59 replies to this topic

[pallas1970]

I am after a new helmet that looks of the period (mid 1960s open wheeler). Most of what I have seen look too modern, although we have to wear a closed face so I guess it will always look a bit wrong anyway. It always seems a shame seeing a car looking of the period with a new helmet/suit driving it. Any advice welcome, thanks, James

[Quixotic]

I think Bell do a modern version of their first full face helmets. If you want an open face helmet, I'm sorry I don't know.

[alansart]

A few people still use open faced helmets in the UK.

Last year at Mallory Park.


Cooper, Mallory Park Testing by Alansart, on Flickr


Cooper, Mallory Park Testing by Alansart, on Flickr

[Ralf Pickel]

I also asked that question some time ago here.

Unfortunately, since the demise of the old Arai type, there are only rather modern looking ones on the market.
OMP does a rather nice and classic looking one (similar to the Arai) - but this does neither have Snell nor FIA homologation, only BS IIRC.

Which type of car / racing you want to do ? Normally you should be allowed to use a certified open face helmet.

Ralf

Edit Here is a photo of my helmet mentioned in the other thread.
It looks reasonably ok together with goggles etc.
Historica Racewear also do Nomex scarves etc. - albeit without FIA homologation.

Edited by Ralf Pickel, 01 November 2011 - 09:38.

[Quixotic]

I saw the vintage looking bell on a thread here somewhere

[Ralf Pickel]

This is it.
Should be available from all usual racewear vendors.

[Quixotic]

This is it.
Should be available from all usual racewear vendors.

Thats the one.

Edited by Quixotic, 01 November 2011 - 10:16.

[mac miller]

I'm using a new Impact helmet. It looks great, is very comfortable and has all of the current certifications.

mac miller in INDY

http://macmillersgar...hotoid=59475288

http://macmillersgar...hotoid=60331001

[Paul Parker]

This is it.
Should be available from all usual racewear vendors.

I don't know if its my pile of electronic Dell junk that masquerades as a desktop but I cannot open the picture of the helmet, even when I turn off the pop-up blocker.

[Ralf Pickel]

The Historica page is rather slow in my computer, too - so nofault on your equipment, Paul !
Try this -should be better.

[Paul Parker]

The Historica page is rather slow in my computer, too - so nofault on your equipment, Paul !
Try this -should be better.

I remember selling the originals in Gordon Spice's City Speed Shop in Bishopsgate London for £25 in 1971.

The shop was run by John Hansford who later became famous for his Luke racing harnesses, oh happy days.

[f1steveuk]

John moved the Luke Harness business to Eastbourne I think.

I always got my first helmets from Rene Bennetts. My first Bell was £25 and my Griffin was £39!!!

[Wilyman]

I picked up one of the early Bell Star helmets for $10 at a local autojumble. Circa 1970 with Bob Heath plastic visor and ACU label.
It weighed a ton and the vision was like looking through a letterbox!
I'm surprised there weren't any casualties with broken necks.

[SJ Lambert]

This "classic looking" open faced OMP helmet

http://www.gprdirect...omp-ghibli.html

does comply with some (well just about all) of the Aussie requirements despite a full face helmet being highly recomended for the driver's of open cars. It adheres to level A (til 31 Dec 2013) and level B (and therefore the level C Standard) - which are the three standards that require a helmet at all according to Schedule D "THe Requirements for cars and Drivers" in the CAMS Manual of Motor Sport........

He says, as he tucks his full face Bell Helmet back into the wardrobe..............

The British Standard BS 6658-85 Type A/FR is this helmet's spec and the CAMS "A" Standard that'll no longer be valid after New Year's Eve 2013.

[T54]

My preference because I have seen the Snell tests.

And...

Edited by T54, 02 November 2011 - 02:44.

[stuartbrs]

Whilst open faced helmets look the part I always cringe when I see them being worn... even in Kart racing the bits and pieces that fly up and smash you in the face are horrendous in a full face helmet. In the car I always prefer a full face helmet as well. Just wondering what bits and pieces could break loose and crash into your face in an accident is enough to give me the heebies.

[eldougo]

Do not even think of an open face helmut in a open wheeler it is way to dangerous. Just look at Felipe Massa a few years ago, and that is F1. i seen bolts take out a guy teeth and chin. a exhurst pipe that hit a guy in the face in Karts .If you think it will not happen just hang around a while it will.
Thats is the way humans progress by not going backwards.

[stuartbrs]

Do not even think of an open face helmut in a open wheeler it is way to dangerous. Just look at Felipe Massa a few years ago, and that is F1. i seen bolts take out a guy teeth and chin. a exhurst pipe that hit a guy in the face in Karts .If you think it will not happen just hang around a while it will.
Thats is the way humans progress by not going backwards.

Yep, even the rubber flicking off the tyres in kart racing has enough momentum to do decent damage!

[eldougo]

Ands then there is Heavy Rain it hurt far more than you think ,Stones if some one drops a wheel of the edge,and of course FIRE .

BUT IF YOU WANT LOOK PERIOD YOU COULD EXPECT TO PAY THE CONSEQUENCES OF DRIVER BEFORE YOU .

Edited by eldougo, 02 November 2011 - 08:48.

[Paul Rochdale]

Oh dear. I wondered how long it would be before the "shock/horror" responses to the use of open face helmets appeared here. It's quite depressing, isn't it. We're all grown ups and we can all make our own choices in life. I've been a keen motorcyclist for over 45yrs and have almost always worn an open face. As well as that I have been involved in the odd isolated crash and I'm still here, relatively unscathed. I've tried full face a few times but prefer the fresh air (and flies) in my chops. I currently wear a Nolan N41 but have worn Arai and Sparco in the past. I'm currently building a three-wheeler and will almost certainly wear, as a few others do, one of my open face helmets as Brookland screens don't do a lot for the complexion.

http://www.merlinmot...oduct_info.html

Marco Simoncelli wore (presumably) the best helmet money could buy but when your time is up, it's up. Massi wore a multi-thousand pound full face too.

I've had other discussions about my intention of using oldish Michelin X tyres on my three-wheeler. Again the "shock/horror" response was expected and it's predicted that the car will crash in a ball of flame and take half of the local population with me. Of course that won't happen but some people do actually believe that.

My 65th birthday tomorrow. Here's to a few more safe years yet!

[GD66]

I picked up one of the early Bell Star helmets for $10 at a local autojumble. Circa 1970 with Bob Heath plastic visor and ACU label.
It weighed a ton and the vision was like looking through a letterbox!
I'm surprised there weren't any casualties with broken necks.

I'm sure there were, especially in bike racing. If you find an old one, use it for pictures in the pits buddy... but wear the newest helmet you can afford for racing. And there's no need to fork out 500 quid for a race helmet, either...

[willga]

Whilst open faced helmets look the part I always cringe when I see them being worn... even in Kart racing the bits and pieces that fly up and smash you in the face are horrendous in a full face helmet. In the car I always prefer a full face helmet as well. Just wondering what bits and pieces could break loose and crash into your face in an accident is enough to give me the heebies.

That said, there are probably a significant number of accidents caused by the poor vision out of a full-face, especially when wearing a HANS...

I guess if I was totally safety conscious, I wouldn't be racing in a 50 year old spaceframe.
As a german friend of mine said - "But if you have a crash will you not be, can you say, jammed in the car... like strawberry jam?"

[Dutchy]

Ands then there is Heavy Rain it hurt far more than you think ,Stones if some one drops a wheel of the edge,and of course FIRE .

BUT IF YOU WANT LOOK PERIOD YOU COULD EXPECT TO PAY THE CONSEQUENCES OF DRIVER BEFORE YOU .

Rain wouldn't be a problem if you could fit a proper visor. All the modern helmets have their own method of fixing the peak instead of the old universal three studs.

In use an Impact as it was the only helmet that would fit my head but I loathe the thing. It looks riduculous and a scrutineer once came to visit me in the paddock as he needed to be convinced that it was actually fitted on my head properly.

[Paul Parker]

John moved the Luke Harness business to Eastbourne I think.

I always got my first helmets from Rene Bennetts. My first Bell was £25 and my Griffin was £39!!!

Yes it was Eastbourne I believe and John is now retired and if anybody on here ever contacts him please send my best wishes..

Gordon Spice also stocked a generic but inferior copy of the Bell Star known as Trackstar in 1971, but I cannot recall how much this retailed for in period.

[RTH]

My first Bell Star in 1971 was £27 19s 6d from Les leston's speed shop in the Finchley Road. And I still have it .

[Sisyphus]

This "classic looking" open faced OMP helmet

http://www.gprdirect...omp-ghibli.html

This one's available with HANS posts fitted according to the website. An interesting juxtaposition...

[stuartbrs]

Oh dear. I wondered how long it would be before the "shock/horror" responses to the use of open face helmets appeared here. It's quite depressing, isn't it. We're all grown ups and we can all make our own choices in life. I've been a keen motorcyclist for over 45yrs and have almost always worn an open face. As well as that I have been involved in the odd isolated crash and I'm still here, relatively unscathed. I've tried full face a few times but prefer the fresh air (and flies) in my chops. I currently wear a Nolan N41 but have worn Arai and Sparco in the past. I'm currently building a three-wheeler and will almost certainly wear, as a few others do, one of my open face helmets as Brookland screens don't do a lot for the complexion.

http://www.merlinmot...oduct_info.html

Marco Simoncelli wore (presumably) the best helmet money could buy but when your time is up, it's up. Massi wore a multi-thousand pound full face too.

I've had other discussions about my intention of using oldish Michelin X tyres on my three-wheeler. Again the "shock/horror" response was expected and it's predicted that the car will crash in a ball of flame and take half of the local population with me. Of course that won't happen but some people do actually believe that.

My 65th birthday tomorrow. Here's to a few more safe years yet!

Hi Paul, I think you misunderstood me. I wasnt having a go at your personal desire to wear an open face helmet. I was merely stating my own opinion of it thats all. My feet go numb, for instance, when I watch those stunt dirt bike riders jump 20 metres in the air.. I understand their desire to do it, its just something I would never want to do myself. I didnt wear a neck brace when I raced Karts and many others did, I didnt like the feel of it for instance.

A local boy was killed a few years back at one of the dirt bike trails close to my house, he was wearing one of those dirt bike helmets with the clip on plastic front. He landed heavily and his face smashed into the centre of the handle bars pushing his jaw bone through his throat... Still, thousands of dirt bike riders wear those things everyday without harm, and I`m sure theyve saved quite a few heads over the years. There are always incidents where all the safetyy gear in the world wont be enough like the Marco Simoncelli accident proved.

[eldougo]

There is people who understand and people that do not .

Like the old advertisement for Bell said .
If you have a $2 head and helmut,if you value it more wear a Bell!

[Paul Rochdale]

More old wives tales. These helmets have to comform to certain stringent safety tests to get approval. The expense comes with the costly paintjob. If you think your head is worth more than an approved £100 helmet, you get a £300 Bell. Right? But aren't you a skinflint? Why didn't you buy the £400 AGV, or the £500 Shoei, and what about the £800 Arai. C'mon now, what is life worth? Current F1 type helmets must cost over £1000 a throw, the cost of a cheap holiday. While you are at it, throw in the best leathers money can buy plus a neck brace, and then STILL get hit by a bus.

See what I'm getting at now?

[mfd]

More old wives tales. These helmets have to comform to certain stringent safety tests to get approval. The expense comes with the costly paintjob. If you think your head is worth more than an approved £100 helmet, you get a £300 Bell. Right? But aren't you a skinflint? Why didn't you buy the £400 AGV, or the £500 Shoei, and what about the £800 Arai. C'mon now, what is life worth? Current F1 type helmets must cost over £1000 a throw, the cost of a cheap holiday. While you are at it, throw in the best leathers money can buy plus a neck brace, and then STILL get hit by a bus.

See what I'm getting at now?

Well for a start Paul, you're a bit behind with your prices. Current Arai carbon fibre helmet (mandatory for F1 F2 GP2 F3 LMS ALMS GT1 & GT3) is £3390 including VAT. Perhaps when you consider the cost of a set of the four black round things at each corner & compare that to the cost of a helmet that (hopefully) lasts much longer - it's easy to confuse the difference between price and value

Regarding standards, there is a baseline that helmets have to meet to conform, but some exceed, far exceed it where others may scrape through.

As for painting, much depends on your perception. With today's fashionable art style designs, it's not uncommon to spend a week or more achieving the results. I guess it depends what you'd expect to earn as a weekly salary! It doesn't happen easily, nor overnight.

The Bell slogan (btw) was If you have a $10 head get a $10 helmet

[RTH]

DTs range here

http://www.demon-twe...es/Helmets/1565



As Mike says you can easily spend over £3000 and I think I saw a catalogue earlier in the year with special top end helmets at nearly double that as well

[Paul Rochdale]

Well for a start Paul, you're a bit behind with your prices. Current Arai carbon fibre helmet (mandatory for F1 F2 GP2 F3 LMS ALMS GT1 & GT3) is £3390 including VAT. Perhaps when you consider the cost of a set of the four black round things at each corner & compare that to the cost of a helmet that (hopefully) lasts much longer - it's easy to confuse the difference between price and value

Regarding standards, there is a baseline that helmets have to meet to conform, but some exceed, far exceed it where others may scrape through.

As for painting, much depends on your perception. With today's fashionable art style designs, it's not uncommon to spend a week or more achieving the results. I guess it depends what you'd expect to earn as a weekly salary! It doesn't happen easily, nor overnight.

The Bell slogan (btw) was If you have a $10 head get a $10 helmet

Mike

I guess I am a bit behind the times but I just used those loose figures to illustrate my point of view. In a former life I regularly attended Road Traffic Crashes and in each and every motorcycle rider fatality, it wasn't a head injury which killed any of them but extreme trauma elsewhere on their bodies. So my argument is that there comes a point when 'enough is enough' and I'm happy with my current Nolan N41, the most comfortable open face I've ever had, and the same model used by the French motorcycle Police riders.

[RTH]

These are now on sale for road use

http://www.pistonhea...p?storyId=24614

A motorcycle jacket air bag, it is another £1300 but I can imagine it being a life saver, they have been used on the IOM TT in competition before.

[willga]

Mike

in each and every motorcycle rider fatality, it wasn't a head injury which killed any of them but extreme trauma elsewhere on their bodies.

Don't know about that... the first and only LeFort IV # I've seen was in a motorcyclist who'd come off a stolen Ducati - his Arai was like a crushed paper cup.

[T54]

My first Bell Star in 1971 was £27 19s 6d from Les leston's speed shop in the Finchley Road. And I still have it .

Richard,
I still have my old Cromwell from the early 1960's, but like for your Bell Star of which resins, liner and foam have by now completely exceeded their useful life, a mild encounter with the wall with it would almost certainly show its current worthiness, which would be near zero...
Helmets should be renewed every 5 years, even if they have very little use, and there is a good reason for that, material aging.

For the ones who REALLY care about their health and have utmost respect for the most important part of their racing car, here is the current list of FIA certified helmets following the 2010 standard:

CLICK HERE.

I would begin by those, because there is a HUGE difference between helmets "getting by" and some that exceed the requirements by a wide margin. 3000 Euros? peanuts compared to the first few minutes of your head trauma treatment.

Also for the ones wearing this particular equipment, i would seriously reconsider, CLICK HERE.

Indeed, a helmet or a fire retardant racing suit can only protect you so much, but regardless of the "vintage" aspect some of you are seeking, should you not be concerned FIRST by their level of protection?

[RTH]

Richard,
I still have my old Cromwell from the early 1960's, but like for your Bell Star of which resins, liner and foam have by now completely exceeded their useful life, a mild encounter with the wall with it would almost certainly show its current worthiness, which would be near zero...
Helmets should be renewed every 5 years, even if they have very little use, and there is a good reason for that, material aging.

For the ones who REALLY care about their health and have utmost respect for the most important part of their racing car, here is the current list of FIA certified helmets following the 2010 standard:

CLICK HERE.

I would begin by those, because there is a HUGE difference between helmets "getting by" and some that exceed the requirements by a wide margin. 3000 Euros? peanuts compared to the first few minutes of your head trauma treatment.

Also for the ones wearing this particular equipment, i would seriously reconsider, CLICK HERE.

Indeed, a helmet or a fire retardant racing suit can only protect you so much, but regardless of the "vintage" aspect some of you are seeking, should you not be concerned FIRST by their level of protection?

Going racing is a vastly more expensive business now than it was when I started 40 years ago.

The suits and helmets are much better the hands device (which I think complete is near £1000 on its own) rollover protection is improved and above all there is vastly more run off area to reduce the chance of hitting the scenery in the first place.

In 1972 I ran just a bit wide on the exit of paddock hill bend at Lydden Hill as there was no armco at all , the car ran up the earth bank turned over on to its roof and then barrel rolled over the finish line through the chequered flag ( I had been 6th at the time) and I was left upside down hanging from the belts on the line. The Mini was comprehensively destroyed.

[eldougo]

Mr Roach .....See what I'm getting at now?



It is all about open face V fullface .or is it closed mind V open mind.

[T54]

The suits and helmets are much better the hands device (which I think complete is near £1000 on its own)

Uh... let's try "HANS" (Head and Neck Support).

The price of HANS has tumbled quite a bit since the French Stand 21 licencee has re-engineered the device to the point that "clubman" HANS devices can be purchased for well under half that price now.
And indeed, SOME of the suits are better than they used to be, but certainly not all. Again, before you buy the latest "lighter, shiny, breathable" suit, do this simple test on the proposed item:
-Put your hand face up inside the suit's sleeve.
-Hold your lips tight against the material using your hand as backing.
-Blow through as hard as you can.

You will find that most of the time, the "breathable" fabric does not, at all. Many companies advertize falsely that their suits are "breathable". Don't believe it until you TEST it.

If it does not and at our age, better get one that does since at last, some actually do and offer either the same or greater fire protection that the ones that do not.
Heat stress driving a racing car is a fact of life. People our age DIE of heart attacks due to heat stress while racing their cars. It is becoming more of a safety issue that did not exist as much when single-layer racing suits offered little fire protection but less resistance to air circulation.

Inform yourself!
As far as open-face versus face coverage, it is of course a question of personal taste but it is quite obvious that an open-face lid present a riskier proposition. Duh.

[Quixotic]

I will admit that I love the look of the 60s and 70s style open face helmets, but I would not consider wearing anything else but a current spec full face helmet.

[Tom Smith]

http://www.bellsport...reet/custom-500
Throwbacks and retro lids are nice, but nothing beats an original. Back in 1954 Bell founder Roy Richter formed his first helmet out of fiberglass and named it the “500.” That moment was ground zero for the modern motorsport helmet and it gave rise to an entire industry. Bell’s new Custom 500 pays homage to Richter’s original design and adds modern protective technology to bring the design up-to-date while still keeping the original’s aesthetic. By combining a custom fiberglass layup with a specially designed EPS foam layer, Bell engineers were able to craft a helmet that is at once light weight, narrow in profile, and DOT-compliant. Adding custom paint-inspired graphics, chrome trim work (on some graphics) and a quilted liner, the new Custom 500 custom looks as good as it performs.
SPECIFICATIONS
WEIGHT: 1200 G
CERTIFICATIONS: DOT

Edited by Tom Smith, 05 November 2011 - 04:18.

[mfd]

CERTIFICATIONS: DOT

Inapplicable in this case as this doesn't meet (any) Motor Sport standard

[Steve O'Brien]

Have a look at these http://davida.co.uk/....php?id=helmets

[RTH]

HANS device

http://www.demon-twe...evice/1584/4855

[mfd]

Have a look at these http://davida.co.uk/....php?id=helmets

Inapplicable in this case as this doesn't meet (any) Motor Sport standard

[garyfrogeye]

I Sprint an open top car and I'm not allowed an open faced helmet, but with the soft top up I am!

[T54]

HANS device

Richard,
One may spend a LOT less for a comparable product:
HDI in Georgia has their Sports Series at $495.00. That's under 300 British Pounds... SFI and FIA certified.

The same but made in France (and lighter...) is available from Stand 21 UK at about the same price but with FIA certification only.

Both are just fine and a LOT less expensive...

[SJ Lambert]

I reckon that Bell Star Classic full face helmet looks pretty good so far as the period look is concerned - many/all of those single seater from the mid sixties would also have to have gotten used to newly fitted harnesses being rigged in toward the end of the decade too.

We've got a Luke harness, that is presented in black webbing and no Brand Signage so looks the part as much as it's able,in our Sports Racer and I'm currently thinking about roll bar set up and harness rigging for our open wheeler. At the moment there's another HANS compatible Luke Single Seater harness that might get the nod http://www.corbeau-s...ml?options=cart

I presume the thinner webbing across the shoulders is to capture the HANS yolk more positively.......??

[T54]

SJ,
I have heard and read complaints about the shoulder belts "falling off" the HANS devices. Not a good thing! To be sure, the belts must be properly fitted for the device to work properly, and the manufacturer's recommendations are as such: please CLICK HERE and please look at the second drawing, the mounting recommendations seen from the top.
If fitted properly, a 3" shoulder belt set does not slip off the HANS mounts.

Please also make sure that the date of your harness is not over 5 years on its sewn-on tag, because you might be turned down at time of tech inspection by racing organizations following FIA rules...

Also there are generally two types of webbing for racing harnesses, nylon and polyester. As much as possible try avoiding the nylon, that stretches too much in case of impact. The road cars have a polyester compound webbing that is in fact superior to that of many inexpensive racing harnesses made of Nylon webbing. The Nylon is a very slippery material and often allows the shoulder belts adjusters to "slip" and often you have to readjust yourself while racing, not a good proposition... make sure that the adjusters also have a small steel wire spring that helps a lot reducing the slack after adjustment.
An excellent brand is Willans.

And last, make sure that the HANS attachment on the helmet are conform to the current FIA standard. Any HANS retailer can help you figure that one out.
Nothing is easy nowadays with all those lawyers!

[SJ Lambert]

This is about as period as I'm going to get into the forseeable future!!





T54. Thanks for that HANS document, I hadn't seen that particular one before. It's more illuminative than my Quick Start Guide!!! - The lawyer in me is more interested in keeping his bonce connected to the rest of me than anything else!!!!

[T54]

SJ,
You owe this information to the thankless work of Frenchman Yves Morizot and his team of engineers at Stand 21 who developed and refined the original HANS concept and hardware invented and originally manufactured by Dr. Hubbard and racer Jim Downing, helping convincing the FIA to adopt the concept.
Thanks to a narrow collaboration with structural and reconstruction engineer John Melvin, with the competent medical advice of Dr. Steven Olvey and other prominent neurosurgeons, the device has come from a very cumbersome annoyance a few years back to an easy to wear lightweight device.
Make sure that the angle and width fits your seating position. The device is now available in many angles and many widths. A HANS can only do its job if properly fitted.