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Nürburgring. A few b&w pictures from my friend's archive


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#251 Tim Murray

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 22:48

Arundell carried #24 at Spa in 1964.

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#252 Roger Clark

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 23:07

Roger, Brian

Like others I'm sure, I had a quick flick through Doug Nye's Cooper book and noticed an earlier 1960s shot of the Cooper garage forecourt, proudly selling Esso petrol. Bearing in mind Brian's point about the relative informality of the time, do you think Coopers had to change to BP at the garage pumps or would they have continued to sell Esso?

I don't know about forecourt sales, although John Cooper had sold the team by 1966, of course. The wearing of overalls in conflict with the cars' equipment was not without precedent. Moss and Brooks were frequently pictured wearing Avon overalls while driving Vanwalls on Dunlops.

It is quite possible that BP's support of Cooper wasn't sufficient for new overalls.

#253 bradbury west

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 23:15

About the Apfelbeck engine. Lancia tried to push the idea even further in the ECV Gr.S prototypes. I Sorry for drifting a little OT.


Dagrada did something similar with the Lancia Appia engine for Formula Junior
Scroll down about half way down on the right hand side.
http://www.viva-lanc...grada/index.htm
Roger Lund

#254 r.atlos

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 23:21

Back to the group of people walking back from the pits: The gentleman between Hahne and Hill is Klaus Steinmetz, in those days already something like Race Director or so at BMW after his days with Abarth.

#255 r.atlos

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 23:23

... and the person hidden behind Graham: My guess is that it is Kurt Ahrens.

#256 thirtytwo

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 03:12

... and the person hidden behind Graham: My guess is that it is Kurt Ahrens.


I thought John Surtees

#257 Barry Boor

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 05:49

Strange that Peter Arundell's helmet looks so dark in that picture. You'd think he had borrowed Jim's.

#258 E1pix

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 06:07

Nice to see you here, Barry! :)

#259 Arese

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:41

... and the person hidden behind Graham: My guess is that it is Kurt Ahrens.


A bit of the details get lost when you scan the image and resize it to 800 p, but from the original paper print I can say it is definitely John Surtees.

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#260 thomaskomm

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 08:55

@Duc-man: Great thanks for the drawing. I have never seen this drawing until yet the original Apfelbeck idea! Greets :)

#261 thomaskomm

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 09:10

Graham Hill had to drive the almost undrivable H-16 BRM and Jacky Ickx had the terrible accident with John Taylor in the first round in Quiddelbacher Höhe, where Taylor died a few days later i believe. The Weather was bad and it was a historic race for the new Formula Vee, which won by Günter Huber on Austro-Vee after Beat Fehr was disqualified on his ZARP.

Edited by thomaskomm, 01 October 2011 - 09:13.


#262 mfd

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 09:27

Graham Hill had to drive the almost undrivable H-16 BRM and Jacky Ickx had the terrible accident with John Taylor in the first round in Quiddelbacher Höhe, where Taylor died a few days later i believe. The Weather was bad and it was a historic race for the new Formula Vee, which won by Günter Huber on Austro-Vee after Beat Fehr was disqualified on his ZARP.

So do you think it's the GP in 1966?


#263 Arese

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 10:29

One last shot of a Ford GT40 with the rear clam taken off. It's always amazing to see how "laid-back" the atmosphere was back in those days. 1000 km 1966.

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Edited by Arese, 01 October 2011 - 10:30.


#264 mfd

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 10:43

One last shot of a Ford GT40 with the rear clam taken off. It's always amazing to see how "laid-back" the atmosphere was back in those days. 1000 km 1966.

That could be one of the Essex Wire cars, the detail on the roof is the same - either Whitmore / Neerpasch or Revson / Scott.

Edited by mfd, 01 October 2011 - 11:05.


#265 Arese

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 17:19

That could be one of the Essex Wire cars, the detail on the roof is the same - either Whitmore / Neerpasch or Revson / Scott.


I don't know which one it is, but speaking of Sir John Whitmore ... here he is with Jochen Rindt before the start of the race.

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#266 Alan Cox

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 18:50

I don't know which one it is, but speaking of Sir John Whitmore ... here he is with Jochen Rindt before the start of the race.

The helmet on the roof doesn't remind me of either Skip Scott's or Peter Revson's, nor Sir John Whitmore. Can't say I know what Jochen Neerpasch's was like.

#267 E1pix

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 19:10

Definitely not Revson's, nor Scott's unless he deviated his scheme.... but could be Neerpasch's — hard to tell here:
http://www.p-3motors...10/display/1586

#268 mfd

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 19:46

I don't know which one it is, but speaking of Sir John Whitmore ... here he is with Jochen Rindt before the start of the race.

Pretty cool - time of their lives? I wouldn't dismiss it being either a Revson helmet (or Whitmore's) as they did change their designs...but having checked it is Skip Scott's helmet
http://www.mikehaywa...t-ford-gt40.htm

Edited by mfd, 01 October 2011 - 19:54.


#269 Arese

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 22:49

I know where it is - at the end of the backstraight - but that is all.

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#270 E1pix

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 22:59

Incredible.... I needn't say anything else.

#271 elansprint72

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 23:16

Another one of the images I cannot allocate clearly. As for the driver I'd say it is Peter Arundell, but I don't know when the picture was taken. On top of that: as Harry told me the shot might also be from either Zandvoort or Spa; tracks that Harry had visited 2 or 3 times.

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For me, this is the perfect photographer's shot in possibly the best thread from the last year; apart from the Silver Arrows one, that is. :smoking:


#272 E1pix

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 23:21

Arm Wrestle?  ;) :wave:

Yes, so many great shots here! Amazing.

I agree with your thread sentiments, except for maybe my "Pippa Mann" thread which had 0 replies. :lol:


#273 Russell Burrows

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 13:43

I know where it is - at the end of the backstraight - but that is all.

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The Anglo Swiss pairing of Fritz Scheidegger and John Robinson. Fritz, who who was a double world champ, met his end and Mallory Park a couple of years after this shot.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 02 October 2011 - 13:48.


#274 mfd

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 16:30

...except for maybe my "Pippa Mann" thread which had 0 replies. :lol:

I'd have answered if I'd known about it ;)

Edited by mfd, 02 October 2011 - 16:31.


#275 LittleChris

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 19:57

For me, this is the perfect photographer's shot in possibly the best thread from the last year; apart from the Silver Arrows one, that is. :smoking:


Great photo. I think it's taken from the inside of La Source given the positioning of Arundells left hand on the wheel and the attitude of his head ( plus that wall in the background looks familiar)


#276 Arese

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:41

I don't think it is a bold statement to say they are riding on a BMW and in case it was the 1967 Eifelrennen they would be Arsenius Butscher and Arga Neumann, but I am not sure at all.

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#277 Arese

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:45

I made this portrait in 1978 at the Oldtimer Grand Prix. Somehow off-topic but I've wondered for so many years whether or not he's a former, maybe well-known, bike rider. This forum might certainly find an answer.

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#278 Arese

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:53

In 1966 Phil Hill and Joakim Bonnier had won the 1000 km race in their Chaparral 2D. The following year Hill shared a 2F with Mike Spence, but they did not finish the race. Here he is checking the car before the start.

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Edited by Arese, 03 October 2011 - 10:04.


#279 Arese

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 12:21

I didn't resize this one to less than 850 p in order to allow better identification of cars and drivers. Zandvoort 1964.

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#280 Tim Murray

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 13:09

(Jim Clark been and gone) followed by G Hill, Gurney, Arundell, Surtees, P Hill (#22), McLaren, Ginther, Brabham (#14), Amon (#10) and Hailwood (#12).

#281 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 13:22

I don't think it is a bold statement to say they are riding on a BMW and in case it was the 1967 Eifelrennen they would be Arsenius Butscher and Arga Neumann, but I am not sure at all.

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Could be Butscher or perhaps Kolle ?


#282 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 13:26

I made this portrait in 1978 at the Oldtimer Grand Prix. Somehow off-topic but I've wondered for so many years whether or not he's a former, maybe well-known, bike rider. This forum might certainly find an answer.

Posted Image

Yes, he looks the part and somehow familiar but I can't ID him I'm afraid.

#283 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 16:01

I don't think it is a bold statement to say they are riding on a BMW and in case it was the 1967 Eifelrennen they would be Arsenius Butscher and Arga Neumann, but I am not sure at all.


Could be Butscher or perhaps Kolle ?


Michael, you posted that very picture earlier in the thread, post #105...! Riders identified in post #107. :wave:

#284 Duc-Man

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 17:29

In 1966 Phil Hill and Joakim Bonnier had won the 1000 km race in their Chaparral 2D. The following year Hill shared a 2F with Mike Spence, but they did not finish the race. Here he is checking the car before the start.

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Yeah, they got disqualified for taking the gate (see post #239) between the backstraight and the pits during the race... :drunk:

#285 Arese

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 18:05

Michael, you posted that very picture earlier in the thread, post #105...! Riders identified in post #107. :wave:


Oooops, I knew this would happen one day. I am sorry about the duplicate posting, but the reason is quite simple. The number of images is picking up very quickly, since I always have to make an additional resize copy to get it right for this forum. Some of the images also look quite similar, because Harry made a couple of shots from the same position. Sometimes he shot the same car or bike a couple of times but I decided not to select but to post everything - which on the upside means I've got enough stuff for the next couple of weeks. I hope you don't mind and still enjoy the photos.


#286 Arese

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 18:13

Yeah, they got disqualified for taking the gate (see post #239) between the backstraight and the pits during the race... :drunk:


I am not sure if you are serious with that. According to "Auto-Jahr" ("automobile year"), issue #15 Phil Hill came into the pits after lap 10 (instead of lap 11 as they had planned) because he was aware of a sound he didn't like, coming from the transmission. When Mike Spence continued the transmission let him down right in the beginning of the lap, at the end of the backstraight.

#287 Tim Murray

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 18:40

When Mike Spence continued the transmission let him down right in the beginning of the lap, at the end of the backstraight.

This agrees with DSJ's report in Motor Sport magazine, which says that Spence knew the car was finished before he got to the South Curve, and drove slowly back behind the pits with the car making a dreadful 'mangling' noise. Presumably he would have used the 'gate' to get back to the pits and been officially disqualified, although this was not the reason for the car's retirement. The same thing happened to Jo Siffert in the 1971 German GP.

#288 Arese

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 19:31

Bruce McLaren shows how the "move through the gate" worked as he has slowed down before he reached the Nordkehre and turns right into the pit area. Practice session, GP 1967. Note the petrol pump.

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#289 Arese

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 07:06

The 330 P3 Spyder of Surtees/Parkes, polesitter in the 1966 1000 km.

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#290 Arese

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 09:26

I am watching while Jochen Rindt is writing autographs (GP 1968).

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#291 thirtytwo

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 11:00

Yes, he looks the part and somehow familiar but I can't ID him I'm afraid.


Jason Plato's great grandad?

#292 Duc-Man

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 14:51

I am not sure if you are serious with that. According to "Auto-Jahr" ("automobile year"), issue #15 Phil Hill came into the pits after lap 10 (instead of lap 11 as they had planned) because he was aware of a sound he didn't like, coming from the transmission. When Mike Spence continued the transmission let him down right in the beginning of the lap, at the end of the backstraight.



This agrees with DSJ's report in Motor Sport magazine, which says that Spence knew the car was finished before he got to the South Curve, and drove slowly back behind the pits with the car making a dreadful 'mangling' noise. Presumably he would have used the 'gate' to get back to the pits and been officially disqualified, although this was not the reason for the car's retirement. The same thing happened to Jo Siffert in the 1971 German GP.


I can't remember where I read this. It went along the lines that the car got technical problems after it passed the pit and got disqualified for using 'the gate'.
So thank you for explaining what happened. I just checked my Chaparral books again and they both say only that the car didn't finish due to transmission failure.
BTW: If they could have fixed the gearbox, would they have been allowed to re-enter the race?

#293 Arese

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 15:09

...
BTW: If they could have fixed the gearbox, would they have been allowed to re-enter the race?


I am not sure but I would say so - yes. The reason why I am assuming this is: in the previous year the Ferrari P3 Spyder with Surtees/Parkes was leading from the beginning but after a while they came in all sorts of trouble and mechanical failures. I can't remember how often they came into the pits for having something fixed, but they continued until the car finally broke down. I was sitting in the Südkehre and it was my first ever race to watch at the Ring - very disappointing to see my favourite car struggle that much.

Edit: whatever they would have fixed at the Chaparral, it should have been done in the pits, of course.

Edited by Arese, 04 October 2011 - 15:10.


#294 Duc-Man

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 15:30

As we know: the Nürburgring is in a very strange part of the world where fuelpumps, shocks or even whole gearboxes grow on trees...  ;)

Per chance: do you or Harry have any pictures from the Interserie? Specially of the BRM 154/167 or of the Steinmetz Jumbo. There is barely anything of those cars around and I know they raced at the Ring.

I'm very thankful that you're posting those great photos. Wish I could have been there at the time.

#295 Arese

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 21:25

...

Per chance: do you or Harry have any pictures from the Interserie? Specially of the BRM 154/167 or of the Steinmetz Jumbo. There is barely anything of those cars around and I know they raced at the Ring.

...


Unfortunately I don't. I know that Harry never visited one of the Interserie races, but I did - without a camera. :(



#296 Arese

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 21:26

Jo Siffert in the BMW F2, Eifelrennen 1967.

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#297 Arese

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 21:34

... or of the Steinmetz Jumbo. ...


You might want to try this:

(fast forward 0:45' in)


#298 Arese

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 06:34

So typical for the Eifel region: rain!

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Edited by Arese, 05 October 2011 - 06:34.


#299 Arese

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 06:40

Cars lining up before the start of a Formula V race in April 1967. Old Sport Hotel with grandstands and commentator booth on top.

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#300 Arese

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 06:43

In the paddock, GP 1966.

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