a huge box and said: here you go, see you again. That's why there are a couple of images that I do not know exactly at what venue or when they were taken. This is one of them. From the trees and the coats that people are wearing I would say it could also be taken at the 1967 Eifelrennen, but I am not sure.

Anyway, a great photo with some well-known people in it (who are they?). An interesting detail is the (sliding) gate that you can just spot at the right edge of the picture. This is the gate that would be open in practice sessions, cutting short the way from the end of the back straight (on your right) back to the pit area.

Posted Image

Advertisement

#240 thomaskomm

thomaskomm
  • Member

  • 203 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:07

Thanks for explaining Tim and Allan - I thought I could see four exhaust on the left side of the period photo

: Hello, again! The Apfelbeck engine was very powerful, but very difficult the arrangement. Apfelbeck worked together with Siegfried Schauzu Bikedriver in the sixties and seventies. Another problem by the Apfelbeck engine was i had read in the book "Schnelle Motoren- seziert und frisiert" von H. Hütten that the engine had to big intake valves. But nevertheless the engine produced 260 hp/8500 rpm´s with the 2 ltr. engine. With 1,6 ltr. The engine hadn´t a wide powerrange like the Cosworth FVA. Alex von Falkenhausen: "The engine have very much power, but we haven´t a wide powerrange, this is the disatvantage"

Edited by thomaskomm, 30 September 2011 - 09:10.


#241 thomaskomm

thomaskomm
  • Member

  • 203 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:12

Hello Michael! I see Hubert Hahne and the ole´grandpa Graham Hill. Grandpa said Jackie Stewart 65 to Hill, they drove together the f1 BRM

#242 thomaskomm

thomaskomm
  • Member

  • 203 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:26

Exactly my thoughts - and I felt the same when I noticed the crowds of police officers in those pictures. As a kid I didn't realize that. It looks like the, hmmm, 25 years or so before the picture was taken hadn't passed. :(

Yes, it look like the ....... ! Great thanks for the photos, i love this thread and i hope this wasn´t the last.... My first visit on the Nuerburgring was 69 and i will never forget the atmosphere, the smell, noises, this was my golden days to watch motorracing. Love to see the Bike photos. Today unthinkable that Bikes and cars drove together in an event, in those days normal...


#243 B Squared

B Squared
  • Member

  • 3,223 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 30 September 2011 - 10:16

Interesting that he's wearing Esso overalls.


While it may be interesting, it does not change the fact that it is Jimmy Potton of the Cooper team in 1966.

Surely that era of racing was a bit more informal, I doubt if there were many regulation enforcers in that period which tracked down rouge patches on mechanic's uniforms.

edit: sp

Edited by B Squared, 30 September 2011 - 15:43.


#244 Julian Roberts

Julian Roberts
  • Member

  • 731 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 30 September 2011 - 10:37

Harry's archive is not what you might expect to be: neatly arranged in folders or albums, assorted by events or dates. Instead he gave me a huge box and said: here you go, see you again. That's why there are a couple of images that I do not know exactly at what venue or when they were taken. This is one of them. From the trees and the coats that people are wearing I would say it could also be taken at the 1967 Eifelrennen, but I am not sure.

Anyway, a great photo with some well-known people in it (who are they?). An interesting detail is the (sliding) gate that you can just spot at the right edge of the picture. This is the gate that would be open in practice sessions, cutting short the way from the end of the back straight (on your right) back to the pit area.

Posted Image


At last I get the chance to identify someone :) Jabby Crombac in the cap and glasses on the right


#245 john winfield

john winfield
  • Member

  • 1,049 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 30 September 2011 - 11:54

Another nice shot! Directly behind Graham Hill, can I just see John Surtees' face? And by the fence, well behind Jabby Crombac, that could be young Jacky Ickx.

#246 john winfield

john winfield
  • Member

  • 1,049 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 30 September 2011 - 11:58

While it may be interesting, it does not change the fact that it is Jimmy Potten of the Cooper team in 1966.

Surely that era of racing was a bit more informal, I doubt if there were many regulation enforcers in that period which tracked down rouge patches on mechanic's uniforms.


Roger, Brian

Like others I'm sure, I had a quick flick through Doug Nye's Cooper book and noticed an earlier 1960s shot of the Cooper garage forecourt, proudly selling Esso petrol. Bearing in mind Brian's point about the relative informality of the time, do you think Coopers had to change to BP at the garage pumps or would they have continued to sell Esso?

#247 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:15

At last I get the chance to identify someone :) Jabby Crombac in the cap and glasses on the right


Oh yes, thank you. That's the one I thought I knew somehow but couldn't identify. All of you are correct: Hahne, Hill, Surtees and Ickx. Jacky Ick is still walking in what we used to call the "lion's cage", a narrow walkway that ran behind the pits and was separated from the back straight by just a fence and later also by a guard rail. It was scary to walk there when a race was on (e.g. 1000 km) and dozens of cars were roaring past at high speed.

Between Hubert Hahne and Graham Hill there is Klaus Steinmetz, as (almost) always with his shades on.

#248 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:32

The 1968 GP was "my" first F1 race and I went to the Ring with Harry. So we both have got a few shots from that weekend. From the Saturday, I should say. The weather on Sunday, as you all know, was so dreadful that we never thought they would start the race and went home late in the morning. What an error! We could have witnessed history, but even on the Saturday it was bad enough. This image is from one of the Saturday practice sessions and the reason why I am posting it is not the quality (my bad), but because it illustrates the same corner as the one before. It is taken from a different angle - the left side of the back straight and shows the north edge of the race control building as well as the "lion's cage".

The construction behind race control, on the left of the pit straight, is the former Sport Hotel and grandstand building with the commentator's booth on the top. While everything was knocked down in the years 1983/84 this little booth does still exist and can be found today at the entrance to the historic paddock.

Posted Image

#249 Duc-Man

Duc-Man
  • Member

  • 1,088 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:35

Can anyone explain the exhaust arrangement? Two inlets per cylinder - are there also two exhaust ports?

About the Apfelbeck engine. Lancia tried to push the idea even further in the ECV Gr.S prototypes. I found a concept drawing of that Lancia engine:
Posted Image
That should explain the whole thing.

Sorry for drifting a little OT.

#250 Arese

Arese
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 30 September 2011 - 22:29

Another one of the images I cannot allocate clearly. As for the driver I'd say it is Peter Arundell, but I don't know when the picture was taken. On top of that: as Harry told me the shot might also be from either Zandvoort or Spa; tracks that Harry had visited 2 or 3 times.

Posted Image