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Halseylec in 'Classic & Sports Car'


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#1 bill p

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 14:27

The recent letter in the December 2011 edition of Classic & Sports Car relating the "return" of the Halseylec interested me because the car was written off in an accident in July 1964 during a practice session for the races at Dunboyne in Ireland.

The body, suspension & chassis were scrapped shortly after the accident with the 1098 Climax and Bristol gearbox being sold on.

I have just spoken to the owner/driver of the car at the time, Michael McRitchie, who found it very interesting that the car has made a "competition return".

Incidently, the car was known as the Halselec ( "y" missing) when racing in Ireland.

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The photo shows the Halseylec in the 1964 Dunboyne "Paddock" shortly before its demise

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Edited by bill p, 08 November 2011 - 14:29.


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#2 Simon Thomas

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 15:38

The recent letter in the December 2011 edition of Classic & Sports Car relating the "return" of the Halseylec interested me because the car was written off in an accident in July 1964 during a practice session for the races at Dunboyne in Ireland.

The body, suspension & chassis were scrapped shortly after the accident with the 1098 Climax and Bristol gearbox being sold on.

I have just spoken to the owner/driver of the car at the time, Michael McRitchie, who found it very interesting that the car has made a "competition return".

Incidently, the car was known as the Halselec ( "y" missing) when racing in Ireland.

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The photo shows the Halseylec in the 1964 Dunboyne "Paddock" shortly before its demise

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The only piece of the car I have seen since Dunboyne 1964 was part of the nose cut out and showing the registration number WPK 6. This was about 1980 when it was hung on the garage wall of Neill McRitchie, Michael's brother.
Simon Thomas

#3 Tim Murray

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 16:01

I've not seen the letter so am not sure exactly what it says, but were there not two Halseylecs?

#4 Peter Morley

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 16:25

I've not seen the letter so am not sure exactly what it says, but were there not two Halseylecs?


I think there are still two Halseylecs:
one that was restored a long time ago (1980s?) and featured in Classic & Sportscar around that time
and the other, that needed restoring, was owned by Martin Cowell until recently (end of last year presumably).
No idea which one is WPK6 the 1955 car or 7BPA the 1956 car or how that fits in with WPK6 being written off in Ireland....

#5 bill p

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 16:51

I think there are still two Halseylecs:
one that was restored a long time ago (1980s?) and featured in Classic & Sportscar around that time
and the other, that needed restoring, was owned by Martin Cowell until recently (end of last year presumably).
No idea which one is WPK6 the 1955 car or 7BPA the 1956 car or how that fits in with WPK6 being written off in Ireland....


WPK 6 was the 1955 car.

Eric Brandon, John Anstice-Brown, Gerry Kinnane, Dennis Kinghan being some of the owners before Michael McRitchie

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Halseylec at Kirkistown, N Ireland in 1963
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Edited by bill p, 09 November 2011 - 07:35.


#6 Graham Gauld

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 17:24

WPK 6 was the 1955 car.

Eric Brandon, John Anstice-Brown, Gerry Kinnane, Dennis Kinghan being some of the owners before Michael McRitchie

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Halselec at Kirkistown, N Ireland in 1964
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Purely out of interest. Eric Brandon with the Halseylec in the British Empire Trophy at Oulton Park

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#7 Simon Thomas

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 20:38

Purely out of interest. Eric Brandon with the Halseylec in the British Empire Trophy at Oulton Park

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I quote from Classic and Sports Car December 2001.
"WPK 6 passed to John Anstice-Brown in 1960 who campaigned the car at club level before selling it to Denis Kingham (actually Kinghan) who had a serious accident causing heavy damage. The front suspension was replaced with a Volkswagen Beetle-based-set-up, while the damaged body was removed and substituted with one from a Falcon kit car.
The car was returned to the U.K. before Historic Specials registrar Richard Disbrow discovered it."That was 10 years ago and it has been lying in a garden for many years he stated.
The article was in Lost and Found by Richard Heseltine and Michael Ware.
I do not intend to comment any further but there is something wrong somewhere.
Simon Thomas


#8 Peter Morley

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 00:40

I just found a reference to Classic & Sportscar April 1984 having an article on the Halseylec, that is the article I remember.
The car in the article had been restored and painted blue and IIRC Martin Cowell said it wasn't the one he had until recently - so it was presumably 7BPA.
Unless someone beats me to it (hopefully), I'll have a rummage and look for my copy.

In the July 1984 issue there was apparently a letter from the Halseylec's maker - Eric Brandon presumably.

According to Autodiva in 2009:
Both cars were sold at the end of the 1956 season and 7BPA didn't race again, but has now been restored.
While WPK6 ends up with Denis Kanghan and finished its career with the name Cliden.

Did WPK6 really change name?

#9 bill p

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:27

I just found a reference to Classic & Sportscar April 1984 having an article on the Halseylec, that is the article I remember.
The car in the article had been restored and painted blue and IIRC Martin Cowell said it wasn't the one he had until recently - so it was presumably 7BPA.
Unless someone beats me to it (hopefully), I'll have a rummage and look for my copy.

In the July 1984 issue there was apparently a letter from the Halseylec's maker - Eric Brandon presumably.

According to Autodiva in 2009:
Both cars were sold at the end of the 1956 season and 7BPA didn't race again, but has now been restored.
While WPK6 ends up with Denis Kanghan and finished its career with the name Cliden.

Did WPK6 really change name?


Denis Kinghan made the name "Cliden" up from CLImax and DENis - WPK 6, was then sold to Michael McRitchie and the name reverted to Halseylec

As an aside, before the Halseylec Denis raced a Condor fitted with a 1098 Coventry Climax engine which was also named as a Cliden

Edited by bill p, 09 November 2011 - 07:53.


#10 bill p

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:54

I have scanned Michael McRitchie's letter from the Jan 2001 Classic & Sports Car which describes the history in Michael's ownership and its demise. See below

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#11 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:58

I've found the 1984 article (by Doug Nye) in Classic & Sports Car. The chain of ownership of WPK6 is given as follows:

George Rance of the HSCC records Dave Latchford's ownership of 'WPK6' in 1957, when he took it on a Continental tour and drove at Brandon's one-time happy hunting ground of Helsinki, then at Roskildering outside Copenhagen, Denmark, and finally notched a class win with Scott MacArthur in the rugged Messina 10 Hours which must be some considerable tribute either to the little car's construction or to its drivers' resilience ...

Latchford, who had formerly raced an Iota 5000, took the car to the F2 Pau GP in April '58 and finished last against the single-seaters. He then seems to have sold the car to John Anstice-Brown whom George Rance knew well as a friend of his brother Jack. Anstice-Brown ran the car in clubbies for some time, until he sold the car to Denis Kingham, who called it the Cliden, and was fourth in the second heat of the Gold Flake Trophy at Phoenix Park in Dublin in 1962. Then the car disappeared, believed destroyed.


The 'letter from the Halseylec's maker' is from Ginger Devlin, and covers the building and early races of the cars. There is also a letter from someone who worked in the motor tax department of a County Council in 1975, when he dealt with the transfer of the registration WPK6 from the Halseylec to another vehicle.

If anyone fancies a scan of the article, PM me your email address.

#12 bill p

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 13:05

I've found the 1984 article (by Doug Nye) in Classic & Sports Car. The chain of ownership of WPK6 is given as follows:



The 'letter from the Halseylec's maker' is from Ginger Devlin, and covers the building and early races of the cars. There is also a letter from someone who worked in the motor tax department of a County Council in 1975, when he dealt with the transfer of the registration WPK6 from the Halseylec to another vehicle.

If anyone fancies a scan of the article, PM me your email address.


Thank you, Tim.

WPK 6 did not "disappear, presumed destroyed" after Denis Kinghan's ownership.

Best to read my Post #10 which gives the full story after Denis Kinghan by WPK 6's last owner, Michael McRitchie.

Bill Patterson


#13 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 13:15

Bill, I was merely quoting what Doug Nye wrote in 1984. I know that this has now been shown to be incorrect, and that this thread is doing what TNF does so well, sorting out the truth by assembling all the known info. :)

#14 bill p

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 13:22

Bill, I was merely quoting what Doug Nye wrote in 1984. I know that this has now been shown to be incorrect, and that this thread is doing what TNF does so well, sorting out the truth by assembling all the known info. :)


Cheers, Tim


#15 michael43

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 18:42

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I have the happiest memories of my Halselec-Climax WPK6, pictured at Kirkistown hairpin in 1963, and 46 years on it continues to amaze me. It enjoys more resurrections than the corniest Hammer horror film, so perhaps we can lay this brave little car to rest for good, except in the memories of those who still have a remarkable affection for it to this day. It's amazing how many people still mention it to me.

I was surprised by Classic & Sports Car's current Letter of the Month in which Bryn Ives of Wolverhampton writes of his Halselec-Climax WPK6, because C&SC's Letter of the Month in January 2001 was my account of three years with this car, culminating in its write-off during the 1965 Leinster Trophy at Dunboyne.

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I bought the Halselec for £275 from Denis Kinghan in late 1962, and I used it for three years as my road car as well as for racing. Your correspondent Bill Patterson Jr, then aged about 10, will thank me for this pic outside his Belfast home in May 1964, in which he letters Joe Watson's van while I threaten the Halselec. Note the full-width screen which I used for road work, part of the original build, replaced for racing by the single screen and metal tonneau over passenger seat. The car was cosy in both seats even in winter, the airflow going over one's head although having hair was an advantage. Happy days when I could do 120 raucous miles around the Antrim coast for £1 worth of Esso Golden, the Climax exhaust singing back off the cliffs at 7000 rpm, equating to 120 mph ... no limits then, and empty roads.

However, the Halselec chassis was prone to fatigue cracks beside the welds; after the impact there were cracks at most joints. The car was superbly built, but unlike a space frame in which the members are in either tension or compression, the tubes were curved and so subject to bending loads. During practice on the rough Dunboyne circuit several cracks developed around the final drive, which I had to have welded before scrutineering. When I cut up the chassis I found severe internal corrosion to some tubes. At that time, a rebuild was impracticable, so it was the end of the road for WPK6.
For the record, the Climax FWA went to Gerry Kinnane in Belfast, the Bristol gearbox to someone in Bangor, Co. Down, the tyres to Billy Patterson Sr for his Willment-Ford, the WPK6 registration and the log book for £45 to someone in Cheshire, and everything else went to Eastwoods scrapyard in Belfast.

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Bill Patterson Jr took the last photo of the Halselec in the paddock at Dunboyne. A few hours later it was toast. In the background is Billy Patterson Sr's Dormobile 7219EZ, and yes we did camp in the paddock. Billy Sr went on to serve in high office in the Ulster Automobile Club and the 500MRCI. I'm glad to say Billy Sr is still in great form at 80-plus and well remembers that fateful day, even to prescribing a stiff whisky for this somewhat shaken writer.

Mr. Ives appears to have a beautiful replica of the Halselec, and I'd love to see it, but it contains not one splitpin from the original car, of which nothing remains but the steering wheel, which has reposed on my brother's garage wall for the past 46 years, and of course a million happy memories.

Edited by michael43, 13 November 2011 - 12:10.


#16 Alan Cox

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 16:19

Three photographs taken by Ted Walker of Martin Cowell's Halse(y)lec. Ted will have to confirm when these were taken.
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#17 Simon Thomas

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 18:19

Three photographs taken by Ted Walker of Martin Cowell's Halse(y)lec. Ted will have to confirm when these were taken.
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"The car was returned to the U.K. before Historic Specials registrar Richard Disbrow discovered it.That was 10 years ago and it has been lying in a garden for many years he stated."
It never ceases to amaze me when valuable cars are found a camera is never handy. How was it established the car found was a Halselec and not as reported a Falcon bodied, VW front suspended special? Perhaps Richard Disbrow can tell us?
Simon Thomas

#18 Ted Walker

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 08:05

Thanks to Alan for posting my photos. As I recall the car had a "buff logbook" nose bage etc and had Cooper 500 front suspension, and Bristol gearbox.

#19 ensign14

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 08:34

The typeface on the chassis plate looks suspiciously like Helvetica, which was developed in 1957. I doubt that the plate is contemporary with it being the initial Halseylec.

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#20 stemc

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 14:00

hi all
i knew i had this somewhere
hope this helps with the mystery
http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream[/img]

#21 michael43

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 17:17

Thanks stemc, this is the original Classic & Sports Car article of 10 yrs ago. My reply at the time is quoted by Bill Patterson Jr in post 10 above. Bill knows what happened as well as I do myself, for he was at every race meeting and took the last photo of the Halselec, posted above. I presume that today's beautiful replica 283XUM is the one under construction in the photographs with this article.

I've also seen Doug Nye's 1984 article, posted by Tim Murray, which states that after the purchase by Denis Kinghan in 1962: "Then the car disappeared, believed destroyed". Wrong. I bought WPK6 from Dennis and raced it at Kirkistown for the next three years. You'll find the Halselec in the programmes, indeed the photograph at top of my post was taken at the Kirkistown hairpin in 1963.

Below Mr Nye's article was a driver report on the other Halselec 7BPA, by C&SC editor Mike McCarthy. This was an excellent assessment of the car, which was similar to my own.

Regarding Ted Walker's excellent photos, the one of the chassis number must refer to another machine. My brother and I knew every nut, bolt and rivet on WPK6, but she carried no identification whatever other than the Climax engine number. We often wondered who was behind its superb construction. Almost half a century later we found out when we were sent a copy of the 1984 article.

Edited by michael43, 15 November 2011 - 17:37.


#22 kartman24

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 18:44

I fowarded a link to this discussion to Richard Disbrow for his thoughts on the matter, he is not a registered member here and has asked me to post this response on his behalf:-

"I 1997 I was given a lead on a scruffy special on the Hampshire Dorset
border (Nr. Ringwood) it was supposed to be a Falcon with reg, LDW 500 hence
my interest.

It was an early Falcon Mk2 or Ashley body on a tube chassis with VW front
torsion bar suspension badly welded on the front, with Cooper like rear
suspension, transverse leaf etc, chassis mounted diff, with wire wheels on
the back with some old Rootes group engine in the front. The rear end was
quite well made if a little over weight.

It was virtually a pile of scrap which I swapped for a pair of bolt on wire
wheels. The car came with no paper work and I could not and bid NOT identify
it as a Halseylec. Please carefully re-read my C&SC article Feb 1998".

Richard Disbrow

I hope that clears Richard of any misdescription of the car........Martin Collins



#23 Red Socks

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:29

Hmmm, what an interesting story.
We seem to have a car which has been transformed from a pile of unidentified scrap into a significant sports racing car.However we now apparently know that the car it claims to be it cannot be-even on the restoration from a gear knob principal.
The registration number from the scrap has not come forward from the scrap and the car now bears another number. Does it have a DVLA V5 and what is it described as? Who obtained the V5 if there is one and on what basis ? Given the above does it have HSCC and or MSA/FIA papers and what is it described as on those ?
Who in the sequence of ownership after Richard Disbrow decided it was a Halseylec and on what evidence ?
Given it has an HTP who decided at MSA level and FIA level that the specification is/was period correct.Did they compare it with the other car?
A lot of questions here-what chance an answer?

#24 Stephen W

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:02

The typeface on the chassis plate looks suspiciously like Helvetica, which was developed in 1957. I doubt that the plate is contemporary with it being the initial Halseylec.


I do not believe that they gave the car the chassis number 001 - this is a far too modern construct!

:wave:

#25 Simon Thomas

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:43

I fowarded a link to this discussion to Richard Disbrow for his thoughts on the matter, he is not a registered member here and has asked me to post this response on his behalf:-

"I 1997 I was given a lead on a scruffy special on the Hampshire Dorset
border (Nr. Ringwood) it was supposed to be a Falcon with reg, LDW 500 hence
my interest.

It was an early Falcon Mk2 or Ashley body on a tube chassis with VW front
torsion bar suspension badly welded on the front, with Cooper like rear
suspension, transverse leaf etc, chassis mounted diff, with wire wheels on
the back with some old Rootes group engine in the front. The rear end was
quite well made if a little over weight.

It was virtually a pile of scrap which I swapped for a pair of bolt on wire
wheels. The car came with no paper work and I could not and bid NOT identify
it as a Halseylec. Please carefully re-read my C&SC article Feb 1998".

Richard Disbrow

I hope that clears Richard of any misdescription of the car........Martin Collins


Two questions remain for me. How was the pile of scrap identified and by whom? To recap we know Michael McRitchie scrapped his car. Perhaps the Falcon also had "Cooper like rear suspension", why not? I wonder if the current owner is following this thread?
Simon Thomas

#26 andyrp26

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 12:23

http://imageshack.us.../502/027ie.jpg/
http://imageshack.us...689/011fff.jpg/
Found these in my old magazines. :confused:



#27 Peter Morley

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 17:25

The ex-Martin Cowell car is being advertised for sale in Germany.
http://www.finecars....0379/index.html
The photos show a brass chassis plate on the bulkhead and most look to be taken in the same location as Ted's.

#28 Simon Thomas

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:33

The ex-Martin Cowell car is being advertised for sale in Germany.
http://www.finecars....0379/index.html
The photos show a brass chassis plate on the bulkhead and most look to be taken in the same location as Ted's.

Peter, thanks.
I clicked on the link yesterday and noticed there were no photos of the car racing in Ireland. Today the link will not open. The sale price was, yesterday, £58,000. I do not intend returning the car here.
Simon Thomas

#29 Simon Thomas

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:55

Peter, thanks.
I clicked on the link yesterday and noticed there were no photos of the car racing in Ireland. Today the link will not open. The sale price was, yesterday, £58,000. I do not intend returning the car here.
Simon Thomas

All gone very quiet. Is the car still for sale?
Simon Thomas

#30 johnthebridge

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:14

Sorry, somewhat nerdy and OT on this interesting subject, but that "church" in the back of the first picture looks to have been "got at", with the wheels it's wearing!

#31 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:50

Sorry, somewhat nerdy and OT on this interesting subject, but that "church" in the back of the first picture looks to have been "got at", with the wheels it's wearing!


well spotted , they are off a then current racing car , BIILP has the info.

#32 stemc

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:53

well spotted , they are off a then current racing car , BIILP has the info.


I think the cars sold
I heard from a friend of a friend that this Halseylec went to Japan



#33 johnthebridge

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 13:28

well spotted , they are off a then current racing car , BIILP has the info.


BIILP?

#34 bill p

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 16:04

BIILP?


I think EDWARD meant Bill P :)

The yellow wheels on the "Pop" were borrowed for the weekend off my Dad's 1172 Willment-Ford - I think the "Pop" may have had Twin SUs and some tidying of the ports and combustion chambers.

The Willment eventually was owned by EDWARD and is now driven by Frank Nuttall in Irish Historic events


#35 johnthebridge

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 19:27

I think EDWARD meant Bill P :)

The yellow wheels on the "Pop" were borrowed for the weekend off my Dad's 1172 Willment-Ford - I think the "Pop" may have had Twin SUs and some tidying of the ports and combustion chambers.

The Willment eventually was owned by EDWARD and is now driven by Frank Nuttall in Irish Historic events


Thank you.

#36 bill p

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 15:41

I think the cars sold
I heard from a friend of a friend that this Halseylec went to Japan


Was that the Bryn Ives car??

#37 michael43

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:48

Hello again folks ... while I was on hols James Elliott, group editor of Haymarket Magazines, has replied to my mail correcting the Bryn Ives letter claiming the resurrection of Halselec WPK6.

He says they are fully researching the matter before printing anything further. "C&SC aspires to be a matter of record and, when we make a mistake, or more importantly, when we correct one, we want to be 100% certain that it is 100% clear and 100% correct, so any potential confusion or dispute is entirely eliminated".

I look forward to setting the record straight, though I wonder if the Halselec will reappear in another 10 years, when I'll be even more decrepit than I am now.

#38 bill p

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 19:29

QUOTE (stemc @ Dec 7 2011, 12:53)
I think the cars sold
I heard from a friend of a friend that this Halseylec went to Japan


Was that the Bryn Ives car??

#39 michael43

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 20:17

We started with the last Halselec pics, so here is positively the last one! This is myself, 'driving' all that remains of the original Mk 1 Halselec WPK6. The parts were removed by my brother and hung on the wall of successive garages.
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Looking at the remains reminds me that the original buff log book named the car as HALSELEC not Halseylec. Based on this we had the diamond shaped badge made up as per the pic. The first owner in the book was Eric Brandon, then John Anstice Brown, then I think somebody else. Denis Kinghan did not register the car for the road. I did and used it for three years. The log book and registration no. but nothing of the car was sold to someone in Liverpool, I think.

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#40 Allan Lupton

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 14:24

It occurs to me to ask if anyone needs to be put in touch with John Anstice Brown? Lives relatively near me and I know how to get into contact. He still has the Rejo that he raced, but I believe it's in pieces since he lost interest in the middle of doing something serious to it.


#41 bradbury west

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 14:47

Allan, I would welcome being put in touch, especially about the Rejo, of which I have photographs only of the rear end unclothed, other than a general one, and I have a specific interest.
I will e mail you.
Roger Lund

#42 michael43

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 17:19

Latest news on the Halselec saga is that Classic & Sports Car is to publish my letter of rebuttal in its next edition, inviting opinions from readers. I'm sure followers of this forum will oblige, particularly owner Bryn Ives whose Letter of the Month resurrected this epic.

As a concerned citizen with no axe to grind, and no interest in current motor sport, I have also written to the Motor Sports Association pointing out that its Historic Technical Passport, which was posted on the German site offering the car for sale, contained incorrect information in that it asserted the Halseylec car was chassis no. 1 constructed in 1955 by Eric Brandon. I have listed the sequence of events as I am sure the MSA will wish to correct the incorrect assertions on the HTP which otherwise is seriously misleading and possibly detrimental to the MSA’s reputation should the Press discover what it may see as another “fake” story, albeit not an old master!

While looking forward to the MSA reply, I understand that according to MSA "the HTP says nothing about the authenticity, provenance, origins, etc, of a car". I do wonder what it IS for, given that MSA charges some £500 for its issue, plus a £175 inspection fee, plus 40p/mile travel costs for the inspector. But maybe that explains why motor racers are very rich while I'm a penniless ex-aero engineer.

#43 David McKinney

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 17:48

An HTP proves only that a car is in the correct period spec. The only problem that might arise is if the wrong year was claimed

#44 michael43

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 10:03

Agreed but please read the last paragraph of my post^^. In particular:
I do wonder what it IS for, given that MSA charges some £500 for its issue, plus a £175 inspection fee, plus 40p/mile travel costs for the inspector.
Are you content that a HTP should contain misleading or false information?

Edited by michael43, 21 January 2012 - 10:05.


#45 David McKinney

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 13:17

The inspection fee and mileage allowance make sense; the £500 is presumably a means of filling MSA coffers, presumably based on the belief that anyone who owns an old racing car must be rich...

#46 Ralf Pickel

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 18:08

Problem is, it´s a reverse logic - the older the car the (well, not exactly) cheaper it gets...

#47 Red Socks

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 18:09

The inspection fee and mileage allowance make sense; the £500 is presumably a means of filling MSA coffers, presumably based on the belief that anyone who owns an old racing car must be rich...


The FIA levy a fee now for HTP, Period E is 150 Euros, Period F 300 Euros and Fi, Le Mans and everything worth over a million bucks pays 600 Euros.
The MSA rack the FIA fee into their fee.
The FIA has not grasped the fact that whereas applicants were ''supplicant'' they are now by definition customers and deserve to be treated as such.
Meanwhile the HTP is as David says just a description of the car.The physical stuff is checked by the inspector everything else is entirely unchecked and if the applicant makes a provenence claim which is mistaken-or if he is a b.... liar, the FIA and MSA wash their hands of the whole deal.
The HTP ain't at the end of the day worth the paper its printed on.

#48 elansprint72

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 13:09

Out of interest: registration WPK6 is currently gracing a Mercedes-Benz CLC180 Komp Sport, blue, 1796cc, 143 bhp, Coupe, 01/03/2009.

According to the registration gizmo on my iPhone.

#49 pilgrimsmaster

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:34


On the subject of the log book and registration number...
Mr. McRitchie states in his posting……
“I sold the log book to someone in Cheshire for £45”…
£45 in 1965 relates to nigh-on a thousand pounds in today’s money …
this seems to be a lot of money for what would be a worthless piece of paper.
Surely , the only feasible account is that the “remains” of the car accompanied the sale?
We know from Mr. Farmer’s letter in C&SC that the first Halseylec (WPK 6) , was back registered in Wiltshire by 1975.
Selling the log book without a car is less savoury…..even the old-style log books clearly stated…
”if you scrap or export the vehicle….you must return this document to your local motor taxation office”.
As is the case today , selling on a log book with the intent of deceiving the motor taxation authorities
would be a serious offence by both the vendor and the purchaser.
A plea of ignorance by either party would not really wash would it?……not in view of the sum of monies that exchanged hands.


#50 michael43

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:31

On the subject of the log book and registration number...
Mr. McRitchie states in his posting……
“I sold the log book to someone in Cheshire for £45”…
£45 in 1965 relates to nigh-on a thousand pounds in today’s money …
this seems to be a lot of money for what would be a worthless piece of paper.
Surely , the only feasible account is that the “remains” of the car accompanied the sale?
We know from Mr. Farmer’s letter in C&SC that the first Halseylec (WPK 6) , was back registered in Wiltshire by 1975.
Selling the log book without a car is less savoury…..even the old-style log books clearly stated…
”if you scrap or export the vehicle….you must return this document to your local motor taxation office”.
As is the case today , selling on a log book with the intent of deceiving the motor taxation authorities
would be a serious offence by both the vendor and the purchaser.
A plea of ignorance by either party would not really wash would it?……not in view of the sum of monies that exchanged hands.

Fair point as maybe my figure of £45 was mistaken, it could have been a lower figure but this all happened 47 years ago, 10 years before Mr. Farmer's observation relating to 1975! I confirm that the brown log book and WPK6 reg. were sold/legally transferred to someone in England. Transfer of a log book and reg. mark was perfectly legal in 1965 just as it is now and of course I notified the licensing authority, at that time in Ormeau Ave, Belfast.

How many times must I spell it out? Halselec WPK6 less engine and gearbox was totally scrapped in August 1965 and was taken by me to Eastwoods shredder in Andersonstown, Belfast. NOTHING remained except the bits shown in photo on previous page and in this month's issue of Classic & Sports Car. I have three well informed witnesses who were at Dunboyne on the day of the crash and who can confirm my accounts of what happened.

I can assure pilgrimsmaster that if there is anything 'less savoury' or any 'intent to deceive' it is certainly not on my part.

We would all really like to hear from Mr. Bryn Ives, who competed in the very nice replica. When he bought the car, was he aware of my earlier letter in C&SC 10 years ago? Has this vehicle been sold to Japan as earlier reported?