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The RB8 - The 2012 Red Bull Racing car (merged)


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#2501 Black Widow

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 00:50

no you just misunderstand the term "average". It's the average speed from 3 random points around the lap (S1/S2/S3 timing beams). It doesn't actually mean anything about straighline speed, which is the issue at hand here.

You may be missing my point though......

If I wanted to watch a race for top speed I would go and watch a "drag race", "top fuel" whatever you want to call it. I prefer to watch a chess match called F1 which doesn't necessarily mean the fastest car in a straight line.

Just the way I look at it, sometimes you cant have it all your own way.

BTW an average of 3 speed measurements is still a speed measurement.

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#2502 Bartel

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 00:54

You may be missing my point though......

If I wanted to watch a race for top speed I would go and watch a "drag race", "top fuel" whatever you want to call it. I prefer to watch a chess match called F1 which doesn't necessarily mean the fastest car in a straight line.

Just the way I look at it, sometimes you cant have it all your own way.

BTW an average of 3 speed measurements is still a speed measurement.

Its rare for a car to be fastest around corners and also fastest on straights, it has never been a problem for Red Bull in the past because they have always started at the front, when I say Red Bull I mean Seb. Also, Red Bull to me are still quickest through the fast corners which most definitely means more downforce.

#2503 engel

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:04

You may be missing my point though......

If I wanted to watch a race for top speed I would go and watch a "drag race", "top fuel" whatever you want to call it. I prefer to watch a chess match called F1 which doesn't necessarily mean the fastest car in a straight line.

Just the way I look at it, sometimes you cant have it all your own way.

BTW an average of 3 speed measurements is still a speed measurement.


That's fascinating but the discussion was about the car's straightline speed, and implicitly the car's ability to overtake other cars in DRS zones. And if you removed your blinders you 'd figure out Webber suffered from the same problem. Perhaps the whole I m faster than Alonso but can't freaking overtake in the stupid DRS zone pit me on lap 7 to try and get an undercut thing might have tipped you off.

Now last year's strategy of running more drag and scampering off into the distance was great, cause ... they could scamper off into the distance. This year though they can't, and the high drag strategy is hurting their ability to fight back up the field. It's not a problem for Vettel. It's a problem for both drivers.

BTW the average speed at the apex of three 20mph chicanes is still a speed measurement. It's equally irrelevant to straightline speed though.

#2504 v@sh

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:11

If RB were still the fastest through the corners, then the deficit to pole would not be so big. If you look at the sector times through the weekend, they are neither quicker or slower than the top runners so I don't see how this can be perceived as being the fastest through the corners.

They are clearly missing the EBD which is what gave them the downforce through the corners relative to their competitors. The exhaust solution is a bunch of smoke-screen IMO to tailor the car more towards Vettel's liking.

Can anyone imagine if Webber had problems being comfortable with the chassis RBR would revert to an older-spec just for him? Especially after Newey was impressed with Sauber's exhaust solution in pre-season testing (hence the exhaust update). I very much doubt so.

As for straightline speed, Williams/Lotus don't seem to have problems and they are using the same engine?

#2505 Black Widow

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:32

That's fascinating but the discussion was about the car's straightline speed, and implicitly the car's ability to overtake other cars in DRS zones. And if you removed your blinders you 'd figure out Webber suffered from the same problem. Perhaps the whole I m faster than Alonso but can't freaking overtake in the stupid DRS zone pit me on lap 7 to try and get an undercut thing might have tipped you off.
Now last year's strategy of running more drag and scampering off into the distance was great, cause ... they could scamper off into the distance. This year though they can't, and the high drag strategy is hurting their ability to fight back up the field. It's not a problem for Vettel. It's a problem for both drivers.

BTW the average speed at the apex of three 20mph chicanes is still a speed measurement. It's equally irrelevant to straightline speed though.

Strange, I didn't hear Webber bitching about it... is this just a presumption by you or do you actually have a reference to provide.

So going back to the point I was making which you seem to wish to ignore (go back and look at what I first quoted)..... lets see know, let's improve straight-line speed..... at the expense of what?



#2506 engel

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:42

Strange, I didn't hear Webber bitching about it... is this just a presumption by you or do you actually have a reference to provide.


yeah he was, but obviously your memory rivals that of a goldfish :S
last race -> http://www.planetf1....peed-is-lacking

So going back to the point I was making which you seem to wish to ignore (go back and look at what I first quoted)..... lets see know, let's improve straight-line speed..... at the expense of what?


what you posted is irrelevant. it's 3 random speeds across 3 random points on the track. It means NOTHING. It doesn't mean Vettel and Hulk were faster or fastest at anything except at those specific 3 points. Ignoring the fact you posted it as evidence of the car being straightline quick, but no biggie we 'll just put that up to you not understanding the numbers you were quoting.

Improve straight line speed at the expense of what? Drag I would imagine. But what do I know.

#2507 Black Widow

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:12

yeah he was, but obviously your memory rivals that of a goldfish :S
last race -> http://www.planetf1....peed-is-lacking


I may have the memory of a goldfish but at least I can read.

Mark Webber had very few complaints about his P4 on the Malaysian grid other than to acknowledge that Red Bull are lacking in straight line speed.


I see the words, acknowledge, I see the words "few complaints about his P4 on the Malaysian grid", I do not see anything about...

Perhaps the whole I m faster than Alonso but can't freaking overtake in the stupid DRS zone pit me on lap 7 to try and get an undercut thing might have tipped you off

So next time you wish to insult someone, please get you facts straight.

what you posted is irrelevant. it's 3 random speeds across 3 random points on the track. It means NOTHING. It doesn't mean Vettel and Hulk were faster or fastest at anything except at those specific 3 points. Ignoring the fact you posted it as evidence of the car being straightline quick, but no biggie we 'll just put that up to you not understanding the numbers you were quoting.

Improve straight line speed at the expense of what? Drag I would imagine. But what do I know.

Another incorrect assumption on your part, but then we all can't be perfect, can we?



#2508 Dunder

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:13

Strange, I didn't hear Webber bitching about it... is this just a presumption by you or do you actually have a reference to provide.

So going back to the point I was making which you seem to wish to ignore (go back and look at what I first quoted)..... lets see know, let's improve straight-line speed..... at the expense of what?


If I was to speculate, I would suggest that Vettel's complaints about the lack of top speed started before the race.

His highest recorded speeds throughout the weekend progressed as follows:

FP1 - 316.2kph
FP2 - 315.7kph
FP3 - 311.9kph
Quali - 311.5kph

Clearly a shorter 7th gear was run on Saturday compared to Friday. It is not unknown (in fact it is quite common) for drivers to be overruled by the engineers when it comes to these things.


#2509 engel

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:32

I may have the memory of a goldfish but at least I can read.



I see the words, acknowledge, I see the words "few complaints about his P4 on the Malaysian grid", I do not see anything about...

So next time you wish to insult someone, please get you facts straight.


Another incorrect assumption on your part, but then we all can't be perfect, can we?


fascinates me how you ignore what Webber said and instead focus on the editorial part of the article (yeah all the words you bolded are not Webber's, they are the editorial commentary from whoever wrote the article). So I wouldn't say you can read, I would say you can read selectively though.

also fascinates me how you see nothing in common when both RB drivers complain about their straightline speed. Perhaps next time they should do it in unison so it should register better. Or make a musical number out of it maybe?

Oh and there's no incorrect assumption on my part, I know precisely what you were trying to accomplish and I admit I find it quite entertaining

#2510 bourbon

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:58

"The decision to come here with two different cars was very much Adrian's, and a technical decision, because we want to make sure we get a direction and a clear comparison.

"We've had that; it's been a really useful exercise this weekend. The drivers were happy to go the routes that they had, so now we have got an awful lot of information through three days of running to settle on a direction moving forward."


Yeah, sure he was....

+1 What LoudHoward & Dunder said above


In that same article they were talking about developing something along the lines of the Merc DRS to improve qually speed.

#2511 Black Widow

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:00

fascinates me how you ignore what Webber said and instead focus on the editorial part of the article (yeah all the words you bolded are not Webber's, they are the editorial commentary from whoever wrote the article). So I wouldn't say you can read, I would say you can read selectively though.

also fascinates me how you see nothing in common when both RB drivers complain about their straightline speed. Perhaps next time they should do it in unison so it should register better. Or make a musical number out of it maybe?

Fascinates me how I can DIRECTLY ask you for a reference about this.....

And if you removed your blinders you 'd figure out Webber suffered from the same problem. Perhaps the whole I m faster than Alonso but can't freaking overtake in the stupid DRS zone pit me on lap 7 to try and get an undercut thing might have tipped you off.

and you come up with the reference you gave me. Stop pulling at straws. You didn't answer the question, nor can you.

Oh and there's no incorrect assumption on my part, I know precisely what you were trying to accomplish and I admit I find it quite entertaining

That about says it all, doesn't it? You know it all!


#2512 TheBunk

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:59

I wonder if Bahrain will see back that ultra flat low drag rear wing Red Bull used at Spa, Monza and Brasil last year.

#2513 walkindude

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 04:03

I wonder if Bahrain will see back that ultra flat low drag rear wing Red Bull used at Spa, Monza and Brasil last year.

Last year they had more than enough downforce at the rear to compensate for a small rear wing.And bahrain isn't a monza by any means

#2514 DILLIGAF

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 04:08

fascinates me how you ignore what Webber said and instead focus on the editorial part of the article (yeah all the words you bolded are not Webber's, they are the editorial commentary from whoever wrote the article). So I wouldn't say you can read, I would say you can read selectively though.

also fascinates me how you see nothing in common when both RB drivers complain about their straightline speed. Perhaps next time they should do it in unison so it should register better. Or make a musical number out of it maybe?

Oh and there's no incorrect assumption on my part, I know precisely what you were trying to accomplish and I admit I find it quite entertaining


Enough with the patronising attitude mate. :down:

You may think you're a real wit but i get the sense that's only half true.  ;)

#2515 TheBunk

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:59

Last year they had more than enough downforce at the rear to compensate for a small rear wing.And bahrain isn't a monza by any means


Monza isnt, but Spa an Brasil have similar levels of downforce, and they used a real tiny rear wing, much smaller than the rest.

#2516 Group B

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:18

Has Octavian posted his 'screaming' version of the clip while I was gone? I'd hate to think he was just a troll would made up a lie then ran away when found out. :eek:

Edited by Group B, 17 April 2012 - 06:20.


#2517 Zava

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:28

If I was to speculate, I would suggest that Vettel's complaints about the lack of top speed started before the race.

His highest recorded speeds throughout the weekend progressed as follows:

FP1 - 316.2kph
FP2 - 315.7kph
FP3 - 311.9kph
Quali - 311.5kph

Clearly a shorter 7th gear was run on Saturday compared to Friday. It is not unknown (in fact it is quite common) for drivers to be overruled by the engineers when it comes to these things.

stop being reasonable and don't bring logic to this topic! :mad:
:up:

#2518 HoldenRT

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:25

I still don't think after China.. that Redbull are doing too badly, it's just unfortunate that F1 is sooo close this season in the top 5 teams, that you really can't afford to be off the pace at any stage, as it's much harder to get to the front in the races these days. So many cars are so competitive. You really need a good quali, good track position and good start etc.. and even then it's so close that we don't know who will win until the end. It's like a spec series now more than ever.

It also seems clear that on tracks like China, Turkey, Suzuka, Spa.. the RB8 is going to suffer quite badly unless they can do something about straight line speed, which will be hard.

Development will be very important, this year more than ever. All hope is not lost though. And the traction of the car is great.

#2519 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:50

Explaining the Red Bull dilemma
Sky Sports F1's Commentary Expert Mark Hughes on why the RB8 currently suits Mark Webber more than Sebastian Vettel - and what the turnaround reveals about both drivers' styles...

Mark Webber's qualifying advantage over Sebastian Vettel in the opening two races played a significant part in Vettel's decision to revert to the original-spec RB8 for China. Webber's qualifying advantage continued regardless.

Although we've already got used to a Red Bull that is considerably less competitive than last year, it was still a shock to see the World Champion fail to make the Q3 top-10 run-off in qualifying. Webber fared a little better, seventh fastest in the run-off, the third time in three events that Mark has out-qualified Seb, totally against the play of last year.

Sky Sports F1 Article

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#2520 McHonda

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:51

it's just unfortunate that F1 is sooo close this season in the top 5 teams,

Quite opposite I think we are fourtunate this season. Do not want someone to dominate. Last year was one of the worse I have experienced.

#2521 iotar

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:52

http://www.auto-moto...en-4744285.html

Marko's main job is to provide excuses why Vettel is not performing. Not a word about difference to McLaren or chances of catching up.

It's funny how they're making it sound like, one: it's about driver's preferences and not performance. Two: like there were any doubts which one they were going to choose. Like it was some kind of dilemma. The one they used in early tests or the one they run in the races from the beginning. Three: like these are some driver's solutions - one Webber's and one Vettel's. Wrong: there's an earlier/temporary one and there's newer/final and better.

Spinning the reality is his main job. Keep pretending that running the old one in the race wasn't a costly mistake to accommodate one of the drivers.

#2522 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 15:02

I wonder if Bahrain will see back that ultra flat low drag rear wing Red Bull used at Spa, Monza and Brasil last year.


No that won't be possible with the RB8. They've lost way too much downforce - in relation to EVERYONE - to have the luxury of running shallower wing at the back. The RB7, remember, was cold blowing/off-throttle blowing the diffuser to a materially greater extent than any other car which afforded them a greater opportunity to reduce wing angle.

The opposite is true of the W03 this year - i.e. Mercedes is so fast in a straight line with their DDRS than they can afford to put on more downforce in qualifying than all the others.

Cheers, The Bunk!

:)

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 17 April 2012 - 15:25.


#2523 puxanando

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 17:32

http://www.auto-moto...en-4744285.html

Marko's main job is to provide excuses why Vettel is not performing.


Nothing new. They mus be very afraight that Webber would can manage this-year-car better than the german.


#2524 ZooL

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 17:39

http://www.auto-moto...en-4744285.html

Marko's main job is to provide excuses why Vettel is not performing. Not a word about difference to McLaren or chances of catching up.

It's funny how they're making it sound like, one: it's about driver's preferences and not performance. Two: like there were any doubts which one they were going to choose. Like it was some kind of dilemma. The one they used in early tests or the one they run in the races from the beginning. Three: like these are some driver's solutions - one Webber's and one Vettel's. Wrong: there's an earlier/temporary one and there's newer/final and better.

Spinning the reality is his main job. Keep pretending that running the old one in the race wasn't a costly mistake to accommodate one of the drivers.


Gives you an insight into why Marko is too afraid to let Hamilton join RBR.

#2525 EvanRainer

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 20:44

Bzzz buzzing the mods. Hamilton crap invading this thread again.

#2526 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 20:57

Comparison of exhaust solutions/iterations(newest) from Malaysia to China.

Posted Image

#2527 EvanRainer

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 22:13

Being late with the development of the exhaust an still trying out all this configurations is simply the reality of the situation this year. But still being unable to clearly identify which one is best is what is worrying. They need to figure out the car and they need to do it yesterday. It's not just about extracting more performance, if they don't have a clear development path going into Mugello it will end up costing them big, even with the season being as tight as it is.

#2528 PNSD

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 22:27

Sounds like China gave them a better idea, the thing is Vettel prefered the slower one. That's the issue right now.

#2529 EvanRainer

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 22:30

Nah, I'm pretty sure they will go with the newer one. The problem seems to me that they don't know yet how to improve the car's handling and setup issues as every config they have used has had more or less the same net result.

#2530 4MEN

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 23:04

Comparison of exhaust solutions/iterations(newest) from Malaysia to China.

Posted Image

I don't see much difference. :well:

#2531 Bartel

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 23:37

I don't see much difference. :well:

Could be the different angle but the China spec appears to have more of a scoop at the bottom of the exhaust exit.

#2532 flyer121

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 00:39

5667536[/url]']
Gives you an insight into why Marko is too afraid to let Hamilton join RBR.


Bull shit ... Right now nobody is afraid of hamilton. Maybe except Massa :cool:
If they had to be afraid as you put it , it would be Button ! He s the real threat...

#2533 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:51

If people think that Newey isn't going to go with the faster development - irrespective of whether Seb "likes" it or not - then they don't know anything about Grand Prix racing.

Only a brainless baboon would think Newey is going to go with a slower solution.

Stupidity Galore!

But seriously, if Vettel is an 'All Time Great In The Making', then he'll "adapt" and get on with it. Newey - already an "All Time Great" himself - will expect Vettel to "get on with it".

It's that simple!

All this giberish about Marko and the "politics" of this-that-or-the-other is irrelevent to Newey. All he cares about is beating McLaren and Ferrari and, now, Mercedes. He ain't gonna do that by going the slower route. He ain't dumb and stupid.

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 18 April 2012 - 02:10.


#2534 Bartel

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:50

If people think that Newey isn't going to go with the faster development - irrespective of whether Seb "likes" it or not - then they don't know anything about Grand Prix racing.

Only a brainless baboon would think Newey is going to go with a slower solution.

Stupidity Galore!

But seriously, if Vettel is an 'All Time Great In The Making', then he'll "adapt" and get on with it. Newey - already an "All Time Great" himself - will expect Vettel to "get on with it".

It's that simple!

All this giberish about Marko and the "politics" of this-that-or-the-other is irrelevent to Newey. All he cares about is beating McLaren and Ferrari and, now, Mercedes. He ain't gonna do that by going the slower route. He ain't dumb and stupid.

I think you completely missed the point of certain posters in relation to 'it may be faster, but if he isn't comfortable with it, it may for him turn out to be slower'.

In other words, it may be faster in the data, but if Seb isn't comfortable with it, it may turn out to be as fast as the old one, or slower. Confidence in a car alone is worth a few tenths, and if you don't have confidence in what the car is going to do next, you won't be driving it on the limit to get that 'extra' performance it 'should' bring you. Not everyone is stupid, but I don't think you took this into consideration.

#2535 bonjon1979a

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:56

Comparison of exhaust solutions/iterations(newest) from Malaysia to China.

Posted Image


Did you take these photos?

#2536 One

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:57

I think you completely missed the point of certain posters in relation to 'it may be faster, but if he isn't comfortable with it, it may for him turn out to be slower'.

In other words, it may be faster in the data, but if Seb isn't comfortable with it, it may turn out to be as fast as the old one, or slower. Confidence in a car alone is worth a few tenths, and if you don't have confidence in what the car is going to do next, you won't be driving it on the limit to get that 'extra' performance it 'should' bring you. Not everyone is stupid, but I don't think you took this into consideration.


I doubt if this is true.

Often in carting man say that an easy cart is not an fast cart.

I assume Vettel is bringing up excuses not to accept his space for growth. Ibelieve that Newey knows pretty much which direction it should go, but the car is not easy car to drive, which Vettel feels very nerous about. It is interesting tho that the RB is now splits in two. We will see how performance develops. I am assuming that in Bahrain we will see yet again the two driving two different cars, as in China the result was not clear. Old, or New.

Naturally I shout New! It is faster.

#2537 Bartel

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:31

I doubt if this is true.

Often in carting man say that an easy cart is not an fast cart.

I assume Vettel is bringing up excuses not to accept his space for growth. Ibelieve that Newey knows pretty much which direction it should go, but the car is not easy car to drive, which Vettel feels very nerous about. It is interesting tho that the RB is now splits in two. We will see how performance develops. I am assuming that in Bahrain we will see yet again the two driving two different cars, as in China the result was not clear. Old, or New.

Naturally I shout New! It is faster.

In all fairness, karting isnt Formula 1 and if you go back to McLaren in 2006 with Kimi and Montoya, kimi had the better front wing but montoya couldnt get a good balance with it so changed to the shape that was later used in 2007/8 and that was driver preference, the 'swoop' front wing was designed for the 26 and the car was optimised around it but juan didnt like it. Similar circumstances.

#2538 One

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:52

In all fairness, karting isnt Formula 1 and if you go back to McLaren in 2006 with Kimi and Montoya, kimi had the better front wing but montoya couldnt get a good balance with it so changed to the shape that was later used in 2007/8 and that was driver preference, the 'swoop' front wing was designed for the 26 and the car was optimised around it but juan didnt like it. Similar circumstances.


Thanx.

But I stil do not conclude that Kimi had a easy car to drive than what Montoya had. Keep in mind they both have different driveing style. Good comparison between Massa dn kimi during the Ferrai 2009 coul dbe also a good comparison, but AFAK, Kimi wanted pointy nose not because itis easier to drive, but because it was quicker for him.

#2539 FPV GTHO

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:57

http://scarbsf1.word...per-capacitors/

Red Bull possibly using super capacitors as part of their KERS this year.

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#2540 One

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:06

http://scarbsf1.word...per-capacitors/

Red Bull possibly using super capacitors as part of their KERS this year.


Very smart, if it is Suoercaps, but I had a shock when i was kid...

BTW what a waist, le F1 use all Energy havesting from brake!!! and Get rid of DRS...

#2541 iotar

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:07

In all fairness, karting isnt Formula 1 and if you go back to McLaren in 2006 with Kimi and Montoya, kimi had the better front wing but montoya couldnt get a good balance with it so changed to the shape that was later used in 2007/8 and that was driver preference, the 'swoop' front wing was designed for the 26 and the car was optimised around it but juan didnt like it. Similar circumstances.

Not similar, completely different.

[from McLaren guy from McLaren thread] Kimi and Montoya had completely different styles/set up preferences. Front suspension, engine maps, other major problems. It's certainly not a case with Webber/Vettel in their fourth season together. Nevermind their building the team around Vettel approach. With one exceptions of on/off throttle blown diffuser. Even that I don't think was that simple.

The whole exhaust is made up/blown out of proportions thing to give excuses for Vettel's performance. Another attempt to marketing wise cover the reality. All it takes is call the regular, planned by the team and faster solution "Webber's" and life seems suddenly simple.




#2542 Bartel

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:25

Thanx.

But I stil do not conclude that Kimi had a easy car to drive than what Montoya had. Keep in mind they both have different driveing style. Good comparison between Massa dn kimi during the Ferrai 2009 coul dbe also a good comparison, but AFAK, Kimi wanted pointy nose not because itis easier to drive, but because it was quicker for him.

I wasnt saying that at all. I was simply saying that different drivers find different things comfortable, in Juans case, he went slower with the faster front wing, because he wasn't comfortable with it, even with the front wing that asn't as fast as the 'optimal' he was faster than he would have been with the same wing as Kimi. All comes back to driver confidence. There would have been more cases than just this one over the year. One thinks back to Nick Heidfeld and mark Webber in 2005 at Silverstone I believe it was, or it could have been Magny-Course, Williams brought a B-spec car that was faster, but Heidfeld hated it so he used the car from the earlier part of the season whereas Mark used the B-spec car.

Edited by Bartel, 18 April 2012 - 09:26.


#2543 One

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:02

I wasnt saying that at all. I was simply saying that different drivers find different things comfortable, in Juans case, he went slower with the faster front wing, because he wasn't comfortable with it, even with the front wing that asn't as fast as the 'optimal' he was faster than he would have been with the same wing as Kimi. All comes back to driver confidence. There would have been more cases than just this one over the year. One thinks back to Nick Heidfeld and mark Webber in 2005 at Silverstone I believe it was, or it could have been Magny-Course, Williams brought a B-spec car that was faster, but Heidfeld hated it so he used the car from the earlier part of the season whereas Mark used the B-spec car.


Well I got in this circle! At least I do understand what you are saying and what I am... haha.

You can feel comfortale in a race car in different reasons as the racer, while being actually comfortable will never be the case you know what I mean.
1. You can drive a car easier than other cars. Easines given priolity in driving.
2. You feel comfortablebecause you know you can go quicker. Quick time given prioloty.


I guess both Kimi and Montoya follows 2, where they have to work a lot to run slightly difficult car but the one that makes a better lap time.

#2544 Dunder

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:13

http://scarbsf1.word...per-capacitors/

Red Bull possibly using super capacitors as part of their KERS this year.


Interesting article.


#2545 One

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:16

Interesting article.


Sounds like RB is increasing the energy storage with Super cap??

#2546 Dunder

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:33

Sounds like RB is increasing the energy storage with Super cap??


That would make sense, last year's 'KERS-lite' was a real weakness and having a good solution will be very important going forward with TERS coming in 2014.

Battery packs have improved a lot since we first had KERS in 2009 and we can expect that to continue, so development in this area will be interesting going forward.


#2547 Jon83

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:46

Nothing new. They mus be very afraight that Webber would can manage this-year-car better than the german.


I suspect RBR want both drivers to get the very best out of the package, as they will always have done.

There's also very little actual evidence to back up that Webber is managing the car better. Vettel has done a good job so far this season in a car which is clearly not, at this moment, going to bring them the success that previous ones have.

#2548 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:29

People, people, people...

All that's separating Vettel from having similar/more points than Webber is an unfortunate incident with a back-marker (HRT, Malaysia).

Last year was an anomoly: Webber isn't as shit as 2011 showed...and Vettel isn't 'Another Fangio' either. Not yet.

They're both very good drivers - one slightly faster than the other - and, as history will end up showing ultimately, there is only about a tenth or a tenth-and-a-half difference between them.

In this case, Vettel will simply have to adapt. He's young and good enough to do so. Lucky for the RBR guys that Button hit an HRT and Hamilton's had an unfortunate series of things go wrong for him that's been more down to McLaren/MP4-27 than to himself.

VET is still in the game and has everything to play for.

#2549 Pamphlet

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 20:33

People, people, people...

All that's separating Vettel from having similar/more points than Webber is an unfortunate incident with a back-marker (HRT, Malaysia).

Last year was an anomoly: Webber isn't as shit as 2011 showed...and Vettel isn't 'Another Fangio' either. Not yet.

They're both very good drivers - one slightly faster than the other - and, as history will end up showing ultimately, there is only about a tenth or a tenth-and-a-half difference between them.

In this case, Vettel will simply have to adapt. He's young and good enough to do so. Lucky for the RBR guys that Button hit an HRT and Hamilton's had an unfortunate series of things go wrong for him that's been more down to McLaren/MP4-27 than to himself.

VET is still in the game and has everything to play for.


You've said it better than I ever could. Both Vettel and Webber still have everything to play for.

#2550 lbennie

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:04

I have noticed how the McLaren fans have stopped gloating in this thread lately.

looking at the championship standings, Lewis & Jenson must be rather ordinary, considering how supposedly rubbish the RB8 is.....