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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#1 Little Leaf

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 08:42

So with just one race to go and testing of Valtteri Bottas in Abu Dhabi focus should now be shifting to 2012. One thing is for sure, after the worst season in the teams’ history things need to improve for next year

FW33 problems
Adam Parr has recently stated that they know what the problems are with the FW33 and that they can be solved over the winter i.e. they should not appear on the FW34. It is easy to come out with such comments but I just hope he is right. A new design team will hopefully come up with something a lot better than the FW33

Engine
Renault is coming back to Williams after a break of 14 years. It will be interesting to see what affect this has but using the same engine as the fastest car on the grid (at least in 2011) will give not only a good reference point but also no place to hide on car performance.

Sponsors
A lot of talk about QLB joining, but this may be dependent on the driver choice. The car has looked bare this year and the team badly need some investment,so hopefully rumours of this happening are true.

Drivers
Maldonado - It would seem at the time of writing that Pastor Maldonado is safe in his seat, not just due to his sponsorship but that he hasn’t been far away from Rubens all year. Needs to improve in certain areas (consistency, amount of penalties), so if he is retained he needs to step up a level next year.

Rubens – not looking good for him at the moment, Brazil could be his last race for Williams. Would be a shame to have gone out with such a poor car

Kimi – Rumours of him coming back are rife, remains to be seen if a deal can/will be struck

Outsiders – Sutil or maybe Bottas depending on what happens with the other drivers


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#2 arrysen

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 09:09

It WOULD be good to see them being more competitive again - no question about that.

There are some trick things on the current car (gearbox in particular) and if they can turn things around as Parr suggests then great news.

Mind you, my jaded, cynical self has heard it all before (not just from Williams) and the proof of the pudding is going to be in the eating as always.

Sounds like a bit of a pipe dream but wouldn't it be great if a rejuvenated Kimi in a rejuvenated Williams could stick it in amongst the top three teams at some races at least?

Hope that they sort themselves out - be good to see them competitive again.

#3 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 09:15

As always, I hope that the next Williams is better than the last. Oh how I've been disappointed recently, but I'll never give up hope.

#4 seahawk

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 09:19

Last year, they said they new said they knew what was wrong with the previous car.....

#5 Little Leaf

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:11

Last year, they said they new said they knew what was wrong with the previous car.....


Exactly, which is why I will wait and see before getting my hopes up for next year!

A change of design team can't hurt though, especially with the guys they have employed

#6 One

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:57

Hopefully they will be good. Mike's last Mclaren was terribly beautiful. Aero, fuel loads, tyres and so on all changed since then, but mechanical bits can be done well.
Cossy was a good power plant, but not s good as Renault I might well assume, having said that, Williams KERS that might going into Renault Unit may or may not a performance differentiator.
If it will be beter than 33? I bet yes. By how much, that is the question. Should be hard to make it worse.

#7 Francesc

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:08

Realistically it can be ahead of the midfield, more than being the 5th best team I don't think it's possible unless some of the called top teams mess up badly.

#8 Slartibartfast

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:20

The time: September 2010
The place: Williams F1 wind tunnel facility

Aero Engineer 1: "How are the figures on the FW33?"
Aero Engineer 2: "Terrible, take a look at the print-out."
Aero Engineer 1: "Bloody Hell! Pass me the phone..."

Designer: "Hello, Design Office."
Aero Engineer 1: "I've just seen the wind tunnel figures for next years car. Are you sitting down?"
Designer: "Wow, is it that good?"
Aero Engineer: "Umm, not exactly. In fact, as an aerodynamics efficiency reference benchmark, we're slightly behind the Statue of Liberty."
Designer: "What? Are you sure?"
Aero Engineer 1: "Afraid so. According to the wind tunnel, the front wing doesn't work, the underbody doesn't work, the rear wing doesn't work."
Designer: "You're exaggerating, aren't you?"
Aero Engineer 1: "Not really. If anything I'm being generous. When I say the front wing doesn't work, I mean it's generating lift instead of downforce."
Designer: "B*gg*er!"
Aero Engineer 1: "The tray isn't so much channeling the airflow as acting as a Brownian motion generator."
Designer: "B*gg*r!"
Aero Engineer 1: "The rear wing would be more suited attached to the mast of a racing yacht."
Designer: "B*gg*r! I don't think I want to hear about the diffuser."
Aero Engineer: "Diffuser? That's a diffuser?"
Designer: "B*gg*r! Looks like it's back to the drawing board. I wonder if we could angle the gearbox? Then there wouldn't be any bodywork at all..."
Aero Engineer 1: "Do you want your wind tunnel model back?"
Designer: "**** no! Bin it! Burn it! Get rid of it, just don't let Patrick see it!"
Aero Engineer 1: "OK. Bye."

Aero Engineer 2: "I'll go chuck this model in a skip..."
Aero Engineer 1: "Hang on! That's the wind tunnel model!"
Aero Engineer 2: "Yeah. You want rid of it don't you?"
Aero Engineer 1: "But it's supposed to be in the tunnel! What are these figures from if not from the model?"

Sir Frank Williams: "Who's stolen my ****ing wheelchair!"


#9 wrighty

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:29

superb :D

#10 Peter Perfect

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:16

I'm sure I've read something on the autosport site where the FW33 back end is discussed. They admire how small Williams have made the gearbox/suspension but then find it strange that the exhaust is so badly positioned.

#11 Little Leaf

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:36

I'm sure I've read something on the autosport site where the FW33 back end is discussed. They admire how small Williams have made the gearbox/suspension but then find it strange that the exhaust is so badly positioned.


I assume carrying the small gearbox design over to the FW34 would be a good thing considering packaging and low COG.

Although the rear wing seemed to be moving about a lot in pre-season testing on the FW33 it seems to have been fixed

#12 BernieEc

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 13:02

I hear Williams are now testing next years exhaust solution in Abu Dhabi.............

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/64416.html

#13 King Six

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 13:13

Rubens – not looking good for him at the moment, Brazil could be his last race for Williams. Would be a shame to have gone out with such a poor car

Not really, how many good cars has this man had in his career, he's had so many cars that have just been dominant over the season. Apart from Schumacher he's probably had the most out of all the drivers on the grid.

Edited by King Six, 16 November 2011 - 13:14.


#14 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 13:48

Slarti Posted Image

#15 Sanman59

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 13:50

I'm sure I've read something on the autosport site where the FW33 back end is discussed. They admire how small Williams have made the gearbox/suspension but then find it strange that the exhaust is so badly positioned.


Williams has never got to grips with the whole blown diffuser thing and have lost alot of talent from their aero department in recent years (mainly to McLaren). 2012 should be better with reduced aero dependency and no blown diffusers. I cant help thinking that if Pastor had finished fourth in Monaco like he should have done then the team would have grown in confidence and morale and done better in subsequent races. They will bounce back especially if the Kimi deal is done. Otherwise I would go for Bottas/Sutil. Renault is also a step in the right direction. :cool:

#16 Baddoer

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 14:26

fighting with Lot.. i mean, Caterham

#17 primer

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 14:36

Kimi – Rumours of him coming back are rife, remains to be seen if a deal can/will be struck

If William-Reno hire Kimi they deserve their failure and exit from F1. It would be one more -and likely the final- bad decision by the uncertified half-wit and his incompetent side kick.

All that aside, it just feels so good to say Williams-Reno. I want them to do well just so I can say this name again and again.

#18 One

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 15:13

If William-Reno hire Kimi they deserve their failure and exit from F1. It would be one more -and likely the final- bad decision by the uncertified half-wit and his incompetent side kick.

All that aside, it just feels so good to say Williams-Reno. I want them to do well just so I can say this name again and again.


What have you got with them? Got fired in your recent past?

#19 cheapracer

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 15:56

What have you got with them? Got fired in your recent past?


I'm incline to generally agree with Primer.

History states clearly Williams and Head's attitudes towards drivers and staff and old age certainly brings about stubbornness and contakerous'es'ism's(!).

I think Kimi is going to have huge personality conflict there from day 1.

As for the FW34, since they had the Cosworth Williams were clearly out front of the other Cosworth runners and I thought the switch to Renault would see them at least battling with Benz but recently they have simply gone backwards something shocking and now it's very fuzzy.

Edited by cheapracer, 16 November 2011 - 15:59.


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#20 Sanman59

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 16:00

I think Kimi is going to have huge personality conflict there from day 1.



That is the key to whether he goes there or not and why it has been dragging on so long. Perhaps both sides are getting worried about how the relationship will go. Adrian Sutil with something to prove would be my choice. He has funds too. Frank should offer it to him now so he can stick two fingers up to Vijay! :rotfl:

#21 Nivra

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 16:24

If William-Reno hire Kimi they deserve their failure and exit from F1. It would be one more -and likely the final- bad decision by the uncertified half-wit and his incompetent side kick.

All that aside, it just feels so good to say Williams-Reno. I want them to do well just so I can say this name again and again.

:down:

Edited by Nivra, 16 November 2011 - 16:24.


#22 BRK

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 17:11

Been a while since we've had a former world champ driving a car with a number that high (18 or 19). Think JV had 15 in one of his seasons with BAR. Assuming KR returns with Williams, that is.

#23 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 17:16

Villeneuve drove No.22 in 1999 and 2000 :)

#24 Disgrace

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 17:20

History states clearly Williams and Head's attitudes towards drivers and staff and old age certainly brings about stubbornness and contakerous'es'ism's(!).


That really doesn't apply anymore. It only really happened at it's peak in the mid-90s when they thought they could do what they wanted with drivers as they saw themselves as invincible. They were in effect, spoilt. With their pay driver in Maldonado, I'm fairly sure they know their place now.

I think Kimi is going to have huge personality conflict there from day 1.


I agree with this.

#25 BRK

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 17:22

Villeneuve drove No.22 in 1999 and 2000 :)


Oh yeah, 12 years then.


For the sake of the sport I hope Williams catch a break, up their game, and KR wouldn't have to drive car no.18 or below in 2013!

#26 Sevach

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 20:08

I like the fact that they are wasting no time in getting the new exhausts on.

Hopefully the "all new" tech department will prove it's worth as well.
The situation looks bad right now, but Renault looked doomed after 2009 and had a great 2010.

Let's go Williams-Renault :clap:

I think they should try for Sutil btw

Edited by Sevach, 16 November 2011 - 20:17.


#27 Pilla

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 20:52

One of Williams recent issues has seemed to have been throwing things on the car without really thinking it through. They seem to constantly be assessing useless updates.

They have usually been one of the first teams to test new rules but it never pans out - hopefully Coughlan and co bring with them a more systematic approach.

#28 paulogman

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 02:16

always optimistic that they will produce a better car and begin a march back to the sharp end!



#29 seltaeb

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 03:02

Drivers
Rubens – not looking good for him at the moment, Brazil could be his last race for Williams. Would be a shame to have gone out with such a poor car

Agreed, 100%.

I hope to see Rubens leading the charge in the FW34 next year. And I hope they change the livery!

#30 Little Leaf

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 05:45

Agreed, 100%.

I hope to see Rubens leading the charge in the FW34 next year. And I hope they change the livery!


Hopefully the livery will change due to there being new sponsors.

And I too hope Rubens stays on but at the moment it would seem that he is behind at least Kimi and Sutil in the pecking order.

#31 Sevach

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 09:58

One of Williams recent issues has seemed to have been throwing things on the car without really thinking it through. They seem to constantly be assessing useless updates.

They have usually been one of the first teams to test new rules but it never pans out - hopefully Coughlan and co bring with them a more systematic approach.


Recently the FW33 has shown some improvement without major upgrades, which shows some improvement in this department.
Under Sam Michael the team just threw a bunch of upgrades, which never worked, on the problems and hoped for the best.


#32 roadie

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 10:49

I am positive for next season, simply because it can't really be any worse!

I think quite a lot depends on the team integrating the Renault engine as well as possible. I don't know if they already have all the data needed to do so, but mating it to the KERS system and getting the cooling requirements just right is going to be a really tough job. They must have already decided what kind of layout and aero solution they want to run, so hopefully the Renault fits this!

#33 Little Leaf

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:01

Bottas is in with a good shout of the drive apparently

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96286

Not sure I would be too thrilled with a Maldonado/Bottas pairing, but then what do I know

#34 Francesc

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:22

If he's technically skillful and fast (because if he's not good on the technical area then I don't know who's going to setup the car) and has money then bring in on. But I would prefer that he's given Fridays running to then be on the race seat for 2013.

#35 Sevach

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 13:55

I am positive for next season, simply because it can't really be any worse!

I think quite a lot depends on the team integrating the Renault engine as well as possible. I don't know if they already have all the data needed to do so, but mating it to the KERS system and getting the cooling requirements just right is going to be a really tough job. They must have already decided what kind of layout and aero solution they want to run, so hopefully the Renault fits this!


The Renault is suppoused to be quite light in terms of cooling requirements, i remember something comparing the cooling holes on the STR to the RBR back when they ran similar chassis and the STR had lots of extra cooling holes.

The current RB7 sidepods are also setting the standards on how tiny those things can be. :up:

#36 Little Leaf

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 14:10

Little bit of good news, new sponsor

http://www.attwillia.../news/view/2007

#37 Anderis

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 14:56

Not really new. They're present on official Williams's site for weeks. No idea why they have waited so long to announce that. :drunk:

#38 OSX

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 15:28

Questions in Venezuela
17 November 17

Venezuelan Congressman Carlos Ramos is beginning to delve into details about the PDVSA sponsorship of the WilliamsF1 team. According to Ramos, no-one in Venezuela – apart from a handful of Chaves supporters – know the details of the sponsorship: what has been paid and promised the team. According to Venezuelan law, no public money can be committed to such projects without the approval of the Venezuelan Congress. Neither Hugo Chavez, nor PDVSA, can unilaterally spend public monies without government approval. Ramos says that the contract between PDVSA and Williams F1 team might be illegal, as he can find no record of the contract having ever been discussed, or approved, by Congress.

Ramos says that the reports in Venezuela have suggested that the deal could be worth as much as $225 million over the full term, depending on the success of the team.

http://joesaward.wor...s-in-venezuela/


#39 Disgrace

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 20:27

Two new drivers for 2012 would be just fine, although that would be the tip of this iceberg destined for the courtroom...

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#40 onewingedangel

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 21:25

The sooner Williams can get the money to replace PDVSA the better - until then beggars can't be choosers.

#41 ff1600

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 02:14

Williams as a team have lost thier way and I do not see anyway they will come back. The last good move Sir Frank made was when he took on JPM only to lose him. No matter what Williams does it will not make much difference. Williams just can not seem to get it's self out of a hole. Bad design, no money, bad driver choise and a raft of other problems. Williams was a winner once in a grand scale but it seems anymore Williams has had more failures and sucsess. Just think about that lamo mistakes Williams has made; Masell, Hill, Newey, losing sponsors and they keep coming. I think the biggest mistake was Newey. They should have keep him no matter what the cost. Even if it was a buy in of the team. Williams would have had the winning Mclaren and Red Bull cars. I think it is just a matter of time before they fade away or get bought up by maybe Volkswagan or someone else.

#42 seltaeb

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:02

Hopefully the livery will change due to there being new sponsors.

And I too hope Rubens stays on but at the moment it would seem that he is behind at least Kimi and Sutil in the pecking order.

Yeah... my feeling is that it would be almost criminal if Williams doesn't re-sign Rubens for 2012, having provided him the worst car in the team's history this year. You can't fault his lack of points this year when the car has been a disaster.

Think about what happened when Rubens was signed by Williams in 2009. He was on the "second wind" of his career, having a great season at Brawn. As he was in the process of making a late WDC challenge, Williams signed Rubens during the Spa 2009 weekend (I believe). At that time, the FW31 was not a bad car... Nico Rosberg was regularly qualifying in the Top 10 and scoring points. So I'm sure Rubens thought that Williams was on an upswing. In fact, I think he said exactly that during the BBC F1 Forum after Abu Dhabi 2009.

Come to find out later that Rubens was approached by McLaren towards the end of the '09 season, and asked about potentially driving there in 2010, but Rubens was already contracted with Williams. Can you imagine how things would be different right now? Rubens would be in a McLaren, next to Lewis, Jenson would still be at Mercedes, and Schumacher probably wouldn't have come out of retirement.

Rubens would probably have won a few times at McLaren, and we probably wouldn't be talking about retirement right now.

#43 Sevach

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:08

This is F1, piranha's club, dog eat dog...
If they have a better option, they will go for it, no such thing as unfair to Rubens, that's how the world works.

#44 seltaeb

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:48

I know, it just sucks.

#45 Little Leaf

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 07:26

Well Petrov seems to be doing his best to talk himself out of the Renault drive for next year, this may have an effect on potential drivers for Williams. If they do get shot of him I would think Sutil and Kimi would be interesting replacements for Renault, a team who, like Williams are looking for drivers to bring some cash with them (Kimi via QNB if that is to be believed)

#46 roadie

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 10:02

The BBC made a good point during the last race by saying that if the team do mean to sign a new driver, then they should make it public before the next race, so Rubens can get the sign off he deserves. However, I don't believe they will, as I believe nothing is concluded yet.

I wouldn't mind the same driver pairing as this year.

#47 fed up

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 10:11

This doesn't look too good

http://www.scribd.co...-PDVSA-contract

#48 Little Leaf

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 10:23

This doesn't look too good

http://www.scribd.co...-PDVSA-contract


May be a blessing in disguise. PDVSA leave, Kimi and Rubens or Sutil with backing from QNB.

#49 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 10:37

The BBC made a good point during the last race by saying that if the team do mean to sign a new driver, then they should make it public before the next race, so Rubens can get the sign off he deserves. However, I don't believe they will, as I believe nothing is concluded yet.

I wouldn't mind the same driver pairing as this year.

I agree although that said it's starting to look like Rubens has a chance of driving for Enstone.

#50 highdownforce

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 10:44

This doesn't look too good

http://www.scribd.co...-PDVSA-contract

IIRC, those suspicions over this contract are nothing new.
The point is how much politic force this congressman could have against PDVSA and Hugo Chavez.
If, big IF, the congressman has a point at all.