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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#1151 King Six

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:17

:lol: unuglify ...I'm gonna use that. That's funny that Williams would change the entire nosecone/front wing for the filming day, that shows that perhaps for the first time in Formula One history, a filming day was actually used for its expressive purpose and not just another test.

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#1152 jamiegc

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:23

you could kindly explain to me the lack of reason for the absence of VAT?


PDVSA are not a UK company and so are not liable to VAT on the sale.

#1153 Little Leaf

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:25

Ok, apparently that pic is from a filming day. Maybe they decided to unuglify the nose for sponsors?

Best thing about that pic is that Oris sponsorship is still there though smaller.


Oris is only present on the pic from Brazil isn't it? Nowhere to be seen on the filming day pic.

And they are not on the partners page

http://www.williamsf...m/team/partners

They are gone unfortunately

#1154 Francesc

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:30

Oris is only present on the pic from Brazil isn't it? Nowhere to be seen on the filming day pic.

And they are not on the partners page

http://www.williamsf...m/team/partners

They are gone unfortunately


Look at the front wing pillars.
Very strange that they do a filming with a smaller sticker of ORIS on the car when there's no mention of them on the team's page.

#1155 Peter3hg

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:30

you could kindly explain to me the lack of reason for the absence of VAT?


VAT on sponsorship is very complicated, especially as most of the service is "performed" overseas, i.e. at race/testing events. I would have been very surprised if VAT have been charged at a flat 20%. In fact if it had I would have assumed the invoice was fake.

#1156 Clatter

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:30

you could kindly explain to me the lack of reason for the absence of VAT?


Is a sponsorship payment subject to VAT?

#1157 One

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:32

you could kindly explain to me the lack of reason for the absence of VAT?


It could also be that Williams have not PRODUCED anything that they must claim VAT for. Like writing text, you can escape VAT duties if your creation for sales does not need any material investment. Sponsorship perhaps yet another mean to claim money out of your head... ?

But most likely it is because PDVSA is outside the GB VAT area.

#1158 Jambo

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:32

Oris is only present on the pic from Brazil isn't it? Nowhere to be seen on the filming day pic.

And they are not on the partners page

http://www.williamsf...m/team/partners

They are gone unfortunately


Yeah its on the front wing pylon of the filming day pic.

#1159 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:36

Yes. With the kindest will in the world, I dont think anyone is interested enough to steal Williams stationery and forge an invoice...


Welcome to the internet.

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#1160 One

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:39

Welcome to the internet.


look at your logo! :p

#1161 Little Leaf

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:12

Look at the front wing pillars.
Very strange that they do a filming with a smaller sticker of ORIS on the car when there's no mention of them on the team's page.



Yeah its on the front wing pylon of the filming day pic.



Good spot, didn't see that before!

Hopefully they are still with the team then.

#1162 Andy865

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:21

They might just be a timing partner now, as opposed to a direct sponsor? One of the teams announced such a deal recently.

#1163 One

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 14:24

Any ways, if ORIS is rejoining the team that is a good news, isn't it?

#1164 joora

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 15:40

Any ways, if ORIS is rejoining the team that is a good news, isn't it?


Well, it would most definatly be a good news, but I don't see them rejoining. Maybe W had the obligation of having them on the old car, which they were apparently using for filming.
I was hoping the see a large QNB logo somewhere in that pic, but I guess Williams will drive without Quatar support this year.


#1165 showtime

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 16:07

They are filming today at Monteblanco Circuit

#1166 Sanman59

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 16:34

Anyway back to Williams FW34, what do you guys think so far?
The car looks nice and seems reliable but you cant help but notice its been near the bottom of the time sheets so far, i know its early days but still....



I am a bit disappointed, but Senna says that they were not chasing lap times. Also, he says they will be in the midfield pack. Not really good enough for me. I was targeting 5th or 6th best team and it does not really look like it.

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/70185.html

:|

Edited by Sanman59, 13 February 2012 - 16:37.


#1167 GlenP

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 16:55

I am a bit disappointed, but Senna says that they were not chasing lap times. Also, he says they will be in the midfield pack. Not really good enough for me. I was targeting 5th or 6th best team and it does not really look like it.

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/70185.html

:|

5th or 6th best team and mid pack are the same thing.

I'm a die hard Williams fan, but hoping for more than 5th best team would be a stretch. Should be fighting STR, Sauber and FI - hopefully!

#1168 gio66

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 16:57

PDVSA are not a UK company and so are not liable to VAT on the sale.

OK, but IIRC you must write the reason for his absence, unless the English law is different from the rest of Europe.

You must write "VAT excluded by art. no. XXX"

Edited by gio66, 13 February 2012 - 17:14.


#1169 BRG

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 19:46

OK, but IIRC you must write the reason for his absence, unless the English law is different from the rest of Europe.

You must write "VAT excluded by art. no. XXX"

Not in the UK. This is an export service and is zero rated. Also, English law is different from the rest of Europe - we are always the ones out of step!

#1170 gio66

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 21:36

Not in the UK. This is an export service and is zero rated. Also, English law is different from the rest of Europe - we are always the ones out of step!

Thank you BRG, but my question was different.

Edited by gio66, 13 February 2012 - 22:19.


#1171 jamiegc

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 22:25

OK, but IIRC you must write the reason for his absence, unless the English law is different from the rest of Europe.

You must write "VAT excluded by art. no. XXX"


No in the uk you do not need to write the reason for 0 rate vat.

You declare the non-eu sale on your next vat return in a seperate section to Eu sales.

#1172 DanardiF1

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 23:31

I saw those youtube videos of Jerez, and the car looked very good on fast corners (good change of direction, carrying a lot of speed in) and less so on slow ones, kinda like what Windsor said.

But without knowing how much fuel the cars had on, and how used those tyres were we can't take that for a fact.


I think larger improvements in mechanical areas can still be made through learning more about the details of the Renault engine and how it works with their gearbox, driveshafts etc. If they weren't really setting the car up, just getting miles on it, they won't have done too much with ratios, engine maps etc. that could make big differences in performance.

I'm encouraged by this car, it was quick in the right places for me, with the less impressive parts being accountable to the way Williams go about testing their new cars.

#1173 f1fan1998

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 23:56

Does anyone want to see the invoice which has been sent from Williams? I have it if interested....

#1174 Carlo's

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 00:10

Does anyone want to see the invoice which has been sent from Williams? I have it if interested....

Yes, please.


#1175 Pilla

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:09

Does anyone want to see the invoice which has been sent from Williams? I have it if interested....


This one? http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=5521818

#1176 Little Leaf

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:16

5th or 6th best team and mid pack are the same thing.

I'm a die hard Williams fan, but hoping for more than 5th best team would be a stretch. Should be fighting STR, Sauber and FI - hopefully!


Williams need to be looking to beat those teams and get to the front of the midfield.

A good target would be Lotus (same engine) if, as I expect them to, they get in the mix with the Mercedes.

Let's face it it can't be as bad as last year surely

#1177 GlenP

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:22

Williams need to be looking to beat those teams and get to the front of the midfield.

A good target would be Lotus (same engine) if, as I expect them to, they get in the mix with the Mercedes.

Let's face it it can't be as bad as last year surely

Sorry - unrealistic expectations I'm afraid. Not this year.

Nothing could be as bad as last year! But Challenging Mercedes? Get real. Mercedes have got serious resources behind them - they will improve, not slip back, is my prediction. Lotus might be vulnerable, I suppose, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Nope - beat Sauber and STR and I'd be impressed; and looking for another increment for 2013.

#1178 Little Leaf

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:45

Sorry - unrealistic expectations I'm afraid. Not this year.

Nothing could be as bad as last year! But Challenging Mercedes? Get real. Mercedes have got serious resources behind them - they will improve, not slip back, is my prediction. Lotus might be vulnerable, I suppose, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Nope - beat Sauber and STR and I'd be impressed; and looking for another increment for 2013.


What I meant was I expect Lotus to be the next team behind Mercedes, not Williams.

And then Williams should use Lotus as a target, if they can see off the other midfield teams

#1179 GlenP

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:16

What I meant was I expect Lotus to be the next team behind Mercedes, not Williams.

And then Williams should use Lotus as a target, if they can see off the other midfield teams

Oh ok. I do agree that Lotus should manage to keep just behind the top 4.

Trouble is, it takes years to build up the depth to take the challenge further up the grid. It might sound like a modest ambition, but I'd be happy with just mixing it with the 6th, 7th and 8th placed teams.

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#1180 Sevach

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:18

I think larger improvements in mechanical areas can still be made through learning more about the details of the Renault engine and how it works with their gearbox, driveshafts etc. If they weren't really setting the car up, just getting miles on it, they won't have done too much with ratios, engine maps etc. that could make big differences in performance.

I'm encouraged by this car, it was quick in the right places for me, with the less impressive parts being accountable to the way Williams go about testing their new cars.


Although the car didn't seem great at slow corners (it didn't enter the corner as easily, a little unstable on braking) it didn't look like some chronic issue.
So hopefully they can work it out.

#1181 Tract1on

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:40

Well Brawn went from nowhere, right to the front of the grid, unfortunatley i dont imagine that Williams will do the same but you know, they have good facilities, the renault engine is proven to be good unit, so i think they should make a big step forward...
Not quite sure of Mike Coughlan's pedigree, but i dont recall any of the Mclarens from 2002-2007 being dogs, those cars were all mixing it at the sharp end, so you would hope he has designed something thats pretty racey?
Im going to be a glass half full kind of guy and say i hope Williams are at the front of the midfield and nibbling for points much like Force India were last year, i think they may do well at monaco, both drivers seemed to like that track.

#1182 GlenP

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:03

Well Brawn went from nowhere, right to the front of the grid, unfortunatley i dont imagine that Williams will do the same but you know, they have good facilities, the renault engine is proven to be good unit, so i think they should make a big step forward...
Not quite sure of Mike Coughlan's pedigree, but i dont recall any of the Mclarens from 2002-2007 being dogs, those cars were all mixing it at the sharp end, so you would hope he has designed something thats pretty racey?
Im going to be a glass half full kind of guy and say i hope Williams are at the front of the midfield and nibbling for points much like Force India were last year, i think they may do well at monaco, both drivers seemed to like that track.

Brawn didn't come from nowhere! Brawn came from a massive multi-year multi-billion dollar programme starting with BAR and ending as purely Honda.

#1183 Tract1on

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:05

What i meant was the Honda car was a dog in 2008 and then a front runner in 2009 with Brawn......

Brawn didn't come from nowhere! Brawn came from a massive multi-year multi-billion dollar programme starting with BAR and ending as purely Honda.


Edited by Tract1on, 14 February 2012 - 12:06.


#1184 jrg19

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:08

yeah the 08 car was a dog because it was basically abandoned for the 09 car which was a year ahead in its development hence winning 6 of the first 7.

Edited by jrg19, 14 February 2012 - 12:10.


#1185 Tract1on

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:18

Can someone explain to me why everbody these days likes to ****ing argue about the most stupid details... who gives a shit, i mean really? Like some sort of point scoring pissing match.... :rolleyes:

Yes... Honda stopped developing the 2008 car early because it was crap and focus on 2009, lots of teams do this over the years nothing new, id imagine Williams started pretty early on this car when they realised 2010 was going to be a disaster

Back to the important topic, lets discuss Williams climb back to better days!
Bruno seems to have settled very quickly and is right on Pastors pace, that has to be incouraging, i think putting Bottas in the car in Barcelona cant hurt will be interesting to have more data to compare.

yeah the 08 car was a dog because it was basically abandoned for the 09 car which was a year ahead in its development hence winning 6 of the first 7.



#1186 GlenP

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:24

Can someone explain to me why everbody these days likes to ****ing argue about the most stupid details... who gives a shit, i mean really? Like some sort of point scoring pissing match.... :rolleyes:

Yes... Honda stopped developing the 2008 car early because it was crap and focus on 2009, lots of teams do this over the years nothing new, id imagine Williams started pretty early on this car when they realised 2010 was going to be a disaster

Back to the important topic, lets discuss Williams climb back to better days!
Bruno seems to have settled very quickly and is right on Pastors pace, that has to be incouraging, i think putting Bottas in the car in Barcelona cant hurt will be interesting to have more data to compare.

Well I wasn't merely being pedantic (which, I agree, is annoying).

The distinction was well made, in my view, and relevant to the current discussion. It's all very well wishing Williams a great turn-around in fortunes, but fans need to be realistic to avoid a big let-down. The example of Brawn leaping to the front was spurious and wrong - sorry, but that's the fact of it. No need to be defensive.

#1187 Sevach

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:25

This one? http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=5521818


It's amazing that PDVSA pays that much and still didn't get the sidepods (or the title sponsor naming rights), Williams price must be unrealistically high for the current financial times and level of the team.

#1188 tractionman

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:32

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

From the video it appears that corner entry is quick but exit is not aggressive... Could be just Bruno's driving style.


#1189 f1fan1998

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:48

It's amazing that PDVSA pays that much and still didn't get the sidepods (or the title sponsor naming rights), Williams price must be unrealistically high for the current financial times and level of the team.


Yes that one. I have had it for a while, and only just realised that people are talking about it publicly.

#1190 One

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 13:13

Well I wasn't merely being pedantic (which, I agree, is annoying).

The distinction was well made, in my view, and relevant to the current discussion. It's all very well wishing Williams a great turn-around in fortunes, but fans need to be realistic to avoid a big let-down. The example of Brawn leaping to the front was spurious and wrong - sorry, but that's the fact of it. No need to be defensive.


Speaking about fans, I am not sure if Fans Need to be realistic. I think being realistic term pains at some points of this season, but hopes are high... :cool:

I am not too sure how 34 will come out of the garage of Barcelona. Some said that the side pods will look entirely different, which I do have other idea... but say, whenn Williams climb up the ladder, it should go quicker than FI or STR as the team should have this winning mentality.

Wat Senna said was interesting, but more like keeping fans warm, I assume,... It does nto necessarily mean that 34 will suddernly become the winner, vis-a-vis a think that Prof. G will continue to build up sold basis where one one, two or shiny knives will be shown .... hope...

#1191 Sevach

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 13:22

As Bruno said, Barcelona will paint a truer picture, Jerez is a bit like Hungaroring.
A car good in Barcelona is good on most tracks.


#1192 BRG

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 13:54

It's amazing that PDVSA pays that much and still didn't get the sidepods (or the title sponsor naming rights), Williams price must be unrealistically high for the current financial times and level of the team.

What's unrealistic about it? The Venezuelans wouldn't be paying it if it was.

#1193 Sevach

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 20:34

They are paying it because they wanted to provide Maldonado with a seat, not because that's reasonable asking price for the rear wing and (shared)air box on a mid to low grid team.

Doesn't Vodafone pay 60million US dollars for basically the entire Mclaren?

#1194 Little Leaf

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:31

I presume the team doesn't have a title sponsor this year then? Are they the only team not to have one?

#1195 bogi

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:41

I presume the team doesn't have a title sponsor this year then? Are they the only team not to have one?




Maldonado Williams F1 Racing

#1196 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:07

yeah the 08 car was a dog because it was basically abandoned for the 09 car which was a year ahead in its development hence winning 6 of the first 7.

They abandoned the 07 car quite early to concentrate on the 08 car though.

One of the biggest differences was the Mercedes engine - they said it gave them a second a lap straight away. If you look back retrospectively on 2008 with that handicap you can see their 08 car actually wasn't that bad.

#1197 GustavoB

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 15:34

Maldonado Williams F1 Racing

:lol: :lol: :rotfl: :lol: :lol:

#1198 Sevach

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 15:52

I presume the team doesn't have a title sponsor this year then? Are they the only team not to have one?


As far as i know they don't have a "name" for this year like AT&T Williams, Vodafone Mclaren...

And i don't think Sauber has one either (Telmex???) and of course poor HRT.

#1199 One

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 22:54

:lol: :lol: :rotfl: :lol: :lol:


Venezuela Williams F1 team, you mean?

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#1200 BrunoCarneiro

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 02:19

The best time of the weekend was set on a longer stint, he did around 20 laps after it