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New Pirelli tyres and DRS - a disaster for F1 and racing


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#51 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 11:14

Ideally we would have tyres that are good, fast and never degrade ever. That way drivers and cars can be pushed 100% throughout the race and then we'll see who or what is really the fastest.

Sounds good. Boring as anything though.

It's more interesting to see cars sliding around on worn tyres, wheelspining their way out and taking some driving IMO.

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#52 Rinehart

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 11:41

Sounds good. Boring as anything though.

It's more interesting to see cars sliding around on worn tyres, wheelspining their way out and taking some driving IMO.


I don't get why people want perfect tyres.
The races just become a procession, where there is vitually no reason for the guys on the front row not to win.
Seeing who is the fastest is already muddied by the fact that there are 12 completely different cars out there, and plenty of other technology that needs to be looked after) so I don't see why taking the tyres out of the equation suddenly purifies things?
I want to see who is the fastest over 60 laps of changing conditions and evolution. That is what a "Grand Prix" is supposed to be.
Maybe they should hold a separate qualifying championship - sounds like it would be popular!

Edited by Rinehart, 10 October 2011 - 11:42.


#53 timmy bolt

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 11:58

I would prefer all the tyres to last several laps longer and for the softest tyres not to be quite so sensitive. I hate the idea of perfect tyres but i also really dislike tyres that have to be nursed so they don't go off in less than 8 laps.



#54 Stormsky68

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 12:27

No, I didn't.


Ok I'll keep my answer very simple... No, 2010 could never be classed as boring, and no, we did not have a major issue requiring a major rule overhaul.

#55 trogggy

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 12:54

Ok I'll keep my answer very simple... No, 2010 could never be classed as boring, and no, we did not have a major issue requiring a major rule overhaul.

Once again you misunderstand - maybe it's me, I'll try again.
Ahem.
It's obvious that you (Stormsky68) were quite happy with the races last year. However, do you agree that lots of other people, including TPs, the FIA, journalists, drivers, fans, were saying that there wasn't enough overtaking, too many races were processions decided in quali and pit-stops, the tyres were too good, something needed to be done etc? Otherwise why DRS? Why were Pirrelli asked to make tyres that were more marginal?
Wasn't it a big issue (again, not for you)?

#56 engel

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 12:59

Would it be possible for the DRS to be auto-disabled when within X distance of the car in front? So it doesn't complete the overtake, but just gets them close enough. For example, the DRS closes when they are within <0.1 second of the defender (0.1 might be too close, but you get the point). So they are passed the dirty air phase and in the actual slipstream.


That'd be dangerous, DRS shifts the aero balance significantly, you can't spring an aero balance shift surprise on the drivers out of nowhere :)

#57 Fourjays

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:10

That'd be dangerous, DRS shifts the aero balance significantly, you can't spring an aero balance shift surprise on the drivers out of nowhere :)

Isn't it similar to how it auto-closes under braking though? I wouldn't think an application of downforce in a straight line is much more of an issue than a loss of it. They already have to avoid sudden moves with the DRS so it isn't like we are talking about it being done mid-corner.

Still, if it is an issue it can easily be solved with KERS. Double the KERS power/capacity, then allow 50% KERS power the whole lap (so effectively the same as it is now) and 100% when in range of the car in front.

#58 Sakae

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:25

I don't get why people want perfect tyres.
The races just become a procession, where there is vitually no reason for the guys on the front row not to win.
Seeing who is the fastest is already muddied by the fact that there are 12 completely different cars out there, and plenty of other technology that needs to be looked after) so I don't see why taking the tyres out of the equation suddenly purifies things?
I want to see who is the fastest over 60 laps of changing conditions and evolution. That is what a "Grand Prix" is supposed to be.
Maybe they should hold a separate qualifying championship - sounds like it would be popular!


Why we need to talk about tyre at all? We do not talk (often) in here about shock absorbers, why we need to talk about Hembery's tyre? I would prefer to talk about Schumacher knowing what line JB will take in trying to overtake, how he blocked him, but how JB found his way through, tricking the old fox. I want to talk about racing, which is missing now, and not about deficiencies of the car-system. Nursing the car/tyre is not supportive of combative "go-go", regardless what excuse label you want to stick on it. I am missing top-down view overlays which line each driver has taken, and which approach was quicker. Instead, we are discussing artificial gizmos and excuses for bad tyre specifications (IMO) anyway. Pirelli is not a bad company, but this deal is worst I have experienced in long time.

Edited by Sakae, 10 October 2011 - 14:14.


#59 Alx09

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:35

Funny really, the most competitive and enjoyable F1 season in recent years for me without a shaddow of a doubt was 2010

IMO there was no need for Pirelli sandpaper or drs

This, can't say it enough. 2010 was amazing.

too many races were processions decided in quali and pit-stops, the tyres were too good, something needed to be done etc?

The races that were processions, were so because of the tracks. Valencia and similar tracks always cause processions, no matter what.

Edited by Alx09, 10 October 2011 - 13:45.


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#60 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 14:17

The whole formula is artificial. Get over it.

Tyres and the DRS are the most visible, that's it. Newey and other aerodynamics folks must feel similarly about the many artificial restrictions on their freedom to design fast cars.

Of course it is - it's regulated. The freedom of engineers doesn't fit with the economic crisis (are we still there?), so whatever is needed to cut the costs down - it's welcome.
Paul Hembrey was a bit angry for not seeing some teams running in Q3 at Japan, and feels that "fans were robbed" - yeah, cut the number of available tires, too.
Actually, delete the tires together from the whole equation - make them run on rims only :)

Seriously, the whole cost cutting thing is becoming stupid when you look at DRS - that's one of most hated things in F1. Press a button - overtake.

#61 Sakae

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 14:29

It did occured to me only now, that DCR is actully a device which places a leading driver into unvoluntary handicap, since he doesn't has also some kind of button to press for "ecape DCR threath". Competitiveness in racing took beating with this.

Edited by Sakae, 10 October 2011 - 14:31.


#62 Stormsky68

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 14:34

Once again you misunderstand - maybe it's me, I'll try again.
Ahem.
It's obvious that you (Stormsky68) were quite happy with the races last year. However, do you agree that lots of other people, including TPs, the FIA, journalists, drivers, fans, were saying that there wasn't enough overtaking, too many races were processions decided in quali and pit-stops, the tyres were too good, something needed to be done etc? Otherwise why DRS? Why were Pirrelli asked to make tyres that were more marginal?
Wasn't it a big issue (again, not for you)?


If you look back through the last few pages you see other people agree with me about 2010.

So I can easily turn the question around and say do you agree.......etcetera etcetera blah blah?

And once again, no, I loved 2010. And I am a little bit dissappointed with 2011. The rules mixed stuff up for the first 5 or 6 races, then it all settled down into a the same old same old, only this time, with all aggressive driving stiffled

Edited by Stormsky68, 10 October 2011 - 14:55.


#63 trogggy

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 15:11

If you look back through the last few pages you see other people agree with me about 2010.

So I can easily turn the question around and say do you agree.......etcetera etcetera blah blah?

And once again, no, I loved 2010. And I am a little bit dissappointed with 2011. The rules mixed stuff up for the first 5 or 6 races, then it all settled down into a the same old same old, only this time, with all aggressive driving stiffled

I give up.
It's bleedin' obvious you loved 2010.
It's also bleedin' obvious that plenty of people didn't, and there was a call for changes. Not everyone likes them. That doesn't mean they aren't generally popular, or that the teams / FIA / fans / whoever would, given the choice, revert to last year's type of races.
No need to tell me that you would btw, I get that.

#64 Stormsky68

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 15:42

I give up.
It's bleedin' obvious you loved 2010.
It's also bleedin' obvious that plenty of people didn't, and there was a call for changes. Not everyone likes them. That doesn't mean they aren't generally popular, or that the teams / FIA / fans / whoever would, given the choice, revert to last year's type of races.
No need to tell me that you would btw, I get that.


I loved 2010. I preferred it over 2011. The rules are the major change, ergo I dislike the rule changes.

I loved aggressive drivers sliding cars like go-karts, these tyres prevent it and stop drivers like Schumi and Hamilton displaying their skills.

I don't claim to be right, I just claim the right to have an opinion.

Why is that an issue for you?

Edited by Stormsky68, 10 October 2011 - 15:44.


#65 trogggy

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 16:03

I loved 2010. I preferred it over 2011. The rules are the major change, ergo I dislike the rule changes.

I loved aggressive drivers sliding cars like go-karts, these tyres prevent it and stop drivers like Schumi and Hamilton displaying their skills.

I don't claim to be right, I just claim the right to have an opinion.

Why is that an issue for you?

It isn't.
My issue was that you weren't answering the question I asked, but rather telling me over and over how much you liked 2010 - which I knew already. You still haven't answered it, but I've given up. :(

#66 Kucki

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 16:21

One interesting aspect of DRS though is secondary effect of negating the loss of pace when following another car. Is easy to say that without DRS, a lot of the times drivers were racing close we would have had some "proper passing", but the fact is that without the DRS they probably would never have been running close enough to eacy other to even think of passing.


We have seen plenty of great racing in 2009 and 2010. If they wanted to make overtakings easier without making it artificial or a free-pass, they should have increased the cars dependance on mechanical grip, less aero-grip.


I also paritcularly like that DRS has ended the whole Trulli train scenario. No longer do we see a train of cars just following each other all race. In particular, we no longer have close races ruined because one of the leaders comes out of the pits behind a car who hasn't pitted (and is running 2s per lap slower) In the past even with that kind of pace advantage you could be stuck behind them until they pit, now it rarely takes more than a lap or two for the much faster car to dispatch them and resume his battle for the lead. It opens up much bigger pit windows for the teams and thus means there is more than one way to win the race!


I have rather seen the "Trulli trains" with F1 cars all over each other like angry bees, where sometimes someone made a mistake, someone was brave and made a move, or sometimes even nothing happened, all possible outcomes where on the table. Now the result of a pack of cars is a free pass. I rather see a high speed traffic jam.


Reading some of the posts above it does seem many people are wearing strongly Rose tinted glasses when remembering the racing over the last 10 years. There were an awful lot of dull processional races with just a rare classics in between. This year, with few exceptions most of the races have been entertaining from start to finish.


One could aswell say you look at the races now with rose tinted glasses, the passes we see are not passes, they used to be (used to be like football goals), now its like Basketball. Its true people wanted to see a bit more overtaking in the past, but they wanted to see more real overtakings, not simple drive-bys. If I wanted to see cars, or if I would get excited by the simple fact that cars drive by eachother, I could stand by a highway and cheer every car that drives by another one,... but thats not overtaking, overtaking is kind of forcing yourself by, beating the opponent, this is no longer the case. On-track position changes was a spectacle, now its ordinary. They changed what used to be Football goals, into Basketball shots.

Through my 23 years of watching F1 I have swallowed alot of bad rules, Traction Control, Automatic transmission, Launch Control,... but this one made the sport unwatchable for me, overtaking is ultimately the heart and soul of racing, they took the magic out of it.

Theres another, quite personal to myself thing I dislike, adn that is all the button pressing that is going on now from corner to corner, I want to see who is the best pure racer, the best driver, who is able to operate pedals and a steering wheel the best, I dont want to see who is the best button pressing piano playing multitasking computer nerd. The focus should be more on the pure racer.

Edited by Kucki, 10 October 2011 - 16:40.


#67 Alx09

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 12:47

We have seen plenty of great racing in 2009 and 2010. If they wanted to make overtakings easier without making it artificial or a free-pass, they should have increased the cars dependance on mechanical grip, less aero-grip.

I think this is the key really. More mechanical grip, less aero.


#68 fieraku

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:17

I don't get why people want perfect tyres.
The races just become a procession, where there is vitually no reason for the guys on the front row not to win.
Seeing who is the fastest is already muddied by the fact that there are 12 completely different cars out there, and plenty of other technology that needs to be looked after) so I don't see why taking the tyres out of the equation suddenly purifies things?
I want to see who is the fastest over 60 laps of changing conditions and evolution. That is what a "Grand Prix" is supposed to be.

Maybe they should hold a separate qualifying championship - sounds like it would be popular!

Yeah and it's called 24 hours of .............! Maybe you'd like that.

We already have the need to nurse engines,gear boxes etc.And now limp tires. F1 has turned into and spec series endurance racing with trick-gadgets to aid overtaking in order to make the SHOW better,not the sport.

I enjoy good defending as much as good overtaking,and a driver pushing like hell on the verge of exploding his motor and melting his tyres and the occasional midfielder getting a podium.

These so called "strategies" are the same as they've always been,the Top 5 teams are always on the same exact ones and we haven't seen a lower team work strategy to get a podium or god forbid a win.
There are NO different strategies,every team gets an allocated # of sets with a predetermined compound be it M/S or H/SS.The only difference is speed and aggressiveness are punished by them.





#69 GoRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:25

Yeah and it's called 24 hours of .............! Maybe you'd like that.

We already have the need to nurse engines,gear boxes etc.And now limp tires. F1 has turned into and spec series endurance racing with trick-gadgets to aid overtaking in order to make the SHOW better,not the sport.

I enjoy good defending as much as good overtaking,and a driver pushing like hell on the verge of exploding his motor and melting his tyres and the occasional midfielder getting a podium.

These so called "strategies" are the same as they've always been,the Top 5 teams are always on the same exact ones and we haven't seen a lower team work strategy to get a podium or god forbid a win.
There are NO different strategies,every team gets an allocated # of sets with a predetermined compound be it M/S or H/SS.The only difference is speed and aggressiveness are punished by them.


I think more durable tyres and DRS would be a better combination. Maybe not as durable as the Bridgestones of 2010, but definitely don't want to see drivers like MS lifting off completely and going slowly through the Esses to preserve tyres just after making a pit stop for fresh ones!!

#70 fieraku

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:30

I love the tyres - no longer boring 1 stop races.

So you like mechanics changing tires,coz I don't follow.

#71 fieraku

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:40

We have seen plenty of great racing in 2009 and 2010. If they wanted to make overtakings easier without making it artificial or a free-pass, they should have increased the cars dependance on mechanical grip, less aero-grip.




I have rather seen the "Trulli trains" with F1 cars all over each other like angry bees, where sometimes someone made a mistake, someone was brave and made a move, or sometimes even nothing happened, all possible outcomes where on the table. Now the result of a pack of cars is a free pass. I rather see a high speed traffic jam.




One could aswell say you look at the races now with rose tinted glasses, the passes we see are not passes, they used to be (used to be like football goals), now its like Basketball. Its true people wanted to see a bit more overtaking in the past, but they wanted to see more real overtakings, not simple drive-bys. If I wanted to see cars, or if I would get excited by the simple fact that cars drive by eachother, I could stand by a highway and cheer every car that drives by another one,... but thats not overtaking, overtaking is kind of forcing yourself by, beating the opponent, this is no longer the case. On-track position changes was a spectacle, now its ordinary. They changed what used to be Football goals, into Basketball shots.

Through my 23 years of watching F1
I have swallowed alot of bad rules, Traction Control, Automatic transmission, Launch Control,... but this one made the sport unwatchable for me, overtaking is ultimately the heart and soul of racing, they took the magic out of it.

Theres another, quite personal to myself thing I dislike, adn that is all the button pressing that is going on now from corner to corner, I want to see who is the best pure racer, the best driver, who is able to operate pedals and a steering wheel the best, I dont want to see who is the best button pressing piano playing multitasking computer nerd. The focus should be more on the pure racer.

+100,000,000

17 for me, but 2011 is the "FAKEST" racing I've seen.Actually calling it "Racing" is a CRIME!




#72 schubacca

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:48

DRS is a joke that is affecting the outcome of races.

Case in point: JB does not win in Canada without DRS.

He would not have been able to pass MS easily, if not at all, in the closing stages.

I have nothing against JB. But some of this stuff that DRS produces is utterly artificial.

#73 Risil

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:48

One could aswell say you look at the races now with rose tinted glasses, the passes we see are not passes, they used to be (used to be like football goals), now its like Basketball. Its true people wanted to see a bit more overtaking in the past, but they wanted to see more real overtakings, not simple drive-bys.


It's like neither. Passes aren't factored into the final results, in football and basketball goals score points. :rolleyes:

If anything overtaking is more like tackling, or dribbling in football. Tools to get the job done, which you can choose to enjoy aesthetically or not, but not the job in and of themselves. Focusing on one single element of the game is unhealthy and unreasonable.

And sometimes, overtaking is like those last-ditch catches and blocks you see in baseball or football. Spectacular and the result of a high level of skill, but you suspect a better competitor wouldn't have to do it so often. :p

Edited by Risil, 11 October 2011 - 14:48.


#74 fieraku

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:15

It's like neither. Passes aren't factored into the final results, in football and basketball goals score points. :rolleyes:

If anything overtaking is more like tackling, or dribbling in football. Tools to get the job done, which you can choose to enjoy aesthetically or not, but not the job in and of themselves. Focusing on one single element of the game is unhealthy and unreasonable.

And sometimes, overtaking is like those last-ditch catches and blocks you see in baseball or football. Spectacular and the result of a high level of skill, but you suspect a better competitor wouldn't have to do it so often. :p

It's actually two elements Risil overtaking and defending.DRS/tires have rendered a great defender helpless while being passed by an average overtaker,which in the past was stuff of dreams.

In football would be the equivalent of Inzaghi pulling a "great" dribble on Maldini defending on one leg! What's great about that? Or MJ defending with one arm tied to his body while having no shoes on.

A great overtake or a dribble is the one done while the defense is supreme and the defender puts 100% effort in trying to stop it, like MS/LH battle. I want to see that every race,and it only happened coz LH's DRS wasn't efficient.

Barca is not great because they play defense even though their defense is great.(I just made that up)



#75 Risil

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:25

It's actually two elements Risil overtaking and defending.DRS/tires have rendered a great defender helpless while being passed by an average overtaker,which in the past was stuff of dreams.

In football would be the equivalent of Inzaghi pulling a "great" dribble on Maldini defending on one leg! What's great about that? Or MJ defending with one arm tied to his body while having no shoes on.


Perhaps, but you could also liken it to changing the offside rule, as has happened two or three times (iirc in 1926, then twice in the last 20 years), to benefit the attacker running through on goal. Inzaghi certainly benefited from the last two changes. :wave: It produced a style of football that was different, and had a lot of detractors as well as defenders.

If DRS is going to be a permanent feature of F1, and FOTA/FIA are too cowardly to properly overhaul their technical rulebook, the more it's used the better the balance between attacking and defending will be struck. No one in race control wants 'another Turkey', they say that over and over. But the most depressing sight of the "old F1" was the sight of a driver falling behind a bit, and getting stuck behind the guy in 4th or 5th place, even though in clear air he'd be 1.5-2s faster. Under the new rules, he may well have been fighting for the win. Think how just about every good side gets stuck playing a stupid game of fouling and crowding football with Andorra. This bears more than a little similarity to the side that's so terrified of going forward and leaving gaps in the defence, that it sits every player behind the ball for 90 minutes hoping to grind out a 0-0. Like, perhaps, every Italian national team bar Sacchi and Bearzot. :)

A great overtake or a dribble is the one done while the defense is supreme and the defender puts 100% effort in trying to stop it, like MS/LH battle. I want to see that every race,and it only happened coz LH's DRS wasn't efficient.

Barca is not great because they play defense even though their defense is great.(I just made that up)


Like all great football teams, Barcelona understand that the key to winning football matches is not to enter individual battles with defenders altogether. On a good day, Barcelona like Vettel or Senna win from the front. It may not be the most exciting but it's undeniably the most beautiful way of winning. :)

Edited by Risil, 11 October 2011 - 15:33.


#76 fieraku

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 16:02

Perhaps, but you could also liken it to changing the offside rule, as has happened two or three times (iirc in 1926, then twice in the last 20 years), to benefit the attacker running through on goal. Inzaghi certainly benefited from the last two changes. :wave: It produced a style of football that was different, and had a lot of detractors as well as defenders.

If DRS is going to be a permanent feature of F1, and FOTA/FIA are too cowardly to properly overhaul their technical rulebook, the more it's used the better the balance between attacking and defending will be struck. No one in race control wants 'another Turkey', they say that over and over. But the most depressing sight of the "old F1" was the sight of a driver falling behind a bit, and getting stuck behind the guy in 4th or 5th place, even though in clear air he'd be 1.5-2s faster. Under the new rules, he may well have been fighting for the win. Think how just about every good side gets stuck playing a stupid game of fouling and crowding football with Andorra. This bears more than a little similarity to the side that's so terrified of going forward and leaving gaps in the defence, that it sits every player behind the ball for 90 minutes hoping to grind out a 0-0. Like, perhaps, every Italian national team bar Sacchi and Bearzot. :)



Like all great football teams, Barcelona understand that the key to winning football matches is not to enter individual battles with defenders altogether. On a good day, Barcelona like Vettel or Senna win from the front. It may not be the most exciting but it's undeniably the most beautiful way of winning. :)

Benefit the attacker or make it even steven? It's the defenders job to defend his man whose job is to score not and not worry about wether he's offside.So in retrospect an offside is just that whereas when it ain't it's a goal,thus you think advantage attack.

As for DRS if a driver is faster and can't get by in "old times" to me that's fine and better than a slow driver getting past without any skill involved.

Catanachio was an art in itself,and preparing to beat it and succeeding was a bigger achievement.Which Mourinho did vs Barca. Ugly to some, beautiful to me and bear in mind I'm or was a 169cm midfielder/forward. Out coaching marvel and a system working to perfection.

#77 pingu666

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 16:31

I dont really like how the tyres fall of a cliff, dont really like drs either. maybe making the slot gap less would help

#78 fieraku

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 13:26

With the DRS on one of the longest straights in F1 are we going to have another Canada? Also tire wear is reported to be high so I'm expecting this race will be a record breaker for overtakes.
Thoughts?

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#79 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 16:27

Ross Brawn thinks DRS should be re-evaluated at the end of the season to see if it should be kept or not

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/95296

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#80 Mastah

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 16:45

Finally someone involved in F1 is brave enough to say it :up:. I really, really hope next season we won't see DRS anymore, but I don't think it will happen, unfortunately.

#81 sosidge

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 17:03

The biggest problem with DRS as the season has progressed has been its inconsistency.

At some tracks it has been a free pass, at others it hasn't.

On a racing level, I completely object to DRS or any of that kind of driver-operated overtaking aid. But to have races like Spa and Turkey spoiled by the system while races like Valencia and Spain remain overtaking-free is doubly frustrating.

Tyres have been the key this season. I feel that Pirelli have gone a bit too far with the "off the cliff" construction, but tyre management is a key part of a Grand Prix, and it has been missing for too long. Better the borderline Pirelli's than the perfect Bridgestones

#82 BiH

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 18:03

DRS has to go


tires and KERS is all that is needed


look at last race

mark was on fresh tires while kamui and paul were on old ones and using KERS mark managed to pass both in two laps on the back straight before 130R

no DRS needed



while alonso and hamilton pass on massa using DRS was absurd there was 20 km/h difference


#83 Sakae

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 18:34

tires and KERS is all that is needed

Prost did not have KERS, and it was fun to see him racing. Why we need it now? (Yeah, he had tires, Good Year if memory serves me, I give you that).

#84 Crusoe

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 18:39

while races like Valencia and Spain remain overtaking-free

Funny you should say that since Barcelona had around 90 overtakes, and Valencia around 40. Not due to DRS mind you, but due to tires.

I agree completely with Brawn, in 2010 DRS would've been a more positive thing. With Pirelli tires it's completely useless and mostly detracts from the spectacle.

#85 Tardis40

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 18:59

Get rid of the tires, KERS, and the wing. Bring back refueling, good tires, and traction control.

#86 Crusoe

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 19:04

Yes and welcome back the snoozefests.

#87 skid solo

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 19:22

Prost did not have KERS, and it was fun to see him racing. Why we need it now? (Yeah, he had tires, Good Year if memory serves me, I give you that).


Bring back turbo boost buttons and keep KERS. Get rid of DRS and two compound tyres. We only need one compound, the correct one.

I also miss seeing Massa driving down the pit lane with a fuel hose still attached :yawnface:


#88 razno

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 19:35

Get rid of the tires, KERS, and the wing. Bring back refueling, good tires, and traction control.


And give F2004 back to Schumy:)

#89 Fastcake

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 20:25

Get rid of the tires, KERS, and the wing. Bring back refueling, good tires, and traction control.


Why would you want traction control? If the new tyres and DRS are too much for you, why are driver aids any better? :confused:

Also KERS will be better once it is directly integrated with the engine, rather than the current boost.

I also miss seeing Massa driving down the pit lane with a fuel hose still attached :yawnface:


That had a certain excitement to it :p

#90 SpaMaster

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:53

I think this is the key really. More mechanical grip, less aero.

Exactly!

#91 skid solo

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 13:56

Button on the next two races with Pirelli's tyre allocation
"So we have a tough couple of races coming up. It's not just about sheer speed, it's whether you can look after the tyres or not".

F1 has finally become a tyre management series rather than a race series....

Edited by skid solo, 13 October 2011 - 13:57.


#92 trogggy

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 14:04

Button on the next two races with Pirelli's tyre allocation
"So we have a tough couple of races coming up. It's not just about sheer speed, it's whether you can look after the tyres or not".

F1 has finally become a tyre management series rather than a race series....

You missed a word there.

#93 Tardis40

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 14:32

Yes and welcome back the snoozefests.


It would tighten up the racing and help the smaller teams. The way it is now 3/4 of the field is finishing a lap or more down.

#94 blackonyx4

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 14:56

It would tighten up the racing and help the smaller teams. The way it is now 3/4 of the field is finishing a lap or more down.



And that is different to 99% of F1 history in what way?

#95 Crusoe

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 15:21

It would tighten up the racing and help the smaller teams. The way it is now 3/4 of the field is finishing a lap or more down.

That has nothing to do with the rules, the field was only really close in 2009 when the exorbitant unsustainable spending bubble popped. Small teams like Minardi, and Jordan in the later years were doing as bad in the early 2000's as HRT/Virgin do today, and Sauber and similar teams were often a lap down. I don't even want to go to the earlier F1 eras when the gaps were even bigger.

Edited by Crusoe, 13 October 2011 - 15:22.


#96 fieraku

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 15:35

You missed a word there.

And you missed the whole thing,by only looking at that word.

#97 corf

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 16:38

So you like mechanics changing tires,coz I don't follow.


The Bridgestones were so so good they didn't even need to stop, too many races were processions with results based on pitstop times. This season we have the added strategy on how to use the tyres, its provided more entertainment, more overtaking and imo a much better viewing experience.

I personally don't see a downside to these tyres. I never liked the refueling sprint era that we had, it never seemed like proper F1 to me. To me this new Pirelli era is closer to the Golden Age* of f1 that was the 80's and I hope it stays for a while.

*I consider the 80's the golden age of f1 - Mansell, Senna, Prost, Lauda etc.*

#98 trogggy

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 16:41

And you missed the whole thing,by only looking at that word.

No. I didn't.

'It's not just about speed' is miles away from 'It's not about speed at all.'
Which should be bleeding obvious.


#99 Kucki

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 17:04

It's like neither. Passes aren't factored into the final results, in football and basketball goals score points. :rolleyes:


Your are thinking about the technical comparison. I was talking about the emotion of it.


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#100 fieraku

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 17:54

No. I didn't.

'It's not just about speed' is miles away from 'It's not about speed at all.'
Which should be bleeding obvious.


It's not just about sheer speed was followed by "it's whether you can look after the tyres or not". So that second statement kind of renders the first one meaningless.

So looking at that whole statement an not "a word" the most important thing is "tyre conservation" according to JB.And you arguing semantics, or grammar or whatever you were arguing there doesn't change the fact.