253 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

Lovely picture of the Eagle.

Remarkably, Roger and I counted TWELVE cars at the Festival that had a direct connection with Daniel Sexton Gurney. It could have been a Dan Celebration, had they all been housed together.

[arttidesco]

Lovely picture of the Eagle.

Remarkably, Roger and I counted TWELVE cars at the Festival that had a direct connection with Daniel Sexton Gurney. It could have been a Dan Celebration, had they all been housed together.

I thought the same thing when I stopped counting at six !

[Giraffe]

I thought the same thing when I stopped counting at six !

Ralf. if Barry says there were twelve, I can assure you there were twelve.

Re. the Lotus 63, the last I saw of the Donington car was in the back of the Hall & Hall transporter at a Mallory Wednesday towards the end of last season. That being chassis 63/1, I was a little surprised that it wore comp. number #2 at Goodwood, if indeed it is the ex-Donington car.

(Edit: I've just checked my 1969 Oulton Park Gold Cup programme and of course Rindt ran under comp. number #2, which would explain it. )

Edited by Giraffe, 05 July 2012 - 07:57.

[Doug Nye]

Barrie Baxter's Maserati 151 embodies the Casner crash engine, transaxle and brakes - and the rebuild is now near millimetre perfect in matching the long-lost original. That tail treatment with the divided top lip and wrap-down rear screen bothered us both as we studied it...perhaps the cause of a rear lift problem which contributed to the Casner disaster? This might well have to be addressed before the car is used in anger. But after five years' work - what a bazooka! How big a heart must the owner have? Gentlemen, I believe a round of applause would be in order...

DCN

[Giraffe]

Gentlemen, I believe a round of applause would be in order...

DCN

Hear hear! The car has all the makings of a Revival showstopper!

[cdrewett]

Barrie Baxter's Maserati 151 embodies the Casner crash engine, transaxle and brakes - and the rebuild is now near millimetre perfect in matching the long-lost original. That tail treatment with the divided top lip and wrap-down rear screen bothered us both as we studied it...perhaps the cause of a rear lift problem which contributed to the Casner disaster? This might well have to be addressed before the car is used in anger. But after five years' work - what a bazooka! How big a heart must the owner have? Gentlemen, I believe a round of applause would be in order...

DCN

Absolutely Doug. Barrie and I agreed to do a Goodwood Radio interview around the car, but with his bike commitments it never happened. I hope we see the Maser in anger at the Revival. One of my treats of the weekend was getting John Cleland and Steve Soper together round a table to talk about their rivalry and mutual respect. John was very vocal about the standard of driving in current BTCC. I hope TNFers enjoyed Goodwood Radio.
Chris

[kayemod]

Cleland and Steve Soper together round a table to talk about their rivalry and mutual respect. John was very vocal about the standard of driving in current BTCC.

Was the deciding round of the 1992 championship mentioned at all?

[cdrewett]

Was the deciding round of the 1992 championship mentioned at all?

Yes, but with diplomacy and humour.
Chris

[kayemod]

Yes, but with diplomacy and humour.
Chris

It's taken the pair of them twenty years to get over it, but clearly, time is a great healer.

[hamsterace]

John was very vocal about the standard of driving in current BTCC.
[/quote]


Forgive me, but I seem to recall that Cleland wasn't exactly backwards in coming forwards when it came to the odd questionable move!?! Whether you blame the Super Touring regulations, manufacturer pressure for wins, or plain old red mist - he certainly seemed to be involved in his fair share of accidents.

If it had been Jack Sears, Frank Gardner or John Whitmore taking the moral high ground then I would give rather more credit to such a stance...

Apologies for the thread drift.

[Macca]

JC's moves tended to be in the way of 'late lunges down the inside', rather than the finely-judged tapping of a rear corner to push someone deliberately into a spin, or pushing their bumper all the way down a straight......

Nice lot (or whatever the collective noun is) of Lotus's - pity the 43 couldn't be there, even as a static...........and the 49 still has the ugly replica nose!

Has anyone got more photos of the bikes, either track or paddock?

It looks to me as though, for the first time since 1994, there wasn't a single current F1 car running - the TV programme on Sunday (same pathetic format as last year) said the Mercedes was last year's car with a new nose grafted on, and the 2012 Williams that was in the publicity list doesn't appear anywhere.

Paul M

[f1steveuk]

I'm curious about the side pod's on this one. Is this the "flat bottom" test car that appeared in GPI??

[Hamish Robson]

Hi Steve,

I think this is the early '81 RE20B which was only used for a short time (guessing Kyalami, USGPWest, Brazil) until the RE30 was ready. Here's another view showing the venturies:



Maybe the car you're thinking of (I think) was an RE30B (seen here at the FoS 2004: http://www.flickr.co...ear/5761286349/ - note the big wings and nose-down stance) which I thought looked very awkward as a flat-bottomed car, which again (I think) was used in early '83?

Edited by Hamish Robson, 05 July 2012 - 16:17.

[T54]

Revolution modular wheels on a 72? That's truly bad taste... borderline criminal.

[f1steveuk]

Hi Steve,

I think this is the early '81 RE20B which was only used for a short time (guessing Kyalami, USGPWest, Brazil) until the RE30 was ready. Here's another view showing the venturies:



Maybe the car you're thinking of (I think) was an RE30B (seen here at the FoS 2004: http://www.flickr.co...ear/5761286349/ - note the big wings and nose-down stance) which I thought looked very awkward as a flat-bottomed car, which again (I think) was used in early '83?

Absolutely spot on!! The shape just reminded me so much of the picture in Grand Prix International of the first flat bottom test car, though they were plain white. I'd post the picture, but it's at home, and I'm not!

Superb pictures for one and all, thanks.

[D-Type]

JC's moves tended to be in the way of 'late lunges down the inside', rather than the finely-judged tapping of a rear corner to push someone deliberately into a spin, or pushing their bumper all the way down a straight......

Nice lot (or whatever the collective noun is) of Lotus's - pity the 43 couldn't be there, even as a static...........and the 49 still has the ugly replica nose!

Has anyone got more photos of the bikes, either track or paddock?

It looks to me as though, for the first time since 1994, there wasn't a single current F1 car running - the TV programme on Sunday (same pathetic format as last year) said the Mercedes was last year's car with a new nose grafted on, and the 2012 Williams that was in the publicity list doesn't appear anywhere.

Paul M

I thought they weren't allowed to run a current car as the FIA, in their wisdom, class a pootle up the hill as being "Testing". The best they can do is last year's car.

[Macca]

I believe last year there was either a Caterham/Lotus or a Renault/Lotus 2011 model; the testing rules, I believe, ban testing on F1 circuits except for a couple of official tests, limit the mileage per year, and require 'publicity' runs to be done on special (i.e. specially bad) tyres provided for the purpose.(though I stand to be corrected and no doubt will be!)

So I guess the teams no longer regard the FoS as important enough to use some of their annual mileage.......

Paul M

[condor]

I thought they weren't allowed to run a current car as the FIA, in their wisdom, class a pootle up the hill as being "Testing". The best they can do is last year's car.

I thought those were the rules too

[Giraffe]

Re. the Lotus 63, the last I saw of the Donington car was in the back of the Hall & Hall transporter at a Mallory Wednesday towards the end of last season.

By giraffe138 at 2010-06-23

[ensign14]

I thought they weren't allowed to run a current car as the FIA, in their wisdom, class a pootle up the hill as being "Testing". The best they can do is last year's car.

I can sort of understand the wisdom though. Allow Goodwood, and how long before there's a sprint jolly in or near, say, Maranello that happens to be in the form of a loop of around three miles of differing corners?

[Doug Nye]

1 - Maserati 151 stands 39-inches tall, about 3-inches lower than the 250GTO and an inch lower than guess what?


2 - The great George Wingard in his Teddy Tetzlaff GP Fiat


3 - The ex-Willment/Jack Sears Brands Hatch '64 Cobra 289 and the Chequered Flag Brands Hatch '66 Cobra 427 - plus a few friends...



4 - NMM Beaulieu chief engineer Doug Hill poised for a few more frights per mile in the BRM V16 Mark I


5 - Probably the finest pound for pound driver in the entire line-up waits patiently in the Connaught B-Type...


6 - The top paddock at Goodwood never ceases to amaze...when full it always provides an absolute feast for the eye, heart and brain.


7 - Tony Brooks enjoyed his runs in the Connaught and is elated at the success of his book - so thanks from him to everyone
who has bought it.


8 - The imposing V8 engine in the Maserati 151 - fuel injected, 4-cams and original to the Simone/Casner 1965 Le Mans car...


9 - Mike Bennett (left), Merv Therriault and '353' - the impeccably-presented Lotus Type 12.


10 - Factory Mercedes-Benz mechanic Enzo warming up the ex-Lang/Grupp 1952 Carrera PanAmericana second-placed W194 300SL Coupe - for a suitable driver


11 - The 300SL Coupe cockpit is incredibly cosy and confined - note the surprisingly long-throw gearchange. This individual was the burgundy-coloured car
crashed by Caracciola at the Bremgarten in his career-ending accident, and then rebuilt with new front frame to provide a second Coupe for Mexico. The team
took two Spyders and two Coupes there, for the crews to choose between. The team leaders raced the Coupes.


12 - View from the bridge, on the return run down the Goodwood hill. This is the reverse view of the top corner, out over the coastal plain...just luvverly.


12B - The former Donington Collection Brabham BT3 in the hands of its new owner - Rick Hall in attendance. The car's exquisite rebuild in 1970-71 needed little extra work.
The Climax V8 engine fired first time they tried...after some 40 years of silence. This one has always been a special favourite of mine...


14 - The Henry Ford Museum's fabulously original Le Mans-winning Ford Mark IV...


15 - Here drove Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt...

Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 06 July 2012 - 11:29.

[arttidesco]

Nice work Doug, I'm sure a few of us might have traded our right arm's for a ride in the 300 SL, I know I would, good job I'm left handed

[Giraffe]

Did anybody get a picture of the Mercedes C291 with the engine cover off?

Historically significant as the last in a long line of Untertürkheim built racing engines?

Sadly it was a static display Roger, and I don't think the engine cover came off over the weekend.


By giraffe138 at 2012-07-05

[driverider]

Barrie Baxter's Maserati 151 embodies the Casner crash engine, transaxle and brakes - and the rebuild is now near millimetre perfect in matching the long-lost original. That tail treatment with the divided top lip and wrap-down rear screen bothered us both as we studied it...perhaps the cause of a rear lift problem which contributed to the Casner disaster? This might well have to be addressed before the car is used in anger. But after five years' work - what a bazooka! How big a heart must the owner have? Gentlemen, I believe a round of applause would be in order...

DCN

Doug, thank you for your kind words, and all those of folks I managed to share conversations with at Goodwood.

There are other original elements including the unique drop box and some suspension parts and we also rebuilt a new, from the original 'bent', DeDion for obvious reasons!
As is reported correctly elsewhere the factory supported Mr Kaus with the resurrection of the car, and alongside providing original drawings for the new chassis they also provided the original body buck for Allegretti, who built the original body, to build another.

What Steve and I have done is look carefully at the evolution and development of 002 through to its final incarnation in 1965 and try to stay faithful to this thinking and action.
I hope to share our excitement and passion for this project with everyone and anyone interested. I can't wait to hear it run and wheel it out on a track but I have to say that the setting up and shaking down will be a long process but hopefully fun!

[driverider]

Absolutely Doug. Barrie and I agreed to do a Goodwood Radio interview around the car, but with his bike commitments it never happened. I hope we see the Maser in anger at the Revival. One of my treats of the weekend was getting John Cleland and Steve Soper together round a table to talk about their rivalry and mutual respect. John was very vocal about the standard of driving in current BTCC. I hope TNFers enjoyed Goodwood Radio.
Chris

Chris, sorry we didn't get to the car together - hopefully next time
Was great to see Kenny Brack at the festival - a driver of immense talent as he demonstrated at last years Revival

[Alan Cox]

12B - The former Donington Collection Brabham BT3 in the hands of its new owner - Rick Hall in attendance. The car's exquisite rebuild in 1970-71 needed little extra work.
The Climax V8 engine fired first time they tried...after some 40 years of silence. This one has always been a special favourite of mine...

Hear, hear! Good to see it out in the fresh air once more. Thank you for the photos, Doug

[kayemod]

10 - Factory Mercedes-Benz mechanic Enzo warming up the ex-Lang/Grupp 1952 Carrera PanAmericana second-placed W194 300SL Coupe - for a suitable driver


12 - View from the bridge, on the return run down the Goodwood hill. This is the reverse view of the top corner, out over the coastal plain...just luvverly.


15 - Here drove Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt...

Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

I'm sure that the question on every TNF's mind around this time of year Doug, is just how much do you have to pay Lord March to do what you do at every FoS?

[Doug Nye]

Hmm - shut up yer fool. Don't give 'im any ideas.

DCN

[RTH]

Nice work Doug, I'm sure a few of us might have traded our right arm's for a ride in the 300 SL, I know I would, good job I'm left handed ;)

We know it is said in jest, but we do have a racing driver who has lost her right eye this week and is still critical in a hospital bed in Addenbookes Cambridge.
Art, I know you don't mean it but you don't want to lose your right anything for any reason.
Sure we all wish Maria DeVillota well. A horrible tragic crash that should not have happened.

[bradbury west]

Looks like PV in the red Ford, Doug. Is that the case?
Roger Lund

[arttidesco]

We know it is said in jest, but we do have a racing driver who has lost her right eye this week and is still critical in a hospital bed in Addenbookes Cambridge.
Art, I know you don't mean it but you don't want to lose your right anything for any reason.
Sure we all wish Maria DeVillota well. A horrible tragic crash that should not have happened.

As you say I am sure we all wish Maria well

[Hse289]

Great pictures everyone

It was nice to meet up with three members and have a chat. Hi Barry, Roger and Doug.

Im enjoying the Tony Brooks autobiography very much. Doug Nye arranged for me to meet Tony Brooks and get my book signed. Well, that really made my day. Thank you Tony for being patient and kind.

Here is a small selection of pictures my son took.




BRM P261


Shelby Cobra 427


Stirling Moss in the Lotus - Climax 18


Ferrari 312/68


McLaren - Chevrolet M20


McLaren M1

[DOHC]

My favourite car:

They don't come any better

[Doug Nye]

Looks like PV in the red Ford, Doug. Is that the case?
Roger Lund

Yes. One declining old Le Mans veteran appreciating another.

DCN

[Duc-Man]

Does anybody know who drove/ownes the Shadow Mk.III that was there?
I saw a shot of the car and I'm not sure of the name on it. There is Fred Cziska's and Jackie Oliver's names down on the sills and a third name high on the side as well. Reads like S.Druck.

I also would be very happy if somebody could post some pictures of the car.

[MODE]

Scott Drnek

[h4887]

Looks like PV in the red Ford, Doug. Is that the case?
Roger Lund

PV?

[Tim Murray]

http://www.racingspo...-Vestey-GB.html

[Doug Nye]

Indeed - though not at all sure several of those alleged entries are correct.

DCN

[Duc-Man]

Scott Drnek

Still leaves me with the question: was he just the driving the car or did Fred Cziska sell the car and he is the new owner?

[275 GTB-4]

8 - The imposing V8 engine in the Maserati 151 - fuel injected, 4-cams and original to the Simone/Casner 1965 Le Mans car...


10 - Factory Mercedes-Benz mechanic Enzo warming up the ex-Lang/Grupp 1952 Carrera PanAmericana second-placed W194 300SL Coupe - for a suitable driver

Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

I'm sure that the question on every TNF's mind around this time of year Doug, is just how much do you have to pay Lord March to do what you do at every FoS?

I was sure that the question on every TNF's mind around this time of year Doug, is why Enzo wasn't using his furled, factory-provided, throttle-blipper to warm the engine?

God that Maser engine is beautiful...thanks to all for the lovely high quality photographs from the FoS!

[Nev]

I was unable to get to the FoS this year but really enjoyed the pics/comments in this thread - thanks for posting!

[arttidesco]

Still leaves me with the question: was he just the driving the car or did Fred Cziska sell the car and he is the new owner?

According to the programme Fred Cziska still owns the car which was driven by Scott Dmek.

[D-Type]

10 - Factory Mercedes-Benz mechanic Enzo warming up the ex-Lang/Grupp 1952 Carrera PanAmericana second-placed W194 300SL Coupe - for a suitable driver


11 - The 300SL Coupe cockpit is incredibly cosy and confined - note the surprisingly long-throw gearchange. This individual was the burgundy-coloured car
crashed by Caracciola at the Bremgarten in his career-ending accident, and then rebuilt with new front frame to provide a second Coupe for Mexico. The team
took two Spyders and two Coupes there, for the crews to choose between. The team leaders raced the Coupes.


12 - View from the bridge, on the return run down the Goodwood hill. This is the reverse view of the top corner, out over the coastal plain...just luvverly.


.

Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

There were two 300SL or W194s there. One was described on the plaque as a 300SL and had small gullwing doors that stopped at, shall we say, the wing line or bottom of the window while the other [the one pictured here] was described as a W194 and had doors cutting into the cills rather like the later production car.
I understood that the car that first appeared in the 1952 Mille Miglia and made its final race appearance in the Carrera Panamericana was designated the model W194 by Mercedes internally but 300SL for public consumption. And these two designations applied to all the 1952 cars. Then the production 300SL was numbered the W198.

Can anyone clarify the story as to when the W194's doors were enlarged and why?

[Odseybod]

There were two 300SL or W194s there. One was described on the plaque as a 300SL and had small gullwing doors that stopped at, shall we say, the wing line or bottom of the window while the other [the one pictured here] was described as a W194 and had doors cutting into the cills rather like the later production car.
I understood that the car that first appeared in the 1952 Mille Miglia and made its final race appearance in the Carrera Panamericana was designated the model W194 by Mercedes internally but 300SL for public consumption. And these two designations applied to all the 1952 cars. Then the production 300SL was numbered the W198.

Can anyone clarify the story as to when the W194's doors were enlarged and why?

Can't answer the question but can illustrate the two different versions:






Over to the experts.

[Tim Murray]

As I understand it (based on various sources) the cars all had the small doors when they first appeared at the 1952 Mille Miglia. MB knew, however, that in this form they didn't comply with the Le Mans regulations, so at their next race at Bremgarten they took three cars with small doors and one with the full 'gull wing' doors which met the Le Mans regs. At Le Mans they all obviously had the larger doors. Then for the support race at the German GP in August they cut the tops off three of the cars, turning them into roadsters, and also built a brand new roadster from scratch. For the Carrera Panamerica they entered a Le Mans car with gull wing doors, another car with small doors (apparently the car Caracciola crashed at Bremgarten, rebuilt) and a roadster. (Edit: as explained by Doug in post 124 above.)

Edited by Tim Murray, 09 July 2012 - 11:56.

[David Beard]

Did I hear the commentator correctly...DCN driving this Cobra?

[Barry Boor]

Yes, well, one of the Cobras. We tried to catch his eye as he was waiting in the Cathedral Paddock before going out but I think he was in 'racing' mode and appeared somewhat preoccupied.

[D-Type]

As I understand it (based on various sources) the cars all had the small doors when they first appeared at the 1952 Mille Miglia. MB knew, however, that in this form they didn't comply with the Le Mans regulations, so at their next race at Bremgarten they took three cars with small doors and one with the full 'gull wing' doors which met the Le Mans regs. At Le Mans they all obviously had the larger doors. Then for the support race at the German GP in August they cut the tops off three of the cars, turning them into roadsters, and also built a brand new roadster from scratch. For the Carrera Panamerica they entered a Le Mans car with gull wing doors, another car with small doors (apparently the car Caracciola crashed at Bremgarten, rebuilt) and a roadster. (Edit: as explained by Doug in post 124 above.)

Thanks, Tim. I thought it was something like that. What puzzled me was that although the programme describes both cars as "W194", the boards in the paddock stalls - one said "W194" while the other said "300SL". And knowing the well-deserved Mercedes reputation for thoroughness, I put two and two together and didn't get four.

[Tim Murray]

... the boards in the paddock stalls - one said "W194" while the other said "300SL".

That puzzled me too. but I have noticed in the past that those paddock boards are sometimes inaccurate.