Who spoke English?
#1
Posted 16 October 2011 - 19:09
There was a period in the 1960s when, Ferrari aside, virtually every team on the grid was British or at least, ran British cars. Indeed, most of the drivers were English speaking too.
However, I just wonder how many of the drivers from the era before the English speakers dominated F.1 (1958-1969) were able to communicate in English.
I appreciate that it wasn't a prerequisite but then again, several non-Brits drove for British teams; e.g. B.R.M, Vandervell, in the 1950s, so is there any record of those who could talk to their British teams?
I seem to recall that Fangio did not speak English.
#3
Posted 16 October 2011 - 20:22
We had restaurants that had ad some decal that said:
English Spoken..
In our language Spoken are Ghosts
So a little yoke: English Ghosts,
#4
Posted 16 October 2011 - 21:35
#5
Posted 16 October 2011 - 22:07
Probably Trintignant, too.
#6
Posted 16 October 2011 - 22:19
#7
Posted 16 October 2011 - 23:00
#8
Posted 16 October 2011 - 23:02
#9
Posted 16 October 2011 - 23:21
#10
Posted 16 October 2011 - 23:47
Jo Bonnier would be another, probably (though he's probably more from a later era...) Hermann and de Beaufort too.
#11
Posted 17 October 2011 - 03:10
Could the conversation have been in Italian? Remember they both drove for Italian teams for most of their careers.I think Gonzalez spoke at least some English as in Mon Ami Mate there is an account of him having a conversation with Mike Hawthorn who most definitely did not speak Spanish.
I observed a conversation in Italian led by Collins with Ferrari personnel with Fangio and Gonzalez as bystanders and they all seemed to understanding each other. At this time Collins had only been with Ferrari 4 months. So I would suggest that in the 50s the British spoke Italian not the other way round.
#12
Posted 17 October 2011 - 04:18
#13
Posted 17 October 2011 - 04:37
I'm wondering about some earlier drivers too, like Sommer and Chiron for instance.
#14
Posted 17 October 2011 - 05:45
When Gonzalez visited Goodwood and Silverstone in the 1990s/2000s he needed his son to act as interpreterI think Gonzalez spoke at least some English as in Mon Ami Mate there is an account of him having a conversation with Mike Hawthorn who most definitely did not speak Spanish.
#15
Posted 17 October 2011 - 05:46
He had English-speaking parents, and went with his mother to the States in 1941. I imagine that by the time he returned to France in 1946 or 1947, if not before he left, his English was perfectHeck, even American Harry Schell's first language was French. How good was his English by the 1950s?
#16
Posted 17 October 2011 - 10:56
Jo Bonnier would be another, probably (though he's probably more from a later era...) Hermann and de Beaufort too.
Bonnier was aboslutely fluent in English, French and German (in addition to Swedish) and was said to get along quite well in Italian and Spanish as well.
#17
Posted 17 October 2011 - 11:44
From what little I've been able to glean, Lucy was more or less a monoglot French speaker in her youth: an American press report I found from about 1916 suggested she may have needed her father to interpret for her (it can also be read as meaning she wasn't able to speak French, but having grown up in Paris I think that's unlikely!) No doubt her English improved when she married Laury (or maybe his French did) but René Dreyfus suggests that 'Arry's English was almost non-existent when they went to America in 1940 (not '41 and without Lucy ;) ) although it was pretty soon good enough to get him into the US Army.He had English-speaking parents, and went with his mother to the States in 1941. I imagine that by the time he returned to France in 1946 or 1947, if not before he left, his English was perfect
#18
Posted 17 October 2011 - 11:57
Could the conversation have been in Italian? Remember they both drove for Italian teams ....I observed a conversation in Italian led by Collins with Ferrari personnel with Fangio and Gonzalez as bystanders and they all seemed to understanding each other..... So I would suggest that in the 50s the British spoke Italian not the other way round.
I always understood that Surtees spoke Italian very well, at MVAugusta etc prior to Ferrari, and Michael Parkes was fluent too. In view of his long sojourn in Italy do we assume that Pete Coltrin was fluent in Italian, certainly having an Italian wife. From what he said to me once, Jenks and Fangio had a common communication medium in Italian, so presumably it was fairly commonplace in period. I suppose it all depends on the level of detail needed for the topic discussed.
Roger Lund
#19
Posted 17 October 2011 - 12:04
#21
Posted 17 October 2011 - 12:58
The lingua franca of motor-racing is English...
Sì, oggi lo è, ma che non era così nel passato.
#22
Posted 17 October 2011 - 13:08
Can I have chocolate sauce with mine pleaseSì, oggi lo è, ma che non era così nel passato.
#23
Posted 17 October 2011 - 13:15
Originally posted by Bloggsworth
The lingua franca of motor-racing is English...
Indeed, Barry stated that in the opening paragraph of this thread...
But his question is about who might have spoken English back in the days when that wasn't so.
#24
Posted 17 October 2011 - 13:16
Edited by Barry Boor, 17 October 2011 - 13:16.
#25
Posted 17 October 2011 - 14:46
#26
Posted 17 October 2011 - 15:19
#27
Posted 17 October 2011 - 15:33
Agreed on Nuvolari, although I believe he spoke good French. Nuvolari and Rosemeyer were also reputed to be able to carry on mutually understandable conversations, despite having no languages in common, since Bernd spoke only German. Neubauer was presumably able to call on Uhlenhaut's expertise when required.I'm pretty sure that neither Alfred Neubauer nor Rudi Caracciola spoke much (if any) English, and neither did Tazio Nuvolari, Alberto Ascari or Aurelio Lampredi. Farina's English was, I believe, quite rudimentary, but Antonio Brivio was apparently quite fluent.
#28
Posted 17 October 2011 - 15:43
C'est la vie.I just don't understand why everyone doesn't speak it all the time?
#29
Posted 17 October 2011 - 15:54
I'm pretty sure that neither Alfred Neubauer nor Rudi Caracciola spoke much (if any) English
Rudi made two quite long visits to the USA, in the winter of 1934/35 and after the war in 1946.
He had a lot of contact and stayed with people like Pop Myers, Peter de Paolo and Tony Hulman.
I would be surprised if everybody talked German with him all the time.
#30
Posted 17 October 2011 - 16:09
Agreed. In his autobiography he recounts conversations with the police when he was stopped for speeding, with spectators at a midget race, etc. These conversations must have been in English.I would be surprised if everybody talked German with him all the time.
#31
Posted 17 October 2011 - 17:03
#32
Posted 17 October 2011 - 18:32
I would be surprised if everybody talked German with him all the time.
Yes, that's right, but he may have had an interpreter. I may be totally wrong, however, but somehow I always thought hs English was rudimentary...
#33
Posted 17 October 2011 - 19:07
I'm pretty sure that neither Alfred Neubauer nor Rudi Caracciola spoke much (if any) English, and neither did Tazio Nuvolari, Alberto Ascari or Aurelio Lampredi. Farina's English was, I believe, quite rudimentary, but Antonio Brivio was apparently quite fluent.
As was Trossi. Villoresi Major spoke some English, I believe, while Taruffi spoke and wrote good English.
DCN
#34
Posted 17 October 2011 - 19:38
Yes, that's right, but he may have had an interpreter. I may be totally wrong, however, but somehow I always thought hs English was rudimentary...
Well, not everybody's English is laudable.
#35
Posted 17 October 2011 - 20:31
I can find
BRM - Fangio (RA), Behra(F), Schell(F/US)
Vandervall - Farina (I), Taruffi (I), Gonzalez (RA), Trintignant (F)
HWM - Frere (B), Giraud-Cabantous (F), Claes(B), Laurent (F), van der Lof (NL), Scherrer(CH)
Connaught - Claes (B), Pilette (B)
Cooper - Pedro Rodriguez (MEX), Rindt (A) (admittedly in the 60's)
and in sports cars
Jaguar - Biondetti (I)
Aston Martin - Mieres (RA), Tomasi (RA), Kerguen (F), Colas (F), Frere (b), Trintignant (F)
Lotus - Masson (F), Héchard (F)
I'm sure there must be more
#36
Posted 17 October 2011 - 21:25
Uhlenhaut's mother was of course English
#37
Posted 18 October 2011 - 10:35
In those circumstances the organisers might well have eased the language problems by having someone available who could speak English.
A look through some available motor racing books from the 1950's reveals some of the situations that arose.
When Mike Hawthorn first drove for Ferrari in 1953, he was able to communicate through Ugolini and Lampredi, who spoke French.
Five years later, he mentions having a talk with Ferrari in "my indifferent French" with the help of an interpreter. I don't know whether Peter Collins was any more of a linguist, although in a thread last year involving the identity of the slim young model(?) he was photographed with at Monte Carlo, he appeared not to have any communication problems. A more universal language maybe?
From a 1959 Le Mans book under Stirling Moss's name, an Aston-Martin drivers' meeting has Reg Parnell asking Paul Frere to translate for Maurice Trintignant. Frere, I imagine, was fluent in most of the Western Europeans languages.
But, people got by in those times. The British mangled their language in a multitude of different ways, the French insisted on theirs being spoken properly, especially in Quebec. The Italians and Greeks tried to understand what you were saying, the Swedes made fun of the Finns' non-European language. Has anything really changed in 50 years?
#38
Posted 18 October 2011 - 12:27
He had English-speaking parents, and went with his mother to the States in 1941. I imagine that by the time he returned to France in 1946 or 1947, if not before he left, his English was perfect
As I understood it Schell's first language was French.
If you look at Doug's BRM vol 1 you will find reproduced therein a letter or two from 'arree' to Raymond Mays (from memory) circa 1958 that is almost indecipherable so mangled is the English.
Meanwhile it is noticeable how many professional Italian, French, German, Spanish et al car and bike racers can manage good or basic English during interviews, ditto some professional footballers, something I suspect would not be the case with many of their British equivalents.
#39
Posted 18 October 2011 - 16:17
Edited by sramoa, 18 October 2011 - 16:27.
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#40
Posted 18 October 2011 - 17:24
#41
Posted 18 October 2011 - 19:38
I understand that the only argentinian driver able to speak english in the 50's was Roberto Mieres. Fangio spoke italian 'cause her parents were born in Italy. Gonzalez learned some Italian during the Galliate days with the ACA team. When they went to England to drive for the BRM team, Jackie Forrest Greene acted as interpreter.
Not quite - not as noted as Mieres, but Adolfo Schwelm Cruz was schooled in Windsor, had British relatives and spoke, and still does speak, very good English.
So much so, he told the English speaking journalists and announcers to add Cruz on the end of his name, in case they couldn't pronounce Schwelm, they could just call him Cruz!
#42
Posted 19 October 2011 - 00:21
Going the other way, most British drivers would have spoken some form of schoolboy French which would have given them a start in learning Italian. As he spent some time living in Paris, I expect that Peter Collins spoke fair French which would have helped him pick up Italian. I believe Jenks developed a working knowledge of colloqial Italian. German was another story - few Britons learned German. I am sure that Moss, Collins and Fitch probably communicated through Uhlenhaut; at Porsche, Von Hanstein spoke fluent English so Graham Hill and Gurney would have had no difficulties. And isn't Mrs Evi Gurney a former secretary of Von Hanstein's?
#43
Posted 19 October 2011 - 21:39
#44
Posted 19 October 2011 - 21:54
Indeed.Yes, I thought of Alice, too, but she wasn't with him in '34/35, was she?
Interestingly, in his autobiography he mentions that he realised that she would the ideal woman for him after returning in 1935 from his first visit to the States.
#45
Posted 24 October 2011 - 18:20