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Interested in Tyrrell 025 chassis history


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#1 funformula

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 20:26

After the successful investigation (thanks to the kind help of some forum members) about the history of my Arrows A8 showcar there might be also some people here who might have knowledge in the history of my latest toy, a Tyrrell 025 car.
It has no chassis plate and is in 2002 Minardi livery which suggests that it was part of Paul Stoddarts collection. It was in Malaysia as a display piece for some time.

Unfortunately the seller don´t know much about it and sold it as Tyrrell 024 which I think is wrong. Looking at the details of the monocoque it is most likely a 025 except the nose which is 024.
A former Tyrrell team member who was involved in designing the car told me that there were no showcars or mock up´s built only real race cars so mine must have been one of them.
But which one???

Maybe there are some former Tyrrell or Minardi team members in this forum who can shed some light on the history of my car.

Any information is gladly appreciated.

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#2 Andy Arnold

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 19:54

After the successful investigation (thanks to the kind help of some forum members) about the history of my Arrows A8 showcar there might be also some people here who might have knowledge in the history of my latest toy, a Tyrrell 025 car.
It has no chassis plate and is in 2002 Minardi livery which suggests that it was part of Paul Stoddarts collection. It was in Malaysia as a display piece for some time.

Unfortunately the seller don´t know much about it and sold it as Tyrrell 024 which I think is wrong. Looking at the details of the monocoque it is most likely a 025 except the nose which is 024.
A former Tyrrell team member who was involved in designing the car told me that there were no showcars or mock up´s built only real race cars so mine must have been one of them.
But which one???

Maybe there are some former Tyrrell or Minardi team members in this forum who can shed some light on the history of my car.

Any information is gladly appreciated.


This site may help as it shows somw known owners of cars

http://www.f1carstod...ars/Tyrrell.htm

#3 funformula

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 20:20

Does anyboby know if Tyrrell did test drives in 1997 with the 025 car with smaller track to simulate the new 1998 F1 regulations?
My car has shorter wishbones to fit the new 180cm wide track regulations instead the 200cm track the 025 normally had.
The wishbones are properly made, not made from water pipes as you would expect for showcar use.

Any thoughts?

#4 Peter Morley

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 18:52

Does anyboby know if Tyrrell did test drives in 1997 with the 025 car with smaller track to simulate the new 1998 F1 regulations?
My car has shorter wishbones to fit the new 180cm wide track regulations instead the 200cm track the 025 normally had.
The wishbones are properly made, not made from water pipes as you would expect for showcar use.

Any thoughts?


Have you talked to the European Aviation/Minardi lot in Ledbury?
They still look after some of Paul Stoddart's Tyrrells, such as the ones belonging to Frits van Eerd.
Frits usually has two of the same model at race meetings and I think one is a narrow track version - they possibly used different widths at different circuits.

#5 Thundersport

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 19:55

Peter I think they are both narrow track cars.

#6 funformula

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 20:40

Thanks for this information.
I wasn´t aware that European Aviation is still involved in race business.

#7 Peter Morley

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 23:25

Thanks for this information.
I wasn´t aware that European Aviation is still involved in race business.


They still look after some cars and I think they still run the 2 (or 3?) seater cars for promotional events - look for something like Minardi F1x2.


#8 Peter Morley

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 00:02

Peter I think they are both narrow track cars.


You're right, they are both 026s so as Funformula said they would be narrow track.
I remember one of the team saying there was a difference between the two cars, but it could be something like low & high downforce...

BTW I just heard that this Tyrrell was converted into a showcar for Alex Yoong, hence the trip to Malaysia.

#9 Andy Arnold

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 13:28

You're right, they are both 026s so as Funformula said they would be narrow track.
I remember one of the team saying there was a difference between the two cars, but it could be something like low & high downforce...

BTW I just heard that this Tyrrell was converted into a showcar for Alex Yoong, hence the trip to Malaysia.


I remember reading a race report on one of the euroboss races which said he had 1 car set up for dry running the other for wet

#10 funformula

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 16:57

They still look after some cars and I think they still run the 2 (or 3?) seater cars for promotional events - look for something like Minardi F1x2.


I send them an email but didn´t get response yet, are they still in business?

Frits van Eerd owns two Tyrrell 025 (chassis 02 & 04 ?), a collector in France has one (chassis 05?)
Does anyone know, how much Tyrrell 025 were built? I have two sources, one say 5 cars built the other say 6 cars.

Are there forum members who were Tyrrell or Minardi/ledbury team members back then and are willing to share some information?

At the Minardi auction back in 2005? there were several Tyrrell cars for sale. Has anyone an auction catalogue to confirm which cars were sold?

Thanks for all efforts

#11 funformula

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 22:22

Does anybody has a copy of Giorgio Piolas book "Technical analysis" about the 1996 and 1997 F1 saison?
These books show which chassis numbers were used for the races, which ones were abandoned because of damage, which development was done to the cars etc.

Maybe I´ll find some more information to trace the history of my Tyrrell.


#12 ralt12

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:31

Does anybody has a copy of Giorgio Piolas book "Technical analysis" about the 1996 and 1997 F1 saison?
These books show which chassis numbers were used for the races, which ones were abandoned because of damage, which development was done to the cars etc.

Maybe I´ll find some more information to trace the history of my Tyrrell.



PM sent.


#13 RaceEngineer27

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 13:18

Does anyboby know if Tyrrell did test drives in 1997 with the 025 car with smaller track to simulate the new 1998 F1 regulations?
My car has shorter wishbones to fit the new 180cm wide track regulations instead the 200cm track the 025 normally had.
The wishbones are properly made, not made from water pipes as you would expect for showcar use.

Any thoughts?

Tyrrell performed 2 tests with a narrow track 025 in preparation for 1998: both with chassis 025/2. First test was at Silverstone GP on 3rd-4th July 1997, second was at Monza on 16th-17th July. Mika Salo was driving on both occasions.

#14 funformula

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 22:25

Tyrrell performed 2 tests with a narrow track 025 in preparation for 1998: both with chassis 025/2. First test was at Silverstone GP on 3rd-4th July 1997, second was at Monza on 16th-17th July. Mika Salo was driving on both occasions.


Thank you for this information, where did you get it from?

#15 RaceEngineer27

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 13:21

Thank you for this information, where did you get it from?

I was Salo's race engineer at Tyrrell.

#16 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 13:54

Does anybody has a copy of Giorgio Piolas book "Technical analysis" about the 1996 and 1997 F1 saison?

Ff: I believe Piola's first TA book was from 1999. There should be yearbooks out or magazine that printed chassis numbers.
We have Autosport.

#17 midgrid

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 15:46

I have a collection of Autosports from 1997, which give the chassis numbers as follows:

Australia: 025/2 (Verstappen) & 025/3 (Salo).
Brazil: 025/2 (Verstappen) & 025/3 (Salo) - Salo qualified in the spare car.
Argentina: 025/2 (Verstappen) & 025/3 (Salo).
San Marino: 025/2 (Verstappen) & 025/3 (Salo).
Monaco: 025/2 (Verstappen) & 025/3 (Salo) - Verstappen qualified in the spare car.
Spain: 025/4 (Verstappen) & 025/3 (Salo).
Canada: 025/2 (Verstappen) & 025/3 (Salo).
France: 025/4 (Verstappen) & 025/3 (Salo).
Great Britain: 025/4 (Verstappen) & 025/3 (Salo).
Germany: 025/4 (Verstappen) & 025/1 (Salo).
Hungary: 025/4 (Verstappen) & 025/1 (Salo).
Belgium: 025/4 (Verstappen) & 025/1 (Salo).
Italy: 025/4 (Verstappen) & 025/3 (Salo) - Salo qualified in the spare car.
Austria: 025/4 (Verstappen) & 025/5 (Salo) - Salo qualified in the spare car.
Luxembourg: 025/4 (Verstappen) & 025/5 (Salo).
Japan: 025/3 (Verstappen) & 025/5 (Salo).
Europe: 025/3 (Verstappen) & 025/5 (Salo).

Giorgio Piola also wrote a technical column which appeared in every race report, which includes the following information:

Brazil: new engine ECU; modifications to 025/2's steering column to give Verstappen more room.
Argentina: "X-wings" used for the first time; upgraded development engine for 025/2.
San Marino: new rear bodywork.
Monaco: extra winglets in front of the rear tyes.
Spain: X-wings removed; endplates removed from nose winglets; new ED5-spec engine for both race cars.
Canada: exhaust blowing on the top of the diffuser for the first time.
Hungary: X-wings restored; new front-wing endplates.
Belgium: X-wings removed.
Italy: sensors fitted to driveshaft to measure torque.

#18 midgrid

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 15:50

And from the 1997-98 edition of Autocourse, the spare car:

Australia - Great Britain: 025/1; Germany - Hungary: 025/3; Belgium - Europe: 025/1.

Edited by midgrid, 09 January 2012 - 15:50.


#19 funformula

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 18:02

I was Salo's race engineer at Tyrrell.


PM sent

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#20 funformula

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:00

Still no news about the history of my Tyrrell but some more questions:

Where are the Tyrrell 024´s? Never seen one on track after their GP-career.
-searching on the internet I found one in 1997 PIAA colours and 025-nose displayed in Japan
-one was displayed at British GP 1998 in 1998 colours
-one was displayed at British GP at the BAR team presentation in blue/grey/gold livery equal to the design of Villeneuves 1999 pre-saison testing BAR 001
-what about the Stoddart Minardi auction around 2005? I recall a Tyrrell offered for auction, which has a large cut out section at the left side of the monocoque to get a view of drivers seating position. Can´t remember exactly but I think it was a 024 rather than a 025.
-regarding Stoddart-Minardi auction, does anyone still has a stock list about the offered cars to check the chassis numbers?

Regarding Tyrrell 025:
-it is said that Frits van Eerd owns two cars
-one French guy has a white one
-another frenchman has a black one with wider "bulky" monocoque sides
-some time ago the was a black one with PIAA livery for sale

Makes total five cars, so no more room for mine.


#21 funformula

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:00

Still no news about the history of my Tyrrell but some more questions:

Where are the Tyrrell 024´s? Never seen one on track after their GP-career.
-searching on the internet I found one in 1997 PIAA colours and 025-nose displayed in Japan
-one was displayed at British GP 1998 in 1998 colours
-one was displayed at British GP 1998 at the BAR team presentation in blue/grey/gold livery equal to the design of Villeneuves 1999 pre-saison testing BAR 001
-what about the Stoddart Minardi auction around 2005? I recall a Tyrrell offered for auction, which has a large cut out section at the left side of the monocoque to get a view of drivers seating position. Can´t remember exactly but I think it was a 024 rather than a 025.
-regarding Stoddart-Minardi auction, does anyone still has a stock list about the offered cars to check the chassis numbers?

Regarding Tyrrell 025:
-it is said that Frits van Eerd owns two cars
-one French guy has a white one
-another frenchman has a black one with wider "bulky" monocoque sides
-some time ago the was a black one with PIAA livery for sale

Makes total five cars, so no more room for mine.

Edited by funformula, 18 May 2012 - 11:01.


#22 funformula

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 21:04

Found a list of the Tyrrell cars sold at the Minardi auction

Tyrrell 024-02
Tyrrell 024-04
Tyrrell 024-06

Tyrrell 025-02
Tyrrell 025-04

From memory I don´t recall a Tyrrell in Minardi livery at the auction, so it seems that my car maybe is 024-01.
For sure from Tyrrell 024-04 onwards the monocoque has the thicker cockpit surrounding.
No idea if 024-03 was built with thick or thin cockpit surrounding, so this one could be an option too.


#23 David Lawson

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 22:56

This photograph I took of a Tyrrell 025 at Brands Hatch won't add much to this thread.

It is during Stoddart's ownership but for the life of me I can't remember when I took the picture, I would guess it is at a BOSS meeting at Brands Hatch in about 2003/2004

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#24 Thundersport

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 23:24

A little earlier than that I think poss 1999 Nigel Greensall and Paul Stoddart took them round in the lunch break as they weren't eligable for Boss at the time.

#25 Gary C

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:42

Blimey. It comes to something whern you see a car on TNF that I worked with when it was brand new. When I say 'worked with', I mean I worked on Bernie's digital TV coverage at the time and remember I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw those bluddy stupid wings on the sidepods.

#26 funformula

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:52

Blimey. It comes to something whern you see a car on TNF that I worked with when it was brand new. When I say 'worked with', I mean I worked on Bernie's digital TV coverage at the time and remember I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw those bluddy stupid wings on the sidepods.


The towerwings were looking...let´s say unusual at the time.
But in the case of the Tyrrell shown in the picture above they are looking good, at least from my point of view. The first version of these wings were far less elegant, because they were helt by a vertical and a diagonal pole. The second version as shown in the picture only has the diagonal pole which makes the car look a bit like a Star Wars X-Fighter.

But there were other solutions from other teams which were indeed quite ugly. But from todays point of view we are used to far more....errrg "interesting" looking F1 cars :drunk: