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Classic helmet options?


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#51 SJ Lambert

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 13:16

The Document of Messrs Morizot and others does not nominate a maximum belt separation measured from the inner edges of the two belts at the anchor point behind the shoulders (the hansdevice.com document I have says keep that separation at 3" or less).

I suspect that even at the steeper angle of an included 40 degrees that the transverse tube in the roll hoop that would form the harness wrap anchor point will be so close to the shoulders/helmet and HANS device so as to make that spread in excess of 3 inches - it would, however, still be able to be fabricated in a manner so as to satisfy the Morizot blue print........ so I'm liking the Morizot material!!!

I think the American material I have contemplates the anchor points being as far back as 8"/200mm from the back of the yolk on the HANS device. In such an application one could easily achieve the recomended inner edge of belt figure whilst conforming to the Morizot included angle instruction. As a practical keep your belts as short as possible yardstick I think the Morizot layout is more than acceptable.

I'll get in the car over the Christmas break and ensure that we can rig it up correctly.

I can feel some cutting of the rear section of the nose (above the shoulder padding) coming on!!!!

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#52 SJ Lambert

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 13:43

Just found this HANS Usage guide on the FIA website as well - can understand the lingo better!!!


http://argent.fia.co...e_HANS_2007.pdf

#53 T54

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 21:51

Perfect! :)

#54 maserati300

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 16:11

I had a head injury just over 3 years ago (rear suspension failure) & ended up in a tyre wall. If I had been wearing an open face helmet, I doubt I would be writing this. I agree, they may look better & be ok for demos etc. but please don't use one. I'm still waiting for the recovery process to finish..... We all think "it won't happen to me". There is a reason why we all have to have all this safety stuff. If the old stuff was ok, we'd still be wearing leather flying helmets.

#55 RTH

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 16:40

So true Good quality, helmet ,hans , fireproof covering all over, strong wide 6 point belts and a good quaity seat/ head restaint/support and above all well padded side and rollover steel protection cage in place I would say now is a minimum requirement in doing it at all.

How and why people race pre war cars with no belts and no rollover protection is beyond my understanding.

#56 T54

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:04

Richard,
While I am a ferocious defender and (financially uninterested) promoter of the most evolved personal protection technology, I also recognize the right of anyone to take their own chances by driving dangerous machinery at dangerous speed without much or any protection, as long as their widows or heirs do not come back with merit-less but costly legal suits against everybody and their cousin after the aforementioned have comprehensively plastered themselves and either got maimed or killed. I would drive a 35C with a white cotton head wear, but I would not push it!
However i would feel confident pushing an RSR as hard as can muster, with the proper protection.

I can only ENCOURAGE everyone practicing our hobby to try their best to study what's out there to protect themselves against their own excesses or overconfidence in their ability, and/or mechanical failure, and encourage everyone to avoid believing the lines of safety equipment salesmen, and to check what's out there very carefully with the proper organizations such as Snell, FIA, SFI...

In the case of their own personal safety and what is best for them on a scientific level, racers education is generally and very unfortunately between poor and pathetic.

Edited by T54, 09 November 2011 - 04:06.


#57 pallas1970

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:36

Richard,
While I am a ferocious defender and (financially uninterested) promoter of the most evolved personal protection technology, I also recognize the right of anyone to take their own chances by driving dangerous machinery at dangerous speed without much or any protection, as long as their widows or heirs do not come back with merit-less but costly legal suits against everybody and their cousin after the aforementioned have comprehensively plastered themselves and either got maimed or killed. I would drive a 35C with a white cotton head wear, but I would not push it!
However i would feel confident pushing an RSR as hard as can muster, with the proper protection.

I can only ENCOURAGE everyone practicing our hobby to try their best to study what's out there to protect themselves against their own excesses or overconfidence in their ability, and/or mechanical failure, and encourage everyone to avoid believing the lines of safety equipment salesmen, and to check what's out there very carefully with the proper organizations such as Snell, FIA, SFI...

In the case of their own personal safety and what is best for them on a scientific level, racers education is generally and very unfortunately between poor and pathetic.


Thanks all for your advice, I am skipping the period bit and going for what makes sense, hopefully i have progressed from pathetic and poor to 'sensible' (if anything to do with racing old cars can be deemed sensible!), james

#58 eldougo

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 08:36

Given that we talked about the Griffin GP Helmet in this and other threads i found out the reason for the BIG face opening.

It says...... The design of the helmet is such that ,if needed artificial respiration can be applied without it removal. :rolleyes:


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#59 doc knutsen

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 10:48

Given that we talked about the Griffin GP Helmet in this and other threads i found out the reason for the BIG face opening.

It says...... The design of the helmet is such that ,if needed artificial respiration can be applied without it removal. :rolleyes:


Yes, that was what was said at the time. However, it is not too relevant, given the priorities in ABCDE resuscitation. In any high-energy accident, to apply of a neck support is a top priority, along with clearing the airways. This includes removing any foreign object from the mouth and throat before assisting ventilation, all of which is much more likely to be successful, with a minimum of time loss, if the helmet strap is cut and the helmet removed.
Incidentally, the case of foreign objects blocking the airways is an excellent argument against the use of open-face helmets - a broken jaw, and loose teeth, are frequent causes of potentially fatal airway obstruction.

BTW, the bottle shown in the illustration is nothing to do with artifical respiration, it is a bottle of compressed air connected to a nipple on the helmet. The intention is to give the wearer of the helmet a supply of air to breathe directly into the helmet, in case of fire.
It was meant to be used along with the Nomex helmet bib, which was popular for a time. Using oxygen, which was also suggested once ot twice, was obviously not too brilliant an idea, given the presence of fire.

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#60 SJ Lambert

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:46

SJ,
I have heard and read complaints about the shoulder belts "falling off" the HANS devices. Not a good thing! To be sure, the belts must be properly fitted for the device to work properly, and the manufacturer's recommendations are as such: please CLICK HERE and please look at the second drawing, the mounting recommendations seen from the top.
If fitted properly, a 3" shoulder belt set does not slip off the HANS mounts. :)

Please also make sure that the date of your harness is not over 5 years on its sewn-on tag, because you might be turned down at time of tech inspection by racing organizations following FIA rules...

Also there are generally two types of webbing for racing harnesses, nylon and polyester. As much as possible try avoiding the nylon, that stretches too much in case of impact. The road cars have a polyester compound webbing that is in fact superior to that of many inexpensive racing harnesses made of Nylon webbing. The Nylon is a very slippery material and often allows the shoulder belts adjusters to "slip" and often you have to readjust yourself while racing, not a good proposition... make sure that the adjusters also have a small steel wire spring that helps a lot reducing the slack after adjustment.
An excellent brand is Willans.

And last, make sure that the HANS attachment on the helmet are conform to the current FIA standard. Any HANS retailer can help you figure that one out.
Nothing is easy nowadays with all those lawyers! :)


G'day T54 - Following up with Willans harnesses and Morizot's fitting recommendations (I printed off his guide from your link - the link longer works for me). Morizot has a transverse tube OD 1 & 1/2" to wrap the shoulder harness around when rigging it into the car. We have redsigned a roll hoop with a bar to wrap the harness around.

Willans tell me that that won't supply a harness as a HANS only harness for a wrap fitting, that such a harness can be "Eyes" only (8mm I think they said). Seemingly because of FIA "rules".

The wrap instillation still looks pretty good to me............. shall see if Willans will reconsider..............

Looks like one of the Schroth models may do it the way I want...........

Edited by SJ Lambert, 04 May 2012 - 12:36.