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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#701 Petroltorque

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 16:08

That concept was flawed. The exhaust manifold blocked the airflow to the beam wing negating any perceived benefit. It was as if Michael and his team tried to use a mechanical solution to solve poor aero as opposed to simply hiring a better aerodynamicist.

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#702 IceSkyrim

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 04:28

Did you know that...

FW34 passes FIA crash tests :up:

http://www.f1technical.net/news/16985

#703 Little Leaf

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:18

The flying lap, great interview with Dr Mark Gillan

http://smibs.tv/the-...ean-eric-vergne

(forget that the link has jean eric vergne in it!)

Heavy car, not using the tyres very well, EBD and engine mapping not helping either on the FW33

#704 Sevach

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 00:01

I'm kinda worried that with so much to fix they will miss the next big thing again...


#705 DanardiF1

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 00:22

I'm kinda worried that with so much to fix they will miss the next big thing again...


But do you see Force India, Sauber and Toro Rosso finding it? No, me neither.

Baby steps, they need to rebuild to a regular points-scoring level first, mixing with and beating these teams first. Then once they've re-established themselves they can begin to think about new innovations.

#706 paweu

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 00:43

Yeah, maybe they want to announce them all together (hopefully with QNB ;) )

All his sponsors were present on his shirt when they annouonced him, as you would expect

It makes sense, but...

Don't forget that in the past few years Williams had shown their car in a dark-blue pre season livery. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember any sponsor logos on it. That's why I don't think they will be announced during the car launch.

#707 One

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 09:11

The flying lap, great interview with Dr Mark Gillan

http://smibs.tv/the-...ean-eric-vergne

(forget that the link has jean eric vergne in it!)

Heavy car, not using the tyres very well, EBD and engine mapping not helping either on the FW33

Thanx for the link.

Sounds good feel assured that Summerville and Guillan worked previously together to produce that ground breaking device and now trying to mount it other thing on 34. Donnonwhat that is and how it influences the time but there are more to come from the team than just a patch up job.

#708 Anderis

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 11:11

It makes sense, but...

Don't forget that in the past few years Williams had shown their car in a dark-blue pre season livery. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember any sponsor logos on it. That's why I don't think they will be announced during the car launch.

There were also all sponsor logos on pre-season livery. I guess it's required in all deals between sponsors and the team. It was only color-scheme which had been showing later.

I hope it will all be announced when the car is shown. But it's strange strategy to announce everything at the same time, I guess sponsors would prefer to be announced singly, not to steal the media attention each other.
But considering the fact that they haven't announced neither Senna's sponsors nor new overalls supplier yet, it's possible that they will do it at the same time. It's only two weeks left before the car goes into a circuit.

#709 Francesc

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 11:19

Why they can't just announce if there will be a launch, when and where... Is that hard to do?? Williams PR at best. :rolleyes:

#710 sofarapartguy

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 11:45

OT, but...

I was just thinking.. You know what I dislike in modern Williams? It has become some kind of career_ender team. Just look at this - for the past few years only Rosberg has gone further and continued his racing in the better team. For Rubens Williams became his final word, for Kazuki it was the first and his last try, and Williams almost ended Hulk's career as well. The team has turned into "fake first step (or good move to continue) in F1 racing", likes the HRT or Marussia, where young drivers race only for one season and then we never hear about them. I'm almost sure, we will never hear about Maldonado (or Senna) after 2012 season. Not because he is a bad driver, just because Williams will dump him by the end of the season without leaving time to find a better place.

In a recent years you could think that deal with Williams is at least a good choice for any driver. Now it more looks like a last hope move.

I hope it will change soon. Sorry again for OT.

#711 joora

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 12:55

OT, but...

I was just thinking.. You know what I dislike in modern Williams? It has become some kind of career_ender team. Just look at this - for the past few years only Rosberg has gone further and continued his racing in the better team. For Rubens Williams became his final word, for Kazuki it was the first and his last try, and Williams almost ended Hulk's career as well. The team has turned into "fake first step (or good move to continue) in F1 racing", likes the HRT or Marussia, where young drivers race only for one season and then we never hear about them. I'm almost sure, we will never hear about Maldonado (or Senna) after 2012 season. Not because he is a bad driver, just because Williams will dump him by the end of the season without leaving time to find a better place.

In a recent years you could think that deal with Williams is at least a good choice for any driver. Now it more looks like a last hope move.

I hope it will change soon. Sorry again for OT.


You could see it the other way too - They have extended Rubens F1 career by 2 years, they were Kazuki's big chance (he was a Toyota man, wasn't there exactly on merit, if he'd beaten Rosberg he could've continue his carreer). And regarding Hulk, his manager almost ended his career, not Williams. Besides, he found another drive quickly enough.

And if you look at current situation, they have basically saved B.Senna's F1 carreer, because I doubt we would see him get another drive. If we don't hear for him next season it will be because he failed to perform. As for Pastor, well I doubt Williams would reject that many millions for running a decent driver.

#712 Sevach

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 03:35

But do you see Force India, Sauber and Toro Rosso finding it? No, me neither.

Baby steps, they need to rebuild to a regular points-scoring level first, mixing with and beating these teams first. Then once they've re-established themselves they can begin to think about new innovations.


If you look at TFL with Gillan a big part of it was the "next big thing", that was why i said that.

Regarding Force India and Sauber, yes you are right, they usually play it safe, their 2011 cars are developments of what they had in the previous years.
Sadly, that already puts in an position of advantage over Williams that has to focus on fixing lots of things.

I think Williams made a good move in the "brain power" department by adding those guys, Gillan seems to have a good understanding of what a car should be like.
Instead of let's put revolutionary gearbox on the car and hope it will make it faster (yes i'm still pissing on Michael :lol: ).

Regarding launch, Williams, in the last couple of years, simply took their cars straight to the track and then, after testing it, revealed what it would look like for the season. are they doing that again?

Edited by Sevach, 23 January 2012 - 03:39.


#713 Little Leaf

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 07:15

Why they can't just announce if there will be a launch, when and where... Is that hard to do?? Williams PR at best. :rolleyes:


They have already announced that the car will be launched in Qatar haven't they? I am hoping it has something to do with a new sponsor...

#714 Anderis

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 08:11

They have already announced that the car will be launched in Qatar haven't they? I am hoping it has something to do with a new sponsor...

No, they haven't. Information about launch in Qatar was unofficial and didn't came directly from the team. There was no confirmation from Williams about anything connected with FW34 launch.

#715 Little Leaf

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 10:40

No, they haven't. Information about launch in Qatar was unofficial and didn't came directly from the team. There was no confirmation from Williams about anything connected with FW34 launch.


OK, that clears that up then!

Would seem odd to launch the car there unless they have a good reason to. I know they have connections there already with the road driving thing but a new sponsor would be much nicer!!!

#716 Francesc

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 11:09

I wonder why the team's page is not working... Updating it to Embratel network??

#717 Owen

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 13:01

Formula1Paddock
Williams Dr Mark Gillan says they'll be qualifying in the top 10 regularly this year
twitter

...?

#718 Little Leaf

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 13:07

I wonder why the team's page is not working... Updating it to Embratel network??



Seems to be working now.

Have the team announced who will be doing what days at the first test? ie who will drive the car first?

News regarding launch and who is driving when seems to be a bit thin on the ground at the moment

#719 Force Ten

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 13:20

You could see it the other way too - They have extended Rubens F1 career by 2 years

Rubens was still in it for the WDC at the time they "extended" his career, so I respectfully disagree with the extending part of your post.

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#720 Clatter

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 13:24

Rubens was still in it for the WDC at the time they "extended" his career, so I respectfully disagree with the extending part of your post.


He was out of Brawn and no other offers on the table. I think "extended" is correct.

#721 Francesc

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 13:32

Formula1Paddock
Williams Dr Mark Gillan says they'll be qualifying in the top 10 regularly this year
twitter

...?


He said they're aiming for qualifying in the top 10 and finish in the points in every race. And that he is confident they can meet that target.

Seems to be working now.

Have the team announced who will be doing what days at the first test? ie who will drive the car first?

News regarding launch and who is driving when seems to be a bit thin on the ground at the moment


Probably will be Maldonado since he drove last year's car and I think he will have the car's number 1 of the team.

#722 sofarapartguy

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 13:33

He was out of Brawn and no other offers on the table. I think "extended" is correct.


From what I see, Williams is hiring drivers who are knowingly not good enough to enter or continue F1 racing.

#723 sofarapartguy

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 13:34

He said they're aiming for qualifying in the top 10 and finish in the points in every race. And that he is confident they can meet that target.


I really hope that Williams has made something like Brawn did in 08 - just gave up in the current season to surprise everyone in the upcoming one.

#724 Clatter

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 13:38

From what I see, Williams is hiring drivers who are knowingly not good enough to enter or continue F1 racing.


Can't really agree with that. They are currently not a front running team and can neither afford nor attract the top guys. Hopefully they can turn that around and the fact that Senna has only been given a 1 year contract shows they don't want to be held hostage to pay drivers any longer than need be.

#725 sofarapartguy

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 13:51

Can't really agree with that. They are currently not a front running team and can neither afford nor attract the top guys. Hopefully they can turn that around and the fact that Senna has only been given a 1 year contract shows they don't want to be held hostage to pay drivers any longer than need be.

Ok, lets take a look from this point of view.

When was the last time Williams has found a real talent, potential WDC? Dispite 3 new teams, who else did hire unproved drivers in the past few years?

Sauber:

1. Has brought the best driver from Japan by now, who took only 2 races to prove his abilities.
2. Invited Perez, who is incredibly fast and smart. And even pays!

FI:
1. DiR - DTM champion after all, who was really good on fridays.

STR - continued to grow a talanted boys. Personally I think that Alg has becaome a desent driver.

And Williams - Kazuki (was he good enough? For a team like Williams), Barrichello (was he the best option back in 2009?), and now Maldo and Senna.

I mean c'mon, even Catherham has had a better line up when they entered an F1.

The only potentially WDC material Williams had was Hulk, who they dumped in a spectacularly stupid way.

It's good that Rosberg has become something good. Otherwise Williams' drivers search skill would be just poor.

Edited by sofarapartguy, 24 January 2012 - 13:53.


#726 Pingu Pi

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:02

Scarbs tweeting that Sky Sports have inadvertently shown the Williams 2012 car on a Maldonado interview.

He's trying to get a screentshot

#727 Owen

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:06

He said they're aiming for qualifying in the top 10 and finish in the points in every race. And that he is confident they can meet that target.

So the same thing as I quoted then. :lol:
Seems like a pretty bold prediction but hey, it's the right time of year for that kind of stuff!

#728 Little Leaf

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:15

Ok, lets take a look from this point of view.

When was the last time Williams has found a real talent, potential WDC? Dispite 3 new teams, who else did hire unproved drivers in the past few years?

Sauber:

1. Has brought the best driver from Japan by now, who took only 2 races to prove his abilities.
2. Invited Perez, who is incredibly fast and smart. And even pays!

FI:
1. DiR - DTM champion after all, who was really good on fridays.

STR - continued to grow a talanted boys. Personally I think that Alg has becaome a desent driver.

And Williams - Kazuki (was he good enough? For a team like Williams), Barrichello (was he the best option back in 2009?), and now Maldo and Senna.

I mean c'mon, even Catherham has had a better line up when they entered an F1.

The only potentially WDC material Williams had was Hulk, who they dumped in a spectacularly stupid way.

It's good that Rosberg has become something good. Otherwise Williams' drivers search skill would be just poor.


Depending on which way you want to slant it you can make anything sound good or bad. According to people on this site all of the above drivers (with maybe the exception of Rosberg) are considered anywhere between very good or plain awful.

Just looking at the Sauber line up both those drivers were beaten by pay driver Maldonado and Koba's second half to last season left a lot to be desired.

Williams took Nakajima because he brought free engine with him, Hulk was GP2 champion and was/is considered a good prospect


#729 sofarapartguy

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:22

Depending on which way you want to slant it you can make anything sound good or bad. According to people on this site all of the above drivers (with maybe the exception of Rosberg) are considered anywhere between very good or plain awful.

Just looking at the Sauber line up both those drivers were beaten by pay driver Maldonado and Koba's second half to last season left a lot to be desired.

Williams took Nakajima because he brought free engine with him, Hulk was GP2 champion and was/is considered a good prospect


When? Occasionally?

I just think that Williams should find a pair of decent drivers (or at least one), stick with them for a while and make a strong move back on top of the filed. I don't believe it is possible with different line up of ex-GP2 drivers every year.

Edited by sofarapartguy, 24 January 2012 - 14:22.


#730 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:22

Ok, lets take a look from this point of view.

When was the last time Williams has found a real talent, potential WDC? Dispite 3 new teams, who else did hire unproved drivers in the past few years?

2. Invited Perez, who is incredibly fast and smart. And even pays!


Beaten by Pastor in GP2.

#731 sofarapartguy

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:27

Beaten by Pastor in GP2.

And Pastor was beaten by Senna, who is considered slower than him and was beaten by Petrov, who got beaten by Hulk only to beat Nico in F1.

It's pointless to bring a GP2 results in here - they show anything you like.

Edited by sofarapartguy, 24 January 2012 - 14:28.


#732 Little Leaf

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:27

When? Occasionally?

I just think that Williams should find a pair of decent drivers (or at least one), stick with them for a while and make a strong move back on top of the filed. I don't believe it is possible with different line up of ex-GP2 drivers every year.


Sorry, I meant to specify in GP2!

I have yet to be convinced by Perez in F1 too, don't see what all the fuss is about to be honest.

#733 Little Leaf

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:28

And Pastor was beaten by Senna, who is considered slower then him and Petrov, who got beaten by Hulk only to beat Nico in F1.

It's pointless to bring a GP2 results in here - they show anything you like.


As I said before, depending on how you want to slant the argument depends what you bring into it.

#734 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:41

And Pastor was beaten by Senna, who is considered slower than him and was beaten by Petrov, who got beaten by Hulk only to beat Nico in F1.

It's pointless to bring a GP2 results in here - they show anything you like.


So what basis do you have that Senna and Maldonado are slower than Perez and Kobayashi?

Other than one season in a better car?

#735 FlashMaster

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:43

Posted Image

https://twitter.com/#!/epiclyaddicted/s...4419330/photo/1

Edited by FlashMaster, 24 January 2012 - 14:44.


#736 Little Leaf

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:46

Posted Image

https://twitter.com/#!/epiclyaddicted/s...4419330/photo/1


Unfortunately I can't view twatter here, any chance somebody can post the pic in this thread?

#737 DanardiF1

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:46

Posted Image

https://twitter.com/#!/epiclyaddicted/s...4419330/photo/1


Have a feeling it could be an FW32 with the camera mounts on the nose... but not sure, why would it be under a tarp otherwise???

#738 Owen

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:48

Have a feeling it could be an FW32 with the camera mounts on the nose... but not sure, why would it be under a tarp otherwise???

and one wing mirror.

#739 sofarapartguy

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:51

So what basis do you have that Senna and Maldonado are slower than Perez and Kobayashi?
Other than one season in a better car?


I don't. And I didn't say that one from theese four is faster than the rest.

It's just the treatment I'm talking about - when Sauber signed a Kobayashi we didn't expect him to be fired in one year. The same with Perez. And with Williams you never know, why do they sign a driver, do they really interested in him or it's just a temporary decision. It's like they never give a second chance - the team simply not trying to grow their own talent, to sell it for big money in the future (what Sauber will surely do), or to use it for their own benefit.

For example let's take Bottas. Are we sure Williams will give him enough time to show his best? What if he doesn't perform superb in his debut year?



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#740 Kvothe

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:54

Posted Image

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Clearly not accidental, seems like they're trying to build a bit of hype

#741 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:55

Posted Image

via ESPImerium on the Sky broadcast

#742 Little Leaf

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 14:56

I don't. And I didn't say that one from theese four is faster than the rest.

It's just the treatment I'm talking about - when Sauber signed a Kobayashi we didn't expect him to be fired in one year. The same with Perez. And with Williams you never know, why do they sign a driver, do they really interested in him or it's just a temporary decision. It's like they never give a second chance - the team simply not trying to grow their own talent, to sell it for big money in the future (what Sauber will surely do), or to use it for their own benefit.

For example let's take Bottas. Are we sure Williams will give him enough time to show his best? What if he doesn't perform superb in his debut year?


Nakajima - was given 2 years to show what he could do
Hulk - left after 1 year but only due to the mass pull-out of sponsors. Was offered a drive at HRT as a stop gap but didn't want it. Also stated he didn't think he should look for sponsorship himself
Rubens- had 2 years at the team
Maldonado - is entering his second year

#743 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 15:00

Nakajima - was given 2 years to show what he could do
Hulk - left after 1 year but only due to the mass pull-out of sponsors. Was offered a drive at HRT as a stop gap but didn't want it. Also stated he didn't think he should look for sponsorship himself
Rubens- had 2 years at the team
Maldonado - is entering his second year

QFT

#744 sofarapartguy

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 15:04

Nakajima - was given 2 years to show what he could do
Hulk - left after 1 year but only due to the mass pull-out of sponsors. Was offered a drive at HRT as a stop gap but didn't want it. Also stated he didn't think he should look for sponsorship himself
Rubens- had 2 years at the team
Maldonado - is entering his second year


Nakajima - as you said, only because of the engines.
Rubens - should he ever been hired?
Hulk - Williams should have stuck with him for a long term. Though team would blame him for a bad 2011 year, I believe.
Maldonado - time will tell. But something tells me he is no better than Hulk. Again, money plays their role for Pastor securing his seat.

#745 Force Ten

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 15:27

He was out of Brawn and no other offers on the table. I think "extended" is correct.

He reportedly also had offers from other teams. So Williams only happened to be the one that "extended" hes career.

Is McLaren currently "extending" Button's career aswell?

#746 Francesc

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 15:34

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https://twitter.com/#!/epiclyaddicted/s...4419330/photo/1


100% FW32, it even has at&t stickers on it.

#747 DanardiF1

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 15:37

100% FW32, it even has at&t stickers on it.


How can you tell? Not exactly clear is it...

#748 joora

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 15:42

Is McLaren currently "extending" Button's career aswell?


No, but for two significant reasons:
1) Button is WDC
2) Button is younger



#749 King Six

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 15:43

Have a feeling it could be an FW32 with the camera mounts on the nose... but not sure, why would it be under a tarp otherwise???

Either way there's not much you can gather from it, so I doubt it matters much...

#750 Francesc

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 15:43

How can you tell? Not exactly clear is it...


At least the front wing, nose and pillars are from the FW32.

Nose section is way too high to be a 2012 car.

It seems they use this car to practice pit stops.

Edited by Francesc, 24 January 2012 - 15:44.