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The RB8 - The 2012 Red Bull Racing car (merged)


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#201 theTruth

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 15:12

Touchy are we ?

But I can understand how painful it must ve been for you to include Button into the "Select little Club" which Ham and Alonso fans created by using the great "Cicular Logic" con after 2007.

Actually, I consider Button to be this generation's version of Prost, now that he has a top team behind him. As for anything that happened on this board before India this year, you're barking up the wrong tree.

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#202 theTruth

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 15:26

So fall back on the tried and tested "team is favoring the guy I hate" line.

Well , you are insulting Webber to be the biggest Village Idiot who lived that he cant find out what is going on!


Life in F1 is not played out at a kindergarten level, as you are suggesting it is. If Webber and Rubens were offered the chance to change rides last year, what do you think the outcome would have been? Webber is no village idiot, for sure, especially on rolling one-year contracts.

Besides I love SeaBass. F1 would be a lot less fun without him and his talent, and without the prospect that we will see his talent truly challenged in the near future when either: (1) McLaren, Ferrari, or Mercedes step up to the challenge; or (2) he faces another champion either as a Red Bull teammate, or, as a teammate somewhere else. (But not holding my breath on that second one). :yawnface:

Edited by theTruth, 29 December 2011 - 15:35.


#203 flyer121

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 15:36

Actually, I consider Button to be this generation's version of Prost, now that he has a top team behind him. As for anything that happened on this board before India this year, you're barking up the wrong tree.



You dont need to be here on the forum to see the con at work.. It has actually worked on you yourself if you think Ham and Alonso are the two greatest drivers today.

Because the only evidence of their greatness lies in baeting / matching each other in 2007 , nowhere else.

#204 maverick69

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 15:42

You dont need to be here on the forum to see the con at work.. It has actually worked on you yourself if you think Ham and Alonso are the two greatest drivers today.

Because the only evidence of their greatness lies in baeting / matching each other in 2007 , nowhere else.


Waaaaaayyyy OT..... but :rotfl:

#205 theTruth

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 15:44

Waaaaaayyyy OT..... but :rotfl:

Talk about easy pickings. . . . :lol:

#206 flyer121

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 15:45

Life in F1 is not played out at a kindergarten level, as you are suggesting it is. If Webber and Rubens were offered the chance to change rides last year, what do you think the outcome would have been? Webber is no village idiot, for sure, especially on rolling one-year contracts.

Besides I love SeaBass. F1 would be a lot less fun without him and his talent, and without the prospect that we will see his talent truly challenged in the near future when either: (1) McLaren, Ferrari, or Mercedes step up to the challenge; or (2) he faces another champion either as a Red Bull teammate, or, as a teammate somewhere else. (But not holding my breath on that second one). :yawnface:


Well what is your theory then? Spell it out.
Who knows this secret evil plan in the team. Marko - yeah sure , Horner / Newey - yeah they have to know.
Who implements the plan in place? the engineers at the factory? The boys who assemble the car at the weekends?

Thinking that such an operation is easy to execute without anyone knowing , is kinder garten stuff on th econtrary. Its simply not possible unless they dont care about anything else.

Secondly - Webber had options but didnt take (as far as rumors go) and the main reason was the BEST car he already had (not the 2.7 sec slower kind).
Lastly - it doesnt even make sense to slow your own car down when the livelihood of the teams directly depend on teh number of points scored.
More points = more ££££ and its quite independent of WDC and WCC .

Edited by flyer121, 29 December 2011 - 15:46.


#207 flyer121

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 15:47

Waaaaaayyyy OT..... but :rotfl:


Okay I know you dont have an answer - so yes its OT and lets move on. :p

#208 gillesthegenius

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 16:12

While we're at it, how great would it be if all the other cars were completely crap and Seb won every single race? How exciting!


Would drive all you guys so so crazy, wouldnt it? :lol:

#209 olliek88

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 18:27

Does anyone know or have any idea why Newey (i'm assuming its his influence) likes the "butterfly" steering wheel? as both the Mclarens from his era and RBs have that style, would be interesting to find out, i also noticed (although it might just be me) that the power steering seems to have less assist i.e. its has more kick back from the road, again i might just be seeing things.

Thanks.

#210 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 18:31

Does anyone know or have any idea why Newey (i'm assuming its his influence) likes the "butterfly" steering wheel? as both the Mclarens from his era and RBs have that style, would be interesting to find out, i also noticed (although it might just be me) that the power steering seems to have less assist i.e. its has more kick back from the road, again i might just be seeing things.

Thanks.


what would you like to hear? That he likes butterflies,, or that he has nothing to do with the shape of the steering wheel?


#211 olliek88

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 18:38

what would you like to hear? That he likes butterflies,, or that he has nothing to do with the shape of the steering wheel?


Like to hear? lol, no i am genuinely curious as to the pros/cons of a standard shape Vs the butterfly shape, my guess would be it might help lower the COG slightly or save a small amount of weight having slightly less wiring going to the steering column, if it is a bit shorter only going to the dash for the led display, but i really don't know so was wondering.



#212 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 19:05

Like to hear? lol, no i am genuinely curious as to the pros/cons of a standard shape Vs the butterfly shape, my guess would be it might help lower the COG slightly or save a small amount of weight having slightly less wiring going to the steering column, if it is a bit shorter only going to the dash for the led display, but i really don't know so was wondering.


more ergonomics than weight, layouts, and drivers preferences maybe.

#213 jamiegc

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 19:45

Does anyone know or have any idea why Newey (i'm assuming its his influence) likes the "butterfly" steering wheel? as both the Mclarens from his era and RBs have that style, would be interesting to find out, i also noticed (although it might just be me) that the power steering seems to have less assist i.e. its has more kick back from the road, again i might just be seeing things.

Thanks.


DC said a while back that Red Bull run the display on the chassis rather than the steering wheel simply so that it is always level and in the drivers eyeline. I can't believe there is even the most minute benefit.

#214 RedOne

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 19:54

Like to hear? lol, no i am genuinely curious as to the pros/cons of a standard shape Vs the butterfly shape, my guess would be it might help lower the COG slightly or save a small amount of weight having slightly less wiring going to the steering column, if it is a bit shorter only going to the dash for the led display, but i really don't know so was wondering.


It's actually something DC brought over with him from Macca, I remember him saying. Something to do with simplifying the steering wheel by having the dash seperate and easier to read a non moving dashboard or something to that effect.

#215 olliek88

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 20:19

DC said a while back that Red Bull run the display on the chassis rather than the steering wheel simply so that it is always level and in the drivers eyeline. I can't believe there is even the most minute benefit.



It's actually something DC brought over with him from Macca, I remember him saying. Something to do with simplifying the steering wheel by having the dash seperate and easier to read a non moving dashboard or something to that effect.


Aahh, cool. Cheers guys/gals. I had heard the DC story of him bringing a wheel to RB from Mclaren, i'm probably reading to much into the steering wheel design.

#216 cilurnum

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 00:50

3 SECONDS??? pmsl. no ebd, new wing tests to stop flexing.. the only way its 3 sec faster is if the new tyres allow.. then all teams will be 3 sec quicker.

The Pirellis will inevitably allow more performance next season and the structure of them is changing. The joke with the RB7 is that as the season wore on they had to take performance and downforce off the car because the tyres simply couldn't take it. This has given many the false impression that they were closer than they really were.

In reality Red Bull have a fundamentally good car and an understanding of it that doesn't rely on one whiz feature, although they do seem to be very good at coming up with them. The problem for other teams is that with the removal of the EBD, if the RB8 is really miles in front then they've got no major area of performance to play with to catch up quickly. With the EBD gone downforce generation is about being really clever and having a really tight and efficient rear end, and guess what Red Bull have?

There are two things that will really mean that other teams can wave goodbye to the championship for the next ten years - if Renault produce a very good turbo engine with the required power for 2014 and another tyre manufacturer comes into the sport where the tyres are no longer restricted like they are now. I don't see any way Red Bull aren't going to completely dominate the sport in a manner we haven't seen before.

Edited by cilurnum, 30 December 2011 - 00:51.


#217 ArtShelley

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 01:22

Well if all other cars were equally crap we could have a great scrap for 3rd place. :smoking:


Yeah! Spoken like a true fanboy :up:

#218 ArtShelley

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 01:31

The Pirellis will inevitably allow more performance next season and the structure of them is changing. The joke with the RB7 is that as the season wore on they had to take performance and downforce off the car because the tyres simply couldn't take it. This has given many the false impression that they were closer than they really were.

In reality Red Bull have a fundamentally good car and an understanding of it that doesn't rely on one whiz feature, although they do seem to be very good at coming up with them. The problem for other teams is that with the removal of the EBD, if the RB8 is really miles in front then they've got no major area of performance to play with to catch up quickly. With the EBD gone downforce generation is about being really clever and having a really tight and efficient rear end, and guess what Red Bull have?

There are two things that will really mean that other teams can wave goodbye to the championship for the next ten years - if Renault produce a very good turbo engine with the required power for 2014 and another tyre manufacturer comes into the sport where the tyres are no longer restricted like they are now. I don't see any way Red Bull aren't going to completely dominate the sport in a manner we haven't seen before.


You make some valid points but there are a couple of doubts. As you pointed out, it's well known that the RB7 was tyre limited in some races. However that wasn't the case in quali.

Secondly, a prediction of 10 years is ridiculous. That prediction completely fails to take into account developments and converging of design solutions by other teams. RBR certainly seem to have a couple of solutions that they've kept hidden from the competition but it can't be done forever. Also when we take into account the laws of diminishing performance, it seems that RBR are closer to the performance ceiling than other teams and hence there is some room for the others to improve (notwithstanding RBR suddenly inventing another magic solution for a performance leap, but the same could be said for the other top teams).

So if you really can't see any way RBR aren't going to completely dominate the sport in a manner never seen before for the next 10 years, sadly I think you are lacking foresight. Not to say that your prediction may not come true; just that it's premature.

#219 TheBunk

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 01:42

The Pirellis will inevitably allow more performance next season and the structure of them is changing. The joke with the RB7 is that as the season wore on they had to take performance and downforce off the car because the tyres simply couldn't take it. This has given many the false impression that they were closer than they really were.

In reality Red Bull have a fundamentally good car and an understanding of it that doesn't rely on one whiz feature, although they do seem to be very good at coming up with them. The problem for other teams is that with the removal of the EBD, if the RB8 is really miles in front then they've got no major area of performance to play with to catch up quickly. With the EBD gone downforce generation is about being really clever and having a really tight and efficient rear end, and guess what Red Bull have?

There are two things that will really mean that other teams can wave goodbye to the championship for the next ten years - if Renault produce a very good turbo engine with the required power for 2014 and another tyre manufacturer comes into the sport where the tyres are no longer restricted like they are now. I don't see any way Red Bull aren't going to completely dominate the sport in a manner we haven't seen before.



Well said. Lets also not forget these other teams had an engine reputedly 30bhp on the up, making the true deficit even bigger.

Its looking good for us, and Vettel will win another championship or three if nothing changes. And theres where I think we perhaps can see a problem. The FIA and their we need to spicen up the show (read: we need to save the other big teams from more embarassement) will probably be in a rule swing throughout the season in an unprecedented way. Therefore, its imperative, to bolt as many conceiling and confusing stuff on the rb8 at testing, as to have the fia, and the rivals, confused what it is that makes this another killer machine.

Frankly, the only way I see the other teams come back, is to open up mid season testing again.

Edited by TheBunk, 30 December 2011 - 01:45.


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#220 TheBunk

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 02:00

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96849

Adrian Newey says Red Bull Racing can still improve in 2012 F1 season"



"McLaren were struggling with their exhaust system.

"But they did a painfully good and quick job of copying ours between the last test and the first race, so their performance in Melbourne was unexpected.""

This is what we are adressing now. We must disguise all the new bits because these other teams devote entire working groups to analyse what we have, and copy everything our divine leader Newey designs.

#221 ArtShelley

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 09:26

Did you not know? He's Helmut Marko... the only one who'd have such a hard-on for Vettel and isn't afraid to show it...


Seb's sugar daddy or not, Helmut does know what he's talking about and he's good at what he does - as advisor to RBR, no doubt about it. I also can't imagine that he would embarrass himself posting with faux confidence about a technical topic he has no idea about (suspension geometry) or that he would spend 90% of his awake life on an internet forum, 95% of that which is spent making anti-Hamilton posts.

Nope, he's not Helmut Marko. Maybe Marko's helmut perhaps?

#222 FPV GTHO

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 09:33

While I agree with your proposed solution to the "beating Redbull" problem , I dont think that it is a problem which needs a solution.

You make it sound like World peace depends on Redbull 's downfall. Are you proposing FIA should actively disadvantage a team. Why shud McLaren / Ferrari winning be different from Redbull winning ?

Perhaps this is yopur own point of View as a fan which you are passing off as gemneral viewpoint inadverantly ... but even then I have raely seen a fan who likes both Ferrari and Mclaren , so the only conclusion is that you are just Redbull hater.

BTW- it also might be that RBR is a top shelf team because of Vettel - Just saying


I'm not going to post anymore than you've completely misread my post. I could really not give a damn about the pacifier-in-mouth Ferrari and often whiter than white McLaren.

#223 Concorde

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 10:12

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96849

Adrian Newey says Red Bull Racing can still improve in 2012 F1 season"

Sounds ominous :up:

#224 flyer121

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 10:16

I'm not going to post anymore than you've completely misread my post. I could really not give a damn about the pacifier-in-mouth Ferrari and often whiter than white McLaren.


Guess I did. Apologies.

#225 Requin

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 17:51

I cannot wait to see RB8. I noticed during testing last year, Newey was, like most other Technical directors, giving the Williams gearbox the once-over. I wonder if he'll try make it work on RB8

#226 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 12:26

DC said a while back that Red Bull run the display on the chassis rather than the steering wheel simply so that it is always level and in the drivers eyeline. I can't believe there is even the most minute benefit.

I can't see it really being ideal... the driver's arm are blocking the read-out in the corner. Sure not all drivers chart their progress by their apex speed, but I think some do.

As soon as Ron is gone, McLaren don't need to be so over the top about not ever following Ferrari's idea anymore... in a couple of races time they have a regular steering wheel with a readout on it as invented by Ferrari...

Coincidence?




I am not sure to be convinced that Newey wouldn't do it to save 35 grams. The RBR is the only car where the "legs" of the headrest intersect with where the drivers are turning the darn car, such that they need to make cut-outs in it...! Must be the most minute of advantage - "driver comfort, what is this driver comfort you speak off" :confused:  ;)

#227 F.M.

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 13:34

RB8 will be an evolution again.

"It's still an evolution," Newey told ESPNF1. "The changes for next year are principally a ban on exhaust blown diffusers and a change to the nose height. I don't feel that that means you have to have a wholesale change of the underpinnings of the car. So RB8 will be the fourth generation of the car that started off as RB5."

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/67291.html

Edited by F.M., 02 January 2012 - 13:34.


#228 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 13:39

So we expect a car with a tight rear-end,and great aero performance

#229 Zava

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 19:09

joseluisf1 (on the 1st of january)
From the same source, RB8 initially was 3 tenths slower than the RB7, managed to increase downforce and much faster now

edit: and an older one:

TruzoneF1 (on the 31st of decembre)
@ joseluisf1 It is estimated to lose about each: Ferrari (0.3s) RedBull (0.5-0.7s), McLaren (0.7-1s)

so it is estimated that all cars lose pace compared to this year, but the RB8 is already faster than the RB7? gah, that could become the most boring year if true.

Edited by Zava, 02 January 2012 - 19:13.


#230 Jovanotti

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 19:16

I hope they are all close together, but let's wait for the first tests, these Twitter speculations are absolutely useless...

Edited by Jovanotti, 02 January 2012 - 19:16.


#231 Crossmax

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 21:26

These Twitter speculations are absolutely useless...

:up:

These speculations say absolutely nothing. In fact, I think it would be better not to post them here, in case there are people actually considering them reliable.

#232 olliek88

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 22:43

I'm going to go all James Allen now.

My sources tell me that the Red Bull mechanics are going back to work tomorrow to start working with the RB8 for the first time.  ;)

#233 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 23:16

I love the drivel this Twitter feed produces. Take this cautiously.... :lol: From the Twitter feed that is posting everything under the sun so that Ferrari fans can convince themselves that things will be fine next season.

But why would he then tweet something that does the exact opposite of convincing Ferrari fans?

#234 Requin

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 00:32

Guys, think about it.

What we know
- EBD is banned
- KERS output per lap remains the same
- Frozen v8s are still to be used.
- Newey has said RB8 will be an evolution of RB7

Now, does it make sense that it would be faster than RB7? Especially considering what we saw at Silverstone?

#235 Zava

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 00:47

Guys, think about it.

What we know
- EBD is banned
- KERS output per lap remains the same
- Frozen v8s are still to be used.
- Newey has said RB8 will be an evolution of RB7

Now, does it make sense that it would be faster than RB7? Especially considering what we saw at Silverstone?

actually RBR only used 2/3 of the KERS output in 2011.

#236 theTruth

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 01:15

actually RBR only used 2/3 of the KERS output in 2011.

Well they'll need all of it this year, to make up for that superb EBD, which, by the way, means they will be weaker in the corners, where much of their advantage was gained.

#237 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 01:41

Secondly - Webber had options but didnt take (as far as rumors go) and the main reason was the BEST car he already had (not the 2.7 sec slower kind).
Lastly - it doesnt even make sense to slow your own car down when the livelihood of the teams directly depend on teh number of points scored.

Of course it is not slowed down (you don't metion the front wing at Silverstone for some reason though)...


However you know full well that some of the set-up is hard-wired into the race car. Not everything can be changed with shocks and springs and roll-bars. And depending on other decisions the teams have made, many combinations of these won't work on the car. Fortunately both Jenson and Lewis get along with McLaren's uncomfortably stiff baseline suspension set-up, however Jenson IS allowed different brakes and different suspension geometry, which means he, personally, can go faster as this stuff is better suited to his driving style. Stuff which Webber is not allowed compared to Vettel. Pretty simple. You ignore how Webber was easily able to chuck the car around and use all the road in Germany qualifying when it actually handled properly (driving in a Vettelesque or Hamiltonesque manner you might say...). Meanwhile, Vettel struggled with lack of tyre temperature in the same session. Do you really think this is merely a coincidence? Of course not to say Webber (who does of course also make mistakes, run wide, miss apexes etc, apparently more than Vettel) would be beating Vettel, but the gap a lot of the time would certainly be less IMO.

Do you think Vettel would fair well at Ferrari for example, having to run with Alonso's understeering baseline setup being hardwired into the car? Raikkonen did have much or any margin over the against apparently lower quality Massa after all, with similar setup differences and Massa's being the team's preferred development direction at the time. And Alonso having such a gap over Massa...










Anyhow on topic, why wouldn't it be faster than the RB7? They have spent another 200m or 250m EURO on it, that makes it go faster even without an EBD! i.e. it is a billion dollar car all up. Plus the billion odd spent on the RB2-4 getter technologies and techniques refined. They spent more money developing it than is spent on a Volkswagen Golf or Toyota Tundra etc.

I'm sure they will find other aero loopholes most probably. No one predicted F-duct or EBD...

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 03 January 2012 - 01:52.


#238 flyer121

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 02:30

Of course it is not slowed down (you don't metion the front wing at Silverstone for some reason though)...


However you know full well that some of the set-up is hard-wired into the race car. Not everything can be changed with shocks and springs and roll-bars. And depending on other decisions the teams have made, many combinations of these won't work on the car. Fortunately both Jenson and Lewis get along with McLaren's uncomfortably stiff baseline suspension set-up, however Jenson IS allowed different brakes and different suspension geometry, which means he, personally, can go faster as this stuff is better suited to his driving style. Stuff which Webber is not allowed compared to Vettel. Pretty simple. You ignore how Webber was easily able to chuck the car around and use all the road in Germany qualifying when it actually handled properly (driving in a Vettelesque or Hamiltonesque manner you might say...). Meanwhile, Vettel struggled with lack of tyre temperature in the same session. Do you really think this is merely a coincidence? Of course not to say Webber (who does of course also make mistakes, run wide, miss apexes etc, apparently more than Vettel) would be beating Vettel, but the gap a lot of the time would certainly be less IMO.

Do you think Vettel would fair well at Ferrari for example, having to run with Alonso's understeering baseline setup being hardwired into the car? Raikkonen did have much or any margin over the against apparently lower quality Massa after all, with similar setup differences and Massa's being the team's preferred development direction at the time. And Alonso having such a gap over Massa...










Anyhow on topic, why wouldn't it be faster than the RB7? They have spent another 200m or 250m EURO on it, that makes it go faster even without an EBD! i.e. it is a billion dollar car all up. Plus the billion odd spent on the RB2-4 getter technologies and techniques refined. They spent more money developing it than is spent on a Volkswagen Golf or Toyota Tundra etc.

I'm sure they will find other aero loopholes most probably. No one predicted F-duct or EBD...


The context of my post wasnt the one which you took.

Some one suggested webbos car is 2'7 sec slower ( interesting choice of the random number ) hence the retort coz that soesnt make sense.

Now what you are saying is slightly different, and its to do with Webber s style not suiting the car ... Its not the same as the car deliberately designed with a perf deficit of the random number of secs. To make two diferent cars just to harm your own driver is a bit delusional to even say on a forum. Its simply fan jealousy that s all.

While i may agree with you that the team is not helping webbo to deal with his issues , but again there s little evidence of that.

Edited by flyer121, 03 January 2012 - 02:31.


#239 FPV GTHO

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 04:00

Guys, think about it.

What we know
- EBD is banned
- KERS output per lap remains the same
- Frozen v8s are still to be used.
- Newey has said RB8 will be an evolution of RB7

Now, does it make sense that it would be faster than RB7? Especially considering what we saw at Silverstone?


The tyres will be stronger this year. If they needed to hold back the performance last year to protect them, there will be a 2 fold gain there.

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#240 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 15:05

Guys, think about it.

What we know
- EBD is banned
- KERS output per lap remains the same
- Frozen v8s are still to be used.
- Newey has said RB8 will be an evolution of RB7

Now, does it make sense that it would be faster than RB7? Especially considering what we saw at Silverstone?

Faster? Hard to tell, as the tires will be different, and we have to measure the impact there first, which will be impossible with two different chassis.

But on topic for RB8 - since it's going to be from the same breed - RB6 and RB7, it's still going to use pull-rod (a change that Newey pioneered after FIA amended the rules) but it won't be able to benefit from its main force - the rear setup, namely the EBD, in the form we had it in 2011.
They (RBR) will have to find that lost downforce somehow, and it that regard I don't think they will put too much attention to KERS - it will be improved, but just functionally, just to work more consistently.


#241 FPV GTHO

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 15:57

I would think above anything else, the pullrod helps work the beam wing more.

#242 cilurnum

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 22:19

As you pointed out, it's well known that the RB7 was tyre limited in some races. However that wasn't the case in quali.

It was. The had to make sure they kept enough in their tyres for the start of races, and they still dominated qualifying regardless. I'm sure they could have been much faster.

Secondly, a prediction of 10 years is ridiculous. That prediction completely fails to take into account developments and converging of design solutions by other teams. RBR certainly seem to have a couple of solutions that they've kept hidden from the competition but it can't be done forever.

Not really. Red Bull are really quite dominant right now and you can still find out where their shortcomings are. They still have an engine that is lacking top end power, although I'm sure Total and Renault have bent the rules and improved a bit as other engine manufacturers have done. As for solutions, you're getting blinded by the EBD. They already have a very efficient aerodynamic car that actually magnifies any innovation that they put on it. It's not the innovation, like the EBD, itself that really matters.

The thing that hardened my opinion last season was what happened after the summer break, or in the case of other teams, what didn't happen. There were two races in Spa and Monza where other teams would have expected to have had an advantage and it was a great opportunity for them to catch up and try and make a fight of the championship. What happened was Red Bull put in a development programme to improve on the areas where they were weak, namely straight line performance in Spa and Monza, and they ended up dominating both races. What on Earth McLaren and Ferrari were doing I have no idea.

#243 cilurnum

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 22:35

Guys, think about it.

What we know
- EBD is banned
- KERS output per lap remains the same
- Frozen v8s are still to be used.
- Newey has said RB8 will be an evolution of RB7

Now, does it make sense that it would be faster than RB7? Especially considering what we saw at Silverstone?

We don't really know what happened at Silverstone. Most teams had to hastily bodge their exhaust systems to comply with what they thought the FIA was asking for. I'd hardly call what happened there representative of anything, although it did show how reliant McLaren really were on their EBD at the time.

KERS is an interesting one because the RB7 had one that had, at best, two thirds the power of those from other teams. Given that Newey has already said they underestimated the effect of KERS one of their midnight projects during the winter will be a better KERS unit that doesn't compromise their packaging next season. If they do that then it's a big advantage, because other teams are going to have to work very hard on packaging to match the RB7's aerodynamic efficiency next year.

#244 Kvothe

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 22:44

I only care about two things:

Just how tight Newey can go with the rear, will it even have a rear?

What Seb's going to call his car, anything but Pippa Middleton please.



#245 jamiegc

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 22:51

I only care about two things:

Just how tight Newey can go with the rear, will it even have a rear?

What Seb's going to call his car, anything but Pippa Middleton please.


Perky Pippa.

#246 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 15:19

Perky Pippa.

Eh, that's a good one, I hope Seb is reading the forum. :wave:
More than anything else, they will have to work with the rear - the front of the car isn't going to be changed much, as the mandatory weight distribution is still here.
Also, they won't be able to play most of the rake games, as the tolerance for the floor flex is being lowered to 3mm.

#247 FPV GTHO

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 12:32

The rake only worked with the EBD skirting the diffuser anyway.

#248 nickponty

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 16:38

Can anyone idetify this car/driver?

It's taken from the F1 Technical forum, and looks to me like an RB7, but the sidepods look to be more tapered (maybe just the angle), there doesn't seem to be an turning vanes under the nose, and the FW endplate looks different.

I'm not suggesting this is the RB8 (though it'd be great if it was) but maybe something from a straightline test that would point to what the 2012 car might look like (i.e. a lot like the RB7!)

Posted Image

#249 jrg19

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 16:40

Buemi in the car, Swiss flag on the helmet.

also the nose looks fatter and the side pods look like they point inwards?

Edited by jrg19, 12 January 2012 - 16:41.


#250 Zava

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 16:56

can you do straight line tests in the winter as well?

the sidepods are weird- they look like a melted Jabba or somethin, seems very fat at the widest part. :confused: