Jump to content


Photo

Goodwood Festival of Speed 2012


  • Please log in to reply
247 replies to this topic

#101 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,847 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 05 July 2012 - 05:50

Lovely picture of the Eagle. :up:

Remarkably, Roger and I counted TWELVE cars at the Festival that had a direct connection with Daniel Sexton Gurney. It could have been a Dan Celebration, had they all been housed together.

Advertisement

#102 arttidesco

arttidesco
  • Member

  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:23

Lovely picture of the Eagle. :up:

Remarkably, Roger and I counted TWELVE cars at the Festival that had a direct connection with Daniel Sexton Gurney. It could have been a Dan Celebration, had they all been housed together.


I thought the same thing when I stopped counting at six ! :drunk:



#103 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,010 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:53

I thought the same thing when I stopped counting at six ! :drunk:


Ralf. if Barry says there were twelve, I can assure you there were twelve. :cool:

Re. the Lotus 63, the last I saw of the Donington car was in the back of the Hall & Hall transporter at a Mallory Wednesday towards the end of last season. That being chassis 63/1, I was a little surprised that it wore comp. number #2 at Goodwood, if indeed it is the ex-Donington car.

(Edit: I've just checked my 1969 Oulton Park Gold Cup programme and of course Rindt ran under comp. number #2, which would explain it. :smoking: )

Edited by Giraffe, 05 July 2012 - 07:57.


#104 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 8,341 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:09

Barrie Baxter's Maserati 151 embodies the Casner crash engine, transaxle and brakes - and the rebuild is now near millimetre perfect in matching the long-lost original. That tail treatment with the divided top lip and wrap-down rear screen bothered us both as we studied it...perhaps the cause of a rear lift problem which contributed to the Casner disaster? This might well have to be addressed before the car is used in anger. But after five years' work - what a bazooka! How big a heart must the owner have? Gentlemen, I believe a round of applause would be in order...

DCN

#105 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,010 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:24

Gentlemen, I believe a round of applause would be in order...

DCN


Hear hear! The car has all the makings of a Revival showstopper! :clap:

#106 cdrewett

cdrewett
  • Member

  • 361 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:36

Barrie Baxter's Maserati 151 embodies the Casner crash engine, transaxle and brakes - and the rebuild is now near millimetre perfect in matching the long-lost original. That tail treatment with the divided top lip and wrap-down rear screen bothered us both as we studied it...perhaps the cause of a rear lift problem which contributed to the Casner disaster? This might well have to be addressed before the car is used in anger. But after five years' work - what a bazooka! How big a heart must the owner have? Gentlemen, I believe a round of applause would be in order...

DCN


Absolutely Doug. Barrie and I agreed to do a Goodwood Radio interview around the car, but with his bike commitments it never happened. I hope we see the Maser in anger at the Revival. One of my treats of the weekend was getting John Cleland and Steve Soper together round a table to talk about their rivalry and mutual respect. John was very vocal about the standard of driving in current BTCC. I hope TNFers enjoyed Goodwood Radio.
Chris

#107 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,188 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:41

Cleland and Steve Soper together round a table to talk about their rivalry and mutual respect. John was very vocal about the standard of driving in current BTCC.


Was the deciding round of the 1992 championship mentioned at all?


#108 cdrewett

cdrewett
  • Member

  • 361 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:45

Was the deciding round of the 1992 championship mentioned at all?


Yes, but with diplomacy and humour.
Chris

#109 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,188 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:44

Yes, but with diplomacy and humour.
Chris



It's taken the pair of them twenty years to get over it, but clearly, time is a great healer.


#110 hamsterace

hamsterace
  • Member

  • 84 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 05 July 2012 - 10:36

John was very vocal about the standard of driving in current BTCC.
[/quote]


Forgive me, but I seem to recall that Cleland wasn't exactly backwards in coming forwards when it came to the odd questionable move!?! Whether you blame the Super Touring regulations, manufacturer pressure for wins, or plain old red mist - he certainly seemed to be involved in his fair share of accidents.

If it had been Jack Sears, Frank Gardner or John Whitmore taking the moral high ground then I would give rather more credit to such a stance...

Apologies for the thread drift.

#111 Macca

Macca
  • Member

  • 3,333 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 05 July 2012 - 15:36

JC's moves tended to be in the way of 'late lunges down the inside', rather than the finely-judged tapping of a rear corner to push someone deliberately into a spin, or pushing their bumper all the way down a straight......

Nice lot (or whatever the collective noun is) of Lotus's - pity the 43 couldn't be there, even as a static...........and the 49 still has the ugly replica nose!

Has anyone got more photos of the bikes, either track or paddock?

It looks to me as though, for the first time since 1994, there wasn't a single current F1 car running - the TV programme on Sunday (same pathetic format as last year) said the Mercedes was last year's car with a new nose grafted on, and the 2012 Williams that was in the publicity list doesn't appear anywhere.

Paul M

#112 f1steveuk

f1steveuk
  • Member

  • 3,173 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 05 July 2012 - 15:51

Posted Image



I'm curious about the side pod's on this one. Is this the "flat bottom" test car that appeared in GPI??

#113 Hamish Robson

Hamish Robson
  • Member

  • 347 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 July 2012 - 16:16

Hi Steve,

I think this is the early '81 RE20B which was only used for a short time (guessing Kyalami, USGPWest, Brazil) until the RE30 was ready. Here's another view showing the venturies:

Posted Image

Maybe the car you're thinking of (I think) was an RE30B (seen here at the FoS 2004: http://www.flickr.co...ear/5761286349/ - note the big wings and nose-down stance) which I thought looked very awkward as a flat-bottomed car, which again (I think) was used in early '83?

Edited by Hamish Robson, 05 July 2012 - 16:17.


#114 T54

T54
  • Member

  • 2,479 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 05 July 2012 - 17:19

Posted Image

Revolution modular wheels on a 72? That's truly bad taste... borderline criminal. :lol:

#115 f1steveuk

f1steveuk
  • Member

  • 3,173 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 05 July 2012 - 17:42

Hi Steve,

I think this is the early '81 RE20B which was only used for a short time (guessing Kyalami, USGPWest, Brazil) until the RE30 was ready. Here's another view showing the venturies:

Posted Image

Maybe the car you're thinking of (I think) was an RE30B (seen here at the FoS 2004: http://www.flickr.co...ear/5761286349/ - note the big wings and nose-down stance) which I thought looked very awkward as a flat-bottomed car, which again (I think) was used in early '83?


Absolutely spot on!! The shape just reminded me so much of the picture in Grand Prix International of the first flat bottom test car, though they were plain white. I'd post the picture, but it's at home, and I'm not!

Superb pictures for one and all, thanks.

#116 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,049 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 05 July 2012 - 18:53

JC's moves tended to be in the way of 'late lunges down the inside', rather than the finely-judged tapping of a rear corner to push someone deliberately into a spin, or pushing their bumper all the way down a straight......

Nice lot (or whatever the collective noun is) of Lotus's - pity the 43 couldn't be there, even as a static...........and the 49 still has the ugly replica nose!

Has anyone got more photos of the bikes, either track or paddock?

It looks to me as though, for the first time since 1994, there wasn't a single current F1 car running - the TV programme on Sunday (same pathetic format as last year) said the Mercedes was last year's car with a new nose grafted on, and the 2012 Williams that was in the publicity list doesn't appear anywhere.

Paul M

I thought they weren't allowed to run a current car as the FIA, in their wisdom, class a pootle up the hill as being "Testing". The best they can do is last year's car.

#117 Macca

Macca
  • Member

  • 3,333 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 05 July 2012 - 20:14

I believe last year there was either a Caterham/Lotus or a Renault/Lotus 2011 model; the testing rules, I believe, ban testing on F1 circuits except for a couple of official tests, limit the mileage per year, and require 'publicity' runs to be done on special (i.e. specially bad) tyres provided for the purpose.(though I stand to be corrected and no doubt will be!)

So I guess the teams no longer regard the FoS as important enough to use some of their annual mileage.......

Paul M

#118 condor

condor
  • Member

  • 11,258 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 05 July 2012 - 20:25

I thought they weren't allowed to run a current car as the FIA, in their wisdom, class a pootle up the hill as being "Testing". The best they can do is last year's car.



I thought those were the rules too

#119 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,010 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 05 July 2012 - 20:44

Re. the Lotus 63, the last I saw of the Donington car was in the back of the Hall & Hall transporter at a Mallory Wednesday towards the end of last season.


Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2010-06-23

Advertisement

#120 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,289 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 05 July 2012 - 21:16

I thought they weren't allowed to run a current car as the FIA, in their wisdom, class a pootle up the hill as being "Testing". The best they can do is last year's car.

I can sort of understand the wisdom though. Allow Goodwood, and how long before there's a sprint jolly in or near, say, Maranello that happens to be in the form of a loop of around three miles of differing corners?

#121 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 8,341 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 05 July 2012 - 21:44

Posted Image
1 - Maserati 151 stands 39-inches tall, about 3-inches lower than the 250GTO and an inch lower than guess what?

Posted Image
2 - The great George Wingard in his Teddy Tetzlaff GP Fiat

Posted Image
3 - The ex-Willment/Jack Sears Brands Hatch '64 Cobra 289 and the Chequered Flag Brands Hatch '66 Cobra 427 - plus a few friends...

Posted Image

4 - NMM Beaulieu chief engineer Doug Hill poised for a few more frights per mile in the BRM V16 Mark I

Posted Image
5 - Probably the finest pound for pound driver in the entire line-up waits patiently in the Connaught B-Type...

Posted Image
6 - The top paddock at Goodwood never ceases to amaze...when full it always provides an absolute feast for the eye, heart and brain.

Posted Image
7 - Tony Brooks enjoyed his runs in the Connaught and is elated at the success of his book - so thanks from him to everyone
who has bought it.

Posted Image
8 - The imposing V8 engine in the Maserati 151 - fuel injected, 4-cams and original to the Simone/Casner 1965 Le Mans car...

Posted Image
9 - Mike Bennett (left), Merv Therriault and '353' - the impeccably-presented Lotus Type 12.

Posted Image
10 - Factory Mercedes-Benz mechanic Enzo warming up the ex-Lang/Grupp 1952 Carrera PanAmericana second-placed W194 300SL Coupe - for a suitable driver

Posted Image
11 - The 300SL Coupe cockpit is incredibly cosy and confined - note the surprisingly long-throw gearchange. This individual was the burgundy-coloured car
crashed by Caracciola at the Bremgarten in his career-ending accident, and then rebuilt with new front frame to provide a second Coupe for Mexico. The team
took two Spyders and two Coupes there, for the crews to choose between. The team leaders raced the Coupes.

Posted Image
12 - View from the bridge, on the return run down the Goodwood hill. This is the reverse view of the top corner, out over the coastal plain...just luvverly.

Posted Image
12B - The former Donington Collection Brabham BT3 in the hands of its new owner - Rick Hall in attendance. The car's exquisite rebuild in 1970-71 needed little extra work.
The Climax V8 engine fired first time they tried...after some 40 years of silence. This one has always been a special favourite of mine...

Posted Image
14 - The Henry Ford Museum's fabulously original Le Mans-winning Ford Mark IV...

Posted Image
15 - Here drove Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt...

Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 06 July 2012 - 11:29.


#122 arttidesco

arttidesco
  • Member

  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 05 July 2012 - 22:23

Nice work Doug, I'm sure a few of us might have traded our right arm's for a ride in the 300 SL, I know I would, good job I'm left handed  ;)

#123 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,010 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 06 July 2012 - 05:51

Did anybody get a picture of the Mercedes C291 with the engine cover off?

Historically significant as the last in a long line of Untert├╝rkheim built racing engines?


Sadly it was a static display Roger, and I don't think the engine cover came off over the weekend.

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2012-07-05

#124 driverider

driverider
  • Member

  • 179 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:00

Barrie Baxter's Maserati 151 embodies the Casner crash engine, transaxle and brakes - and the rebuild is now near millimetre perfect in matching the long-lost original. That tail treatment with the divided top lip and wrap-down rear screen bothered us both as we studied it...perhaps the cause of a rear lift problem which contributed to the Casner disaster? This might well have to be addressed before the car is used in anger. But after five years' work - what a bazooka! How big a heart must the owner have? Gentlemen, I believe a round of applause would be in order...

DCN


Doug, thank you for your kind words, and all those of folks I managed to share conversations with at Goodwood.

There are other original elements including the unique drop box and some suspension parts and we also rebuilt a new, from the original 'bent', DeDion for obvious reasons!
As is reported correctly elsewhere the factory supported Mr Kaus with the resurrection of the car, and alongside providing original drawings for the new chassis they also provided the original body buck for Allegretti, who built the original body, to build another.

What Steve and I have done is look carefully at the evolution and development of 002 through to its final incarnation in 1965 and try to stay faithful to this thinking and action.
I hope to share our excitement and passion for this project with everyone and anyone interested. I can't wait to hear it run and wheel it out on a track but I have to say that the setting up and shaking down will be a long process but hopefully fun!

#125 driverider

driverider
  • Member

  • 179 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:06

Absolutely Doug. Barrie and I agreed to do a Goodwood Radio interview around the car, but with his bike commitments it never happened. I hope we see the Maser in anger at the Revival. One of my treats of the weekend was getting John Cleland and Steve Soper together round a table to talk about their rivalry and mutual respect. John was very vocal about the standard of driving in current BTCC. I hope TNFers enjoyed Goodwood Radio.
Chris


Chris, sorry we didn't get to the car together - hopefully next time
Was great to see Kenny Brack at the festival - a driver of immense talent as he demonstrated at last years Revival


#126 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,683 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:24

12B - The former Donington Collection Brabham BT3 in the hands of its new owner - Rick Hall in attendance. The car's exquisite rebuild in 1970-71 needed little extra work.
The Climax V8 engine fired first time they tried...after some 40 years of silence. This one has always been a special favourite of mine...

Hear, hear! Good to see it out in the fresh air once more. Thank you for the photos, Doug

#127 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,188 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 06 July 2012 - 11:24

Posted Image
10 - Factory Mercedes-Benz mechanic Enzo warming up the ex-Lang/Grupp 1952 Carrera PanAmericana second-placed W194 300SL Coupe - for a suitable driver

Posted Image
12 - View from the bridge, on the return run down the Goodwood hill. This is the reverse view of the top corner, out over the coastal plain...just luvverly.

Posted Image
15 - Here drove Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt...

Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN


I'm sure that the question on every TNF's mind around this time of year Doug, is just how much do you have to pay Lord March to do what you do at every FoS?


#128 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 8,341 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 06 July 2012 - 11:27

Hmm - shut up yer fool. Don't give 'im any ideas. :o

DCN


#129 RTH

RTH
  • Member

  • 5,733 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 06 July 2012 - 11:59

Nice work Doug, I'm sure a few of us might have traded our right arm's for a ride in the 300 SL, I know I would, good job I'm left handed ;)



We know it is said in jest, but we do have a racing driver who has lost her right eye this week and is still critical in a hospital bed in Addenbookes Cambridge.
Art, I know you don't mean it but you don't want to lose your right anything for any reason.
Sure we all wish Maria DeVillota well. A horrible tragic crash that should not have happened.

#130 bradbury west

bradbury west
  • Member

  • 4,581 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:36

Looks like PV in the red Ford, Doug. Is that the case?
Roger Lund

#131 arttidesco

arttidesco
  • Member

  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 06 July 2012 - 13:20

We know it is said in jest, but we do have a racing driver who has lost her right eye this week and is still critical in a hospital bed in Addenbookes Cambridge.
Art, I know you don't mean it but you don't want to lose your right anything for any reason.
Sure we all wish Maria DeVillota well. A horrible tragic crash that should not have happened.


As you say I am sure we all wish Maria well :up:

#132 Hse289

Hse289
  • Member

  • 598 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 06 July 2012 - 16:32

Great pictures everyone :up:

It was nice to meet up with three members and have a chat. Hi Barry, Roger and Doug.

Im enjoying the Tony Brooks autobiography very much. Doug Nye arranged for me to meet Tony Brooks and get my book signed. Well, that really made my day. Thank you Tony for being patient and kind.

Here is a small selection of pictures my son took.

Posted Image

Posted Image
BRM P261

Posted Image
Shelby Cobra 427

Posted Image
Stirling Moss in the Lotus - Climax 18

Posted Image
Ferrari 312/68

Posted Image
McLaren - Chevrolet M20

Posted Image
McLaren M1

#133 DOHC

DOHC
  • Member

  • 11,860 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 06 July 2012 - 17:13

My favourite car:

Posted Image


They don't come any better :up: :up: :up: :love: :love: :love:

#134 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 8,341 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 06 July 2012 - 18:07

Looks like PV in the red Ford, Doug. Is that the case?
Roger Lund


Yes. One declining old Le Mans veteran appreciating another. :smoking:

DCN

#135 Duc-Man

Duc-Man
  • Member

  • 1,075 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 07 July 2012 - 13:43

Does anybody know who drove/ownes the Shadow Mk.III that was there?
I saw a shot of the car and I'm not sure of the name on it. There is Fred Cziska's and Jackie Oliver's names down on the sills and a third name high on the side as well. Reads like S.Druck.

I also would be very happy if somebody could post some pictures of the car.

#136 MODE

MODE
  • Member

  • 305 posts
  • Joined: February 04

Posted 07 July 2012 - 19:00

Scott Drnek



#137 h4887

h4887
  • Member

  • 879 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 07 July 2012 - 19:41

Looks like PV in the red Ford, Doug. Is that the case?
Roger Lund


PV?


#138 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,368 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 07 July 2012 - 20:30

http://www.racingspo...-Vestey-GB.html

#139 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 8,341 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:44

Indeed - though not at all sure several of those alleged entries are correct.

DCN


Advertisement

#140 Duc-Man

Duc-Man
  • Member

  • 1,075 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 08 July 2012 - 17:28

Scott Drnek


Still leaves me with the question: was he just the driving the car or did Fred Cziska sell the car and he is the new owner?

#141 275 GTB-4

275 GTB-4
  • Member

  • 6,923 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:56

Posted Image
8 - The imposing V8 engine in the Maserati 151 - fuel injected, 4-cams and original to the Simone/Casner 1965 Le Mans car...

Posted Image
10 - Factory Mercedes-Benz mechanic Enzo warming up the ex-Lang/Grupp 1952 Carrera PanAmericana second-placed W194 300SL Coupe - for a suitable driver

Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN


I'm sure that the question on every TNF's mind around this time of year Doug, is just how much do you have to pay Lord March to do what you do at every FoS?


I was sure that the question on every TNF's mind around this time of year Doug, is why Enzo wasn't using his furled, factory-provided, throttle-blipper to warm the engine?

God that Maser engine is beautiful...thanks to all for the lovely high quality photographs from the FoS! :clap:

#142 Nev

Nev
  • Member

  • 246 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:25

I was unable to get to the FoS this year but really enjoyed the pics/comments in this thread - thanks for posting!


#143 arttidesco

arttidesco
  • Member

  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:51

Still leaves me with the question: was he just the driving the car or did Fred Cziska sell the car and he is the new owner?


According to the programme Fred Cziska still owns the car which was driven by Scott Dmek.


#144 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,049 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 09 July 2012 - 09:02

Posted Image
10 - Factory Mercedes-Benz mechanic Enzo warming up the ex-Lang/Grupp 1952 Carrera PanAmericana second-placed W194 300SL Coupe - for a suitable driver

Posted Image
11 - The 300SL Coupe cockpit is incredibly cosy and confined - note the surprisingly long-throw gearchange. This individual was the burgundy-coloured car
crashed by Caracciola at the Bremgarten in his career-ending accident, and then rebuilt with new front frame to provide a second Coupe for Mexico. The team
took two Spyders and two Coupes there, for the crews to choose between. The team leaders raced the Coupes.

Posted Image
12 - View from the bridge, on the return run down the Goodwood hill. This is the reverse view of the top corner, out over the coastal plain...just luvverly.


.

Photos Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

There were two 300SL or W194s there. One was described on the plaque as a 300SL and had small gullwing doors that stopped at, shall we say, the wing line or bottom of the window while the other [the one pictured here] was described as a W194 and had doors cutting into the cills rather like the later production car.
I understood that the car that first appeared in the 1952 Mille Miglia and made its final race appearance in the Carrera Panamericana was designated the model W194 by Mercedes internally but 300SL for public consumption. And these two designations applied to all the 1952 cars. Then the production 300SL was numbered the W198.

Can anyone clarify the story as to when the W194's doors were enlarged and why?

#145 Odseybod

Odseybod
  • Member

  • 1,127 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 09 July 2012 - 09:29

There were two 300SL or W194s there. One was described on the plaque as a 300SL and had small gullwing doors that stopped at, shall we say, the wing line or bottom of the window while the other [the one pictured here] was described as a W194 and had doors cutting into the cills rather like the later production car.
I understood that the car that first appeared in the 1952 Mille Miglia and made its final race appearance in the Carrera Panamericana was designated the model W194 by Mercedes internally but 300SL for public consumption. And these two designations applied to all the 1952 cars. Then the production 300SL was numbered the W198.

Can anyone clarify the story as to when the W194's doors were enlarged and why?


Can't answer the question but can illustrate the two different versions:

Posted Image

Posted Image


Over to the experts.

#146 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,368 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 09 July 2012 - 09:51

As I understand it (based on various sources) the cars all had the small doors when they first appeared at the 1952 Mille Miglia. MB knew, however, that in this form they didn't comply with the Le Mans regulations, so at their next race at Bremgarten they took three cars with small doors and one with the full 'gull wing' doors which met the Le Mans regs. At Le Mans they all obviously had the larger doors. Then for the support race at the German GP in August they cut the tops off three of the cars, turning them into roadsters, and also built a brand new roadster from scratch. For the Carrera Panamerica they entered a Le Mans car with gull wing doors, another car with small doors (apparently the car Caracciola crashed at Bremgarten, rebuilt) and a roadster. (Edit: as explained by Doug in post 124 above.)

Edited by Tim Murray, 09 July 2012 - 11:56.


#147 David Beard

David Beard
  • Member

  • 4,886 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:25

Did I hear the commentator correctly...DCN driving this Cobra?

Posted Image

#148 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,847 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:07

Yes, well, one of the Cobras. We tried to catch his eye as he was waiting in the Cathedral Paddock before going out but I think he was in 'racing' mode and appeared somewhat preoccupied.

#149 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,049 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 09 July 2012 - 16:11

As I understand it (based on various sources) the cars all had the small doors when they first appeared at the 1952 Mille Miglia. MB knew, however, that in this form they didn't comply with the Le Mans regulations, so at their next race at Bremgarten they took three cars with small doors and one with the full 'gull wing' doors which met the Le Mans regs. At Le Mans they all obviously had the larger doors. Then for the support race at the German GP in August they cut the tops off three of the cars, turning them into roadsters, and also built a brand new roadster from scratch. For the Carrera Panamerica they entered a Le Mans car with gull wing doors, another car with small doors (apparently the car Caracciola crashed at Bremgarten, rebuilt) and a roadster. (Edit: as explained by Doug in post 124 above.)

Thanks, Tim. I thought it was something like that. What puzzled me was that although the programme describes both cars as "W194", the boards in the paddock stalls - one said "W194" while the other said "300SL". And knowing the well-deserved Mercedes reputation for thoroughness, I put two and two together and didn't get four.

#150 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,368 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 09 July 2012 - 17:32

... the boards in the paddock stalls - one said "W194" while the other said "300SL".

That puzzled me too. but I have noticed in the past that those paddock boards are sometimes inaccurate.