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New Pirelli tyres and DRS - a disaster for F1 and racing


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#1601 Group B

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 17:06

Are you expecting to find the contract online? There are plenty of other statements posted in the numerous threads, but they are just ignored so that Pirelli can continue to be blamed.

Well Pirelli are hardly helping themselves by waving their dick around; their response thus far to any criticism has been along the lines of "everything is stunningly, awesomely, brilliant, and it's it's all totally down to us".

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#1602 Clatter

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 17:12

Well Pirelli are hardly helping themselves by waving their dick around; their response thus far to any criticism has been along the lines of "everything is stunningly, awesomely, brilliant, and it's it's all totally down to us".


Have they actually said anything like that?


#1603 McLarenNo1

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 17:22

They say they are on the limit of these tyres in qualifying, so presumably that gives an indication of the cars relative pace to each other, if it wasn't for Pirellis - though cars will have inherent one lap and endurance characteristics relative to each other so things would change a bit. But personally I believe that even if they raced on virtually non-degrading super tyres, they'd still be managing fuel loads and those engines and gearboxes have still got to last, the brakes, the temps... I'm sure they would still be below the limit.

I've heard drivers talk about sections of a race that were like driving "a series of qualifying laps" but as far as I know, in no single F1 race ever, has any driver driven every lap - like a qualifying lap. I would love to be proven wrong if somebody knows, but I have always understood F1 to be an endurance race which is a balance of speed and craft.

Accepting that Pirelli has the balance wrong at the moment, I just hope they don't over-correct it. Tyres must be part of the challenge, just not too much of it.

I don't think they are as on the limit on qualifying as before. Less risks are probably taken as top 10 have to start on them tyres if dry weekend.

2010 they were going at very fast pace, like qualifying laps given the fuel loads for most of the race. Most of the full on qualifying style laps in race is usually when team says to push to probably make a strategy work at both say end of an stint and start of one.

Not sure, but at least something towards positive news: Michelin confirmed official tyre supplier for FIA Formula E

I hope Pirelli will be replaced next year.

Hopefully FIA and Michelin have also been discussing about F1 tyre supplier contract :up:.

#1604 PretentiousBread

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 17:29

Have they actually said anything like that?


Hembery implying that the only alternative to what they're doing is 'boring racing' is pretty ridiculous.

#1605 Clatter

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 17:40

Hembery implying that the only alternative to what they're doing is 'boring racing' is pretty ridiculous.


Is that what he said?

#1606 PretentiousBread

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 17:42

Is that what he said?


He implied it yes :rolleyes:

#1607 Alx09

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 17:43

Is that what he said?

Look at the very bottom of the OP and you can see Hembreys 2 quotes there.

#1608 Group B

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 17:54

Look at the very bottom of the OP and you can see Hembreys 2 quotes there.

That list of quotes from everyone is massively damning, yet Hembery has the brass neck to say that only Red Bull has complained. The man is floating around in fantasy land, kept aloft by his own gigantic ego.

#1609 muramasa

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 17:59


Make "better" or "conservative" tyres then there will be less action like it was in 09 and 10 and people will complain.

As long as the car remains aero-sensitive as it is, they will just continue this pathetic back & forth b/w procession and fake show.

Whatever type of tyres doesnt work to produce racing on current f1 cars. TWG should seriously look into re-introducing ground effect asap.


#1610 Group B

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 18:05

There's nothing wrong with tyres degrading, the problem is the extent. Drivers and teams are currently terrified of pushing because the tyres will suddendly fall away by 3 or 4 seconds in a handful of laps, totally ruining their race, as happened to Sutil.

#1611 BoschKurve

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 18:11

There's nothing wrong with tyres degrading, the problem is the extent. Drivers and teams are currently terrified of pushing because the tyres will suddendly fall away by 3 or 4 seconds in a handful of laps, totally ruining their race, as happened to Sutil.


If the tires didn't punish for pushing hard in the manner they do, I'd have little to say about them. When tires drop off of a cliff, the way these things do, that's where my problem comes from.

#1612 McLarenNo1

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 18:27

Hembery implying that the only alternative to what they're doing is 'boring racing' is pretty ridiculous.

For me, the most exciting dry race since Pirelli took over was the one in Austin. Paul Hembery probably thought it was the most boring race due to number of stops being so low. He could probably only think about how they could have created more stops after that race finished, the thought of drivers racing all the way to the flag was probably a painful experience for him :lol:.

#1613 Sakae

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 18:35

Are you expecting to find the contract online? There are plenty of other statements posted in the numerous threads, but they are just ignored so that Pirelli can continue to be blamed.

One doesn't know what and to whom to believe anymore, that's one of the issues. Mr. Hembery instead getting himself involved in polemics whether racing is good, etc. should come up with a short statement. He could say, notwithstanding controversial rhetoric and dissenting voices, Pirelli is thoroughly compliant with specifications requested of them by triumvirate, and they have data to substantiate this claim to the representatives of the triumvirate [FiA, teams, commerce]. That would put this endless argument to bed, and they could say to RB – just shut up and drive, you have what you wanted.
What we have instead however are different voices from ranks, which to me is rather indicative that either Pirelli has not delivered what was expected of them, and teams have right then to raise objection, or, and that’s more likely, (some, or all of the) teams had no say in this at all, thus someone else is writing technical specifications in vague, purely qualitative terms, and F1 is not looking very good to the outside world moving from one controversy to another. Pirelli has then more control over racing strategy than they are admitting.


#1614 skid solo

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 18:40

For me, the most exciting dry race since Pirelli took over was the one in Austin. Paul Hembery probably thought it was the most boring race due to number of stops being so low. He could probably only think about how they could have created more stops after that race finished, the thought of drivers racing all the way to the flag was probably a painful experience for him :lol:.


Burni de rubber and earni de dosh. Paul Hembery is enjoying this sustainable formula..

#1615 Darth Sidious

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 18:44

For me, the most exciting dry race since Pirelli took over was the one in Austin. Paul Hembery probably thought it was the most boring race due to number of stops being so low. He could probably only think about how they could have created more stops after that race finished, the thought of drivers racing all the way to the flag was probably a painful experience for him :lol:.


Spot on. But as a LH fan I'm totally biased anyway.

As an aside, I had to get a pair of fronts for the Zaffy this week ( I take roundabouts and bends at a minimum of 2G lateral load) and the guy at the shop told me I had a choice betwee Pirelli and Continental. I know there's no relationship between road tyres and the PZero's, but I had to say, tongue in cheek, that he could keep the Pirelli's for my dad, they wouldn't last five minutes the way I drive.

If somebody in Pirelli PR reads this, that's what making Babybel tyres ultimately results in - arseholes like me buying tyres from anybody else......

#1616 Group B

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 18:53

Spot on. But as a LH fan I'm totally biased anyway.

As an aside, I had to get a pair of fronts for the Zaffy this week ( I take roundabouts and bends at a minimum of 2G lateral load) and the guy at the shop told me I had a choice betwee Pirelli and Continental. I know there's no relationship between road tyres and the PZero's, but I had to say, tongue in cheek, that he could keep the Pirelli's for my dad, they wouldn't last five minutes the way I drive.

If somebody in Pirelli PR reads this, that's what making Babybel tyres ultimately results in - arseholes like me buying tyres from anybody else......

Good for you. If they get even an inkling that their rings of stilton are having an overall negative pubic image effect they'll stop thinking they're quite so clever.

#1617 skid solo

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 19:01

Spot on. But as a LH fan I'm totally biased anyway.

As an aside, I had to get a pair of fronts for the Zaffy this week ( I take roundabouts and bends at a minimum of 2G lateral load) and the guy at the shop told me I had a choice betwee Pirelli and Continental. I know there's no relationship between road tyres and the PZero's, but I had to say, tongue in cheek, that he could keep the Pirelli's for my dad, they wouldn't last five minutes the way I drive.

If somebody in Pirelli PR reads this, that's what making Babybel tyres ultimately results in - arseholes like me buying tyres from anybody else......


Yep, me too, just fitted 4 x Kumho instead of Pirelli's, I want them to last....

#1618 PretentiousBread

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 00:25

Not sure, but at least something towards positive news: Michelin confirmed official tyre supplier for FIA Formula E

I hope Pirelli will be replaced next year.


I do wonder if this is Pirelli's last year in F1. I've read Dieter Rencken's articles about the state of play, and he seems to indicate that Pirelli are a shoe-in for the tyre supplier again, but they still haven't signed, and the outspokenness of the drivers and figures higher up in teams about these tyres is a shift from the norm. I feel absolutely certain that at least until recently, there had been some sort of gagging order placed on F1 personnel about criticising the tyre supplier, it may have been a condition for when Pirelli signed up. Any time over the past couple of years when drivers have been directly asked whether they liked the tyres, the answers were always very PR sounding, always talking about how great they were for 'the show' and what a 'different challenge' they were, yet off the record we heard all sorts of criticism of them. It was obvious that Webber was biting his tongue in a few interviews. Hamilton never came out and criticised them per se, but he did make a plea for more durable tyres in a post race interview after the Indian GP. Schumacher was the only one to come out and lambast them, and it made sense as he seemed like the only one who hadn't anything to lose from it, though he was left as the sole dissenting voice out of the drivers so it all blew over after a while. But now they're coming out of the woodwork, drivers from different teams, with different agendas, saying the same things. What's changed? Have the tyres just become so bad they can't help themselves? Or do they know Pirelli are on their way out so are less concerned with airing their grievances?

I remember Alonso railing against Bridgestone early in 2009, it's what I imagine he might be saying now if A - he was allowed to and B - Pirelli tyres didn't favour his team relative to Red Bull:

Alonso, meanwhile, criticised Bridgestone for bringing super-soft tyres to Shanghai on a track known for its hard-wearing and abrasive qualities.
He said the decision would make the drivers look ridiculous.
"I think it is the worst decision they made in a long time, because it is a ridiculous tyre for here, for Shanghai," he said.
"I don't know if Bridgestone made the decision or the FIA, but they have to reconsider this type of decision because we look ridiculous on television and we look ridiculous for the spectators, and it is a joke to be in front of TV six seconds slower.
"We will need to change the tyres after five or six laps, is our calculation, because this track is harder than Melbourne and there we only did eight or nine laps.
"Like this it looks more spectacular - the difference in the speed. I don't know... I'm very worried about this and I'm very sad about this, because we look strange in front of people."


http://www.telegraph...ridgestone.html

We expressed our concerns after Australia, after the accident of Robert Kubica and Sebastian Vettel – it was due to the difference of the speed. He tried to overtake, Vettel was not in control of the car with that tyre, you cannot brake, you cannot turn-in, you cannot do anything. And then Robert had a big crash after that because he damaged the car. And then we expressed our concerns and now in the third race we have the same tyre at a worse circuit. This is something that we need to change immediately.

I think the super-soft on this type of circuit with long, high-speed corners. Super-soft in Turn 1 will be destroyed and in Turn 10 there will be no more left tyre.

One [tyre] will be too hard and one will be too soft. The right tyre is at home! This soft tyre is at home and this happened in Australia as well. And the understanding that this is for a better show, for overtaking. As I said, for better show, maybe we can pick up our number and then whoever picks up number 15 can put on wet tyres, or whatever, and it is a better show and its funny. Like this is not funny.


http://www.f1fanatic...rtificial-poll/

It certainly all sounds like similar criticism that could be levelled at Pirelli.

Edited by PretentiousBread, 29 March 2013 - 00:31.


#1619 Jejking

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 00:44

That list of quotes from everyone is massively damning, yet Hembery has the brass neck to say that only Red Bull has complained. The man is floating around in fantasy land, kept aloft by his own gigantic ego.

It can get even better. After I sent him some driver statements from 2012 and 2013, he sent me a Direct Message over Twitter: Send an interview , not a tweet. Get your facts right and I will reply or call you. Paul

I ensure you this is not a joke :stoned:

Edited by Jejking, 29 March 2013 - 00:44.


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#1620 Jejking

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 00:47

By the way, Michelin will supply tyres for Formula E from next season on. What will it mean for Pirelli?

#1621 stanga

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:13

I've never understood why one supplier can have so much say in how F1 works. The fact that we know the Pirelli guy's name speaks volumes to me.

That aside, if I was a Pirelli exec I'd be screaming at the leadership to rethink their involvement. Compromising their brand's key product dimension is crazy. I just don't see how it is a sensible strategy.

With DRS and even more KERS on the horizon, do we need such fragile tires anymore? As had already been mentioned, Austin was an amazing race.

#1622 akshay380

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:39

By the way, Michelin will supply tyres for Formula E from next season on. What will it mean for Pirelli?

I did just that early morning today. Gave a link of this thread too. Let's see what he says.

#1623 gerry nassar

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:12

The 2013 Pirellis are here to stay (for this year) so get used to it. Id rather the current way the cars are performing than the aletrnative which is 2011 style RB dominance.

#1624 skid solo

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:44

The 2013 Pirellis are here to stay (for this year) so get used to it. Id rather the current way the cars are performing than the aletrnative which is 2011 style RB dominance.


Why should we get used to it? Whats the point in having a forum if not to discuss our likes and dislikes of F1?

Edited by skid solo, 29 March 2013 - 09:03.


#1625 Alx09

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:04

I feel absolutely certain that at least until recently, there had been some sort of gagging order placed on F1 personnel about criticising the tyre supplier, it may have been a condition for when Pirelli signed up. Any time over the past couple of years when drivers have been directly asked whether they liked the tyres, the answers were always very PR sounding, always talking about how great they were for 'the show' and what a 'different challenge' they were, yet off the record we heard all sorts of criticism of them.


This was exactly what I felt too - there must've been an agreement for them to enter the sport that they could not be criticized. The way people just endlessly praised the tyres with the "good for the show" PR answer. Ever since they entered both drivers and teams seem to be afraid to criticize, as if they break some rule. I'm not sure if it tipped over in 2012 and some drivers and teams could simply not hold it in anymore, as the tyres were so incredibly bad.

My hope is that Pirelli was a backup plan put in place for 3 years, until other manufacturers started showing their interest again, and Bernie could be given a somewhat strong position to negotiate.

Edited by Alx09, 29 March 2013 - 12:06.


#1626 skid solo

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:09

This was exactly what I felt too - there must've been an agreement for them to enter the sport that they could not be criticized, and it was accepted as there was no other decent option. The way people just endlessly praised the tyres with the "good for the show" PR answer etc. Ever since they entered both drivers and teams seem to be afraid to criticize, as if they break some rule. I'm not sure if it tipped over in 2012 and some drivers and teams could simply not hold it in anymore, as the tyres are so incredibly bad.


Yes, the "It's the same for everybody" line is a little lame
I thought drivers would have rallied around Schumacher when he had the guts to say it how it was. Pirellis are not good enough for F1!

#1627 peroa

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:24

I do wonder if this is Pirelli's last year in F1. I've read Dieter Rencken's articles about the state of play, and he seems to indicate that Pirelli are a shoe-in for the tyre supplier again, but they still haven't signed, and the outspokenness of the drivers and figures higher up in teams about these tyres is a shift from the norm. I feel absolutely certain that at least until recently, there had been some sort of gagging order placed on F1 personnel about criticising the tyre supplier, it may have been a condition for when Pirelli signed up. Any time over the past couple of years when drivers have been directly asked whether they liked the tyres, the answers were always very PR sounding, always talking about how great they were for 'the show' and what a 'different challenge' they were, yet off the record we heard all sorts of criticism of them. It was obvious that Webber was biting his tongue in a few interviews. Hamilton never came out and criticised them per se, but he did make a plea for more durable tyres in a post race interview after the Indian GP. Schumacher was the only one to come out and lambast them, and it made sense as he seemed like the only one who hadn't anything to lose from it, though he was left as the sole dissenting voice out of the drivers so it all blew over after a while. But now they're coming out of the woodwork, drivers from different teams, with different agendas, saying the same things. What's changed? Have the tyres just become so bad they can't help themselves? Or do they know Pirelli are on their way out so are less concerned with airing their grievances?

I remember Alonso railing against Bridgestone early in 2009, it's what I imagine he might be saying now if A - he was allowed to and B - Pirelli tyres didn't favour his team relative to Red Bull:



http://www.telegraph...ridgestone.html



http://www.f1fanatic...rtificial-poll/

It certainly all sounds like similar criticism that could be levelled at Pirelli.

What's more interesting is that it's being discussed in autosport this week.

#1628 boldhakka

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 15:56

That aside, if I was a Pirelli exec I'd be screaming at the leadership to rethink their involvement. Compromising their brand's key product dimension is crazy. I just don't see how it is a sensible strategy.
.


This is why I'm quite confident that this state of affairs won't last forever. There's got to be an exec at Pirelli that has a brain cell and sees that this isn't sustainable.

They'll soon tighten up DRS as well. Getting it out of quali (though for other reasons) was a good first step.

#1629 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 20:17

McLaren announces Pirelli as McLaren Automotive Technology Partner (Dec 20, 2012)

Headquartered in Italy, Pirelli has recently become the exclusive tyre technology partner to McLaren Automotive. The close collaboration between Pirelli and McLaren guarantees the development of performance tyres tailored on the specific needs of each single car model and enables drivers to harness all of the power of the McLaren super cars while ensuring total control. The partnership acts as one of the technology labs for Pirelli leading to future cutting-edge tyre technologies being developed for McLaren road cars.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 29 March 2013 - 20:18.


#1630 JV97

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 20:27

Just to echo a couple of previous points. Yes deg tyres are good and what I wanted. It's just the rate they go off at and how much pace has to be managed to even get them to do that. Gradual drop off whilst still pushing very hard should be acheivable surely with more 'gentle' drivers getting a couple of laps more with still performance better than the slower tyre. Other compounds giving you the option for a 1 stop if you baby them.

And really, I don't think we were far off that last year towards the end of the season.

Also, I too avoid Pirelli for road tyres. Never really lasted well, were just ok in the wet and no better than many other all rounders in the dry. Maybe it's the supercar market they come into their own at

#1631 Sakae

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 21:13

McLaren announces Pirelli as McLaren Automotive Technology Partner (Dec 20, 2012)

So, McLaren's voice on tires in F1 is then utterly without (potential) conflict of interest? (I haven't read that article yet until now).

#1632 Group B

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 21:16

Just to echo a couple of previous points. Yes deg tyres are good and what I wanted. It's just the rate they go off at and how much pace has to be managed to even get them to do that. Gradual drop off whilst still pushing very hard should be acheivable surely with more 'gentle' drivers getting a couple of laps more with still performance better than the slower tyre. Other compounds giving you the option for a 1 stop if you baby them.

And really, I don't think we were far off that last year towards the end of the season.

:up:
As I've already said, this really isn't rocket science.

#1633 PurpleHam

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 23:08

No way would I ever put Pirelli tyres on any car I will ever own, I do not want to be reminded of the seasons they ruined in F1.

Bridgestone Potenza till I die...with hazy memories of the greatest ever debut by a Rookie the sport has ever seen :smoking:

#1634 Sakae

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:16

There is number of threads on recent strategic decision Mercedes and RB have taken in the last race, and there is no need to discuss it in here, but I would like to move forward and ponder for a while what impact of those decisions really mean in the bigger picture, since tires were cited as part of that mess, at least in RB case? Are we going to see these kind of orders again this year, and what it is mean for competitiveness of racing, when teams simply shall voice concern about condition of tires, and race (at least between team-mates) ends during last pit stop? I am so overwhelmed by prospect of this that I am gasping for air; despite its just another element added to personal disappointment what happened to F1 in just past a few years. [KERS. DRS, and now Tires]. Is anyone on board with what we see in progress here?

Edited by Sakae, 30 March 2013 - 11:21.


#1635 P123

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:28

The unfortunate thing is that Pirelli seem to think (or have been led to believe) that more pitstops = more exciting racing. The defenders of Pirelli also take the misguided stance that F1 is all about tyre preservation. It isn't, and shouldn't be. We had two years of Pirelli running with an apparent tyre destroying monster in Hamilton on one side, and the sweet tyre whispering wonder JB on the other..... I can think of only one racing outcome being decided on tyre preservation, so it's not as decisive a skillset as some would like to claim when defending Pirelli's approach. It's more chassis dependant than driver dependant, and there is more to tyre management than pure tyre saving. Such as the temperature operating window of the tyre, which Pirelli duly addressed for this season following criticism, yet stick stubbornly to eggshell tyres.... maybe they just can't build a durable tyre, maybe this is F1 on the cheap...

When drivers are running well below the potential of their abilities and the ability of their car for long periods of the races then something is rotten. People accuse Red Bull of being self-serving in their criticism. Was Boullier not even more self-serving in his defence?

#1636 trogggy

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:36

The defenders of Pirelli also take the misguided stance that F1 is all about tyre preservation.

That's ridiculous. Who's written that?

#1637 PretentiousBread

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 18:07

What's more interesting is that it's being discussed in autosport this week.


And even the F1 show on Sky! Though I doubt they appreciated that when Nigel Roebuck came out and talked about how the drivers are cruising, 8 tenths etc. on a show which is kind of an advertisement for Sky Sports F1. Besides, the fact that old timer, Nigel Roebuck (and who could be better qualified to compare old F1 with what we have today?), thought that the whole tyre situation had gone too far, shows just how out of touch the Pirelli apologists are. I repeatedly hear nonsense that this is just what F1 used to be like before refuelling, which I can scarcely believe. Sure, tyre conservation was a greater concern than what it was in the refuelling era, but surely not to this extent. I doubt they were ever in the position where the cars literally had too much downforce for the tyre to take. Looking after the tyres would have been more driver dependent than car dependent as it is today, limiting wheel-spin and excess tyre scrub, shortening corners etc. have always been part of the game - but to my knowledge they weren't given pre-determined target lap times to aim for to preserve the tyres so that they could last a stint at a respectable average pace, because the inherent performance of the car is so much higher than the barely fit for purpose tyres that they're being driven on...

#1638 Jejking

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 18:33

If there is such thing as too much downforce, could Nissany be right after all? :/

#1639 rhukkas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 18:53

And even the F1 show on Sky! Though I doubt they appreciated that when Nigel Roebuck came out and talked about how the drivers are cruising, 8 tenths etc. on a show which is kind of an advertisement for Sky Sports F1. Besides, the fact that old timer, Nigel Roebuck (and who could be better qualified to compare old F1 with what we have today?), thought that the whole tyre situation had gone too far, shows just how out of touch the Pirelli apologists are. I repeatedly hear nonsense that this is just what F1 used to be like before refuelling, which I can scarcely believe. Sure, tyre conservation was a greater concern than what it was in the refuelling era, but surely not to this extent. I doubt they were ever in the position where the cars literally had too much downforce for the tyre to take. Looking after the tyres would have been more driver dependent than car dependent as it is today, limiting wheel-spin and excess tyre scrub, shortening corners etc. have always been part of the game - but to my knowledge they weren't given pre-determined target lap times to aim for to preserve the tyres so that they could last a stint at a respectable average pace, because the inherent performance of the car is so much higher than the barely fit for purpose tyres that they're being driven on...


The difference in the past was that tyres were being built to the optimum technology available at the time. So even if drivers were preserving tyres, there still was a motivation by the manufacturers and drivers to eradicate this and try and build a better and faster tyre. The objective - go quicker. What we have now is the complete opposite. A manufacturer building a worse and slower tyre. Objective - go slower

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#1640 Jon83

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 19:50

No way would I ever put Pirelli tyres on any car I will ever own, I do not want to be reminded of the seasons they ruined in F1.

Bridgestone Potenza till I die...with hazy memories of the greatest ever debut by a Rookie the sport has ever seen :smoking:


Your gripe isn't with Pirelli though, or shouldn't be.

This is what F1 came to them and asked for. Pirelli could easily produce a tyre similar to what Bridgestone had in 2010.



#1641 Group B

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 21:36

Your gripe isn't with Pirelli though, or shouldn't be.

This is what F1 came to them and asked for. Pirelli could easily produce a tyre similar to what Bridgestone had in 2010.

Did they particularly stipulate that the tyres fall off a cliff if pushed for more than a lap or two? Seems a very odd request if so.

#1642 Jon83

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 17:25

Did they particularly stipulate that the tyres fall off a cliff if pushed for more than a lap or two? Seems a very odd request if so.


Pirelli tyres have been like this since day one pretty much. This season isn't any different. If the sport wanted more durable tyres, we'd have them IMO.

I heard Martin Brundle after the Australian GP saying they were excited about going to Malaysia and mentioned multiple pit stops. That could be exactly what the sport's hierarchy want.

#1643 Sakae

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 17:51

Why is it that during inspection certain elements of the vehicle are measured to last three millimetres, and we would have this written in technical specs., yet with tires we should be content with specs merely stating "give us something exciting" (FOM speaking to Pirelli)? It's hard to understand F1 character sometimes.

#1644 trogggy

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 19:24

Why is it that during inspection certain elements of the vehicle are measured to last three millimetres, and we would have this written in technical specs., yet with tires we should be content with specs merely stating "give us something exciting" (FOM speaking to Pirelli)? It's hard to understand F1 character sometimes.

How would you write a tyre spec?
Size is obviously easy to specify - as are aspects of construction - what else would you put in there in a technical specification?


#1645 Sakae

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 20:22

How would you write a tyre spec?
Size is obviously easy to specify - as are aspects of construction - what else would you put in there in a technical specification?

I am sure that BMW did not requested of Bridgestone to give me just some tires on their car, so they can last four months. Point is, specs could be written with little more specificity as proven on road cars, and in contrast to some kind of a vague request that appears someone has ordered the F1 racing tires. Rubber has a physical and chemical properties which could be quantified, and despite little black art in the process, it could be better than it is, if one wants to be.

#1646 trogggy

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 20:30

I am sure that BMW did not requested of Bridgestone to give me just some tires on their car, so they can last four months. Point is, specs could be written with little more specificity as proven on road cars, and in contrast to some kind of a vague request that appears someone has ordered the F1 racing tires. Rubber has a physical and chemical properties which could be quantified, and despite little black art in the process, it could be better than it is, if one wants to be.

Sorry, but that doesn't help at all.
You can specify a construction, but if you do that and the tyre turns out to be rubbish* what next?

*by whatever criterion you choose - slow / fragile / bad for 'the show' etc

#1647 Vieras

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 21:36

What they should say to Pirelli:

Give me a soft tire with superb grip that you can push 12 laps as hard as you can and after that they get very slow. Then give me another harder tire that has less grip, but it lasts for 30 laps no matter how hard you drive and after that they get very slow.

I know that this is very difficult to make but so are most things in Formula 1.

Edited by Vieras, 31 March 2013 - 21:38.


#1648 Obi Offiah

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 22:24

What they should say to Pirelli:

Give me a soft tire with superb grip that you can push 12 laps as hard as you can and after that they get very slow. Then give me another harder tire that has less grip, but it lasts for 30 laps no matter how hard you drive and after that they get very slow.

I know that this is very difficult to make but so are most things in Formula 1.

Bingo :up:

#1649 Sennasational

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 22:31

What they should say to Pirelli:

Give me a soft tire with superb grip that you can push 12 laps as hard as you can and after that they get very slow. Then give me another harder tire that has less grip, but it lasts for 30 laps no matter how hard you drive and after that they get very slow.

I know that this is very difficult to make but so are most things in Formula 1.


But wouldn't drivers then just push 80% to their capacity on the soft tyres so they could go maybe 16 laps without becoming very slow?

The only way we'll see drivers at their limit for the majority of the race again is if they bring back refuelling, which sadly is not going to happen, because it's far too dangerous and/or expensive...I forget which one they used as the BS reason at the time.

#1650 DILLIGAF

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:34

It's growing to quite a nice collection now of drivers daring to speak what they actually think about the tyres. Have added those mentioned to the original post. Good on Riccardio, Lewis and Horner.

How many more do we need until Pirelli actually listen? If they don't change anything I hope that this will be Pirellis last season in F1, and that we can have some quality manufacturers back like Bridgestone and Michelin.

And to those who said that RB / Merc being against the tyres just because they didn't have the performance - well this race should silence them.


Don't blame Pirelli. They are simply providing the tyres Bernie requested. Tyres that won't last a third of the race.