Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 10 votes

The RB8 - The 2012 Red Bull Racing car (merged)


  • Please log in to reply
3538 replies to this topic

#3451 H2H

H2H
  • Member

  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:41

Red Bull RB8 new rear wing in Austin

http://www.formula1....2/882/1027.html


Interesting. AMuS has a nice picture.

Posted Image

It seems to be pretty much an evolution of one of the RB8 lineages of endplates.

Advertisement

#3452 Kelateboy

Kelateboy
  • Member

  • 5,791 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:50

The funny thing is that they installed and tested a new rear wing, but had green flow-vis on the front wing of Vettel's car for all 3 practice sessions.

#3453 H2H

H2H
  • Member

  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:57

Just saw the speed trap - a 1-2, RBR dead last. The intermediate maximum speeds look pretty good, especially E1. McLaren looks competitive also looking at the best sector times, at least with Lewis and not with with Jenson which is no surprise given that he could not drive the last laps in which the track became considerably faster.

Edited by H2H, 18 November 2012 - 09:59.


#3454 STRFerrari4Ever

STRFerrari4Ever
  • Member

  • 1,723 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:54

WCC X3

Great job by everyone, this has been the most challenging constructors title for the team and all their hard work has paid off handsomely.

#3455 Slowinfastout

Slowinfastout
  • Member

  • 9,681 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:13

I remember reading they had reverted to 2011 alternators after the failures earlier in the season, and that by Austin they'd have to use the new ones again.

Well, we saw what happened.. good luck in Brazil because if the Vettel one fails I can sense a partnership unravelling faster than you can say Magnetti Marelli.

#3456 Crossmax

Crossmax
  • Member

  • 983 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:42

Those f*****g alternators are just unbelievable. Learnt nothing at all, have they? Or to quote Lewis Hamilton: "It's a joke, an absolute frikkin' joke".

:down:

#3457 2ms

2ms
  • Member

  • 2,212 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 19 November 2012 - 00:35

I am very suspicious of sabotage at Red Bull this season.

#3458 DanardiF1

DanardiF1
  • Member

  • 6,469 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 19 November 2012 - 00:54

I am very suspicious of sabotage at Red Bull this season.


I'm very suspicious of statements like that...

Sabotage by who? Marko? Ferrari? God?

#3459 plumtree

plumtree
  • Member

  • 712 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:09

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104390

Adrian Newey, Chief Technical Officer: "It's been an amazing year. To achieve the hat trick is a tremendous tribute to the whole team. It shows we've managed to keep our standards up and keep consistency. The hard work, the dedication, the talent of the people back in Milton Keynes – that's what this is all about. I hope they are celebrating and having a drink tonight. We are always thinking how we can improve the car and what we can do in the coming races. It's been a difficult year and unfortunately my pre-season concerns proved to be right. Having developed the car around side exhaust technology for the last two years, losing that was a bigger step back for us than our competitors and it's been quite a difficult evolution to get the car back to where we wanted. Getting a third title shows we're not a flash in the pan; we've managed to stay at the top, to understand the car and maintain consistency which is not easy at all. The first title was amazing because when I left McLaren for Red Bull, it was a bit of a career gamble, I was joining with a dream of perhaps trying to win races in the future with the team that I'd been involved with more or less from the start. To actually fulfil that dream and to achieve three titles has been amazing. We can all have dreams, but to do it is something special. It's not just me personally but it's the whole team and this is a tribute to everyone within it."

***

Christian Horner concedes alternator problems are a worry
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104395

... Although engine partner Renault has been trialling new specification alternators in Austin this weekend with its other teams, Red Bull elected to stick with the older versions that had previously proved trouble-free.

While Red Bull and Renault conduct a detailed evaluation of what has gone wrong, Horner said that the situation was far from ideal heading to the season finale in Brazil.

"It is just a worry, full stop," he explained. "Unfortunately it is the third alternator [failure in a race] that we have had, and obviously there have been other failures in other cars. We need to get it back to look in to it.

"I think the new version has raced on other engine cycles [at other teams], so hopefully that is what we will have for Brazil." ...

It wasn't a new alternator. It looks like a very tricky situation.

Advertisement

#3460 ThomFi

ThomFi
  • Member

  • 624 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:12

....
Christian Horner concedes alternator problems are a worry
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104395

... Although engine partner Renault has been trialling new specification alternators in Austin this weekend with its other teams, Red Bull elected to stick with the older versions that had previously proved trouble-free.

While Red Bull and Renault conduct a detailed evaluation of what has gone wrong, Horner said that the situation was far from ideal heading to the season finale in Brazil.

"It is just a worry, full stop," he explained. "Unfortunately it is the third alternator [failure in a race] that we have had, and obviously there have been other failures in other cars. We need to get it back to look in to it.

"I think the new version has raced on other engine cycles [at other teams], so hopefully that is what we will have for Brazil." ...

It wasn't a new alternator. It looks like a very tricky situation.


According to AMuS, Webber's alternator in Austin was even the 7th failure this year.
Petrov in Monaco, Vettel and Grosjean in Valencia, d'Ambrosio, Webber and Vettel in Monza.
Including the Pirelli test car, it's even the 8th failure.

Edited by ThomFi, 19 November 2012 - 04:12.


#3461 H2H

H2H
  • Member

  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:38

First of all:

WCC.

Third time in row. A fantastic job by all the guys and girls from RBR. It is a bit of a shame that yesterday the McLaren was a bit more competitive and that I was right to be careful about the relative performance of cars on a fully rubbered track.

P.S: And yes, the alternator issue is deeply troubling. Such a relative cheap element which really has no impact on the performance differential can not fail so often.

Edited by H2H, 19 November 2012 - 09:39.


#3462 sv401

sv401
  • Member

  • 740 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:46

So, it was not the new "fixed" 2012 alternator that failed in Webber's car after all, but rather an old spec one (maybe a remaining 2011 alternator with a lot of mileage) that the team ironically put in the car in the hope of better reliability ? In some sense, that is good news, since no latest spec Renault alternator has failed then, but it is not known how it will work in the RB8 in Brazil. I do not know why the team did not use the upgraded version in Webber's car for testing (and then in both cars in Brazil if everything is OK), though.

Edited by sv401, 19 November 2012 - 09:48.


#3463 sv401

sv401
  • Member

  • 740 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:06

Some interesting stats for the WDC chances:

The races where Vettel finished worse than 4th or retired this year were:
- Malaysia (accident with Karthikeyan, would have been at least 4th otherwise)
- China (5th, lack of pace in qualifying, tyre drop-off at the end of the race because of gambling on fewer pit stops)
- Spain (6th, slow qualifying pace, possibly bad setup, drive through penalty)
- Valencia (DNF from lead because of alternator failure)
- Hockenheim (drive through penalty from 2nd place, maybe 3rd if not trying to overtake Button)
- Monza (DNF because of alternator failure, also drive through penalty before that, 5th place would have been possible at best without problems)
Of these races, Alonso has failed to gain the necessary 14 or more points relative to Vettel in China and Spain. Therefore, a repeat of 4 out of the previous 19 races would allow the Spaniard to win the WDC.

What this shows is that the single biggest threat is unreliability (alternators in particular), followed by racing incidents, penalties, and bad tyre strategy. The last three can be avoided/minimized by a more conservative approach to the race. It is rather unlikely that Alonso would win the WDC because of the RB8 simply not being fast enough; lack of pace was only an issue in the first half of the season.

#3464 David1976

David1976
  • Member

  • 811 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:42

The RB8 truly is an epic car, as the RB7 and RB6 were before it.

Red Bull have cleverly managed to maintain their superiority from year-to-year which is a testament to their team- and mainly Adrian Newey. Had they started this year with a better qualifying car the could well have added 3 or 4 more victories to their impressive tally.



#3465 apoka

apoka
  • Member

  • 3,482 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:15

Any early predictions on whether the RB8 will be good in Interlagos?

Do you think the car will be good in case of mixed conditions (60% chance of rain on Saturday and Sunday at the moment)?

Edited by apoka, 19 November 2012 - 12:15.


#3466 encircled

encircled
  • Member

  • 772 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:21

It should be okay I think. Last time we had wet qualifying sessions, the results was FA and the two Red Bulls. The unknowns are how will McLaren perform in the wet as they were weak back then, and Lotus are weak in the wet as well.

Massa isn't that good on the wet although for some reason he was really good during the 2008 wet Brazilian GP. As long as Seb is on the sharp end of the grid it should be fine IMO.

#3467 Zava

Zava
  • Member

  • 4,965 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 19 November 2012 - 13:41

I have doubts about ferrari being as mega in wet as they were in this season, recently they have tyre heating issues (check austin q, abu dhabi SC restarts) while in the beginning of the year that was one of the strong traits of the car.

#3468 joshb

joshb
  • Member

  • 3,220 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 19 November 2012 - 13:49

Any early predictions on whether the RB8 will be good in Interlagos?

Do you think the car will be good in case of mixed conditions (60% chance of rain on Saturday and Sunday at the moment)?


Good enough for Vettel to get 4th or better
Hopefully reliable enough to get him there at the end.

#3469 george1981

george1981
  • Member

  • 695 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 19 November 2012 - 13:52

Does anybody have a transcript of Adrian Newey's interview with Sky after the race? He was very critical of the alternator situation, he said something along the lines of it's been a problem since 2005 and hasn't been changed.

#3470 Zava

Zava
  • Member

  • 4,965 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 19 November 2012 - 13:55

Does anybody have a transcript of Adrian Newey's interview with Sky after the race? He was very critical of the alternator situation, he said something along the lines of it's been a problem since 2005 and hasn't been changed.

http://thejudge13.co...stin-gp-review/

Red Bull and Newey: Talking to Damon Hill admits he’s ‘very concerned’ over the alternator issue and it could strike at any moment in time. They had a batch of the 2011 units left following the failures in the summer, but not enough to get to the end of the season.

I can’t believe that they didn’t keep back enough old alternators for Sebastian and get Webber on the newer and dodgy ones before Vettel. Whilst Newey is never going to be seen ranting and raving, but he was fairly dismissive and frustrated over the alternator matter – “We had this problem first 2005 so you can see how long it’s taking Renault to deal with it”. By Newey standards, this is scathing.



#3471 sv401

sv401
  • Member

  • 740 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 19 November 2012 - 14:36

Any early predictions on whether the RB8 will be good in Interlagos?


I would expect the Ferrari to relatively improve, and the McLaren to be relatively worse than in Abu Dhabi and Austin, assuming the weather will be dry (in the rain, anything can happen), but this is only a guess. I think McLaren was favored by the smooth, bump-free track surface at the last two races, and the low grip and low tyre wear; Ferrari probably struggled with the same conditions.
At the moment, the weather forecast shows rain on the weekend, and a huge temperature drop on Sunday from 30+C to less than 20C. However, previously the forecast was rain for this entire week, and that has since then changed to dry, sunny, and hot weather for most of the week, and rain only at the end. Maybe the forecast will evolve further in this direction, and the weekend will be dry too in the end.

#3472 ATM_Andy

ATM_Andy
  • Member

  • 1,482 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 19 November 2012 - 14:49

So, it was not the new "fixed" 2012 alternator that failed in Webber's car after all, but rather an old spec one (maybe a remaining 2011 alternator with a lot of mileage) that the team ironically put in the car in the hope of better reliability ? In some sense, that is good news, since no latest spec Renault alternator has failed then, but it is not known how it will work in the RB8 in Brazil. I do not know why the team did not use the upgraded version in Webber's car for testing (and then in both cars in Brazil if everything is OK), though.


That's what happens when you buy these cheap nasty MM parts ;)

#3473 plumtree

plumtree
  • Member

  • 712 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 19 November 2012 - 17:03

According to AMuS, Webber's alternator in Austin was even the 7th failure this year.
Petrov in Monaco, Vettel and Grosjean in Valencia, d'Ambrosio, Webber and Vettel in Monza.
Including the Pirelli test car, it's even the 8th failure.

8 times in a season... Speechless...

So, it was not the new "fixed" 2012 alternator that failed in Webber's car after all, but rather an old spec one (maybe a remaining 2011 alternator with a lot of mileage) that the team ironically put in the car in the hope of better reliability ? In some sense, that is good news, since no latest spec Renault alternator has failed then, but it is not known how it will work in the RB8 in Brazil. I do not know why the team did not use the upgraded version in Webber's car for testing (and then in both cars in Brazil if everything is OK), though.

IIRC, teams (from my understanding, including RBR) were testing newer alternators on old engines during free practice sessions. I don't know where and how many times though.


Anyway, Renault: Red Bull will use new-spec alternator in Brazil

... Renault's head of trackside operations Remi Taffin told AUTOSPORT about the plans for Brazil: "It is very simple. We go for the new spec. It has passed all the tests."

Red Bull elected not to use the newer specification, which was raced by other Renault teams, because it felt safer using the older specification that had so far proved trouble-free.

When asked why that decision had been made if the newer units had passed all reliability tests, Taffin said: "Because they are human beings and at some point as humans they have some feelings.

"It was a common decision, so we put everything on the table and we decided altogether we should go that way. We had everything to fit either the old or new design.

"But the feeling was generally that there is some sense to keep on using something that we have known for years with low mileage and stuff like that, even if we had a new solution that we knew had gone through all the tests. ...

Edited by plumtree, 19 November 2012 - 17:04.


#3474 F1Champion

F1Champion
  • Member

  • 2,922 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 19 November 2012 - 19:32

Mmm not sure that suddenly switching to the new spec is a good idea - I know it should be more reliable but crazy things happen in F1 with better parts not working.

PS - Seb must be ruing trying to overtake Button in Hockenheim - without it he would have nearly won the WDC by now.

#3475 andy135

andy135
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 19 November 2012 - 20:16

Wanted: Alternator for Renault Clio. Must have seven day's warranty remaining.

Details to Sebastian Vettel, C/O Red Bull Racing.

#3476 KnucklesAgain

KnucklesAgain
  • Member

  • 4,654 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:10

Congrats to Seb, congrats to RBR. It was close in the end, but a deserved WDC.

#3477 H2H

H2H
  • Member

  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:13

Congrats to Seb, congrats to RBR. It was close in the end, but a deserved WDC.


:up:

It was not the fastest car, it was not the most reliable car ( MM alternators!) but with it Seb got his third WDC and RBR the third WCC in a row. Very well done guys and girls. :clap:

#3478 STRFerrari4Ever

STRFerrari4Ever
  • Member

  • 1,723 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:31

Started off on the backfoot but they finished on top.

Congratulations to RBR, Sebastian and Mark. A great effort and 2 more titles in the bag.

#3479 EvanRainer

EvanRainer
  • Member

  • 1,364 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:23

While I am looking forward to them not having to rush through the winter and seeing the RB9 being a refined masterpiece, there's some things I want to see them improve upon:

-The team must do something about the terrible starts. Lets face it, it can't all be down to Webber's shitty starts, they seem to be behind in launch control tech.

-There were still way, WAY too many KERS failures (poor Webber suffering from most).

-Goes without saying we shouldn't see the alternator saga again...but that's on Renault.

Advertisement

#3480 F.M.

F.M.
  • Member

  • 5,577 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:34

Vettel on the RB8:

It was important we kept believing and since the start of season we were fighting with our car, a car that wasn't similar to last year. I couldn't use my tricks or my style to make it work and manipulate it, I didn't have enough rear stability to work with the brakes and get car to corner/apex – we tried everything and I think at some stage we did a step that was big enough and in the right direction that allowed me to do more that I like.
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104593

#3481 prty

prty
  • Member

  • 5,161 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:55

Vettel on the RB8:

It was important we kept believing and since the start of season we were fighting with our car, a car that wasn't similar to last year. I couldn't use my tricks or my style to make it work and manipulate it, I didn't have enough rear stability to work with the brakes and get car to corner/apex – we tried everything and I think at some stage we did a step that was big enough and in the right direction that allowed me to do more that I like.
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104593


So basically what some of us have been saying all the way.


#3482 EvanRainer

EvanRainer
  • Member

  • 1,364 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:41

What's your point? The Red Bull is designed on a certain philosophy and the changes they were forced to make led to an incomplete and not properly functioning car in the first part of the year.

This is nothing everyone didn't already know.

#3483 H2H

H2H
  • Member

  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:57

What's your point? The Red Bull is designed on a certain philosophy and the changes they were forced to make led to an incomplete and not properly functioning car in the first part of the year.

This is nothing everyone didn't already know.


Indeed. It was all to obvious that the FIA stepped in for a number of reasons and the Red Bull lost much of the rear downforce which was integral to the overall concept of the car. They tried extremely hard to get it back as they were clearly not as quick as other competitors and the result can be seen in the whole V1.0 to V3.3 blown diffusor development.

Well done for that, an amazing amount of work went into those many many parts which got pushed to the racing car all season long. :up:

#3484 Henrytheeigth

Henrytheeigth
  • Member

  • 4,655 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 26 November 2012 - 13:39

It's another beautiful car that I can't wait to buy, the model that is lol :D

#3485 H2H

H2H
  • Member

  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:39


It has become a beauty. Winning certainly helps in this regard. In any way I would love to have a new edition of the 'manual we had on the RB6.



#3486 H2H

H2H
  • Member

  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:56


Marko said on Monday that he has an important meeting this week with Renault about 2013 and especially 2014. Things are moving fast in F1 and some leadtimes are pretty long. Certainly Red Bull has strenghtend their organisational, financial and technical position a lot in the last 4 years.

#3487 HoldenRT

HoldenRT
  • Member

  • 5,131 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 28 November 2012 - 13:28

Winning championships certainly helps with that. :)

#3488 joshb

joshb
  • Member

  • 3,220 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 28 November 2012 - 14:08

It's another beautiful car that I can't wait to buy, the model that is lol :D


I take it you'll get the Monaco or silverstone model!

#3489 Kelateboy

Kelateboy
  • Member

  • 5,791 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 28 November 2012 - 16:16

So basically what some of us have been saying all the way.

It not exactly a secret that he did not like the car early in the season. In China, he asked (and was turned down) to race with the launched spec Winter-Testing version as he despised the new car that much. Every driver has his own driving styles and set-up preference - it is how these drivers dealt with adversities that count. A GP later, he won in Bahrain and led the World Championship.

#3490 H2H

H2H
  • Member

  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:24


Homecoming for the WCC and WDC :up:

Seems like you are not the only one snatching up car models..  ;)

#3491 CrucialXtreme

CrucialXtreme
  • Member

  • 3,970 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 29 November 2012 - 15:19

The latest, end of season RB8 updates via Piola

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
all images via Piola & AMuS

A video of the updates can be found here==> http://www.auto-moto...ll-6183945.html

You can see from the FW pic that Red Bull followed Ferrari with the 6 plane front wing.

Edited by CrucialXtreme, 29 November 2012 - 16:13.


#3492 Kelateboy

Kelateboy
  • Member

  • 5,791 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:02

FIA confirmed: “Changes made to bodywork design, originally aimed at reducing downforce and drag for increased efficiency, have reverted to 2012 specification.”

Good for Red Bull?

#3493 CrucialXtreme

CrucialXtreme
  • Member

  • 3,970 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:05

Good for Red Bull?


For sure.

#3494 shonguiz

shonguiz
  • Member

  • 1,785 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:22

Not necessairly, everyone has reached more or less the performance wall with the current set of regs, all that is left is tyre management optimasation. I think a revamp would be more beneficial for red bull.

#3495 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 2,042 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:26

Not necessairly, everyone has reached more or less the performance wall with the current set of regs, all that is left is tyre management optimasation. I think a revamp would be more beneficial for red bull.


In a way you are right, Adrian loves significant changes in the regulations, as seen by early 1990s, then the change for 1998 season came about and of course, 2009.

I think new regs would have made Adrian go for it again.... But now, a bit more stable.

#3496 H2H

H2H
  • Member

  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:57

When we look at the past fours years from a RBR point of view the RB5 truly changed game and without the DDD issue it might already enabled RBR a WCC and Seb a WDC. The RB6 was arguably pace-wise the most dominant Red Bull car but lacked reliabilty although it has to be said that quite a bit of the big failures were the fault of suppliers, like the Renault with the engines. The RB7 was not as dominant but proved to be a perfect package with Seb and the team stepped up the operational side as well. The RB8 was no longer the fastest car but had apart from KERS great in-team reliabilty. The alternator saga did cost many points but the team was operationally very mature and profited from the troubles of the one with the fastest car. Overall it is clear that other competitors have catched up and one was at the end of the season faster. 2013 will give a stabile rule environment with the DRD being the only potential obvious differentiator but who knows what the smart heads will come up with.

A bigger rule change in 2014 could have shaken up the whole sport and arguably RBR seems to be top team most capable to extract the best from a new blank sheet. Of course there would have been the risk of another competitor getting it spot on.

It was interesting but not surprising to hear Newey talk about the "frustrating" difficulties to understand the car, especially the exhaust package. Who would have said so after seeing all those different parts coming on and off. Later in the season it worked better. At least they will have collected lots and lots and lots of data which can flow into the RB9 project. All in all I'm pretty sure they won't take the McLaren path.

Edited by H2H, 06 December 2012 - 10:08.


#3497 Zava

Zava
  • Member

  • 4,965 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:06

For sure.

I think for sure not. this means that in 2014 there is no space for big aero gains in 2014 (in which Newey could excel again) only engine/mechanical gains. funny that it came right after Montezemolo crying yet again about "aero this and aero that, we want engines to be dominant factor (because we can't sort out aero)!"...
2013 no DRS in quali also will hamper RBR - again, funny that the rule change came out of the blue, right after ferrari blaming their bad quali pace on (their incompetence to figure out) DRS usage in Q.
might be a coincidence in both cases...but are we allowed to believe in coincidences? :rolleyes:

#3498 prty

prty
  • Member

  • 5,161 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:31

I think for sure not. this means that in 2014 there is no space for big aero gains in 2014 (in which Newey could excel again) only engine/mechanical gains. funny that it came right after Montezemolo crying yet again about "aero this and aero that, we want engines to be dominant factor (because we can't sort out aero)!"...
2013 no DRS in quali also will hamper RBR - again, funny that the rule change came out of the blue, right after ferrari blaming their bad quali pace on (their incompetence to figure out) DRS usage in Q.
might be a coincidence in both cases...but are we allowed to believe in coincidences? :rolleyes:


Funny also the homologated engines giving advantage to Renault cars, and the "application" of the EBD related rules this year, the flexi aero rules application, or the no tools for suspension adjustements, no official RRA, etc...
Edit: Oh, and also the no on-track testing. Ferrari was defenitely helped on that one.

Edited by prty, 06 December 2012 - 10:33.


#3499 apoka

apoka
  • Member

  • 3,482 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:36

Funny also the homologated engines giving advantage to Renault cars, and the "application" of the EBD related rules this year, the flexi aero rules application, or the no tools for suspension adjustements, no official RRA, etc...
Edit: Oh, and also the no on-track testing. Ferrari was defenitely helped on that one.

I think we would have to go through that list one-by-one. Did homologated engines really favor Renault? Weren't RB most affected by the change of EBD rules in 2012? In Newey's interview at Servus TV, he said that the RB7 was completely build around that concept. RB was also affected by the rule clarifications on engine mappings.

In any case, I think teams will converge with more stable rules. They have more data and can copy the best pieces from other competitors.


Advertisement

#3500 prty

prty
  • Member

  • 5,161 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:30

I think we would have to go through that list one-by-one. Did homologated engines really favor Renault? Weren't RB most affected by the change of EBD rules in 2012? In Newey's interview at Servus TV, he said that the RB7 was completely build around that concept. RB was also affected by the rule clarifications on engine mappings.

In any case, I think teams will converge with more stable rules. They have more data and can copy the best pieces from other competitors.


It hurt Renault in the pre-EBD times, as it was less powerful. But it isn't anymore, and it is the most efficient engine for EBD. Also, I don't think they got rid of EBD in 2012 completely, they just got a workaround, you just have to listen to 0:53 http://www.youtube.c...KcTmZJVrA#t=53s