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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#1001 Petroltorque

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 13:57

Yes but the centre of mass must be ahead of the centre of lift (downforce) for stability. Move the centre of lift forward -> oversteer (unstable). Move the centre of lift aft -> understeer (stable). The balance is the amount of stability that the driver is comfortable with.

Very interesting that the fastest way around most circuits now is with oversteer. Hence a driver who can cope with everything "on the nose" tends to be fastest. Swervemacher, Alonso, Hamilton. The only driver who I can think of to favour understeer and be succesful was Prost.

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#1002 Sevach

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 14:01

Hakkinen? Button? Massa on 2008...
Alonso, appears to do great on both circunstances.


#1003 highdownforce

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 14:10

I've noticed that Williams is showing only the silhouette of the new car at its website's header.
Would a livery change be expected or some stickers are yet to be discussed?

#1004 Brandz07

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 14:14

Hakkinen? Button? Massa on 2008...
Alonso, appears to do great on both circunstances.


I don't think Buttons a driver who's known for loving oversteer

I really hope they keep this livery, very nice.

Edited by Brandz07, 07 February 2012 - 14:15.


#1005 GlenP

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 14:18

I don't think Buttons a driver who's known for loving oversteer

I really hope they keep this livery, very nice.

Hence his name appearing in the list of drivers who do well with understeer, along with Prost.

#1006 Brandz07

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 14:19

Hence his name appearing in the list of drivers who do well with understeer, along with Prost.


Oh sorry, read it and thought he was continuing the list, my mistake.

#1007 Little Leaf

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 14:45

Only done 25 laps so far today, and none since lunch, what's going on?

#1008 Mastah

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 16:17

Not really the best start to the season...

#1009 Lord Snooty

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 16:20

Hmmm....

#1010 Sevach

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 16:30

No news whatsoever?

Either they hit some problems with the car, or weren't ready to run today.

#1011 Disgrace

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 16:30

No rush. An afternoon missed is not an entire test a la Mercedes.

#1012 race addicted

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 16:40

Ugly nose-section even for this year, but I really like the rest of the car. Hope they keep the livery, and that particular shade of blue for the season proper.

So-so first day I guess but they should be able to make a more readable impression tomorrow.

#1013 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 16:48

Like most 2012 cars, the FW34 appears to run with very little rake.

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The end of the fin on the engine cover really shows how far forward the main body of the car ends.

#1014 Mastah

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 16:53

No news whatsoever?

Either they hit some problems with the car, or weren't ready to run today.


AMuS said they had gearbox problem.


#1015 Jambo

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 16:55

Must have had an issue with the car, no laps after lunch on day one is hardly the end of the world though, that pic above really shows off the space in front of the front wing. Crazy.

#1016 Sevach

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 17:45

The end of the fin on the engine cover really shows how far forward the main body of the car ends.

The rear end is beautiful, low and tight like last year, but with much better lines, last season it looked like they cutted, stripped off, part of the car.

Plus they did away with rear wing support.

Thanks for the info Mastah.

Edited by Sevach, 07 February 2012 - 17:46.


#1017 Little Leaf

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 17:50

Quotes from the team

"Mark Gillan, Chief Operations Engineer: We performed a number of systems checks on the car today, including testing our new engine installation and some aerodynamic correlation runs. Unfortunately testing was cut short with a couple of initial teething problems which we are currently investigating. We intend to get these fixed this evening in time for a full test programme with Pastor tomorrow.

Pastor Maldonado: It feels great to be back with the team and to start putting some mileage on the FW34. The car felt good and the systems were all working well this morning. I like the feel of the new Renault engine as well. It’s still too early to make any predictions, but we are pushing hard and working to understand the car better."

I hope Dr Mark Gillan isn't going to be so secretive the whole season long, just tell us what the problems were!

#1018 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 17:51

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#1019 Francesc

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 17:58

Now you will agree with me that the sidepods are the same of last year, right?
They just have changed the part where the exhausts exit for some heat resistant material, but the shape of them is exactly the same.

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#1020 Sevach

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 18:12

Now you will agree with me that the sidepods are the same of last year, right?
They just have changed the part where the exhausts exit for some heat resistant material, but the shape of them is exactly the same.


I believe it's a lil bit slimer towards the end, height wise and undercut are the same.
This is the earliest version of the FW33 however.

Team's official line towards not running seems to be little launch gremlins :well:

Edited by Sevach, 07 February 2012 - 18:14.


#1021 Francesc

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 18:30

I fear for our team, I really do. The team has less sponsors than ever, look how "empty" is the car, it never has been like that, not even last year. All the important sponsors (the ones who bring real money) are driver related except Randstad. Last year the team had ORIS, at&t and Thomson Reuters on the car, now where they're?

And looking at the car, it seems a modified FW33, monocoque is the same, splitter is the same, sidepods are the same, wings are the same...

I don't know, but let's hope it's decent enough to be scoring or...

#1022 Little Leaf

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 18:54

I fear for our team, I really do. The team has less sponsors than ever, look how "empty" is the car, it never has been like that, not even last year. All the important sponsors (the ones who bring real money) are driver related except Randstad. Last year the team had ORIS, at&t and Thomson Reuters on the car, now where they're?

And looking at the car, it seems a modified FW33, monocoque is the same, splitter is the same, sidepods are the same, wings are the same...

I don't know, but let's hope it's decent enough to be scoring or...


They need to get some sponsors in, the QNB deal would have been a step in the right direction. That seems to have vanished into thin air.

The car looks very bare, and as you point out it does look remarkably similar in some areas. I can't believe however that it will stay that way for long, with the new guys coming in and wanting to make their mark on it

#1023 Sevach

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 19:24

Williams is in a very tough spot no doubt, worst place they ever been.

But i wouldn't read much from the fact that the car looks very similar right now.
If you look at the Lotus, STR you would see they also are very much like their predecessors.

Of course their predecessors weren't the FW33...




#1024 Little Leaf

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 19:40

Williams is in a very tough spot no doubt, worst place they ever been.

But i wouldn't read much from the fact that the car looks very similar right now.
If you look at the Lotus, STR you would see they also are very much like their predecessors.

Of course their predecessors weren't the FW33...


I think that's the point. The RB8 looks similar to the RB7, which was the best car out there. The FW33 however, whilst to me "looked" right, just didn't perform

#1025 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 19:45

The 33 could never get the blown diffuser right, which has gone, also its big innovation at the rear was ruined by the cosworth engine's packaging, now replaced with a better packaged engine.

For all we know mechanically it could be completely different. I wouldn't take the look of the car as any kind of indication. Mike Coughlan, Jason Somerville and Mark Gillan know a lot more about this than us.

#1026 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 21:57

"The car is completely different – we have in our hands a better car than last year, for sure," he added.

"I was quite surprised how good the balance was from the first lap. We were a bit heavy with the fuel and not pushing 100 per cent, but the first impression I had is that the car was working well and I was happy with what we had.

"I'm happy with the engine, and the car is more stable. We need to do more runs to understand the aerodynamics and the mechanics of the car, but the first impression I have is very positive.

Maldonado is sounding pretty happy so far
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97405

#1027 joora

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 22:17

"The car is completely different – we have in our hands a better car than last year, for sure," he added.

"I was quite surprised how good the balance was from the first lap. We were a bit heavy with the fuel and not pushing 100 per cent, but the first impression I had is that the car was working well and I was happy with what we had.

"I'm happy with the engine, and the car is more stable. We need to do more runs to understand the aerodynamics and the mechanics of the car, but the first impression I have is very positive.

Maldonado is sounding pretty happy so far
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97405


good, let's hope he will continue to be happy, and make us happy as well.

#1028 roadie

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 22:37

The car is an evolution of the concept laid out by the FW33, that is clear. Most of the effort from the pictures I have seen have been toward a general tidy up of the rear of the car. There's a new engine and associated ancillaries, suspension, gearbox, cooling layout and rear wing mounting etc.

The front of the car is very similar to the FW33 though.

This is also the first evolution design I can remember since 2008! If they have managed to iron out all of the FW33's flaws, then it could prove to give the team a good step forward in pace. Whether that results in surpassing the teams that were ahead in the WCC last year, I don't know...

Edited by roadie, 07 February 2012 - 23:01.


#1029 Kubiccia

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 00:31

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Noob question here:

The rear is so empty because they want lot's of clean air flow going through beam wing, is it? That way, the lower pressure under the beam wing would attract air exiting the diffuser and thus help to extract air from underbody even faster?


#1030 sheogorath

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 01:36

Not really the best start to the season...


Don't worry, we all know you are wishing Williams to fail ;)

The car is an evolution of the concept laid out by the FW33, that is clear.


I think thats the key difference some people fail to see. The FW34 is not an evolution of the FW33 per se, but it is an evolution of the concept and basic idea behind the development of the FW33.

I'm curious about the front brake ducts, or apparent lack of thereof, though.

Edited by sheogorath, 08 February 2012 - 01:37.


#1031 paulogman

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 03:20

sounds like they took a cautious approach today because of the new engine supplier and how it would integrate with the rest of the car.
tomorrow should be more running.
if they have another day with just a few laps, they will be putting themselves behind the 8 ball.

#1032 Little Leaf

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:55

sounds like they took a cautious approach today because of the new engine supplier and how it would integrate with the rest of the car.
tomorrow should be more running.
if they have another day with just a few laps, they will be putting themselves behind the 8 ball.


Have Caterham changed their name again? :p Sorry couldn't resist that!

It's noticeable from the side shots above how much a lump the Cosworth is, can't see that ever being anywhere near an Adrian Newey design. The Renault must be so much better to package

#1033 Mastah

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:26

WilliamsF1Team Williams F1
For those asking, the car is dark blue and it is our 2012 race livery (not interim) I'll post some more pictures shortly!





Don't worry, we all know you are wishing Williams to fail ;)


Quite the opposite, but with these drivers...;)

Edited by Mastah, 08 February 2012 - 06:27.


#1034 Little Leaf

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:49

Good to hear it's the race livery, I like it.

Get some more sponsors on it though

#1035 roadie

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:47

Already more laps than yesterday, which is good. Hopefully they managed to find and fix all the issues that cropped up!

#1036 Little Leaf

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:49

Already more laps than yesterday, which is good. Hopefully they managed to find and fix all the issues that cropped up!

Yep seems to be running smoothly so far (KA-BOOOM.....)



#1037 One

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 10:01

Hope to see more from the team.

About the design. Not an issue, me think. If the rear end on paper produced three times more down force which it failed on 33, then the most logical thing is to make it work for 34 while keeping the best parts of the car.

Front seemed to be changed, longer nose which is more conventional: OK.
Rear end around engine seems to have changes, which provides smoother air flow: OK.
Side pods get slimmer, that gives more flow on rear wing: OK.
Engine changed and internals reorganized: OK.

I guess lots of checking up has to be done before the team let the car scream, as the engine change is a massive work.
So...

Edited by One, 08 February 2012 - 10:02.


#1038 Sevach

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 10:39

Last time Williams changed engines, 2010, they launched the car with an overkill sidepod and later changed ahead the first race.
The team seems to be doing solid work today, let's hope it continues.

#1039 One

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:27

If G is a good professor, then he might be a very methodic guy, which means, the time will not jump up suddenly, but that is good, as it will not go down rapidly neither.

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#1040 gio66

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:35

Quite the opposite, but with these drivers...;)

you have very different concepts, really unpredictable

#1041 Lord Snooty

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:32

61 laps and a bit quicker too... not bad and hope the progress continues..

#1042 Jambo

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 13:04

Much better day so far. Plenty of laps for the morning, maybe we will get a quicker lap in the afternoon.

#1043 sheogorath

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 13:43

Pastor and the car seem to have achieved quite a deal of consistency which can only be a good thing, considering that while the FW33 times during the pre-season testing were fast, they were all over the place.

22 1:22.184 -3.448
23 1:25.315 +3.131
24 1:22.974 -2.341
25 1:22.562 -0.412
26 1:22.665 +0.103
27 1:22.643 -0.022




#1044 muramasa

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 13:48



I think Gillette sponsor on that place is spot on :D


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#1045 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 14:06

Pastor's face looks oddly photoshopped in...

#1046 Little Leaf

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 14:11

No laps yet this afternoon...

#1047 Francesc

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 14:17

Problems again it seems. :well:

#1048 Mastah

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 14:28

The switch to Renault power has been a critical change for the team as the team’s Chief Operations engineer Mark Gillan explains; ”The initial feedback on the engine from Pastor Maldonado was very much positive even on the installation lap which is very unusual. Indeed it is incredibly unusual for the driver to get out the car and comment on the improvement he felt straight away.” The installation of the engine into the car has also opened up some design scope according to Gillan. ”The Renault engine differs in a number of ways to the Cosworth, it has opened up a lot more flexibility in terms of mapping and it allows us to run a lot hotter with the water and oil which an aerodynamic point of view it is much better. Now we can close up the bodywork a bit. The RS27 also has less degradation with mileage in terms of the engine life. At the end of the season when they try to preserve agents that makes a big difference.”

http://www.racecar-e.../williams-fw34/



#1049 roadie

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 14:33

I think Gillette sponsor on that place is spot on :D

Posted Image

Would be even more funny if the team were running a 4 element front wing, each with the Gillette branding on!

Edited by roadie, 08 February 2012 - 14:38.


#1050 GlenP

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 14:34

It is interesting how a combination of relatively mundane factors makes the Renault the engine to have - packaging, durability, tuneability, driveability all coming before outright power.