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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#601 seltaeb

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 04:58

I think it's amazing that Bruno has so much (reported) sponsorship. Does it match his talent? I'm not so sure. Clearly the sponsors from Brazil are paying $$$$$ to get a Senna a spot on the grid. It's a shame if true, because it will come at the expense of the guy who Ayrton himself mentored. It sucks that the pairing couldn't have been Barrichello/Senna.

I'm so mad that Williams signed Rubens back in 2009. I wish he'd have gone to almost any other team. Signing for Williams was a dead end, but that stupid car in 2009 was not that bad, so it looked like an appealing place to go. Curses!

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#602 Little Leaf

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 07:11

I think it's amazing that Bruno has so much (reported) sponsorship. Does it match his talent? I'm not so sure. Clearly the sponsors from Brazil are paying $$$$$ to get a Senna a spot on the grid. It's a shame if true, because it will come at the expense of the guy who Ayrton himself mentored. It sucks that the pairing couldn't have been Barrichello/Senna.

I'm so mad that Williams signed Rubens back in 2009. I wish he'd have gone to almost any other team. Signing for Williams was a dead end, but that stupid car in 2009 was not that bad, so it looked like an appealing place to go. Curses!


It will be a shame if Rubens' last season was in such a sh!tbox as the FW33.

However, if Senna does sign then I hope Williams recruit some top engineering guys with the money. They probably won't as the money from Senna is probably to replace AT&T/GAC etc

No news on a possible QNB deal then? That has gone very quiet. Will be interesting to see who the new title sponsor will be.

#603 Mastah

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 07:35

Maldonado is certainly more exciting than Mendoza with his tyre protection. Look at Monaco and Spa!


You mean driving into other cars on purpose? If that's your kind of excitment, well, enjoy, I hope he won't hurt anyone with his "excitment".



Or Rubens Barrichello.


So you don't think Rubens is exciting driver, when he has fire burning under his ass?

#604 One

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 08:35

I do think that Senna and Pastor should switch driving every other races. There are enough races. Rubens should drive all races to begin with, at least that is how it should be at the start of the season. See what happens clause should work in this case. Ruben may out perform, in such cases...

Two pay driver of not so high calibre? huuummm gone mad...?

#605 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:29

You mean driving into other cars on purpose? If that's your kind of excitment, well, enjoy, I hope he won't hurt anyone with his "excitment".





So you don't think Rubens is exciting driver, when he has fire burning under his ass?

Well it is more exciting than driving slowly and letting everyone else go past you hoping to make up the time through one less pitstop. Besides Maldonado was one of the best drivers at Monaco last year and had a flawless race, can't see how you would complain about that

#606 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 11:04

Maldonado has proven last year that he´s capable of beating Rubens,so i thin he can handle the challenge

#607 ivand911

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 11:55

http://www.williamsf...es/bruno-senna/

Oh, man!

Edited by ivand911, 17 January 2012 - 11:57.


#608 Little Leaf

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 11:57

http://www.williamsf...es/bruno-senna/

Ohh, man!


Are they referring to 2011 as a whole? :p

Probably means an announcement is immenent

#609 jrg19

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:06

http://www.williamsf...es/bruno-senna/

Oh, man!


it don't work :drunk:

#610 Mastah

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:09

So they will have to develop new car from new designers, with new engine, new exhausts and new tyres and solve all problems with feedback from Pastor Maldonado and Bruno Senna. Somehow I think this year won't be much better than 2011...



Well it is more exciting than driving slowly and letting everyone else go past you hoping to make up the time through one less pitstop. Besides Maldonado was one of the best drivers at Monaco last year and had a flawless race, can't see how you would complain about that


OK, you find crashing into other drivers exciting, I have no more questions.


#611 ivand911

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:18

This team will be clowns of 2012. I guess the livery stay pretty much the same. Seeing from BSenna team shirt.

#612 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:21

It´s official : http://www.f1fanatic...ams-drive-2012/

#613 F1ultimate

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:24

Williams should change name to South America GP.

#614 Boing 2

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:30

Damn, was really looking forward to seeing Rubens in a decent car for his final year. :(

#615 Boing 2

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:38

I feel the year when you create a totally new top layer for your design department probably isn't the best time to have two virtual rookies driving for you....


Desperatley hop I'm wrong because if this resurgence doesn't pick up some momentum quite quickly it could be the beginning of the end for the team.

#616 ivand911

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:40

Maybe they will keep Rubens as third driver? Or they have third driver already? Bottas?

#617 Artifex

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:41

I feel the year when you create a totally new top layer for your design department probably isn't the best time to have two virtual rookies driving for you....


Desperatley hop I'm wrong because if this resurgence doesn't pick up some momentum quite quickly it could be the beginning of the end for the team.


I agree in part but I think given the shocking season something drastic needed to be done, fresh eyes etc.

#618 Artifex

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:43

Maybe they will keep Rubens as third driver? Or they have third driver already? Bottas?


Yes, Bottas has already been signed as 3rd driver with 15 friday practice sessions thrown in.

#619 Petroltorque

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:53

Barrichello was too closely assocaiated with the old failed regime. Writing was on the wall for him when the car turned out to be a lemon.

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#620 Pizdek

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 13:01

huh, senna in williams???

not to good old days...

#621 Henrik B

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 13:07

James Allen:
"Bruno says that the team's target for 2012 is to be solidly top ten."

I assume he means in the constructors...

#622 sofarapartguy

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 13:08

All i can say is .. fail.

Goodluck to Bruno though, hope he can prove I'm wrong about his skills.

#623 Watkins74

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 13:10

James Allen:
"Bruno says that the team's target for 2012 is to be solidly top ten."

I assume he means in the constructors...

:lol:

#624 Toml

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 13:11

I guess the livery stay pretty much the same. Seeing from BSenna team shirt.


I was wondering if the Embratel sponsorship will get any yellow on the car?

http://upload.wikime...liams_FW14B.jpg

with the red on white rear wing with the PDVSA

Any ideas?

Edited by Gilles4Ever, 17 January 2012 - 13:31.


#625 MadYarpen

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 13:13

well, renault may also get some yellow, so who kows

#626 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 13:20

So they will have to develop new car from new designers, with new engine, new exhausts and new tyres and solve all problems with feedback from Pastor Maldonado and Bruno Senna. Somehow I think this year won't be much better than 2011...





OK, you find crashing into other drivers exciting, I have no more questions.

When did I say it was exciting or that I get a kick out of it? Being more exciting than something that offers no excitement or enjoyment at all does not make it exciting. I find having my hair cut more exciting than watching Twilight. Does that make it exciting in itself? Nope. Besides at least it shows he tries and he only did it once after Hamilton nearly took him off the road for the second time

#627 Little Leaf

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 13:20

Well as a staunch Williams fan good luck Bruno for 2012

Haven't read anywhere how long the contract is for, I assume then just for 2012?


#628 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 13:27

Well as a staunch Williams fan good luck Bruno for 2012

Haven't read anywhere how long the contract is for, I assume then just for 2012?

I agree, good luck to him and the team.
I would think that is probably the case as then they can chose between him and Bottas for 2013. Works out well for both sides

#629 joora

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 13:28

I'm happy for Bruno, would've liked to see other face in that seat, but I hope Bruno will step up and prove that he is good.

Good luck to Williams.

#630 Mastah

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 14:03

From engineer at Lotus:

SRT40 dom (SRT40™ ✔)
Very mixed reactions to Bruno going to Williams. Good that Bruno has stayed racing, not sure itll help Wills return to the top though... :s


So am I, so am I...




When did I say it was exciting or that I get a kick out of it? Being more exciting than something that offers no excitement or enjoyment at all does not make it exciting.


Yeah, Jerez 1997 is more exciting than straightforward race. EoT from my side.

#631 ivand911

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 14:12

I was wondering if the Embratel sponsorship will get any yellow on the car?

http://upload.wikime...liams_FW14B.jpg

with the red on white rear wing with the PDVSA

Any ideas?

I saw now that Bruno shirt is black, not blue? So, car colors can be black, white and red?


#632 dau

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 14:32

Goodbye Rubens and hello Bruno then. Far from the best lineup possible, but i don't get all the "end of Williams" hyperbole either.

@Mastah: No, i don't think he's particularly exciting anymore, regardless of his bottom getting burned or not. Yes, he's a nice guy and he did have some good races in 2011, but the majority were rather unmemorable, don't you think? And it's not like he's going to massively improve in his 20th F1 season. I also think the importance of his often-stated experience is massively overrated.

Still going to be weird to not see him on the grid. I kinda miss him already.

Edited by dau, 17 January 2012 - 14:33.


#633 King Six

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 14:41

Hmm, I'd argue that outside of HRT they have the weakest lineup on the grid. But I guess it could be all personal opinion, I don't rate Caterham or Marussia's lineups that much, but for a team like Williams that wants to fight in the super competitive midfield rather than languish at the back, it seems very weak.

#634 Burai

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 15:29

Hmm, I'd argue that outside of HRT they have the weakest lineup on the grid. But I guess it could be all personal opinion, I don't rate Caterham or Marussia's lineups that much, but for a team like Williams that wants to fight in the super competitive midfield rather than languish at the back, it seems very weak.


There's no point fighting in the midfield if you can't pay your bills. Frentzen's heroics in that Arrows did nothing to stop Cosworth from impounding those engines and ending their season prematurely, nor did Fisichella's Brazilian GP win for Jordan prevent that team's descent.

Williams priority is survival, not winning.

#635 joora

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 16:07

Hmm, I'd argue that outside of HRT they have the weakest lineup on the grid. But I guess it could be all personal opinion, I don't rate Caterham or Marussia's lineups that much, but for a team like Williams that wants to fight in the super competitive midfield rather than languish at the back, it seems very weak.


I don't see how their line-up is worse than that of Force India or Sauber.

Edited by joora, 17 January 2012 - 16:07.


#636 roadie

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 17:32

Well that's one uncertainty concluded! Sounds like the team have been as judicious as possible in the circumstances...

Now let's see how the new car looks!

#637 ivand911

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 17:40

I don't see how their line-up is worse than that of Force India or Sauber.

Maybe you will see with the season progression.


#638 CrashTestDummy

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 18:11

Well, signing Bruno with his reported $16 mil personal backing could mean that either a deal for a new title sponsor fell through or, at the very least, it is not as lucrative as their last one was, so Williams can not afford to have even one driver on salary now. Not very encouraging development if it really is so.

#639 TheBunk

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 18:36

I guess the good hope is that Mike Coughlan does some magic, but he said itl take time, right?

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#640 Brandz07

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 18:37

I don't see how their line-up is worse than that of Force India or Sauber.


Really? Di resta (dtm champion, great 2011 debut) and hulkenburg (dominated gp2, pole in brazil) isn't better than money bags Maldonado who won gp2 but on his 4th (?) attempt and senna who's unproven but I highly doubt better than either FI driver.

#641 Little Leaf

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 18:41

So now we have twice had the following combinations at Williams:

Rosberg in a Williams Cosworth

Senna in a Williams Renault

Has this ever happened before in F1?

#642 kissTheApex

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 18:49

So now we have twice had the following combinations at Williams:

Rosberg in a Williams Cosworth

Senna in a Williams Renault

Has this ever happened before in F1?


We must be some kind of space/time loop. :stoned:

#643 Mastah

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 19:01

@Mastah: No, i don't think he's particularly exciting anymore, regardless of his bottom getting burned or not. Yes, he's a nice guy and he did have some good races in 2011, but the majority were rather unmemorable, don't you think? And it's not like he's going to massively improve in his 20th F1 season. I also think the importance of his often-stated experience is massively overrated.


Partly agree. If Rubens is motivated (like in Abu Dhabi or Brazil) then he's on fire and as good as anyone. But when he's not... That would be the case against him, but he has something 2 other candidates doesn't have - experience and knowledge, which will be crucial for Williams this year. Ideal solution would be having Rubens for first half of the season and then replacing him with Bruno and his money, but that's fantasy, not F1 nowadays...


So, what Williams can achieve with this pairing? They are aiming into being consistently in Top10, so let's see:

-Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari - out of reach, 6 spots out of 10
-Mercedes - well, I don't think they can achieve that level, not to mention even old Schumi is better than PM-BS, 8 out of 10

and now candidates for the 2 remaining spots

-Lotus - even with horrible FFE and average drivers they were faster than Williams, rusty Kimi is better than PM-BS and RoGro is no slouch either
-Force India - they saw more potential in current duo than in Adriano, who wasn't picked up by Williams...
-Sauber - Checo will show more of his extraordinary talent, Koba isn't any slower than PM-BS
-Toro Rosso - now with 2 faster and better drivers
-Caterham - if they can make as big step as in 2011, then midfield is within their reach, Heikki is quick, 2nd driver will be ok speed-wise

Sorry, but I don't see Maldo and Lalli taking the fight to drivers in that huge group if they have equal machinery.

#644 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 19:19

Andrew Benson has said that Barrichello's relationship with the team's higher management had soured over the poor results. Barrichello on Abu Dhabi and Brazil form is better than Senna but I think he let his motivation slip for a few races mid season which may have cost him.

#645 Little Leaf

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 19:24

Sorry, but I don't see Maldo and Lalli taking the fight to drivers in that huge group if they have equal machinery.


Then let's hope Coughlan can give them better machinery

#646 marcoferrari

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 20:03

Partly agree. If Rubens is motivated (like in Abu Dhabi or Brazil) then he's on fire and as good as anyone. But when he's not... That would be the case against him, but he has something 2 other candidates doesn't have - experience and knowledge, which will be crucial for Williams this year. Ideal solution would be having Rubens for first half of the season and then replacing him with Bruno and his money, but that's fantasy, not F1 nowadays...


So, what Williams can achieve with this pairing? They are aiming into being consistently in Top10, so let's see:

-Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari - out of reach, 6 spots out of 10
-Mercedes - well, I don't think they can achieve that level, not to mention even old Schumi is better than PM-BS, 8 out of 10

and now candidates for the 2 remaining spots

-Lotus - even with horrible FFE and average drivers they were faster than Williams, rusty Kimi is better than PM-BS and RoGro is no slouch either
-Force India - they saw more potential in current duo than in Adriano, who wasn't picked up by Williams...
-Sauber - Checo will show more of his extraordinary talent, Koba isn't any slower than PM-BS
-Toro Rosso - now with 2 faster and better drivers
-Caterham - if they can make as big step as in 2011, then midfield is within their reach, Heikki is quick, 2nd driver will be ok speed-wise

Sorry, but I don't see Maldo and Lalli taking the fight to drivers in that huge group if they have equal machinery.


a/ And we will see, if they were right... My prediction is NO as both current F.I. drivers failed to beat Barrichello (2010) and Sutil (2011)...
b/ Extraordinary talent to finish 16th overall again?
c/ Interesting conclusion... As far as I remember Buemi/Alguersuari were NEVER paired with Ricciardo and Vergne during a WHOLE season to make any relevant comparisons... They both attended only in few practices... Daniel was just ONCE faster then Buemi (Istanbul on wet track), while Vergne was all 3 times way off the pace, which can be checked on times published in FIA pdf document...
So, you are "little" out of reality...


#647 Mandzipop

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 20:12

Bruno has knowledge of the Renault engine. Surely that would be helpful to the team.

#648 ivand911

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 20:20

I think we all know why they didn't picked Sutil. His law problems.
Rubens strained his position.
So, in the end it was Bruno only? I don't know what happen with Petrov, clearly better that Bruno? Still there is other 2-3 guys better than Bruno. With more experience.

#649 TF110

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 20:26

I think Senna will be ok. He just needs time in his OWN car with his OWN team. Williams is his now. His name isn't going to bring him anything so he'll have to make a name for himself. I believe he'll be able to. Maybe, just maybe the car will be decent without the blown exhausts. If he gets on with the team and tests good then they'll have points scoring potential.

#650 Mastah

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 21:51

Bruno has knowledge of the Renault engine. Surely that would be helpful to the team.


a) He doesn't know anything about Cosworth in Williams and how it was.
b) Remember that last year Renault had front exhausts, which changed everything: top speeds, driveability, braking and so on. This year with no EBD and top exhausts engine characteristic will be very different.

It's telling engineers were keen to work with Rubens for another year. Also judging by reactions today from F1 world, Bruno is not the best for Williams right now. Alongside experienced driver? Yes. Next year? Yes. But not now. As someone called it, PM and BS is like the blind leading the deaf.



a/ And we will see, if they were right... My prediction is NO as both current F.I. drivers failed to beat Barrichello (2010) and Sutil (2011)...
b/ Extraordinary talent to finish 16th overall again?
c/ Interesting conclusion... As far as I remember Buemi/Alguersuari were NEVER paired with Ricciardo and Vergne during a WHOLE season to make any relevant comparisons... They both attended only in few practices... Daniel was just ONCE faster then Buemi (Istanbul on wet track), while Vergne was all 3 times way off the pace, which can be checked on times published in FIA pdf document...
So, you are "little" out of reality...


Heh, you didn't learn anything from current silly season. Your both favourites were replaced because of underperforming or smaller potential, which was confirmed by engineers via journalists (Edd Straw and Mark Hughes), yet you still repeat the same old story about times, points, positions and other stuff. Guess what? Adriano was replaced by Hulk, while STR replaced both drivers and it has little or nothing to do with all this s*it. Telemetry told teams the true story of what to do. DEAL WITH IT.

Your bets were wrong, mine were spot on, so maybe you should rethink your understanding of F1, because it was proved to be wrong? I'm no alfa and omega, but I'm just happy my predictions about them turned out to be true. And yes, Checo is extraordinary talent and you will understand it in a very near future.