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It is worth being a US Highway Patrol officer again


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#1 mariner

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 18:48

Again from my new discovery , the GM press site!!

Selling police cars is a big business in the US in which Ford had a stranglehold on with the Crown Victoria as the last RWD car made in the USA.

Production of that has stopped so Ford, Chrysler and GM have developed new cop cars.

The link is to the GM Caprice PPV ( Police pursiut vehicle!!)

They clearly wanted to win the speed test which they did at 150mph, by stuffing the ever useful Corvete V-8 under the hood.

http://media.gm.com/...0921_police_ppv

Interestly the V-8 is a no charge option over the std. V-6.

BTW I remember that once upon a time Joe Public could actually order a police spec. car if they tried hard - is this still true?

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#2 Tony Matthews

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 19:46

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#3 Vanishing Point

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 21:30

Again from my new discovery , the GM press site!!

Selling police cars is a big business in the US in which Ford had a stranglehold on with the Crown Victoria as the last RWD car made in the USA.

Production of that has stopped so Ford, Chrysler and GM have developed new cop cars.

The link is to the GM Caprice PPV ( Police pursiut vehicle!!)

They clearly wanted to win the speed test which they did at 150mph, by stuffing the ever useful Corvete V-8 under the hood.

http://media.gm.com/...0921_police_ppv

Interestly the V-8 is a no charge option over the std. V-6.

BTW I remember that once upon a time Joe Public could actually order a police spec. car if they tried hard - is this still true?


They export the best ones for Joe Public to use on German roads.

:cool: :clap:





#4 primer

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 00:04

Don't know if the job is worthy, but a 6 liter V8 makes any car worth driving. :up: :clap:

2012 Chevrolet Caprice PPV: Anything But A Trivial Pursuit

Interesting excerpt:

A new 3.6-liter, flex-fuel V6 is available for 2012 (there was a very short 2011 PPV model year, with only around 400 units delivered), and it joins the 6.0-liter V8 that we loved in the G8 GT. Interestingly, while GM is offering the Caprice in two basic styles (9C1 and 9C3) and two completely different engines, they all carry the same $31,495 MSRP. GM officials tell us that the 301 horsepower and 265 pound-feet of torque V6 is actually costlier to build than its V8 counterpart thanks to features like variable valve timing, dual overhead cams and direct injection. At least it gets better fuel economy: 17 miles per gallon city, 28 highway versus the V8's thirstier 15 / 24 estimates



#5 saudoso

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 00:11

They export the best ones for Joe Public to use on German roads.

:cool: :clap:

Being flashed to the right when your poor self is doing 200kph. End of speed limit signs. Germany is *the* place to drive around...

Edited by saudoso, 02 October 2011 - 00:12.


#6 Lukin

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 01:45

That car looks pretty familiar!

That's the top of the line 'luxury' Holden here (it's hard to say luxury with a straight face when its the same basic car as the bottom of the line car which is half its price) and another company do their own slightly modified version.

http://www.hsv.com.a...ge/grange_1.jpg

#7 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:26

Oh how the mighty have fallen. GM US have to import a decent car from Australia, and even then really an average car. But at least it is a full size rear drive sedan. Unlike all the FWD crap they sell now. But at least they still make Corvettes!!
The Camaro is basically a Commodore in drag ofcourse.

#8 mariner

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 07:27

Thank you, Lee.

I was wondering how come GM had a RWD large car available and wondered if it was the Oz Caprice. To my " shame" when I actaully saw one ( the up market version) I thought it was quite nice. I would think the strength of the Oz dollar must have cramped exports to the Middle East recently.

#9 Wuzak

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 08:08

Looks like Ford will stop building the rwd Falcon and replace it with the Taurus in fwd and 4wd, and probably rebadge that as the Falcon. So, Ford will no longer have a rwd sedan anywhere in the world, and definitely no V8 rwd sedan. Yet Hyundai and Kia will have V8 rwd sedans....

If they think they're having trouble selling the Falcon now (varying between 1500 and 2000 sales a month) just wait until it really is a Taurus....

#10 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 08:34

Looks like Ford will stop building the rwd Falcon and replace it with the Taurus in fwd and 4wd, and probably rebadge that as the Falcon. So, Ford will no longer have a rwd sedan anywhere in the world, and definitely no V8 rwd sedan. Yet Hyundai and Kia will have V8 rwd sedans....

If they think they're having trouble selling the Falcon now (varying between 1500 and 2000 sales a month) just wait until it really is a Taurus....

I believe that idea has been canned, lets hope so or Ford will not sell many cars.
Though Ford do need some expertise at marketing cars it would appear. The Falcon is the better car but the marketing is crap, as is commonsense options on low end models.And the dedicated gas problem, that alone sells thousands of Holdens with dual fuel.

#11 Wuzak

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 09:39

I believe that idea has been canned, lets hope so or Ford will not sell many cars.
Though Ford do need some expertise at marketing cars it would appear. The Falcon is the better car but the marketing is crap, as is commonsense options on low end models.And the dedicated gas problem, that alone sells thousands of Holdens with dual fuel.


Not sure - the car mags seem to think the Taurus is a done deal.

I frankly can't see that selling. The Focus sells less than 1000 a month, the Mondeo sells a mere 600 a month, while the Territory sells around the 1500 units a month and the Falcon the 1500-2000. If the Falcon gets replaced by the Taurus then the Territory will disappear in favour of the Escape (which they already sell here) as will the ute.

I know what you say about marketing - 2500 Corollas and 3000+ Cruzes walk out the door each month whle Ford can't crack 1000 Foci - what's up with that?

#12 Magoo

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 11:38

BTW I remember that once upon a time Joe Public could actually order a police spec. car if they tried hard - is this still true?


Sure, it's still done. You do have to know someone, either on the mfg'er or the govt/purchasing end. The simplest and cheapest way to buy them is used. Cop cars go for pennies on the dollar on the wholesale auction market. Used cop cars used to be the original nightmare purchase but now they're a great value IMO.


#13 Vanishing Point

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 12:33

Looks like Ford will stop building the rwd Falcon and replace it with the Taurus in fwd and 4wd, and probably rebadge that as the Falcon. So, Ford will no longer have a rwd sedan anywhere in the world, and definitely no V8 rwd sedan. Yet Hyundai and Kia will have V8 rwd sedans....

If they think they're having trouble selling the Falcon now (varying between 1500 and 2000 sales a month) just wait until it really is a Taurus....


Seems like Ford haven't learn't much from the mistake that they made with the Jaguar X Type.


#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 19:01

Lots of Australian input here...

Let's not forget that the Territory took the place of the Falcon wagon, so its sales are artificially high while Falcon (compared to the Commodore) are low.

I've always considered it a good thing that Australia's top two volume makers stuck to rear wheel drive for their big sedans. I also have no doubt that the Bathurst race contributed to that decision somewhere along the line, maybe not now, but certainly at some point or other. Just as it did the retention of the V8.

#15 Vanishing Point

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 20:32

Lots of Australian input here...

Let's not forget that the Territory took the place of the Falcon wagon, so its sales are artificially high while Falcon (compared to the Commodore) are low.

I've always considered it a good thing that Australia's top two volume makers stuck to rear wheel drive for their big sedans. I also have no doubt that the Bathurst race contributed to that decision somewhere along the line, maybe not now, but certainly at some point or other. Just as it did the retention of the V8.



Most of the european market knows that rwd is best too but many of the recent generation of european buyers have been indoctrinated by years of false propaganda that fwd is supposedly better,but even the ones who don't believe it are priced out of the rwd market because in Europe it's mainly dominated by the expensive BMW,Merc,and Jaguar manufacturers.

Which realistically means buying an older secondhand,expensive to maintain and insure,one of those models,with only a secondhand BMW providing the possibility of a decent manual box and big V8 in something like an E39 M5.All of which makes those types of cars in very short supply because most of the rest of the rwd market is just made up of automatic transmission cars,which the upper executive level of the market demands.Which at least was helped by the simplicity of being able to convert the older type Jaguar models to manual boxes but even that isn't so easily possible now.

The ironic thing is that cars like the Monaro and VXR8 helped to solve some of that problem here but they are out of reach,pricewise because of import duty and the Oz $ exchange rate,of the type of buyers who'd buy them new,which then makes them in short supply and more expensive on the secondhand market too.



#16 Wuzak

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 23:10

I think the mainstream cars in Europe tend to be smaller too.

The Falcon is much closer in size to the 3-series than it is to the 5-series. I figure that if the Falcon was to downsize a little that it would be a more attractive size in European markets. And it would be almost a perfect size to share platforms with the Mustang. Downsizing of engines and adding Diesel options would also benefit.

The old I6 has done wonderful service in the Falcon/Territory over many years, but with the rapid tightening of emissions technology it is become too hard for it to keep up. I think if the Falcon can be smaller and lighter then it wouldn't need anything over 3l, or a 2.5l turbo. That could be a compact V6, or maybe a derivative of the Volvo T6?

Now that the PSA V6 turbodiesel has been fitted to the Territory, how difficul would it be to fit it to the Falcon?

#17 Vanishing Point

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 00:02

I think the mainstream cars in Europe tend to be smaller too.

The Falcon is much closer in size to the 3-series than it is to the 5-series. I figure that if the Falcon was to downsize a little that it would be a more attractive size in European markets. And it would be almost a perfect size to share platforms with the Mustang. Downsizing of engines and adding Diesel options would also benefit.

The old I6 has done wonderful service in the Falcon/Territory over many years, but with the rapid tightening of emissions technology it is become too hard for it to keep up. I think if the Falcon can be smaller and lighter then it wouldn't need anything over 3l, or a 2.5l turbo. That could be a compact V6, or maybe a derivative of the Volvo T6?

Now that the PSA V6 turbodiesel has been fitted to the Territory, how difficul would it be to fit it to the Falcon?


I think the reality is that the European performance car market,at least the British and German ones,is (rightly) more resistant to the idea of downsizing and all the other politically driven ideas related to the fuel economy,diesels,emmissions,and downsizing than many of those in the States and Oz think.The Vauxhall VXR8 seems to be in the same size group as a 5 series not the 3 series and downsizing it and putting a V6 or a diesel in it would make demand for it less not more.It's depreciation rates also seem to suggest that it can hold it's value better compared to most of the smaller and less powerful,more economical types of cars already available on the European market.

I'd say that contrary to downsizing maybe fitting forced induction on the VXR8 as standard at no extra cost and dual fuel LPG capability and having a dedicated European assembly operation to get round the import duties and exchange rate issues would be a better idea than just adding yet more downsized cars that will just mean yet more overcapacity in the fleet sector v the 3 series.


#18 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 10:27

Not sure - the car mags seem to think the Taurus is a done deal.

I frankly can't see that selling. The Focus sells less than 1000 a month, the Mondeo sells a mere 600 a month, while the Territory sells around the 1500 units a month and the Falcon the 1500-2000. If the Falcon gets replaced by the Taurus then the Territory will disappear in favour of the Escape (which they already sell here) as will the ute.

I know what you say about marketing - 2500 Corollas and 3000+ Cruzes walk out the door each month whle Ford can't crack 1000 Foci - what's up with that?

Gee, 600 Mondeos a month, that is 5 years time will have the resale of scrap value. still that will probably be the Aussie asembled Daewoo too [Cruze]

All the hoo ha about fuel economy, the 6cyl Falcons and Commys are more economical than most of the 'family' fours on the open road, and are far more rugged and roomy than any of them.And cheaper to maintain too.

Though I am sure I will get shouted down but the simpler live axle Falcons are actually better family cars than the tyre shredding IRS cars, Which had more room in the boot and are very simple on maintenance. And the Commodores defnitley were.

BTW a Falcon [and Commodore] is a big car not a 3 series pram size at all.

#19 Terry Walker

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:17

Yes, the Falcons and Holdens ARE big cars. I have a Falcon Wagon, EL model, which is just under 17 feet long and a bit over six feet wide. A 115 inch wheelbase tells the story. Not 3 series Beemer by an stretch. More like a long wheelbase 7 Series.

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#20 Vanishing Point

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:37

Gee, 600 Mondeos a month, that is 5 years time will have the resale of scrap value. still that will probably be the Aussie asembled Daewoo too [Cruze]

All the hoo ha about fuel economy, the 6cyl Falcons and Commys are more economical than most of the 'family' fours on the open road, and are far more rugged and roomy than any of them.And cheaper to maintain too.

Though I am sure I will get shouted down but the simpler live axle Falcons are actually better family cars than the tyre shredding IRS cars, Which had more room in the boot and are very simple on maintenance. And the Commodores defnitley were.

BTW a Falcon [and Commodore] is a big car not a 3 series pram size at all.



The old Ford Falcon (Mk 2 Granada here) was a good compromise of Independent suspension and simple to maintain.I think in Oz it had the 302 ci V8 in it and here it had the 2.8 Litre V6 or a 2 Litre 4 cylinder. A good 25-30 year old Mk 2 Granada,if you can find one, is probably worth more than a 5-10 year old Mondeo would be.

But the old 1980's/90's live axle Ford LTD Crown Victoria seemed to be able to do a good enough job in the States of being both high performance saloon as a police patrol car with the 302 HO Mustang engine in it or as a family saloon but I don't think it was ever offered with a manual box option unlike the 2.8 Litre V6 Granada here and maybe the Ford Falcon.






#21 Catalina Park

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:02

The old Ford Falcon (Mk 2 Granada here) was a good compromise of Independent suspension and simple to maintain.I think in Oz it had the 302 ci V8 in it and here it had the 2.8 Litre V6 or a 2 Litre 4 cylinder. A good 25-30 year old Mk 2 Granada,if you can find one, is probably worth more than a 5-10 year old Mondeo would be.

But the old 1980's/90's live axle Ford LTD Crown Victoria seemed to be able to do a good enough job in the States of being both high performance saloon as a police patrol car with the 302 HO Mustang engine in it or as a family saloon but I don't think it was ever offered with a manual box option unlike the 2.8 Litre V6 Granada here and maybe the Ford Falcon.

The Granada and the Falcon are very different cars. They might look the same and have the same badge but they are not even close under the skin.


#22 Vanishing Point

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:28

The Granada and the Falcon are very different cars. They might look the same and have the same badge but they are not even close under the skin.


Thanks for clarifying that.It gets confusing because there are some Granadas that have been converted by previous owners to 289 or 302 V8's and it's easy to confuse that idea with Oz imported Falcons.I think in that case all of the V8 Granadas that I've known have been converted V6 Granadas not imported Falcons.It's a shame that Ford didn't offer those as a factory option.


#23 cheapracer

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:30

The Granada and the Falcon are very different cars. They might look the same and have the same badge but they are not even close under the skin.


Do Granada door handles fail/fall off all the time? :lol:


#24 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 19:15

I don't think the breaking doorhandles continued after the EF, did it?

But it sure was worth a mint at the spare parts counter while it was happening!

#25 Vanishing Point

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 20:52

I don't think the breaking doorhandles continued after the EF, did it?

But it sure was worth a mint at the spare parts counter while it was happening!



The Crown Victoria,Granada,and the Falcon all used the same door handles during the 1980's and don't think any of them were known for falling off a lot.

http://upload.wikime...n_Victoria_.jpg

http://upload.wikime..._Victroia_S.jpg


http://upload.wikime...XE_Fairmont.jpg


http://upload.wikime...anada_Break.jpg

Edited by Vanishing Point, 07 October 2011 - 21:32.


#26 Wuzak

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 22:21

Yes, the Falcons and Holdens ARE big cars. I have a Falcon Wagon, EL model, which is just under 17 feet long and a bit over six feet wide. A 115 inch wheelbase tells the story. Not 3 series Beemer by an stretch. More like a long wheelbase 7 Series.


The Mondeo is a bigger car than the Falcon now (except on length).

The wheelbase of your wagon is within a few mm of the wheelbase of the swb VE Commodore. Still, the FG Falcon manages to be longer overall than the Commonbore. The Statesman/Caprice has a wb of over 3m, the current 5 series has a wb of just shy of 3m. The current lwb 7 series has a wheelbase of 3.2m.

The Falcon has lots of overhang (particularly at the front, compared to some), and is a long car.

#27 Catalina Park

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 22:27

The Crown Victoria,Granada,and the Falcon all used the same door handles during the 1980's and don't think any of them were known for falling off a lot.

Wrong again. Just because something looks the same does not mean it is the same. Falcon door handles were well known for breaking. I changed 4 on my own XF Falcon and have done about another 50 for other people.

Australian cars used to have to be built to a very high local content (95% by cost) They couldn't use imported components unless they absolutely had to. The door handles were locally made like most other parts.

#28 Vanishing Point

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 01:16

Wrong again. Just because something looks the same does not mean it is the same. Falcon door handles were well known for breaking. I changed 4 on my own XF Falcon and have done about another 50 for other people.

Australian cars used to have to be built to a very high local content (95% by cost) They couldn't use imported components unless they absolutely had to. The door handles were locally made like most other parts.


It would have been interesting to see what they were doing wrong in that case because they probably also would have been made locally in Europe too but just to the US type of design ?.Anyway in answer to Cheapracer's question it wasn't a problem with the Mk 2 Granada,or the LTD,which the design seems to have been based on,as I can remember.


#29 cheapracer

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 04:57

Falcon door handles were well known for breaking. I changed 4 on my own XF Falcon and have done about another 50 for other people.


My workshop was in Logan City so as you can imagine the area had truckloads of XD's to XF's. I didn't even repair many Oz cars but kept a box of handles for the local car yard roadworthys.


#30 Catalina Park

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 07:52

My workshop was in Logan City so as you can imagine the area had truckloads of XD's to XF's. I didn't even repair many Oz cars but kept a box of handles for the local car yard roadworthys.

The worst bit was when the silly lever on the rods on the inside handle broke at the same time as the outside handle. Then you couldn't get in or out.

Vanishing Point, you don't seem to grasp the point that these cars were not related to each other in any way. They might as well have been made by different manufacturers.

#31 Vanishing Point

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:22

The worst bit was when the silly lever on the rods on the inside handle broke at the same time as the outside handle. Then you couldn't get in or out.

Vanishing Point, you don't seem to grasp the point that these cars were not related to each other in any way. They might as well have been made by different manufacturers.



I think you're right.That problem with the inside linkages causing problems was something that I've experienced a few times on a series 3 Jaguar XJ but never the Granada.But ironically I think probably the best of the Fords was the Mk 2 Granada fitted with a 302 V8 and that's the one that Ford never built at all.


#32 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 13:28

I don't think the breaking doorhandles continued after the EF, did it?

But it sure was worth a mint at the spare parts counter while it was happening!

EA on handles seldom break. But XD XE XF ones sure do.I have replaced dozens of them. And on TE TF Cortinas too, though not as often. They are the same handle. Those Crown Vic ones may be the same too. Or a variation.
The way the handles work on to the door mechanisms is part of the problem. XD-XF were shocking, Cortinas were far better. Hence less broken ones. The XG XH handle looks the same out side but have different secondary components and work onto a better [EF Style] door mechanism. They break but not near as often.

The XB XC door handles are the same basic components as 71 Mustangs and Galaxies but seem to work better so do not break like the Falcon version. My 71 Galaxie still has all the originals! But the XC parked in front of it at the moment has had all 4 replaced several times by the dealer. Reading service history can be enlightening, though probably shows boredom!!

And Ford recycle parts worlwide, as do most manufacturers. Even if made locally the design will fit the same style of cars world wide

#33 Vanishing Point

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 14:42

But ironically I think probably the best of the Fords was the Mk 2 Granada fitted with a 302 V8 and that's the one that Ford never built at all.



Edit.

http://www.streetfir...r-320_80345.htm


1.30-1.35 :cool: Although if it was mine the auto would be going in the skip and it would have a manual box in it.



http://www.streetfir...ranad_70642.htm

Edited by Vanishing Point, 08 October 2011 - 15:01.


#34 Magoo

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 16:45

Of course, Ford is doing the best it can to do eliminate all this with the "One Ford" global project strategy. One product line worldwide or as close as they can get.

#35 Vanishing Point

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 16:58

Of course, Ford is doing the best it can to do eliminate all this with the "One Ford" global project strategy. One product line worldwide or as close as they can get.



But the question is do Ford see the 'One Ford global project strategy' as something like the idea of bringing back something like a modern,more developed,version of the old Mk 2 Granada for everyone this time,instead of the Granada in Europe,the Falcon in Oz,and the LTD Crown Victoria in the US,or do they see the future as just the fwd Mondeo/Taurus type car with relatively small engines.Because as everyone knows you can't put the torque of a decent engine through the same wheels that you steer with.


#36 bigleagueslider

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 03:33

Ford is still selling almost 5000 crown vic's per month, and they probably make a profit on each one. Don't know why they would take it out of production.

The cops like it because it has body-on-frame construction. It's much easier to repair after crashes. If you've ever seen how the police/highway patrol use their cars in the US, you'd appreciate why this is important.

Plus the large back seat makes it easier to transport a large number of cuffed perps.

#37 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 08:23

Is there a Guinness Book of Records catagory for "Most Cuffed Perps on a Back Seat"?

#38 cheapracer

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 08:38

Ford is still selling almost 5000 crown vic's per month, and they probably make a profit on each one. Don't know why they would take it out of production.


err because seemingly they are stupid. There is certainly truth in the need to progress or get left behind but theres also iconic cars that just keep keeping on yet manufacturers stupidly stop them early even when sales are strong.

Going to FWD for a "Falcon" in Oz will almost certainly kill it locally.


Plus the large back seat makes it easier to transport a large number of cuffed perps.


I'm sure the large seat comes in hand for the arresting arrested as well ...


#39 Magoo

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 11:10

Ford is still selling almost 5000 crown vic's per month, and they probably make a profit on each one. Don't know why they would take it out of production.

The cops like it because it has body-on-frame construction. It's much easier to repair after crashes. If you've ever seen how the police/highway patrol use their cars in the US, you'd appreciate why this is important.

Plus the large back seat makes it easier to transport a large number of cuffed perps.


Sadly, I must report that Ford did indeed end production of the Crown Vic in September.

It was doubly sad for the people of Talbotville and St. Thomas, Ontario on the 401 midway between Windsor and Toronto. The plant is in the middle of nowhere and 1500 jobs are not coming back.

As to why the car went out of production: among other reasons, a few years ago Ford decided not to invest in any further mandated updates. For the 2012 MY (which ran only from August to September) the car was legal for sale only in Saudi Arabia.

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#40 mariner

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 11:42

Magoo, can autos in the USA be "grandfathered" with respect to new legistlation or is there some legistlation that must be applied even to cars whose production started way back?

#41 cheapracer

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 13:36

some legistlation that must be applied even to cars whose production started way back?


Certainly applies to Oz.


#42 Vanishing Point

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 13:47

err because seemingly they are stupid. There is certainly truth in the need to progress or get left behind but theres also iconic cars that just keep keeping on yet manufacturers stupidly stop them early even when sales are strong.

Going to FWD for a "Falcon" in Oz will almost certainly kill it locally.



It's not unusual for Ford to make suicidal production decisions,such as in the cases of the shutting down of Granada production and development in Europe and failing to offer it with a V8 option,thereby failing to compete in the BMW sector of the market.Which just left Ford with the choice of the Mondeo or nothing,and then putting Jaguar back years in the 3 series BMW sector of the market,by investing in the Mondeo based X TYpe,when everyone with any sense told them that no one wants an fwd Jaguar,so Ford then wasted more money on at least making the 3 Litre option 4 wheel drive instead to make,(what would have been),a fwd 3 Litre car,at least drive something like a Jaguar should.

The ironic thing is that it was the American market that (rightly) sank the thing and which complained most about the idea of an fwd and 4 wd small engined Jaguar but the decision which put it into production had been taken by Ford's US head office and marketing not in Coventry.

History shows that making large scale changes from decent V8 powered rwd cars to smaller engined fwd ones doesn't work.The comparison between BMW's and Rover's fortunes shows that.

But look on the bright side in this case the whole thing could turn out to be good for jobs and sales for GM Australia if it has the sense to keep on with cars like the VXR8 etc.In which case maybe Bathurst in future will be a race between the BMW M5,Jaguar XFR,and the Holdens and just leave Ford to carry on with going backwards until they end up with something like a Citroen Traction Avant from the 1930's on the grid.

Edited by Vanishing Point, 09 October 2011 - 18:42.


#43 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 11:32

Ford is still selling almost 5000 crown vic's per month, and they probably make a profit on each one. Don't know why they would take it out of production.

The cops like it because it has body-on-frame construction. It's much easier to repair after crashes. If you've ever seen how the police/highway patrol use their cars in the US, you'd appreciate why this is important.

Plus the large back seat makes it easier to transport a large number of cuffed perps.

They are body on frame? Gee that does make them a little old hat. Though at least a roomy rear drive car.
Maybe they should just do what Holeden do and import Falcons and put a Crown Vic badge on them. They would probably sell very well in the private market too.

#44 Vanishing Point

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 11:49

They are body on frame? Gee that does make them a little old hat. Though at least a roomy rear drive car.
Maybe they should just do what Holeden do and import Falcons and put a Crown Vic badge on them. They would probably sell very well in the private market too.



Ford had the possibility of doing that in the European market too.I think the thinking at Ford head office and marketing is just to leave the rwd market to the overpriced manufacturers like BMW etc..The problem with trying to use just Oz production capacity to solve the problem is that it still leaves the issue of under supply and over demand for rwd big engined cars and the Oz/US dollar/Euro/Sterling exchange rate.So you'll just end up with the type of situation here where VXR8's remain unsold not because no one wants them but no one can afford them at £52,000.


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Edited by Vanishing Point, 10 October 2011 - 12:01.


#45 Wuzak

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:11

The Falcon has never been engineered for LHD, so sales in the US would be difficult.

And the 6 may not meet current European standards, and would cost a lot to meet them.

I did read also that the next generation Mustang will not be engineered for RHD. I suppose it's base models will have, like the current generation, a live axle as standard.

#46 Vanishing Point

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:24

The Falcon has never been engineered for LHD, so sales in the US would be difficult.

And the 6 may not meet current European standards, and would cost a lot to meet them.

I did read also that the next generation Mustang will not be engineered for RHD. I suppose it's base models will have, like the current generation, a live axle as standard.



In which case GM are in a perfect position 'if' they can just sort out the production logistics and get a good pricing structure for their products by having local manufacturing operations in US and Europe.There's probably more buyers out there for the Holden/VXR8 than for the BMW 5 series and the Jaguar XF range 'if' the price is right.Such as around £30,000 that the VXR 8 was priced at here not long ago.

#47 cheapracer

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 14:00

They are body on frame? Gee that does make them a little old hat.


Why? Sure production cost might be higher but that was paid for many years ago over and over. The advantages of chassis are great such as more comfortable ride for perps in that lounge sized rear seat - couldn't be a nicer way to go to jail.

Then there's the easier repairs, can suffer more rust on the salted winter roads without losing structual strength etc.


#48 Vanishing Point

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 15:42

Why? Sure production cost might be higher but that was paid for many years ago over and over. The advantages of chassis are great such as more comfortable ride for perps in that lounge sized rear seat - couldn't be a nicer way to go to jail.

Then there's the easier repairs, can suffer more rust on the salted winter roads without losing structual strength etc.


Good old fashioned simple American engineering is actually what it is.


http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


#49 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 15:54

Then there's the easier repairs, can suffer more rust on the salted winter roads without losing structual strength etc.

I thought the big problem with body on frame was worse collapse and crush in a collision.

#50 Vanishing Point

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 18:05

I thought the big problem with body on frame was worse collapse and crush in a collision.



There's not much difference depending on the height of what it hits.On unitary construction it's still the floor pan and bulkheads that give most of the strength just like the frame rails on a seperate frame/chassis construction.

Although I think the Crown Vic uses a perimiter frame type chassis ? it's obvious that the side impact test on the Crown Vic here was not at the best height for it's chassis rails to take any of the impact because it was impacted above that level.But as usual if it's the best tank that you need then it's probably Mercedes as usual who make the best one.But you're safer in a big car than a small one regardless of wether it's unitary construction or not.


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http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Edited by Vanishing Point, 10 October 2011 - 18:08.