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Officially IndyCar for 2012


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#1 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:09

As pointed out by Red Stick it's a complete change for the new year, so let's have a new thread.


1st topic, Dan's replacement at Andretti.

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#2 Rob

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:11

As pointed out by Red Stick it's a complete change for the new year, so let's have a new thread.


1st topic, Dan's replacement at Andretti.


As I said before, fingers crossed for Justin Wilson. Although obviously I wish this situation hadn't arisen.

#3 PayasYouRace

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:11

Justin Wilson! Well he'd be my choice.

Should updates on Pippa Mann be put in this thread too?

#4 Fulcrum

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:12

1st topic, Dan's replacement at Andretti.


Wilson, Briscoe or Newgarden.

#5 red stick

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:12

Curt Cavin on the Andretti situation and others.

http://blogs.indysta...e-and-andretti/

#6 red stick

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:16

Gordon Kirby on Bruce Ashmore's critique of the new Dallara. I go back and forth about how much of this is penetrating analysis and how much is sour grapes.

http://www.gordonkir...t_is_no310.html

#7 red stick

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:18

Marshall Pruett on Bryan Herta's plans.

http://auto-racing.s...ith-2012-plans/

And Larry Curry out at D&B.

http://auto-racing.s...einbold-racing/

Edited by red stick, 01 November 2011 - 14:20.


#8 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:21

Gordon Kirby on Bruce Ashmore's critique of the new Dallara. I go back and forth about how much of this is penetrating analysis and how much is sour grapes.

http://www.gordonkir...t_is_no310.html


There's some revisionist history on Kirby's part (CART ovals weren't entertaining since about 1995, so that's 6 years of dullness) and Ashmore had the foundation for some good arguments but then turned it into a complaint about the bid process.

#9 red stick

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:23

As I said before, fingers crossed for Justin Wilson. Although obviously I wish this situation hadn't arisen.


Cavin suggests if Briscoe is available he'd get the nod because he's better on ovals and more likely to put GoDaddy in the winner's circle at Indy. And if they go with Wilson who's the oval guy at Andretti? Marco?


#10 teejay

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:27

I hope indycar can come out the end of 2011 into a strong and positive 2012.

#11 PayasYouRace

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:27

Gordon Kirby on Bruce Ashmore's critique of the new Dallara. I go back and forth about how much of this is penetrating analysis and how much is sour grapes.

http://www.gordonkir...t_is_no310.html


That's a very interesting read. To me it reads more like sour grapes but it's hard to say. A lot of what he says makes sense but then I also sense a lot of that wishful thinking that we get here every time the ideas for future F1 rules come up.

One question (to anyone who can answer it). Why does a more upright seating position help protect the driver's back? I would have thought that sitting more upright would make it worse for the driver's back on a hard landing.

#12 red stick

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:28

There's some revisionist history on Kirby's part (CART ovals weren't entertaining since about 1995, so that's 6 years of dullness) and Ashmore had the foundation for some good arguments but then turned it into a complaint about the bid process.


I enjoy reading Kirby a lot, and am looking forward to his upcoming book on Newman/Haas Racing, but his columns of late are a bit . . . lacking. A few weeks ago he was singing the praises of high-tech, cutting-edge, ALMS racing, and all I could think was, for most of the year there were three cars, and two from one team, in their most cutting-edge class. Is this our model?

Still, he's usually worth a look on Mondays.

Edited by red stick, 01 November 2011 - 14:59.


#13 Peat

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:55

I can't see Wilson getting the Go Daddy ride. He's not exactly a marketeer's dream, is he?

#14 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:56

One question (to anyone who can answer it). Why does a more upright seating position help protect the driver's back? I would have thought that sitting more upright would make it worse for the driver's back on a hard landing.

Interesting question, I'm curious as well.

#15 red stick

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 14:57

I can't see Wilson getting the Go Daddy ride. He's not exactly a marketeer's dream, is he?


I think it's fair to say a different demographic would want to see him in a shower.


#16 Rob

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 15:21

Cavin suggests if Briscoe is available he'd get the nod because he's better on ovals and more likely to put GoDaddy in the winner's circle at Indy. And if they go with Wilson who's the oval guy at Andretti? Marco?


Will Power wasn't that great on ovals until he got a Penske. Also, Wilson has never been with a team that's run well on an oval, barring his year with Newman/Haas when they were in the first year of the unified series.

#17 blackhand2010

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 15:57

As much as I'd love to see Justin in a top team, I just don't see it happening. He's in the unenviable position of not having great results on ovals; not being fantastically marketable (in a Danica or Marco way); not having a big personal sponsor who'd clinch the deal; and his injury put him out he spotlight for the back end of the season.
I fear another year in a mid to back of the grid team, however I really hope I'm wrong.

#18 Dolph

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 16:04

Gordon Kirby on Bruce Ashmore's critique of the new Dallara. I go back and forth about how much of this is penetrating analysis and how much is sour grapes.

http://www.gordonkir...t_is_no310.html


I'd take anything he says with reserve. He claims that GP2 racing is processional: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It's true not only on oval tracks but also at road courses like Mid-Ohio and Infineon Raceway where passing is equally impossible and a procession ensues looking more like Indy Lights or GP2 cars than full-blooded Indy cars.



#19 red stick

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 16:08

Will Power wasn't that great on ovals until he got a Penske. Also, Wilson has never been with a team that's run well on an oval, barring his year with Newman/Haas when they were in the first year of the unified series.


I don't think the belief is that Wilson is incapable of driving well on ovals, and I take your point.

But if you believe, as I do, that Andretti's problems over the past few years stem from the loss of Herta and Franchitti, who were instrumental in the testing and setting up of the cars, and that Marco and DP were sorely lacking in this area, then the question of "Wilson or Briscoe?," on a team containing Marco, RHR, and perhaps Conway, may be a different one. Assuming Briscoe is available.



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#20 Jim Thurman

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 17:40

And Larry Curry out at D&B.

http://auto-racing.s...einbold-racing/

Don't you mean D&R?

I hope D&R take a good, thorough inventory.

#21 red stick

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 18:01

Don't you mean D&R?

I hope D&R take a good, thorough inventory.

Yeah, D&R. And that was after the first cup of coffee, so . . .


#22 red stick

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 18:33

It might be useful at this point to run down who is where for next year, which also happened to be a subject in Curt Cavin's blog yesterday. The Lineup:

Penske:
Power
Castroneves

Briscoe (if sponsorship found)

Ganassi:
Franchitti
Dixon
Rahal
Kimball

Andretti:
Andretti
Hunter-Reay
Conway?
The GoDaddy ride (Wilson, Briscoe, etc.)

Newman/Haas:
Servia
Hinchcliffe

Dreyer & Reinbold:
?

KV:
Kanaan


Panther:
Hildebrand returning?

HVM:
de Silvestro


Sarah Fisher:
Carpenter

Foyt:
Meira out, Baguette in?

Sam Schmidt:
Pagenaud?

Coyne:
?

Any other confirmations?



#23 Risil

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 18:59

What's the likely 2012 schedule going to be? Wikipedia has 13 races confirmed, one (Edmonton) without a date:

3/25 St Pete
4/1 Barber
4/15 Long Beach
4/29 Sao Paulo
5/27 Indy
6/3 Belle Isle
6/9 Texas doubleheader
6/23 Iowa
8/26 Sonoma
9/2 Baltimore
9/15 Fontana
10/14 Vegas
[? Edmonton]

Motegi's gone; so are Milwaukee, New Hampshire and Kentucky owing to significant losses on Indycar events.

#24 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 00:05

That's a very interesting read. To me it reads more like sour grapes but it's hard to say. A lot of what he says makes sense but then I also sense a lot of that wishful thinking that we get here every time the ideas for future F1 rules come up.

One question (to anyone who can answer it). Why does a more upright seating position help protect the driver's back? I would have thought that sitting more upright would make it worse for the driver's back on a hard landing.

I don't think it's meant to address hard landings, but rather head-on hits. Head-on accidents led to quite a few nasty back injuries over the years.

Edited by Dmitriy_Guller, 02 November 2011 - 00:06.


#25 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 01:51

That's a very interesting read. To me it reads more like sour grapes but it's hard to say. A lot of what he says makes sense but then I also sense a lot of that wishful thinking that we get here every time the ideas for future F1 rules come up.

One question (to anyone who can answer it). Why does a more upright seating position help protect the driver's back? I would have thought that sitting more upright would make it worse for the driver's back on a hard landing.

Just about everything he says makes sense, and considering his CV, I accept his judgement. Between those two articles, it is a perceptive view on CART/IRL going back almost two decades. While some may call it sour grapes, I'd say he just still doesn't get it. IMS runs this sport and there is only one thing they care about.

Is it a car that will make a good race at indy?

The irl could care less what happens on any other track.
Hence the rules we have, perfectly sufficient to generate a crowd at IMS.
While the rest of the schedule may be critical to car owners and sponsors, it doesn't matter to the guys who write the rule book, they have offices at 16th and Georgetown paid for by one race.

#26 Dilla

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 01:55

...so are Milwaukee, New Hampshire and Kentucky owing to significant losses on Indycar events.

:cry:

I would love to see Newgarden in the AA seat, but it'll go to veteran.

Edited by Dilla, 02 November 2011 - 01:56.


#27 Mat

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 02:18

Interesting question, I'm curious as well.


Looks like Briscoe is back at Penske! No mention of who the sponsor is though.

http://auto-racing.s...-penske-return/



#28 anbeck

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 04:31

Which teams are set for which engine supplier?

#29 Peat

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 08:09

One question (to anyone who can answer it). Why does a more upright seating position help protect the driver's back? I would have thought that sitting more upright would make it worse for the driver's back on a hard landing.


I believe that it isn't so much an 'upright' position but more of an elevated seating position. The seat is no longer sat directly on the floor but on somekind of deformable structure. That's what i understood from an interview i head with DW a while back.

#30 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 08:45

Just about everything he says makes sense, and considering his CV, I accept his judgement. Between those two articles, it is a perceptive view on CART/IRL going back almost two decades. While some may call it sour grapes, I'd say he just still doesn't get it. IMS runs this sport and there is only one thing they care about.

Is it a car that will make a good race at indy?

The irl could care less what happens on any other track.
Hence the rules we have, perfectly sufficient to generate a crowd at IMS.
While the rest of the schedule may be critical to car owners and sponsors, it doesn't matter to the guys who write the rule book, they have offices at 16th and Georgetown paid for by one race.


I thought what he said about CART made a lot of sense, at least in terms of what the formula was. Powerful engines and less downforce means the drivers can make a difference on the oval.

What I think he's got wrong or at least hasn't fully considered is the very open rule book. That can drive costs up as development soars. It's fine if people are watching and the sponsorship is strong, but Indycar doesn't have that luxury right now.

His CV is irrelevant. I don't do argument from authority. His statement's must stand on their own merits.

Obviously the car will have to provide good racing at Indy. Indy is the big one, and it is also a unique track. But I think you meant to say that Indycar couldn't care less about the other tracks. But I think you're a bit wrong there too, because they wouldn't have made such a different road course package if Indy was all that mattered (as with the old car).

#31 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 08:45

I don't think it's meant to address hard landings, but rather head-on hits. Head-on accidents led to quite a few nasty back injuries over the years.



I believe that it isn't so much an 'upright' position but more of an elevated seating position. The seat is no longer sat directly on the floor but on somekind of deformable structure. That's what i understood from an interview i head with DW a while back.


Both make sense :up:

#32 red stick

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:19

Which teams are set for which engine supplier?


From today's Indy Star.

http://www.indystar....vy-engine-2012-

KV Racing, Penske Racing and Andretti Autosport have all signed on with Chevy. Chip Ganassi and A.J. Foyt are using Honda, and Michael Shank's new team has chosen Lotus.



#33 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 13:18

So the team that had "Lotus" plastered all over it this year won't use Lotus engines next year? Does that mean that Lotus is out of the engine business in Indycar?

#34 Rob

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 13:47

So the team that had "Lotus" plastered all over it this year won't use Lotus engines next year? Does that mean that Lotus is out of the engine business in Indycar?


For them to be "out" would require that they were "in" in the first place.  ;)

I've still not seen any updates concerning the Lotus engine.

#35 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 13:54

Why are so few Honda teams announced. And why is the powerplant of someone like Newman-Haas never really talked about.

#36 Andy865

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 16:30

If i owned a team Honda would get my vote. The things are bulletproof.

#37 Fulcrum

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 17:38

New car test in Indy:


#38 Peat

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 20:05

New teams!

http://auto-racing.s...r-rahal-in-2012

Carpenter running his own outit and Bobby's back with a 2-car effort. Things are looking up!

#39 Seanspeed

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 20:16

New car test in Indy:

The Honda seems to sound better....

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#40 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 20:36

Did we ever get TV ratings for Vegas? I ask because

“Your audience is so diff this time around because of the Internet. The reach is so much different and I just firmly believe -- from doing my homework and knowing that they pulled a 3.8 TV rating in the final 30 to 40 minutes of that telecast -- that you have very, very casual observers who had stumbled upon it because of the internet because of things they were seeing on Twitter and things they are seeing on You Tube. It was everywhere and it was everywhere fast.”


http://pressdog.type...e-to-nose-.html

#41 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 20:59

The Honda seems to sound better....


At least they sound different from each other :clap:

#42 Bloggsworth

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 00:01

New car test in Indy:


Wish we heard that noise in the television broadcasts.

#43 peacockantony

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:31

So the team that had "Lotus" plastered all over it this year won't use Lotus engines next year? Does that mean that Lotus is out of the engine business in Indycar?

For them to be "out" would require that they were "in" in the first place. ;)

I've still not seen any updates concerning the Lotus engine.

Group Lotus did exactly what they have done in F1, with the Renault team (in a pathetic bid against Team Lotus) . Sponsor a team and then claim it to be there entry. Then there is the supposed Lotus engine. Which is not a Lotus engine, but in fact a Judd rebadge of a Judd engine.

Maybe they Group Lotus should stick to what they are good at and what Colin Chapman set this side of the company up to do, and create road cars.

#44 B Squared

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 12:52

Tony George and Ed Carpenter form new team for 2012:

http://www.indycar.c...-fuzzyand-39-s/

#45 PhilG

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 13:01

If i owned a team Honda would get my vote. The things are bulletproof.


So you missed the fact that the new Chevy is made by the people that made the old Honda then ??

#46 PayasYouRace

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 13:26

Carpenter will be driving for his own team next year.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/95862

It will be partly owned by Tony George. Sounds like Vision Racing part 2 then. Having said that I think he deserves a ride as he has done well on a number of ovals and did win Kentucky this year.

#47 Rob

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 13:32

It will be partly owned by Tony George. Sounds like Vision Racing part 2 then.


That's exactly what I thought when I read the news.

#48 teejay

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 14:04

Rahal has bought 2 cars - who do we think will be the driver?

Edited by teejay, 03 November 2011 - 14:19.


#49 Dolph

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 15:33

Dunno. When will Bourdais get a competitive ride?

#50 Red17

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 20:21

Group Lotus did exactly what they have done in F1, with the Renault team (in a pathetic bid against Team Lotus) . Sponsor a team and then claim it to be there entry. Then there is the supposed Lotus engine. Which is not a Lotus engine, but in fact a Judd rebadge of a Judd engine.

Maybe they Group Lotus should stick to what they are good at and what Colin Chapman set this side of the company up to do, and create road cars.

So far only one team has confirmed to use Lotus engines. A few more should be announced as the man in charge said quite clearly that GL's target are new teams.