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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#51 One

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 10:51

No money NO Maldonado, so should they want to decide something after this investigation?

If Maldonado leaves and QNB comes in then they get a fresh portfolio where QNB can fill in the likes of their affiliate, so could be all in all good,... I wonder...?

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#52 Francesc

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 10:55

But you lose €25 millions, and don't think QNB will pay more than 30 which half of it will go to Kimi. The team will still be lacking another big sponsorship deal.

#53 Little Leaf

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:05

But you lose €25 millions, and don't think QNB will pay more than 30 which half of it will go to Kimi. The team will still be lacking another big sponsorship deal.


What about the current sponsors, are they all signed up for next year? Oris, AT&T etc? If some of those decide to leave after this years' debacle then they will be looking for even more money

#54 fed up

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:13

IIRC, those suspicions over this contract are nothing new.
The point is how much politic force this congressman could have against PDVSA and Hugo Chavez.
If, big IF, the congressman has a point at all.


I think the main issue is that the contract needed congressional approval and what sanctions if any will be handed down for retrospective approval.

#55 One

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:14

But you lose €25 millions, and don't think QNB will pay more than 30 which half of it will go to Kimi. The team will still be lacking another big sponsorship deal.


This one is a bit out of control of Williams management, afa I understood...? Bit tough indeed, but if a nation decide to kill the tax payment via state company to a sponsor deal what could a company like Williams do against their actions? I think the phrase " you knew that..." too easy going, but taking them to GB court can cost Williams more.

No Kimi, No Maldonado, ... convince QNB that Rubens Botta combination is as good as Rubens Kimi?

{edit} spel

Edited by One, 18 November 2011 - 11:15.


#56 Sanman59

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:30

This doesn't look too good

http://www.scribd.co...-PDVSA-contract



It won't come to anything. There will be a bit of a fuss but then PDVSA will carry on regardless. Venezuela is not a democracy in the sense that we understand it. :drunk:

Edited by Sanman59, 18 November 2011 - 11:30.


#57 Little Leaf

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 13:34

According to this article Rubens is unlikely to be retained for next season

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96374

So that would suggest the driver pairing is going to be

Pastor + Kimi

or

Pastor + Sutil



#58 George Costanza

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 17:04

If only Williams still had Adrian Newey.... It would be 1991-1992 all over again.

#59 george1981

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 19:54

From what I've read about the PDVSA sponsorship it's for 5 years, but they only have to run Maldonado for 1 year and then if they decide to replace him they only have to consider another Venezuelan driver. If so then Williams could keep the sponsorship from PDVSA, but run Kimi + $15m from QNB and Sutil + $5m from Medion. I think that would be a step change in performance over where they are now.

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#60 artista

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 20:19

From what I've read about the PDVSA sponsorship it's for 5 years, but they only have to run Maldonado for 1 year and then if they decide to replace him they only have to consider another Venezuelan driver. If so then Williams could keep the sponsorship from PDVSA, but run Kimi + $15m from QNB and Sutil + $5m from Medion. I think that would be a step change in performance over where they are now.

A little remark :)
If the contract that was posted in internet (in Spanish) is the real one, each year, PDVSA proposes a list of drivers to Williams (which must comply with certain conditions, like a certain amount of experience) and Williams chooses one of them. The drivers must not necessarily be Venezuelan, though.

Nevertheless, Williams has the right to fire the driver later on. And then they chose next year from PDVSA's list again.

In the contract I read, Pastor Maldonado was specifically named as the driver for 2011.
As you said, Maldonado does not necessarily have to be the driver Williams chooses next season.

#61 Andy865

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 20:25

Ceccotto jr.

Easily f1 material. lol.

#62 DanardiF1

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:12

Ceccotto jr.

Easily f1 material. lol.


I see your Ceccotto Jr and raise you a Rodolpho Gonzalez...

Easily F1 (crash test dummy) material...

#63 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:14

I see your Ceccotto Jr and raise you a Rodolpho Gonzalez...

Easily F1 (crash test dummy) material...

EJ Viso? One of the slowest and crash happy drivers in Indycar. And lets not forget the horror that was Milka Duno!

#64 Little Leaf

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:52

In all seriousness it's either Maldonado or nobody on the PDVSA driver front.

Or just go with Kimi and Sutil, which would be a far stronger pairing. Ditch PDVSA and go with QNB and Medion

#65 horsered99

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 09:02

Well Petrov seems to be doing his best to talk himself out of the Renault drive for next year, this may have an effect on potential drivers for Williams. If they do get shot of him I would think Sutil and Kimi would be interesting replacements for Renault, a team who, like Williams are looking for drivers to bring some cash with them (Kimi via QNB if that is to be believed)


Hi i dont think moldanado's seat is safe as pdvsa are being looked into by williams ??? for money reasons ?
rubens well i like him kimi is too expensive spend the money on the car ???
would like to see a new sponsor on the car though ? when the renault deal starts i bet the colours will be yellow n blue ???

#66 FigJam

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 10:00

Williams as a team have lost thier way and I do not see anyway they will come back. The last good move Sir Frank made was when he took on JPM only to lose him. No matter what Williams does it will not make much difference. Williams just can not seem to get it's self out of a hole. Bad design, no money, bad driver choise and a raft of other problems. Williams was a winner once in a grand scale but it seems anymore Williams has had more failures and sucsess. Just think about that lamo mistakes Williams has made; Masell, Hill, Newey, losing sponsors and they keep coming. I think the biggest mistake was Newey. They should have keep him no matter what the cost. Even if it was a buy in of the team. Williams would have had the winning Mclaren and Red Bull cars. I think it is just a matter of time before they fade away or get bought up by maybe Volkswagan or someone else.


The huge mistake was Adrian Newey. Their attitude in that situation basically cost the team future success...and no surprise, since then they've basically been nowhere, apart from a competitive season or two with BMW and Montoya. By the lofty standards of Williams though, that was even falling well short.

There would be nothing better than having this renewed partnership flourish. Here's hoping. :up:



#67 horsered99

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 10:17

The sooner Williams can get the money to replace PDVSA the better - until then beggars can't be choosers.


i dont really want kimi at wiliams but frank might tahe wke a punt he wants to win but at what cost to him and the team and sponsors ???
sutil and rubens

#68 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 15:06

Hi i dont think moldanado's seat is safe as pdvsa are being looked into by williams ??? for money reasons ?


No, they're being targeted for investigation by a senator in Venezuela.

#69 Disgrace

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 19:31

If an equivalent British MP investigated such a hypothetical British sponsorship deal for example, everyone would immediately assume that MP was merely doing it for publicity reasons, or to destabilise the current leadership. I wouldn't be surprised if this investigation came down to nothing but that.

Edited by Disgrace, 22 November 2011 - 19:31.


#70 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 20:31

If an equivalent British MP investigated such a hypothetical British sponsorship deal for example, everyone would immediately assume that MP was merely doing it for publicity reasons, or to destabilise the current leadership. I wouldn't be surprised if this investigation came down to nothing but that.

Indeed. I doubt anything will change unless Chavez either loses the next election (unlikley) or dies from his cancer (impossible to say here) and this guy suddenly gains influence

#71 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 03:45

The huge mistake was Adrian Newey. Their attitude in that situation basically cost the team future success...and no surprise, since then they've basically been nowhere, apart from a competitive season or two with BMW and Montoya. By the lofty standards of Williams though, that was even falling well short.

There would be nothing better than having this renewed partnership flourish. Here's hoping. :up:

The option they had was to sell to BMW.

If selling up to a manufacturer is so good, why did McLaren buy Mercedes out and become a car manufacturer itself though?

Yet, BMW themselves failed. In fact their 2009 results were no better than the subsequent privately entered Saubers with a far smaller budget.

Maybe they, unfortunately, aligned with the wrong manfacturer. A Williams car with the monstrous Honda V10 powerplant could have been a weapon?

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 23 November 2011 - 03:47.


#72 TheBunk

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 06:08

The option they had was to sell to BMW.

If selling up to a manufacturer is so good, why did McLaren buy Mercedes out and become a car manufacturer itself though?

Yet, BMW themselves failed. In fact their 2009 results were no better than the subsequent privately entered Saubers with a far smaller budget.

Maybe they, unfortunately, aligned with the wrong manfacturer. A Williams car with the monstrous Honda V10 powerplant could have been a weapon?



The BMW V10 wasnt?

#73 intothepits

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 06:24

All this uncertainty over Rubens is pathetic to be honest.

They should just sign him for next year straight away. The guy obviously still has the passion and is still a great driver. Just because he's stuck in a poor car this year and not getting good results (again, due to the poor car by the TEAM making vital mistakes in winter testing, and also not being able to solve the problems during the 2011 season due to an unorganised team not knowing what to do or where to go, which is a lot to do with the staff reshuffle aswell) the fact is it is no thought of Rubens Barrichello, he still in this car drives his ass off yet goes nowhere due to a pathetic car.

Why this guy is being questioned into retirement is beyond me, he's still good, and he still has it. The main disturbing thing though is teams are happy to sign other older drivers, who are no way near as proven as Rubens... Such as a certain De Le Rosa, and everyone seems happy to see much older than Barrichello - Schumacher carry on in F1...

For Rubens, this lack of news from the Williams team on his drive is a disgrace. He should be told if it's yes or no right about now so he can confirm a seat with another team (i'm thinking Renault) because this is just not the way to go about business. Then again, this is Williams, they have no loyalty to any driver, even a world champ that won a championship for them, so this is nothing new for the team... Just use the drivers.

No doubt though, Rubens deserves a seat for next year.

It's probably very easy for Williams as a team, to carry on the Kimi rumours to add attraction to a current very lacking team, it creates an interest and also makes them seem a more attractve team. It's possible sure... That Kimi is talking with them, but Rubens is no worse than a current 2 year out of F1 kimi that's for sure.

#74 Little Leaf

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 06:28

All this uncertainty over Rubens is pathetic to be honest.

They should just sign him for next year straight away. The guy obviously still has the passion and is still a great driver. Just because he's stuck in a poor car this year and not getting good results (again, due to the poor car by the TEAM making vital mistakes in winter testing, and also not being able to solve the problems during the 2011 season due to an unorganised team not knowing what to do or where to go, which is a lot to do with the staff reshuffle aswell) the fact is it is no thought of Rubens Barrichello, he still in this car drives his ass off yet goes nowhere due to a pathetic car.

Why this guy is being questioned into retirement is beyond me, he's still good, and he still has it. The main disturbing thing though is teams are happy to sign other older drivers, who are no way near as proven as Rubens... Such as a certain De Le Rosa, and everyone seems happy to see much older than Barrichello - Schumacher carry on in F1...

For Rubens, this lack of news from the Williams team on his drive is a disgrace. He should be told if it's yes or no right about now so he can confirm a seat with another team (i'm thinking Renault) because this is just not the way to go about business. Then again, this is Williams, they have no loyalty to any driver, even a world champ that won a championship for them, so this is nothing new for the team... Just use the drivers.

No doubt though, Rubens deserves a seat for next year.

It's probably very easy for Williams as a team, to carry on the Kimi rumours to add attraction to a current very lacking team, it creates an interest and also makes them seem a more attractve team. It's possible sure... That Kimi is talking with them, but Rubens is no worse than a current 2 year out of F1 kimi that's for sure.


I have no problem with Rubens staying on for another year, which some people seem to have. I just hope Williams can find some additional funding, and if the QNB deal hinges around having Kimi driving then so be it. However if Kimi stays for just one year as most people seem to think, then what happens to the QNB deal?

All of this is just based on rumours obviously, I hope Williams announce who will be driving for them in 2012 this week


#75 TheBunk

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 06:44

That Kimi is talking with them, but Rubens is no worse than a current 2 year out of F1 kimi that's for sure.



(Kimi was pretty average for a while vs Massa)

#76 cheapracer

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:28

Always optimistic that they will produce a better car and begin a march back to the sharp end!


Frank hasn't run a March since 1973 and I didn't even know they were back in F1 .....


#77 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 19:58

Here is the team karting... wonder if Barrichello had any "accidental" collisions with Adam Parr ;)

http://twitpic.com/7ii4ef

Edited by SpeedRacer`, 23 November 2011 - 19:58.


#78 BigCHrome

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 20:14

Been a while since we've had a former world champ driving a car with a number that high (18 or 19). Think JV had 15 in one of his seasons with BAR. Assuming KR returns with Williams, that is.


Hamilton wasn't a champion yet, but he had 22 in 2008 :p

I think they will just bin everything from the 33, I don't know much about engines and the like but I think the angled driveshaft had something to do with the lack of straight line speed of the car.

Also I don't think that just keeping Newey would've kept Williams at the front of the grid, even Newey needs $$ to make a good car. However BMW probably wouldn't have left them because they would've been much more successful in 2003....Oh well hindsight is a great thing.

Edited by BigCHrome, 23 November 2011 - 20:22.


#79 g1n

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 20:16

The option they had was to sell to BMW.

If selling up to a manufacturer is so good, why did McLaren buy Mercedes out and become a car manufacturer itself though?



when in history has that happened?

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#80 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 20:40

when in history has that happened?

He means McLaren have bought back the 40% stake in the team that Mercedes had until recently after Merc bought Brawn

#81 horsered99

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 11:59

hi i am hoping williams do well next year we should keep rubens

#82 roadie

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 12:01

I think they will just bin everything from the 33, I don't know much about engines and the like but I think the angled driveshaft had something to do with the lack of straight line speed of the car.

The FW33's speed trap figures have always been acceptable. However, it's just far below average all round.

#83 Sevach

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 14:10

The FW33's speed trap figures have always been acceptable. However, it's just far below average all round.


After they changed the "draggy" rear wing they used to begin the season that is.

#84 Little Leaf

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:40

Regarding drivers for next year:

Maldonado seems confident he will be there - http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96440

But from F1 racing:

I still can't make any comment about our driver line-up for next year. We're talking to a number of people and we're a long way from focusing in on any one of them - the business of choosing a driver takes time. There have been moments in the past when I've said to myself, "I hope we haven't made a cock-up here," but then that person has gone on to win the title. What we won't do is let this drag on until after Christmas. We need to have it sorted by then so that we can start the New Year knowing what we're doing.

May be a long wait...

#85 Little Leaf

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 09:26

Sutil's manager expects him to sign a contract "a week after the Brasil GP"

http://www.totalf1.c...iams_2012_deal/



#86 One

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 10:09

Still is interesting, but in what way?

1. Maldonado thinks that he will be there.
2. Kimi needws money from QNB.
3. Sutil brings Medion and so on with him.
4. Rubinho got uncountable experience.

- if Rubinho wants to drive simulator at the factory is a quesiton.
- PDVSA money is in doubt, but I can't figure how bad.
- Kimi got speed, but not cheap.
- Sutil is kinda safe but not exciting, Medion money is not too excessive.

What is the order?

1. Secure PDVSA is out of hands, but could work out after all.
2. Secure QNB is almost there, but if stepps in, the the team gets 15 mil.
3. Medion is perhaps 6 mil ???
4. Should Rubinho brings money, if yes....?

Without counting the pigs that I do not have,

1. PDVSA+QNB team gets 45 in total from the two?
2. QNB+Medion, then 21 mil?
3. Medion plus brazillian, then ?

er... I am a bit lost...



#87 seltaeb

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 17:03

It would be great if the lineup turned out to be Kimi and Rubens. :)

#88 Anderis

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 18:09

I would prefer Kimi and Sutil.

With all the respect I have for Rubens, I think new blood would do better for Williams. Especialy if Sutil could bring Medion backing. I would wish Rubens a seat in LRGP next year if Kubica won't return, though.

#89 seltaeb

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 19:21

I would prefer Kimi and Sutil.

With all the respect I have for Rubens, I think new blood would do better for Williams. Especialy if Sutil could bring Medion backing. I would wish Rubens a seat in LRGP next year if Kubica won't return, though.

I don't think there's any chance that Kubica is coming back in 2012. It'd be great to see Rubens at either Williams or Renault. I predicted Renault back in May.

#90 Francesc

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 20:34

Strange that Maldonado isn't on the team photo...
http://www.formula1..../d11bra1803.jpg

I'm not saying he's not going to be driving for Williams next season because of that, but I have a gut of feeling that something is going on... Who knows, if Williams secures a sponsorship from Qatar or Sutil comes with €10 million backing, to add the money of increased Randstad sponsorship and the new sponsor Hatch... Maybe the contract with Venezuela goes to the drain...

Edited by Francesc, 27 November 2011 - 20:42.


#91 Szoelloe

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 20:38

Strange that Maldonado isn't on the team photo...
http://www.formula1..../d11bra1803.jpg


:) hasty photoshop


#92 Starish

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 20:41

Strange that Maldonado isn't on the team photo...
http://www.formula1..../d11bra1803.jpg

and or some reason Patrick Head is admiring the pavement.

#93 The Jim Clark Five

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 21:18

:) hasty photoshop



this is the real photo

Posted Image

#94 marcoferrari

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 21:26

this is the real photo

Posted Image


:lol:

#95 harrys

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:55

Pastor Maldonado is a joke. He has become the laughing stock of f1, one of the worst drivers we have seen in the last few years. Slow in qualifying, poor race pace, no brains, makes idiotic amateurish mistakes and is a danger to himself and the other drivers. I don't care how much money he brings, he should be replaced by whichever Force India driver loses out -probably Sutil.

#96 SPBHM

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 04:14

what happened to Maldonado? just made a mistake or had a mechanical failure!?

#97 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 05:56

Pastor Maldonado is a joke. He has become the laughing stock of f1, one of the worst drivers we have seen in the last few years. Slow in qualifying, poor race pace, no brains, makes idiotic amateurish mistakes and is a danger to himself and the other drivers. I don't care how much money he brings, he should be replaced by whichever Force India driver loses out -probably Sutil.


This. Maldonado was the worst driver of the year.

#98 Little Leaf

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 05:56

what happened to Maldonado? just made a mistake or had a mechanical failure!?


Mistake.

Thank goodness 2011 is over for the Williams team and the FW33.

Please make sure the FW34 is a whole lot better!

#99 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 05:58

Still is interesting, but in what way?

1. Maldonado thinks that he will be there.
2. Kimi needws money from QNB.
3. Sutil brings Medion and so on with him.
4. Rubinho got uncountable experience.

- if Rubinho wants to drive simulator at the factory is a quesiton.
- PDVSA money is in doubt, but I can't figure how bad.
- Kimi got speed, but not cheap.
- Sutil is kinda safe but not exciting, Medion money is not too excessive.

What is the order?

1. Secure PDVSA is out of hands, but could work out after all.
2. Secure QNB is almost there, but if stepps in, the the team gets 15 mil.
3. Medion is perhaps 6 mil ???
4. Should Rubinho brings money, if yes....?

Without counting the pigs that I do not have,

1. PDVSA+QNB team gets 45 in total from the two?
2. QNB+Medion, then 21 mil?
3. Medion plus brazillian, then ?

er... I am a bit lost...


I think Sutil has been a LOT more exciting in recent months... perhaps to show off his wares to other teams. If he can maintain his current form Williams would be stupid NOT to snap him up, either if the Raikkonen deal comes off or doesn't (Raikkonen and Sutil would be a great pairing)

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#100 sergeym

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 06:10

Pastor Maldonado is a joke. He has become the laughing stock of f1, one of the worst drivers we have seen in the last few years. Slow in qualifying, poor race pace, no brains, makes idiotic amateurish mistakes and is a danger to himself and the other drivers. I don't care how much money he brings, he should be replaced by whichever Force India driver loses out -probably Sutil.


wtf? he was often closer to Rubens than NH. And if not for certain McLaren driver he would have been ahead of Rubens in WDC.