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#13801 kosmos

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:21

Car was not horrible in my opinion. I'm disappointed by FA last lap,but he can't do miracles every time..


Why?.

Mark Webber 1:36.290
Sergio Perez 1:36.524
Fernando Alonso 1:36.622


Maybe Perez position was possible, but that's all. Far from disappointing, and we don't know if he did his best and that lap time was the best possible today.

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#13802 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:25

Wow. So not looking as bleak as before, and with original exhausts coming next race maybe, the comeback is on. Even when the lap was at the wrong time, Fernando still was 0.4s closer to pole than in Sepang. Although of course his KERS wasn't working, but they have an excuse here as well.

:clap:

#13803 BernieEc

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:28

I think the cold conditions played a part as well.

#13804 Mackey

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:31

Wow. So not looking as bleak as before, and with original exhausts coming next race maybe, the comeback is on. Even when the lap was at the wrong time, Fernando still was 0.4s closer to pole than in Sepang. Although of course his KERS wasn't working, but they have an excuse here as well.

:clap:


I don´t think so... Marc Gene said during FP3 that Ferrari is getting rid of the Acer ducts and going for a Sauber-like exhausts.


#13805 MoP

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:35

I don´t think so... Marc Gene said during FP3 that Ferrari is getting rid of the Acer ducts and going for a Sauber-like exhausts.

did he say which race?

#13806 magicon

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:35

might not be a bad idea to copy sauber. kobayashi was 0.9 secs faster, wow.

#13807 Mackey

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:36

did he say which race?


It´s the Barcelona update IIRC.


#13808 TheBunk

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:37

I don´t think so... Marc Gene said during FP3 that Ferrari is getting rid of the Acer ducts and going for a Sauber-like exhausts.


Interesting!

#13809 MoP

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:41

It´s the Barcelona update IIRC.


Weird, cause I'm pretty sure Dom. said that they'll try to make the original solution work at the mugello test and therefore would use those in spain...

#13810 Mackey

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:44

Weird, cause I'm pretty sure Dom. said that they'll try to make the original solution work at the mugello test and therefore would use those in spain...


Yeah, I was surprised when Gene said that, but I don´t think he is making things up.


#13811 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:49

Well maybe they will incorporate things from both solutions.

#13812 RedOne

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:51

I don´t think so... Marc Gene said during FP3 that Ferrari is getting rid of the Acer ducts and going for a Sauber-like exhausts.


So that Ferruber story was true afterall. Aslong as it works I say good, that Sauber is a good car!

#13813 TheBunk

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:52

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/98817

Alonso hints Ferrari kind of kisses 2012 title goodbye.



#13814 RedOne

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:54

Well maybe they will incorporate things from both solutions.


Why would they do that when there original solution doesn't even work..

#13815 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:57

Why would they do that when there original solution doesn't even work..

Well Stefano and Fry said they got it working, and could appear at next race.

#13816 RedOne

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:03

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/98817

Alonso hints Ferrari kind of kisses 2012 title goodbye.


You got that wrong, the jist of it is that they will see how far the gap is after all the problems have been fixed to see if the car is really strong enough to fight for the championship. If its still big then it will be difficult if it's quite small then we can.

#13817 RedOne

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:07

Well Stefano and Fry said they got it working, and could appear at next race.


Got what working, the acer duct idea that Marc Gene said there getting rid off? Or did they mean they got a Sauber style solution working?

Have you got a link or quote please?

Edited by RedOne, 14 April 2012 - 10:10.


#13818 Mackey

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:09

You got that wrong, the jist of it is that they will see how far the gap is after all the problems have been fixed to see if the car is really strong enough to fight for the championship. If its still big then it will be difficult if it's quite small then we can.


And how long will it take to solve all the problems? Because they know those problems since the first Jerez test, and 2 months have passed since then.


#13819 RedOne

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:14

And how long will it take to solve all the problems? Because they know those problems since the first Jerez test, and 2 months have passed since then.


Don't ask me I'm just a messenger, go ask Ferrari on twitter.

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#13820 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:23

Got what working, the acer duct idea that Marc Gene said there getting rid off? Or did they mean they got a Sauber style solution working?

Have you got a link or quote please?


Domenicali said: "At the moment the exhaust we have is the one we had in Malaysia. So we will just have to work with it and see if at the next race we are able to swap back to the other one.


Link

That phrase switching back means the one used before this current one doesn't it?

Anyways, I know the car is a bad one, but what is making me happy right now is progress. Every race Ferrari gets a couple tenths closer to McLaren. Look at RedBull instead, they don't look like they are making as much progress, although they are starting better off. But a few races and if these improvements keep coming, and working, then they should be competitive in no time. :up:

#13821 ForzaGTR

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:25

I feel sorry for Fernando.

#13822 zapppa

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:47

Why?.



Maybe Perez position was possible, but that's all. Far from disappointing, and we don't know if he did his best and that lap time was the best possible today.

in sector 2 Alonso was slow than Q1 with medium tyres..maybe he did a mistake

And Koba did 35.7 after Fernando's lap

Edited by zapppa, 14 April 2012 - 10:53.


#13823 Gintonious

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:55

This is getting harder to watch, it really is a very tough time for Ferrari, and I only hope that they can get the car where it needs to be soon, but I do fear that it will happen too late.

The only hope is that there is no clear team that will win each race and they trip over each other, that and Ferrari get their act together and find proper solutions with the car.

#13824 TheBunk

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:57

You got that wrong,


Well, maybe I do. I hope im wrong, thats for sure.

#13825 One

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:00

Race is tomorrow, don't jump yet. Fernando will do a phenomenal race, I am feeling strong about the progress.

#13826 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:02

Race is tomorrow, don't jump yet. Fernando will do a phenomenal race, I am feeling strong about the progress.

Exactly. You cannot deny that every race Ferrari is getting closer.

#13827 RedOne

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:04

Link

That phrase switching back means the one used before this current one doesn't it?


It could easily mean a different style exhaust that's replaced the original, he's not going to give that away like that is he. And with Marc Gene coming outright and staying "look we will have a Sauber style exhaust" it's now undeniable.

Anyways, I know the car is a bad one, but what is making me happy right now is progress. Every race Ferrari gets a couple tenths closer to McLaren. Look at RedBull instead, they don't look like they are making as much progress, although they are starting better off. But a few races and if these improvements keep coming, and working, then they should be competitive in no time. :up:


I don't know, it doesn't seem like Ferrari have fixed this apparently 'big' aero problem we have had that's making the car behave unusually. I hope this Mugello/Spain package is actually going to address that problem. I hope they suprise us becuase I feel a bit downbeat about it.. Hope Alonso has a good race though.

#13828 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:07

It could easily mean a different style exhaust that's replaced the original, he's not going to give that away like that is he. And with Marc Gene coming outright and staying "look we will have a Sauber style exhaust" it's now undeniable.



I don't know, it doesn't seem like Ferrari have fixed this apparently 'big' aero problem we have had that's making the car behave unusually. I hope this Mugello/Spain package is actually going to address that problem. I hope they suprise us becuase I feel a bit downbeat about it.. Hope Alonso has a good race though.

But he said 'swap back to the other one. That cannot be any ther exhaust apart from original.

#13829 RedOne

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:19

But he said 'swap back to the other one. That cannot be any ther exhaust apart from original.


I don't know how you can use this as 100% hard evidence that the exhaust's have not changed to Sauber ones. How would he phrase it if they are not the original exhaust's then? is Marc Gene lying?

We will soon find out who is right anyway :)

Edited by RedOne, 14 April 2012 - 11:20.


#13830 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:23

I don't know how you can use this as 100% hard evidence that the exhaust's have not changed to Sauber ones. How would he phrase it if they are not the original exhaust's then? is Marc Gene lying?

We will soon find out who is right anyway :)

i am not saying anything with certainty. it is just that that phrase would make more sense with the original exhausts which were on the car at one point, then they switched to this one, so to 'swap back' would surely mean to the original again, instead of a Sauber style solution which they have never run yet.
i would definitely prefer to see the original, but whichever one takes ferrari closer to the front.

Ferrari F2012 - revised sidepod aero package

Posted Image

With the team planning to bring a large and radical upgrade to May's Spanish event, there are only a few updates to the F2012 in China. Two small fins have been placed under the mirrors to better direct airflow at the top of the sidepods (see upper arrow). A small fin and vertical turning vane have also been added to the lower section of the car, below the sidepod opening (see lower arrows).


Source: F1.com

Ferrari site seems to be down today. but their thoughts can be found on F1 technical.

Stefano Domenicali, Team principal:
“Whoever understands that is very clever! I challenge anyone to produce a rational explanation of how this afternoon’s qualifying went, not just for ourselves, but also as far as almost all the other cars are concerned. We went from having very small gaps in Q2, with eleven drivers in around three tenths of one another, to much bigger differences in Q3, with very strong fluctuations in some cases. Given our current situation and above all, the fact that at this track, the major weaknesses of the F2012 seem to be particularly marked, this result is an accurate reflection of where we are in terms of outright performance, even if we have seen that later, in the race, things can change. Sure, it’s not what we were looking for at the start of the season, but today we have to make a virtue of necessity. With a grid like tomorrow’s we can expect an even more open race than we might have done going into the weekend. Our aim is clear: to get both cars home in the points and make the most of any opportunity that comes along during the race.”

Fernando Alonso, P9, chassis 295:
“We knew this would be a difficult qualifying and that’s how it turned out. We managed to get into Q3, staying ahead of Vettel by a few thousandths. Then, from Q2 to Q3, the wind changed direction and that was penalising. The car is what it is and the improvements we brought here are not sufficient to produce a jump in performance and so this position corresponds more or less to our current potential. Sure, we cannot be happy to be a second off pole position, but all we can do is work to try and close this gap. If we do enough of a good job then we can think about winning, otherwise not. But I remain optimistic: even in 2010, we were significantly behind the best, but all the same, we got to the final race leading the World Championship…The starting grid is very exciting and curious, with two Mercedes, one Sauber and a Lotus in front of the rest. We cannot permit ourselves to make any mistakes because we certainly don’t have the best car: if we manage to operate perfectly, as we did in Australia and Malaysia, then we can think about bringing home valuable points.”

Felipe Massa, P12, chassis 294:
“On the one hand I am obviously unhappy not to have made it through to Q3 but, on the other, I have to be pleased with my position if I consider where we were this morning at the end of FP3. In the afternoon, the situation improved, the car had much more grip and I managed to be more competitive, but I couldn’t say exactly why. Probably the track conditions changed in a way that suited us. We hope to continue like this tomorrow afternoon and to bring home a good result: it’s really needed right now! I so much want a normal race, a calm one in which I manage to do my job well and pick up some points. I still don’t have any and the moment has come to remove this zero from the classification.”

Pat Fry, Technical director:
“This result is in line with our potential in this initial part of the season, but the way we got there was rather surprising. I am struggling to remember the last time Q2 was as close as this afternoon’s, with eleven drivers all within less than four tenths and then, a few minutes later, significant gaps reappearing between the top and the bottom in Q3. From what we can understand after a quick first analysis, the optimum useage window for the tyres Pirelli has brought here is so tight that it only takes equally small changes in temperature to significantly change car behaviour. After a third free practice session that was particularly difficult, we made some changes to the set-up on Felipe’s car, however, they alone cannot explain the improvement we saw in qualifying. Having said that, now we must think only of preparing as well as possible for a race that will be long and stressful, especially for the tyres. No rain is forecast for the afternoon, therefore it will be difficult to repeat the amazing result from Sepang, but all the same, we must be always ready to exploit every opportunity, which is the norm with a team that does not have the most competitive package in the field. We have the possibility of getting both drivers into the points and this must be our target: we will gladly take anything extra that might come our way!”


Source

Edited by SCUDmissile, 14 April 2012 - 11:40.


#13831 radosav

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:00

Then, from Q2 to Q3, the wind changed direction and that was penalising.

Martin Whitmarsh, Team principal, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes:


“It was a peculiar qualifying session, in which the to-ing and fro-ing of grip levels was abnormally unpredictable. During Q3, the air and track temperatures cooled rapidly as the sky overhead became suddenly overcast, and the circuit became appreciably slower as a result. Nico, who had already cut a very good lap early in the session, was therefore unassailable. Jenson, who went out later, found that the track surface had become much less grippy than it had been beforehand, and the inevitable result was a slower-than-expected lap time from him.

"But that wasn’t his fault; pretty much everyone who was on track at the end of Q3 either recorded a slower lap-time than they’d hoped for, or indeed aborted it, as Lewis did.

#13832 kosmos

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:44

in sector 2 Alonso was slow than Q1 with medium tyres..maybe he did a mistake

And Koba did 35.7 after Fernando's lap


The track is evolving all the time, you can't compare lap times like that from Q1 to Q3.


#13833 PoleMan

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 13:30

Yeah, I was surprised when Gene said that, but I don´t think he is making things up.


Well, considering that what Gene' says would be directly contrary to what Ferrari F1 told a fan during their last Twitter Q&A, someone at Ferrari is mistating the facts. :confused:

See Scud Missile's original post. Apologies Scud: I don't know how to properly "Block Quote."

QUOTE
There are a lot of talk about the new 'Ferrauber' being launched in Mugello. How far is it from the truth?

Very far

Is it true that we will see in the Chinese GP a new sidepods and exhaust layout in the F2012 like Sauber C31 has?
not at all!


This post has been edited by SCUDmissile: Apr 5 2012, 16:35

Edited by PoleMan, 14 April 2012 - 13:32.


#13834 Watkins74

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 13:45

I don´t think so... Marc Gene said during FP3 that Ferrari is getting rid of the Acer ducts and going for a Sauber-like exhausts.

I hope so, the car is crap right now. I bet Luca is going out of his mind with 2 Sauber's in front of them.

#13835 revmeister

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 16:56

It seems to me that Ferrari tried something new in the design and it didn't work as planned. So did RedBull and Sauber. Sauber's worked out, but it could have gone the other way.

Unfortunately the testing restrictions make it difficult to recover, and I think that's bad for the sport.

The thing is that Ferrari took a chance, and to me that's good. Not trying is the worst. It might hurt their chances for the championship this season, but that's the nature of sport and competition. When things finally come good their glory will be all the greater.

Good on Sauber, they have been waiting a long time for this moment!

#13836 keeppushingurep1

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 18:39

I think the f2012 did work much better today.

q2 was really really close, less than 3 tenths to the leader.

the thing is that in q3 ferrari did the run when the track was already cold (because they wasted a pair of softs in q1) all the good times were set at the very begining of q3

(just my opinion)

#13837 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 18:59

It seems to me that Ferrari tried something new in the design and it didn't work as planned. So did RedBull and Sauber. Sauber's worked out, but it could have gone the other way.

Unfortunately the testing restrictions make it difficult to recover, and I think that's bad for the sport.

The thing is that Ferrari took a chance, and to me that's good. Not trying is the worst. It might hurt their chances for the championship this season, but that's the nature of sport and competition. When things finally come good their glory will be all the greater.

Good on Sauber, they have been waiting a long time for this moment!


Very good post. Perfect in fact. I think you hit the nail on the head & I couldn't have said it better or agree more. They tried something completely new and didn't get it right on the first go. Happens. Now the question is how fast can they recover.

#13838 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 20:27

Couple of the aero changes made for China.

Posted Image




Difference in the RW endplates

Posted Image

Edited by CrucialXtreme, 14 April 2012 - 20:33.


#13839 revmeister

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 21:50

:clap:

Very good post. Perfect in fact. I think you hit the nail on the head & I couldn't have said it better or agree more. They tried something completely new and didn't get it right on the first go. Happens. Now the question is how fast can they recover.


Watching the recovery and the dramas that go with it is very entertaining to me. I like this version of Ferrari, they seem to try to be the good guys, and are willing to take a hit for the good of the sport. An example would be last years EBD row.
Sport to me is not about having everything in hand in advance, the win guarantee'd, rather it is striving to be the best and if someone else fairly comes out ahead then saying, 'Good on you, we'll beat you next time'.

Looking forward to the race!

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#13840 muttyx

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 00:29

This is getting harder to watch, it really is a very tough time for Ferrari, and I only hope that they can get the car where it needs to be soon, but I do fear that it will happen too late.

The only hope is that there is no clear team that will win each race and they trip over each other, that and Ferrari get their act together and find proper solutions with the car.



We need to stop kidding ourselves. This is the worst Ferrari since 1992, and its almost impossible to dig out of this whole. We started the season dead last out of all the proper teams and we are still 8th, barely better than FI and TR, with our drivers struggling to beat the Williams driven by pay drivers. Its a terrible display of incompetence by the designers, which proves they are totally lost. If you make a car this bad with all the resources you have, you are incompetent, and simply do know how to create a good f1 car, which means we have no hope for recovery.

If we have a dry race the truth will finally come out about how bad we really are. Luck has flattered Ferrari in the first two races.

#13841 Red27br

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:00

We need to stop kidding ourselves. This is the worst Ferrari since 1992, and its almost impossible to dig out of this whole. We started the season dead last out of all the proper teams and we are still 8th, barely better than FI and TR, with our drivers struggling to beat the Williams driven by pay drivers. Its a terrible display of incompetence by the designers, which proves they are totally lost. If you make a car this bad with all the resources you have, you are incompetent, and simply do know how to create a good f1 car, which means we have no hope for recovery.

If we have a dry race the truth will finally come out about how bad we really are. Luck has flattered Ferrari in the first two races.


i do not agree
1996 was very bad but the grid was not so tight packed.

2005 was bad also

take a look in this two season how far we used to be from the winner

#13842 Bartel

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:05

i do not agree
1996 was very bad but the grid was not so tight packed.

2005 was bad also

take a look in this two season how far we used to be from the winner

I too was sabout to bring up 2005, some races it was getting spanked! Watching Rubens and Michael fight for positions outside the top 10 was very strange, I however think it was more due to the tyres than out and out car performance. The Michelins in 2005 were superb.

#13843 tarek

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:08

i do not agree
1996 was very bad but the grid was not so tight packed.

2005 was bad also

take a look in this two season how far we used to be from the winner



I miss Ross Brawn, sigh


#13844 ASFA2011

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:12

We need to stop kidding ourselves. This is the worst Ferrari since 1992, and its almost impossible to dig out of this whole. We started the season dead last out of all the proper teams and we are still 8th, barely better than FI and TR, with our drivers struggling to beat the Williams driven by pay drivers. Its a terrible display of incompetence by the designers, which proves they are totally lost. If you make a car this bad with all the resources you have, you are incompetent, and simply do know how to create a good f1 car, which means we have no hope for recovery.

If we have a dry race the truth will finally come out about how bad we really are. Luck has flattered Ferrari in the first two races.


Shsssss ... Please don't bring any common sense to this particular thread or you will be labeled as a troll by the dreamers brigade
I been saying all along since the second day of testing , this car is plain incompetence

#13845 Watkins74

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:21

We need to stop kidding ourselves. This is the worst Ferrari since 1992, and its almost impossible to dig out of this whole. We started the season dead last out of all the proper teams and we are still 8th, barely better than FI and TR, with our drivers struggling to beat the Williams driven by pay drivers. Its a terrible display of incompetence by the designers, which proves they are totally lost. If you make a car this bad with all the resources you have, you are incompetent, and simply do know how to create a good f1 car, which means we have no hope for recovery.

If we have a dry race the truth will finally come out about how bad we really are. Luck has flattered Ferrari in the first two races.

I am a Ferrari fan but sadly I think you are closer to the truth than some will admit. You also bring up a point I have tried to make in the past about the $ they have available to them, they should not be so far behind.

You have to give Ferrari credit though, they fired Aldo Costa and look how Aldo has ruined Mercedes. :stoned:



#13846 PoleMan

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:37

I am a Ferrari fan but sadly I think you are closer to the truth than some will admit. You also bring up a point I have tried to make in the past about the $ they have available to them, they should not be so far behind.

You have to give Ferrari credit though, they fired Aldo Costa and look how Aldo has ruined Mercedes. :stoned:


He may have been a sacrificial lamb for Ferrari, but given when Costa joined the Silver Arrows, he hardly deserves any credit for their pace does he? If so, then I guess he also deserves credit for the fact that they go backwards in the race due to tyre wear (Actually, that sounds like a car trait he brought from Maranello!)and have 1 solitary championship point, while Alonso's pig of Ferrari leads the championship.

Look, Costa was TD and Ferrari weren't making the progress management felt they should. Was it unfair and mis-directed...maybe. But that's life in F1 at the most famous franchise. Fry certainly seems to be trying to rebuild the basic structures of how Ferrari work, meaning that in his view there was/is a lot that needs fixing.

#13847 MGKrebs

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:42

I have trouble believing that the "Acer ducts" or the exhaust are the problem. They've been moving the exhaust around a lot, and the ducts are just a bit of bodywork that can be changed if there is no exhaust in them.
I think the problem may center around the front suspension. They are the only team with front pull rods.

#13848 BigCHrome

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:28

He may have been a sacrificial lamb for Ferrari, but given when Costa joined the Silver Arrows, he hardly deserves any credit for their pace does he? If so, then I guess he also deserves credit for the fact that they go backwards in the race due to tyre wear (Actually, that sounds like a car trait he brought from Maranello!)and have 1 solitary championship point, while Alonso's pig of Ferrari leads the championship.

Look, Costa was TD and Ferrari weren't making the progress management felt they should. Was it unfair and mis-directed...maybe. But that's life in F1 at the most famous franchise. Fry certainly seems to be trying to rebuild the basic structures of how Ferrari work, meaning that in his view there was/is a lot that needs fixing.


Costa's Ferraris were always very gentle on their tires.

#13849 PoleMan

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:29

Costa's Ferraris were always very gentle on their tires.

Yes. They couldn't reach the proper operating temperature, hurting the team both in qualifying and when switching to the primes, sending the F150 backwards. I believe Alonso lost a couple more victories last year due to this characteristic.

#13850 RedOne

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:16

I can't wait for Mugello to finally get some answers!