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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#1251 kenny

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:45

you seem so negative about Senna and Williams, really not sure why?

Because that Turkish dog was his  ;)

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#1252 Siperoth

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:52

People can say whatever they want about Senna but in reality i hardly imagine him driving worse than Rubens. Rubens might have managed to edged Maldonado in points but in reality he got his ass handed to him in terms of speed. Maldonado really was above him in the second half and considering rookies show better in the second season then really Rubens was simply slow.
So i don't see why Williams should keep a slow driver and not take a driver like Senna that gives money and may prove to actually be a lot better than Rubens.
Let's not forget that Senna is an unknown quantity despite having quite a few races in F1. And his unknown quantity because HRT was a joke and Renault went to development hell when he got his seat and also jumping in the middle of the year in an unknown car isn't very indicating as Fisichella shown in 2009.
For all we know Senna may actually be an amazing talent. So why should Williams keep a slow guy that gets older and slower and not take someone with more possibility and good money?
Naive people can laugh about Wurz but that's another right move from the team. Williams is simply using all the people it can use and that's good. No matter how professional or experienced you are you can always learn more from a new person with a different perspective.

Edited by Siperoth, 21 February 2012 - 13:42.


#1253 FordFan

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 14:24

Anyone else starting to get worried about these test times? Testing is just testing, I get that. But Williams have always had a day or two where they're near the top.

Williams don't have their drivers just put laps in. Reliability looks great, but we should be seeing a bit of speed by now.

#1254 tractionman

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 14:25

Looks like long runs again... Even on the softs. Very disciplined approach but maybe at some point they will go for some quick laps.


#1255 tractionman

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 15:01

Quickest time yet for the car at the beginning of................................. another long run which was interrupted by the red flag.

Edited by tractionman, 21 February 2012 - 15:02.


#1256 Sevach

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 15:12

That's good, STR 23,6 is probably quite light given that full they are in the 31's.


#1257 rayburn

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 15:14

Best to ignore the WUM. I also believe that hiring Wurz can only be a good thing.

#1258 highdownforce

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 15:22

Posted Image

Aero testings underway, better not expect better times for today.

Also, some tweaks are visible on the livery.

#1259 joora

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 15:28

Posted Image

Aero testings underway, better not expect better times for today.

Also, some tweaks are visible on the livery.


Is that oris logo on the front wint pillars?


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#1260 Francesc

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 15:29

Anyone else starting to get worried about these test times? Testing is just testing, I get that. But Williams have always had a day or two where they're near the top.

Williams don't have their drivers just put laps in. Reliability looks great, but we should be seeing a bit of speed by now.


New chief operations engineer, approach to testing changed.

#1261 FordFan

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 15:45

Let's hope that's it.

I do find it hard to believe that, in five days of very reliable testing and the most laps done of any team, Williams haven't tested a fuel load/tire combo that the others have. 1.5 seconds to the nearest competitor is alot.

The Merc did an 11 lap stint earlier in the day - the last 8 laps of which quicker than Senna' best.

Worried.

#1262 Sevach

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 15:53

Is that oris logo on the front wint pillars?

Yes.
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#1263 GustavoB

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:56

Anyone else starting to get worried about these test times? Testing is just testing, I get that. But Williams have always had a day or two where they're near the top.

Williams don't have their drivers just put laps in. Reliability looks great, but we should be seeing a bit of speed by now.


worried +1 :(

#1264 One

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 17:05

not too cheered, but at the same time not interested in smoothy showboating testing. No point at all.

#1265 Jambo

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 17:50

The fastest race lap at Barcelona last year was in the 26s. Not too bothered by times so far.

#1266 sheogorath

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 17:56

Seems they removed the heat shielding they added around the exhaust during Jerez.


Must be good feeling you know so much! but yet your opinion differs so much to everyone else, maybe you should learn about Alex Wurz company he runs, to get an idea, you seem so negative about Senna and Williams, really not sure why?

He is a Sergio Perez fanboy. According to him, Perez is the next Schumacher and every driver in the midfield is shit, so I wouldn't take him too seriously anyway.

Williams pairing ater hiring Wurz to mentor them = laughing stock in F1 paddock.


Let me know when Perez stops breaking the car every time he leaves the pits.

#1267 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 18:01

Fortunately what Mastah knows about F1 can be written on the back of a postage stamp.

#1268 Francesc

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 18:04

Renault logo on the engine cover now is bigger than before, and Oris on the front wing pillars.
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#1269 Anderis

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 18:08

Oh c'mon, don't worry about testing times, at least, not yet. If you exclude times from early morning, when the track was very cold, the slowest Senna's stint is faster than the slowest Vettel's and Hamilton's stints. So I guess it's just specific aproach and these times are inconclusive in case of Williams.

#1270 Sevach

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 18:14

I didn't like the small livery change, it's a "less is more" case i guess.
The Jerez airbox was more elegant.

Good that Oris is back, even if very reduced.

Edited by Sevach, 21 February 2012 - 18:14.


#1271 Little Leaf

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 18:29

Summary of today from the team

http://www.williamsf.../news/view/2053

#1272 joora

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 18:39

I didn't like the small livery change, it's a "less is more" case i guess.
The Jerez airbox was more elegant.

Good that Oris is back, even if very reduced.


Yeah, they've messed up the livery a bit, but I like the elegant white line (with the PDVSA logo), best part of the livery (it would be even better without hte logo :) )

But yes, huge renault logo, hope they gave a significantly lower offer for the engines. I guess even Renault isn't immune of Senna name being in a Williams Renault.
Too bad they didn't insist on adding the yellow color, that would be kickass.

I'm hoping that williams will do a few quick laps and show us worryheads that we're wrong!

#1273 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 18:45

Fortunately what Mastah knows about F1 can be written on the back of a postage stamp.


In a very large font

#1274 Anderis

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 18:53

I guess even Renault isn't immune of Senna name being in a Williams Renault.
Too bad they didn't insist on adding the yellow color, that would be kickass.

Soo good that they didn't. Yellow colour would spoil my favourite ever color-scheme! It doesn't match this livery. This livery is so cold and elegant. Yellow would spoil the whole effect. :drunk:

#1275 muramasa

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 18:54

Naive people can laugh about Wurz but that's another right move from the team. Williams is simply using all the people it can use and that's good. No matter how professional or experienced you are you can always learn more from a new person with a different perspective.

Very intriguing move. there was a talk about possibility of driver mentor/coach in F1 a while ago. Was an interesting discussion and looks it should have great possibility, so I'm v interested in what exactly they do, as much as outcome.
Seems Wurz is very special driver, excellent at technical/driving feedback side, if not fastest. wanted by many teams and valued very highly by every team for his technical skill, very unique driver. I remember, especially Nico Rosberg praised him alot when they were teammate at Williams, seemed he was finding great value in Wurz's feedback and advice.



#1276 Little Leaf

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 19:11

Sounds like there's work to do

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97619

#1277 tractionman

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 19:18

Sounds like there's work to do

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97619


Lacking mechanical grip? Probably easier to fix than the aero.

#1278 Francesc

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 19:47

To me it seems a normal thing to have when you're running a different engine.

#1279 race addicted

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 20:56

Do we have laptimes available from a few longer stints today?

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#1280 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 21:16


Williams is one team along with force India i want to do well after Mclaren. This is the problem with two pay drivers. Now the team will not be sure about the exact pace of the car cos a guy like Rubens can be quicker than somebody like a Senna by a second at-least in a brand new car.

Edited by xtremespeedjunkie, 21 February 2012 - 21:16.


#1281 DanardiF1

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 21:19

To me it seems a normal thing to have when you're running a different engine.


Exactly. Where else can you work on differential settings, gearbox settings etc. in conjunction with a new engine other than at the track?

#1282 race addicted

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 21:22

Williams is one team along with force India i want to do well after Mclaren. This is the problem with two pay drivers. Now the team will not be sure about the exact pace of the car cos a guy like Rubens can be quicker than somebody like a Senna by a second at-least in a brand new car.


I agree about wanting Williams and Force India to do well, but I disagree about Barrichello's worth in a box-new car. I don't think he'd wring a second more out of it, than someone with less experience. It's just as much or little, driving a new car, or one that's a season old. Ironing out any bumps comes after testing and working with the engineers. Just for that, Senna and Maldonado aren't automatically any worse than Barrichello, even if he had a reputation for being a so called good development driver.

On being held back by their drivers; Williams know they haven't got the quickest driver with them, but this is a transition year, and at least for '12, Maldonado and Senna will do. And they are necessary for the budget.
The engineers will know that the cars ultimate pace will sometimes be half a second off from what it should or could be, and that of course, can turn out to be painful.

Edited by race addicted, 21 February 2012 - 21:23.


#1283 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 21:26

The engineers will know that the cars ultimate pace will sometimes be half a second off from what it should or could be, and that of course, can turn out to be painful.


And you know how much it costs to find a couple of tenths in a f1 car ? That's my whole point mate :)

Edited by xtremespeedjunkie, 21 February 2012 - 21:27.


#1284 race addicted

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 21:42

And you know how much it costs to find a couple of tenths in a f1 car ? That's my whole point mate :)


I trust Williams have weighed the two against one another.

#1285 FordFan

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 23:10

Do we have laptimes available from a few longer stints today?


An indispensable resourse

Test times

#1286 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 23:13

And you know how much it costs to find a couple of tenths in a f1 car ? That's my whole point mate :)


Since Rubens will never drive the FW34, we have no idea how much slower/faster he would be in it than Pastor or Bruno.

#1287 paulogman

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 23:51

Anyone else starting to get worried about these test times? Testing is just testing, I get that. But Williams have always had a day or two where they're near the top.

Williams don't have their drivers just put laps in. Reliability looks great, but we should be seeing a bit of speed by now.

nope, actually happy to see them pounding around in a low key effort. it means to me that they are confident that they have finances secure and realize the double edged sword that glory runs represent.
keep doing race simulations, comparing real on track data to wind tunnel results. let the drivers get comfortable with the car and how it handles the tyres over a long run.
I see no downside to this. the team needs to work together and understand each other. lots of new people in lots of new places doing new jobs.
testing times are irrelevant in the extreme. the weather conditions are unlike any they will see all season. when they come back to barcelona for the race they will be running much different lap times.
I like that there is no info at all mentioning williams in the report from autosport today.


#1288 Sanman59

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 00:12

Anyone else starting to get worried about these test times? Testing is just testing, I get that. But Williams have always had a day or two where they're near the top.

Williams don't have their drivers just put laps in. Reliability looks great, but we should be seeing a bit of speed by now.


Worried; worried; worried

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97619

Seems that the car is a bit of a dog in slow corners!

:rolleyes: :|

Edited by Sanman59, 22 February 2012 - 00:29.


#1289 joora

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 00:26

Worried; worried; worried

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97619

Seems that the car is a bit of a dog in slow corners!

:rolleyes: :|


Also seems that FI, Toro Rosso and somewhat Sauber are doing better than us. Lotus was good in Jerez, but they broke the car in Barca.

Is the bad performance in slow corners caused by lack of mechanical grip?


#1290 Sanman59

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 00:32

Also seems that FI, Toro Rosso and somewhat Sauber are doing better than us. Lotus was good in Jerez, but they broke the car in Barca.

Is the bad performance in slow corners caused by lack of mechanical grip?


Yes poor mechanical grip. Not easily fixed.

LOOKS LIKE WE ARE STILL IN NINTH PLACE!!!

):

#1291 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:43

Since Rubens will never drive the FW34, we have no idea how much slower/faster he would be in it than Pastor or Bruno.


Rubens even in his sleep would be half a second faster than Senna.

#1292 TheBunk

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:07

Rubens would mentor Wurz about a thing or two.

#1293 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:26

Rubens was never a slow driver. He has been a competitive driver all his life. Now isn't it ridiculous to say Rubens wouldn't be faster than two rank average pay-drivers that too in a brand new car. i mean experience in so many teams and a top team like Ferrari has to count somewhere right . I mean its laughable when people say, he hasn't driven the new car so we would never know.

#1294 Little Leaf

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:46

I think with Pastor having been close enough to Rubens last year they have a good enough reference point for this car. Sure any team would like to have somebody with Rubens' experience to shake down and test a new car, but if he was to produce performances like last year again this season there really is nothing to lose giving Senna a go.

It seems the team are concentrating on setting the car up and understanding the new engine, tyres etc over longer runs. Nothing wrong in that, quite the reverse. Don't forget Williams is the only team with a different engine this year, so there will be a fair amount of data gathering and room for improvement.

I expect Bottas to be pounding round today putting a good few laps in. Reliability has been very good so far, hope I don't curse it.

#1295 Petroltorque

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:57

Rubens was never a slow driver. He has been a competitive driver all his life. Now isn't it ridiculous to say Rubens wouldn't be faster than two rank average pay-drivers that too in a brand new car. i mean experience in so many teams and a top team like Ferrari has to count somewhere right . I mean its laughable when people say, he hasn't driven the new car so we would never know.

Last year Barrichello showed that he is competitive only if the car is good and to make a competitive car requires budget. In any event Senna's seems just as capable at providing accurate feedback. I fully expect the team to get on top of the slow corner stability issues. The readiness of the Barrichello fanboys to be disparaging of the teamis pathetic. Barrichello was past it. They did not renew his contract. Move on!

#1296 Anderis

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:10

Rubens was never a slow driver. He has been a competitive driver all his life. Now isn't it ridiculous to say Rubens wouldn't be faster than two rank average pay-drivers that too in a brand new car. i mean experience in so many teams and a top team like Ferrari has to count somewhere right . I mean its laughable when people say, he hasn't driven the new car so we would never know.

Your statement is laughable and ridiculous. Last year Maldonado outshined Rubens in terms of pace on many ocassions and rarely was about 0,5 secs or more slower than Rubens. And don't forget he was just only rookie, what is more, rookie with little mileage in F1 car before his F1 start (he lost much time during testing due to early poor reliability of FW33). Pastor is going to improve this season, and based on what I have seen last season, he should be at least somewhere near Barrichello in terms of pace.

And I can't believe how much pesimism have Williams fans this season. We were very optimistic every year and now we are over-pesimistic. It's definetely too early to say that we are 9th team, our long runs pace is still very good.
Don't understand why people cares only about best times, ignoring the fact that FW34 has showed decent pace on long runs and it seems that there were no lap-time hunting from Williams yet (no short runs with good times).

#1297 Jambo

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:38

Am still optimistic, am happy with how testing has gone. At the last two tests the fastest lap has been during a longish run. Wait till the car tries to set a time before worrying.

#1298 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:03

Your statement is laughable and ridiculous. Last year Maldonado outshined Rubens in terms of pace on many ocassions and rarely was about 0,5 secs or more slower than Rubens. And don't forget he was just only rookie, what is more, rookie with little mileage in F1 car before his F1 start (he lost much time during testing due to early poor reliability of FW33). Pastor is going to improve this season, and based on what I have seen last season, he should be at least somewhere near Barrichello in terms of pace.

And I can't believe how much pesimism have Williams fans this season. We were very optimistic every year and now we are over-pesimistic. It's definetely too early to say that we are 9th team, our long runs pace is still very good.
Don't understand why people cares only about best times, ignoring the fact that FW34 has showed decent pace on long runs and it seems that there were no lap-time hunting from Williams yet (no short runs with good times).


O.K man , Pastor>>>>>>>>>Rubens happy ?

Pastor the next Schumi and Senna the next Alonso..Happy ?

#1299 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:39

O.K man , Pastor>>>>>>>>>Rubens happy ?

Pastor the next Schumi and Senna the next Alonso..Happy ?


That's your reaction to a well balanced argument? To resort to sarcasm? Nice.

The Hulk got close to Rubens and Pastor got even closer, he now has more experience and isn't coming at this from a standing start. Bruno impressed at times in the Renautus last year and has a good track record in junior formulae. Nobody is claiming they're the second coming, just that Rubens also isn't the second coming.

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#1300 Anderis

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:50

O.K man , Pastor>>>>>>>>>Rubens happy ?

Pastor the next Schumi and Senna the next Alonso..Happy ?

No.

I have just discredited your statement that Rubens would be 0,5 secs, or something faster than Pastor. I didn't claim that it would be just a reverse.

I would even agree that Williams have one of weaker driver pairing on the grid this year. But other drivers available for Williams (Rubens for example) wouldn't be so much better that would make enough difference to compensate those money which Senna brings and gives in addition 0,5 secs, or something like that.