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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 [merged]


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#51 Timstr11

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:11

Mercedes seem to be Front F-Duct testing.
The nose hole is uncovered.
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#52 Kompressor

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:48

Some nice photos of the test. http://www.motorspor...a...1271713&s=2

#53 merschu

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 14:26

Found this new information on next years car on twitter.

Sam Bird has told techF1LES :

According to Sam Bird, #Mercedes MGP W03 will be 'radical' car with innovative radiators layout.
http://twitter.com/#!/techF1LES/status...051105408225280

#Mercedes MGP W03 chassis with rear suspension has been already prepared in factory for two months and now being fine tuned - said Sam Bird.
http://twitter.com/#!/techF1LES/status...052082353913856



I had posted this on the Merc GP W02 thread but then thought it would be more appropriate for this thread.

Edited by merschu, 25 November 2011 - 14:27.


#54 ivand911

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 15:23

Found this new information on next years car on twitter.
Sam Bird has told techF1LES :
I had posted this on the Merc GP W02 thread but then thought it would be more appropriate for this thread.

"Innovative radiators layout" sounds like problem to me. Not impressed. :rolleyes:


#55 Urawa

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 16:07

this years layout were innovative enough for me :well:
on the other side they have to come up with new ideas or they´ll never close the gap.

#56 ivand911

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 16:32

Is it McLaren innovative? I mean the Moose.

#57 george1981

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 21:11

Found this new information on next years car on twitter.

Sam Bird has told techF1LES :

According to Sam Bird, #Mercedes MGP W03 will be 'radical' car with innovative radiators layout.
http://twitter.com/#!/techF1LES/status...051105408225280

I had posted this on the Merc GP W02 thread but then thought it would be more appropriate for this thread.


That got me worried, I do R&D and one of our partner organisations uses the word innovative for things they've created that don't work.

#58 george1981

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 11:19

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96655

Mercedes are to add AMG to their team name and the new car will be launched at the second pre season test.

I know this article has already been highlighted in the W02 thread but it should also be here in the W03 thread.

I can't help but feel that Mercedes should have got the car ready for the first test. They said they don't want to repeat the mistakes of last year when they didn't do enough testing with the car in its final configuration, and it looks like they may do that again.


#59 Mastah

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 11:25

8 days of testing with 2012 car? Good luck with that :lol:.

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#60 ivand911

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 11:58

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96655

Mercedes are to add AMG to their team name and the new car will be launched at the second pre season test.

I know this article has already been highlighted in the W02 thread but it should also be here in the W03 thread.

I can't help but feel that Mercedes should have got the car ready for the first test. They said they don't want to repeat the mistakes of last year when they didn't do enough testing with the car in its final configuration, and it looks like they may do that again.

If the car is good it doesn't matter if they test it 8 or 12 days. Time before the tests is more important.


#61 PAGATRON

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:06

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96655

Mercedes are to add AMG to their team name and the new car will be launched at the second pre season test.

I know this article has already been highlighted in the W02 thread but it should also be here in the W03 thread.

I can't help but feel that Mercedes should have got the car ready for the first test. They said they don't want to repeat the mistakes of last year when they didn't do enough testing with the car in its final configuration, and it looks like they may do that again.


Does this mean Mercedes HPE is no more?


#62 ivand911

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:17

Does this mean Mercedes HPE is no more?

HPE(High performance engine)? What is the connection with AMG? They just changed the name of the F1 team. Mercedes HPE stays ,this is where engines are build.


#63 PAGATRON

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:26

ScarbsF1 says its not just a marketing tie-up but also a technical one, just wanted to know what that meant.

#64 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:27

I suspect the AMG name additon is just PR (and a coup at that too) for AMG. No doubt it will bolster AMG spec Mercedes sales.

#65 MrFondue

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:28

HPE(High performance engine)? What is the connection with AMG? They just changed the name of the F1 team. Mercedes HPE stays ,this is where engines are build.


Well, they changed the name to Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains.

#66 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:32

http://www.crash.net...inter_test.html

#67 ivand911

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:38

Well, they changed the name to Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains.

Then it is HPP now ,not HPE. :p Just for me powertrains sounds stupid. I don't know anyone to use word powertrain in F1. Our "powertrain" break down.
CH: Our "powertrain" is less powerful than Mercedes "powertrain".

Edited by ivand911, 05 December 2011 - 12:41.


#68 MrFondue

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:55

Then it is HPP now ,not HPE. :p Just for me powertrains sounds stupid. I don't know anyone to use word powertrain in F1. Our "powertrain" break down.
CH: Our "powertrain" is less powerful than Mercedes "powertrain".


It's the correct technical term, but yeah, sounds a bit odd.

#69 jav

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 13:31

And so it begins... already laying the ground work for missing the first test. If history is any indicator, "THE" car won't make the second test either. It makes no sense to me why a principle would, within days, say it was a huge mistake of not making the most of limitted testing ...we won't make that mistake again, then days later announce the dream team and the new car will skip the first test becuase we "feel" it makes the most sense???

Given that they've already stated 2013 is "the year", it seems the writing is already on the wall with respect to 2012.

Edited by jav, 05 December 2011 - 13:32.


#70 F1Champion

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 13:33

It's time for Mercedes to replicate what McLaren do with the same engine, in terms of cooling. Mercedes work with McLaren and should know how they are able to keep their engines cool while running such extreme and aero efficient sidepod designs. It has to be replicated, not being able to doesn't make sense if the customer team can do it but the works team can't.

#71 King Six

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 13:43

**** yeah AMG :cool:

#72 zelpre

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 14:03

And so it begins... already laying the ground work for missing the first test. If history is any indicator, "THE" car won't make the second test either. It makes no sense to me why a principle would, within days, say it was a huge mistake of not making the most of limitted testing ...we won't make that mistake again, then days later announce the dream team and the new car will skip the first test becuase we "feel" it makes the most sense???

Given that they've already stated 2013 is "the year", it seems the writing is already on the wall with respect to 2012.


:up: :up:


Really negatively surprised with today's news. I don't like the new name either...

#73 OSX

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 14:08

Posted Image

http://www.mercedes-amg-f1.com


#74 OSX

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 15:01

McLaren Mercedes and Mercedes AMG. Funny how just the name change alone makes the two teams look more equal now. The power of branding.


#75 ivand911

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 16:27

Not big fan of the new name too.

#76 BigCHrome

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 16:28

They could have a very small rear if they can keep the double radiator layout and increase the wheelbase.

#77 OSX

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 17:27

Not big fan of the new name too.

Well, in branding shorter is generally better but there's no denying that AMG brings some added prestige to the name.


#78 Szoelloe

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 17:36

And so it begins... already laying the ground work for missing the first test. If history is any indicator, "THE" car won't make the second test either. It makes no sense to me why a principle would, within days, say it was a huge mistake of not making the most of limitted testing ...we won't make that mistake again, then days later announce the dream team and the new car will skip the first test becuase we "feel" it makes the most sense???

Given that they've already stated 2013 is "the year", it seems the writing is already on the wall with respect to 2012.


What Brawn referred to as a mistake was that they had not tested the car at all in the final configuration(the final upgrades were only presented for the first race). So if by the second test they will not run a test mule but a race-ready car, that is 2 weeks early compared to 2011. At least try to understand what you read. (To all pessimists out there) Nice try.

Edited by Szoelloe, 05 December 2011 - 17:37.


#79 halbvoll

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 18:05

Well, in branding shorter is generally better but there's no denying that AMG brings some added prestige to the name.



.... only if you are an Albanian pimp.

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#80 highdownforce

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 18:20

Posted Image
I like the name but I hate the new logo.

#81 H0R

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 18:42

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96655

Mercedes are to add AMG to their team name and the new car will be launched at the second pre season test.

I know this article has already been highlighted in the W02 thread but it should also be here in the W03 thread.

I can't help but feel that Mercedes should have got the car ready for the first test. They said they don't want to repeat the mistakes of last year when they didn't do enough testing with the car in its final configuration, and it looks like they may do that again.


I reckon that this is down to internal financial issues. Although AMG is afaik wholly owned by Mercedes Benz it operates financially as an independent entity. I guess that this move could exclude the F1 engagement out of Mercedes Benz's yearly financial liabilitys. Therefore: stockholders happy, Dr. Zetsche even more.

#82 Timstr11

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 18:55

I reckon that this is down to internal financial issues. Although AMG is afaik wholly owned by Mercedes Benz it operates financially as an independent entity. I guess that this move could exclude the F1 engagement out of Mercedes Benz's yearly financial liabilitys. Therefore: stockholders happy, Dr. Zetsche even more.

:confused: AMG is a department under Mercedes-Benz Passsenger Cars.
And yes, money will come out AMG's budget and go to M-AMG-F1 (AMG gets branding/exposure in return), but that's just internal movement of funds within Daimler AG business units and it makes no difference for Daimler AG shareholders.

Edited by Timstr11, 05 December 2011 - 19:24.


#83 eoin

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 19:05

And so it begins... already laying the ground work for missing the first test. If history is any indicator, "THE" car won't make the second test either. It makes no sense to me why a principle would, within days, say it was a huge mistake of not making the most of limitted testing ...we won't make that mistake again, then days later announce the dream team and the new car will skip the first test becuase we "feel" it makes the most sense???

Given that they've already stated 2013 is "the year", it seems the writing is already on the wall with respect to 2012.


All Brawn was saying last week was that they weren't going to show up to the first race with an untested car that they didn't know how to get the best out of. One of the reasons a team would want a car fully tested for the first few races is because there is often easy points, and podiums, up for grabs.

The AMG partnership shows how daft the limited resources agreement. Now maybe it's just purely PR but Mercedes could very easily outsource work to AMG...


#84 jav

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 19:09

What Brawn referred to as a mistake was that they had not tested the car at all in the final configuration(the final upgrades were only presented for the first race). So if by the second test they will not run a test mule but a race-ready car, that is 2 weeks early compared to 2011. At least try to understand what you read. (To all pessimists out there) Nice try.


I'm not sure my pessimism skews my reading comprehension any more than does your kool-aid.

That the "mistake" was "not testing W02 in final configuration until the first race" is like saying interest payments on our national debt are why we have deficits. The fact is- the mistake was not having W02 ready for the first day of testing and thereby delaying testing. (Remember- they quit on W01 mid-season to get a jump on W02?) Perhaps you can try reading the teams statements from mid 2010- until winter testing this year. If you don't feel like your stuck in ground hog day- kindly let me know what hallucinogen brightens your day.


Brawn was owning up to the mistake that "testing" is needed to confirm simulations and gather data early enough to make informed adjustments. Brawns latest statement IS counter intuitive to the knowledge gained by having stepped in that pothole last year. Not to mention the fact that last year, he said that they shifted focus to 2011 early to "hit the ground running, to improve on 4th place, and to have a car capable of fighting for podiums. Let's see.... questionable on the first point, failed on the second point and failed on the third. Why shouldn't fans be pessimistic given recent history?

#85 ivand911

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 19:38

I just hope for solid car with no birth defects. If it is fast will be very good(amazing). I hope now for a second year. Hope for not short wheelbase, no cooling problems(no gills), no wrong weight distribution, no high COG. What else, I sure forgot something. I guess they will find something else that I don't wont to hear about it.

Edited by ivand911, 05 December 2011 - 19:40.


#86 jav

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 19:57

I just hope for solid car with no birth defects. If it is fast will be very good(amazing). I hope now for a second year. Hope for not short wheelbase, no cooling problems(no gills), no wrong weight distribution, no high COG. What else, I sure forgot something. I guess they will find something else that I don't wont to hear about it.


YES! I agree ( add to that- easy on tires and working DRS). It would be really great to show up at test 1 with THE new car- Test that crap out of it (I don't even care about their times during testing) but get real data on the real car and show up to race 1 with a car you "believe" is the best car you can bring hoping it's enough to win the first race.

This business of shooting for 2 or 3rd is just unfathomable to me. OK - you might end up there- but shoot for #1 from the word go.



#87 eriknaa

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 23:23

A Really interesting article on the W03, that will debut on the 21.2 on mercedesgp-fans:
http://mercedesgp-fa...st-of-february/

#88 King Six

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 23:25

Well considering the W02 was being developed almost from the beginning of the 2010 season, Mercedes need all the time they can get.

#89 MaxisOne

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 23:29

YES! I agree ( add to that- easy on tires and working DRS). It would be really great to show up at test 1 with THE new car- Test that crap out of it (I don't even care about their times during testing) but get real data on the real car and show up to race 1 with a car you "believe" is the best car you can bring hoping it's enough to win the first race.

This business of shooting for 2 or 3rd is just unfathomable to me. OK - you might end up there- but shoot for #1 from the word go.



Doesnt always work that way. Red Bull skipped the first test i believe because they wanted more development time and it paid off handsomely.

While this is no red bull if they need more time at the factory to ensure that they have their act together on the race track then i cannot complain. What i do not want to see is a situation where there are ill fitting panels, missing panels to try and get cooling under control or running 4 to 5 laps and something goes wrong (Mclaren).

Get the car right.. then bring it to test when its ready and solid.

#90 jav

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 02:20

Doesnt always work that way. Red Bull skipped the first test i believe because they wanted more development time and it paid off handsomely.

While this is no red bull if they need more time at the factory to ensure that they have their act together on the race track then i cannot complain. What i do not want to see is a situation where there are ill fitting panels, missing panels to try and get cooling under control or running 4 to 5 laps and something goes wrong (Mclaren).

Get the car right.. then bring it to test when its ready and solid.



I remain hopeful that I am wrong. I'd like nothing more than for Merc to succeed. My fear is that we will have another season of being the best of the rest. Brawns statements relative to 2013 being the year to challenge for the championship speaks rather dismally for 2012. Statements made relative to the benefit of extra development time versus testing time didn't pan out last year- so that statements validity is questionable at best and certainly historically suspect.

I don't think Redbull is a good example. They were champs in 2010 and they kept their position with the evolution of 2010's winning car. Did Brawn do the same with their 2009 championship car? No- they screwed up W01 fundamentally and fell from 1st to 4th...AND that flawed car was STILL more competitive than W02 despite all the extra "development" effort born from W01 excuses. It seemed Brawn recognized the mistake of not having W02 ready to make the most of VERY limited testing... and while the new plan is to miss less, missing 1 out of 3 tests hardly seems wise.

The promise of W03 seemed hopeful with the addition of Bell, Willis and Costa. Not to mention the apparent commitment from Merc to the effort. Brawns statements, given recent history, scare the hell out of me. They're not even conservatively confident... they seem like the foundation for another fall short season and lead in to...well we always said 2013 was "the year".

#91 MaxisOne

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:41

Well if you want to interpret the comments as glass half empty i cant fault you.

Red bull did not have to get rid of people during the middle of 2009. Red bull did not have to figure out how they were going to be on the grid at the end of 2009 before Mercedes came knocking and red bull certainly had the resources available to put in developing an evolutionary car with fairly similar regulations 2010-2011 rather than a severely RRA Brawn team that had scant resources to develop their 2010 car which had a game changing regulation change on tires and such.

Added to that Key personnel responsible for the BGP1 left the team during the season..While i myself have been guilty in the past for ragging on them i understand the circumstances and i am willing to wait. Gaining 1 second per lap is no mean feat and they have to get their structure, personnel and process right (Steady the ship) before that is translated onto the car and then into lap time.

I believe Ross has been doing the right things so far.. The car this year had major design flaws.. but i lay that fault to the chief designer and Ross has addressed that problem and more.

The only thing that could go wrong going forward is the fact that their is alot of high profile and influential technical talent in the team right now and the car could be a victim of group think. However I trust Ross to effectively structure and process that possibility out of the organization

#92 jjpm

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 16:50

Well what Brawn has announced is not different from what McLaren did last year! and it turned out rather well...
Norbert said that they, now, enjoy the use of a performing simulator... So that's may lead to a proper approach to the 2012's season.

#93 Szoelloe

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 16:52

So the sim is fully functional. Huge edge.

#94 Urawa

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 20:56

Sportbild claims the plan to take the car to the second test was not born out of desperation but as a clear decision for pre season.
They´re quoting a team member who says the new car has lots of good ideas - and they want to give it away to the other teams as late as possible.

small hope they´ve stolen a march, very small...

Edited by Urawa, 17 December 2011 - 20:56.


#95 ivand911

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 21:36

Sportbild claims the plan to take the car to the second test was not born out of desperation but as a clear decision for pre season.
They´re quoting a team member who says the new car has lots of good ideas - and they want to give it away to the other teams as late as possible.
small hope they´ve stolen a march, very small...

Sounds like this year, all over again. Good ideas, lets hide them. And other teams will come with new car on the first test. I guess they have nothing to hide.

Edited by ivand911, 17 December 2011 - 21:39.


#96 Szoelloe

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 22:24

Sportbild claims the plan to take the car to the second test was not born out of desperation but as a clear decision for pre season.
They´re quoting a team member who says the new car has lots of good ideas - and they want to give it away to the other teams as late as possible.

small hope they´ve stolen a march, very small...


Thx for the info. I don't think they are smoke-screening another fail, It is way too early to even judge that. If they say they plan to introduce the car on the second test, than that is the plan. It is still 2 months to go. And I still say the new sim is an integral part of this. I know nobody believes any more, but I say it is a little premature to start digging the grave for the new car. We have seen a clear trend of expanding the team, lets see how it plays out. I refuse to be negative about this.


#97 ivand911

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:48

I think it is that Costa and Willis give some good ideas and they will try to put them in the new car. This is why they will be not ready for the first test. Maybe not groundbreaking, but something that will make car faster.

#98 jjpm

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 12:17

in Jerez, it is expected Mercedes will bring a W02 with a 2012's aero package and a bunch of mechanical changes under the hood...

ps remember that all crash tests have to performed before Jerez.

Edited by jjpm, 18 December 2011 - 12:20.


#99 dau

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 12:34

Sportbild claims the plan to take the car to the second test was not born out of desperation but as a clear decision for pre season.
They´re quoting a team member who says the new car has lots of good ideas - and they want to give it away to the other teams as late as possible.

small hope they´ve stolen a march, very small...

Lots of good ideas, not wanting to give them away to the others - wasn't this their reasoning for not running the final package in the preseason tests in the last two years? I don't get it.

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#100 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 12:37

Lots of good ideas, not wanting to give them away to the others - wasn't this their reasoning for not running the final package in the preseason tests in the last two years? I don't get it.


? No it wasn't