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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#1401 Baddoer

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 16:58

I remember Rubens topping one of the sessions last year. What happened next is a history.

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#1402 Anderis

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 17:05

Pastor Maldonado did a 1:22.391 on super soft tires in a three lap stint. Now we know Pastor is no world beater and as i have been saying all along its not the car which is going to be a limiting factor rather their pay drivers this season for Williams. Now i know it is hypothetical but say an Adrian Sutil would have been comfortably quicker than Maldonado by nearly half a second which would drop the time in to 1:21's . Now that is an extremely competitve time by midfield standards. This is why i said Williams will be the one of teams to surprise as i have said several times only to be let down by their drivers. People are free to disagree with me but the Williams machine this season could have been a really competitive midfield runner in the hands of a genuinely talented driver. I mean imagine Sutil and Barrichello driving this car and imagine the team would been knocking the door of top five teams. Now i know people will come out jumping on this post saying how Williams have the next Hamilton/Alonso pairing on the grid but they are free to think the way they want to. Come the end of the season this very thread will have people saying if only for the drivers Williams could have had its best season in a while.

It seems that you see only three cateogries of drivers:
- One are Maldonado and Senna
- Second are these, who are 0,5 secs faster than Maldonado and Senna
- Third are next Hamiltons and Alonsos.

Don't know from what you have got those 0,5 secs. Maldonado proved, that even with very limited experience he was rarely near 0,5 or more secs slower than Rubens. Maybe Sutil would be a bit quicker than Maldonado overall, but I'm sure it wouldn't be 0,5 secs at average.
And note that not every driver, who isn't 0,5 secs slower than Sutil or Barrichello must be the next Hamilton or Alonso!

And imagine how short of money would Williams be with Sutil and Barrichello. They would have about $50 million less budget, which is likely more than a third of the whole of it! Yeah, Williams would trash everybody with reasonable driver pairing and that budget.

#1403 dau

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 17:09

Pastor Maldonado did a 1:22.391 on super soft tires in a three lap stint. Now we know Pastor is no world beater and as i have been saying all along its not the car which is going to be a limiting factor rather their pay drivers this season for Williams. Now i know it is hypothetical but say an Adrian Sutil would have been comfortably quicker than Maldonado by nearly half a second which would drop the time in to 1:21's . Now that is an extremely competitve time by midfield standards. This is why i said Williams will be the one of teams to surprise as i have said several times only to be let down by their drivers. People are free to disagree with me but the Williams machine this season could have been a really competitive midfield runner in the hands of a genuinely talented driver. I mean imagine Sutil and Barrichello driving this car and imagine the team would been knocking the door of top five teams. Now i know people will come out jumping on this post saying how Williams have the next Hamilton/Alonso pairing on the grid but they are free to think the way they want to. Come the end of the season this very thread will have people saying if only for the drivers Williams could have had its best season in a while.

So if they're slow, it will be just the drivers' fault and if they're fast, it's only because of the car. Which would then be even faster with the right drivers. That sounds reasonable.

Edited by dau, 23 February 2012 - 17:15.


#1404 Francesc

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 17:09

Pastor Maldonado did a 1:22.391 on super soft tires in a three lap stint. Now we know Pastor is no world beater and as i have been saying all along its not the car which is going to be a limiting factor rather their pay drivers this season for Williams. Now i know it is hypothetical but say an Adrian Sutil would have been comfortably quicker than Maldonado by nearly half a second which would drop the time in to 1:21's . Now that is an extremely competitve time by midfield standards. This is why i said Williams will be the one of teams to surprise as i have said several times only to be let down by their drivers. People are free to disagree with me but the Williams machine this season could have been a really competitive midfield runner in the hands of a genuinely talented driver. I mean imagine Sutil and Barrichello driving this car and imagine the team would been knocking the door of top five teams. Now i know people will come out jumping on this post saying how Williams have the next Hamilton/Alonso pairing on the grid but they are free to think the way they want to. Come the end of the season this very thread will have people saying if only for the drivers Williams could have had its best season in a while.


LOL

The season hasn't even started.

#1405 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 17:12

It seems that you see only three cateogries of drivers:
- One are Maldonado and Senna
- Second are these, who are 0,5 secs faster than Maldonado and Senna
- Third are next Hamiltons and Alonsos.

Don't know from what you have got those 0,5 secs. Maldonado proved, that even with very limited experience he was rarely near 0,5 or more secs slower than Rubens. Maybe Sutil would be a bit quicker than Maldonado overall, but I'm sure it wouldn't be 0,5 secs at average.
And note that not every driver, who isn't 0,5 secs slower than Sutil or Barrichello must be the next Hamilton or Alonso!

And imagine how short of money would Williams be with Sutil and Barrichello. They would have about $50 million less budget, which is likely more than a third of the whole of it! Yeah, Williams would trash everybody with reasonable driver pairing and that budget.


Mate i have always maintained its teams like Mclaren Ferrari and Williams which are part of the great legacy of formula 1. I don't know it pains me when i see where they are now compared to where they were in their hay days. Any genuine f1 fan would be rooting for Williams to do well cos it has always been a proper sporting outfit . Now for me i am genuinely excited this year that finally their car is not a dud to begin with and in competitive hands they would have fared much better.

#1406 sheogorath

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 17:18

Out of curiosity, how many of the drivers "0,5 faster than Maldonado" have done 1.21 during the 2012 Barcelona tests?. Please humor me.

I'm keen to see what imaginary driver and team have broken the 1.21 barrier during the testings since looking at the charts of the last 3 days everybody has been floating around 1.22


#1407 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 17:20

Out of curiosity, how many of the drivers "0,5 faster than Maldonado" have done 1.21 during the 2012 Barcelona tests?. Please humor me.

I'm keen to see what imaginary driver and team have broken the 1.21 barrier during the testings since looking at the charts of the last 3 days everybody has been floating around 1.22


Nobody has even attempted a qualifying style 3 lap stint on the Super-Softs imo till date barring Williams. The car has reliabilit and has shown good qualifying pace today and again if only....

Edited by xtremespeedjunkie, 23 February 2012 - 17:21.


#1408 sheogorath

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 17:25

Nobody has even attempted a qualifying style 3 lap stint on the Super-Softs imo till date barring Williams. The car has reliabilit and has shown good qualifying pace today and again if only....


I guess Hulkenberg's and Perez stints on supersoft yesterday didn't happen, then.

#1409 kenny

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 17:27

Nobody has even attempted a qualifying style 3 lap stint on the Super-Softs imo till date barring Williams. The car has reliabilit and has shown good qualifying pace today and again if only....

out of curiosity: how do you know Sutil is 0.5s quicker than Maldonado?

#1410 GustavoB

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 17:31

I guess Hulkenberg's and Perez stints on supersoft yesterday didn't happen, then.


:up: :up: :up:

#1411 FordFan

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 17:54

Thankfully, the car is at least competitive low fuel, soft tire pace.

Looks like a bit behind (1 second or so) on heavy fuel. FI seems very strong.

#1412 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:06

I guess Hulkenberg's and Perez stints on supersoft yesterday didn't happen, then.


nice to see Williams hiring better drivers than Hulkenberg nad Perez :rolleyes:

#1413 sheogorath

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:10

Nice to see how your arguments fall apart :rotfl:

#1414 Sevach

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:16

On full tanks 1.5 slower than the Red Bull and a full second off the Mercedes.


I'm not sure it's quite 1s but it's definitely the better part of a second.

I wonder who would think Rubens is half a second faster than Pastor after last season.
News flash, Maldonado was the only guy who managed to put a Williams in Q3 last year (3 times).
I wonder what Rubens was doing????

Edited by Sevach, 23 February 2012 - 18:20.


#1415 Lord Snooty

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:18

:rotfl:

Gents; its testing.

No one knows what test program, or fuel load or engine mapping or KERS they were running when Pastor set those times any more than we knew in Jerez.

Without knowing the above the times are a bit meaningless, albeit its good fun to see a Williams at the top end of the timing sheets.

Not that this will stop the trolling of course but it is a bit premature to be predicting the course of the team's season....

:drunk:

#1416 ColchesterF1

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:21

:rotfl:

Gents; its testing.

No one knows what test program, or fuel load or engine mapping or KERS they were running when Pastor set those times any more than we knew in Jerez.

Without knowing the above the times are a bit meaningless, albeit its good fun to see a Williams at the top end of the timing sheets.

Not that this will stop the trolling of course but it is a bit premature to be predicting the course of the team's season....

:drunk:


The only thing we do know is,

We'll be enjoying bacon sarnies while keeping an eye on the testing! :up:


#1417 gio66

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:22

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#1418 scarsurfing

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:26

Shaping up as another lost year isn't it?

I'm not daft enough to believe that just because they're not turning up now they'll change their spots when the racing starts.
We read every year how good their car performs pre-season.....then no-where. :confused:


Much better engine this year is the reason why they will be better. :up:

#1419 kenny

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:30

I wonder who would think Rubens is half a second faster than Pastor after last season.
News flash, Maldonado was the only guy who managed to put a Williams in Q3 last year (3 times).
I wonder what Rubens was doing????


how dare you bringing facts into this thread!!
 ;)

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#1420 the9th

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:33

nice to see Williams hiring better drivers than Hulkenberg nad Perez :rolleyes:

I thought Pastor had outqualified Rubens. It must have been close. Which means he's also pretty much even-steven with Jenson... and Lewis! And .3 up on Hulkenberg.
In a few words, if you're not a Brit, Germ or Finn you're a pay driver. That's the rationale. It's called perception. Give the guy a break, it's not like his CV is anywhere as good as Sam Bird's or that of a racing god like Anthony Davidson or Alan Mcnish, but he's a nice guy.


#1421 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:33

nice to see Williams hiring better drivers than Hulkenberg nad Perez :rolleyes:


But you have no answer to what he said after he proved you wrong?

#1422 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:34

[trollpic]


But I'm having fun :cry:


#1423 gio66

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:37

But I'm having fun :cry:

Ignore the incompetent. The forum will earn.

#1424 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:40

But you have no answer to what he said after he proved you wrong?


Nobody proved me wrong cos Force India has looked hte faster machine throughout the testing and Hulkenberg pisses over drivers like Pastor... end of the story

#1425 Sevach

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 18:44

I'm convinced :up:

#1426 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 19:00

Nobody proved me wrong cos Force India has looked hte faster machine throughout the testing and Hulkenberg pisses over drivers like Pastor... end of the story


You said no one had done a three lap run on super softs yet. You were proved wrong.

Now that is the end of that story.

Edit: why does Hulk 'piss' over Pastor? Pastor got closer to Rubens than the Hulk did, he won GP2, just like Hulk did.

As far as I can see Pastor is better...

Edited by wewantourdarbyback, 23 February 2012 - 19:01.


#1427 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 19:03

You said no one had done a three lap run on super softs yet. You were proved wrong.

Now that is the end of that story.

Edit: why does Hulk 'piss' over Pastor? Pastor got closer to Rubens than the Hulk did, he won GP2, just like Hulk did.

As far as I can see Pastor is better...


Why do you think Force India Chose Hulk over Sutil who is a very good driver in his own right. Now i rate Sutil very highly and if Hulk has been chosen by force india for non commercial reason doesn't it say something.

Edit : Let me tell you something as a package of driver plus Car Force India looks faster and you will know in Melbourne when Force India comfortably qualifies ahead of Willliams . As i have said its more to with the driver pairing and less to do with the car itself. No doubt Force India is faster but not as much as the difference will show in Melbourne . Di Resta and Hulk >>> Senna and Pastor. Wanna believe it if you want to and feel free to disagree.

Edited by xtremespeedjunkie, 23 February 2012 - 19:11.


#1428 race addicted

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 19:05

There's really no point in laying your arms in a cross saying the sub 23sec laps from Williams, Force India and Sauber, isn't necessarily a Q-sim. Come on, they were, and any difference in fuel level on those runs must've been minimal. Williams has now shown competitive pace in a Q-sim, and what I'd call encouraging pace in the first stint of a race sim. I think the first stint is the most telling to draw conclusions from, though one has to take tyre compounds into account.

#1429 roadie

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 19:14

My best guess is they were running FP2 or FP3 kind of runs when setting the quick times today. No team has really gone all out yet.

#1430 race addicted

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 19:18

My best guess is they were running FP2 or FP3 kind of runs when setting the quick times today. No team has really gone all out yet.


...that's a Q-sim, just not with the optimized engine-setting/mapping.

#1431 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 19:18

Why do you think Force India Chose Hulk over Sutil who is a very good driver in his own right. Now i rate Sutil very highly and if Hulk has been chosen by force india for non commercial reason doesn't it say something.

Edit : Let me tell you something as a package of driver plus Car Force India looks faster and you will know in Melbourne when Force India comfortably qualifies ahead of Willliams . As i have said its more to with the driver pairing and less to do with the car itself. No doubt Force India is faster but not as much as the difference will show in Melbourne . Di Resta and Hulk >>> Senna and Pastor. Wanna believe it if you want to and feel free to disagree.


Still nothing on the fast laps remark then?

#1432 Tifosi4ever

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 19:32

Why do you think Force India Chose Hulk over Sutil who is a very good driver in his own right. Now i rate Sutil very highly and if Hulk has been chosen by force india for non commercial reason doesn't it say something.

Edit : Let me tell you something as a package of driver plus Car Force India looks faster and you will know in Melbourne when Force India comfortably qualifies ahead of Willliams . As i have said its more to with the driver pairing and less to do with the car itself. No doubt Force India is faster but not as much as the difference will show in Melbourne . Di Resta and Hulk >>> Senna and Pastor. Wanna believe it if you want to and feel free to disagree.


Hulk didn't glass a team owner?

#1433 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 20:26

As i have said its more to with the driver pairing and less to do with the car itself.

So Hamilton and Kimi were rubbish in 09 then? And Alonso must have been awful not to score a point in 01. After all the driver is so much more important than the speed of the car :rolleyes:

Edited by KoezhVukotic, 23 February 2012 - 20:26.


#1434 Tract1on

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 21:11

I wish all the trolls and folks bickering over little insignificant points would **** OFF
Its tiring listening to stupid people all the time...

#1435 FordFan

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 21:36

Some of this back and forth is a bit silly. Pastor is obviously quick. A top driver, perhaps not, but at least the equal of Rubens on pace. Certainly F1 quality. Senna, I'm not so sure.

Alright, my more considered analysis of a promising day.

Low fuel run puts Williams in amongst the pigeons. Not RB maybe, but enough to challenge for Q3, based on what we've seen (with Pastor, anyway).

Got a hint about higher fuel today, as a couple of teams did race sims, and Williams did what look like high fuel runs. Obviously, we don't have full tire compound detail, but Pastor did 3 10-lap runs on high fuel - likely looking at different compounds. On all the runs, lap 7 was in the 1.31.7 range and went up from there, so I'm going to use that for a base. How does that compare to the first stints of RB, Mac, and Merc?

RB - lap 7 (and around there) was about 1.30.2

Mac - lap 7 came in about 131 flat

Merc - around the 131 flat, but a quicker drop-off (which also appeared in a Williams run)


Very preliminary conclusions.

In race trim, Williams 1.5 behind RB, .7 seconds behind Mac and Merc. Which isn't horrible at all at this point in testing.

Force India look a bit ominous. Their runs, if on high fuel, put them level with RB. Sauber's last run was also impressive, if a high fuel run. In that range as well. Ferrari with no high fuel runs, but an 8 lapper with a last lap of 125.5 is damn impressive.

Edited by FordFan, 23 February 2012 - 21:41.


#1436 paulogman

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 23:21

I wish all the trolls and folks bickering over little insignificant points would **** OFF
Its tiring listening to stupid people all the time...

+1
but then there would only be rational interesting posts in here...

#1437 Lord Snooty

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 23:21

Nice news article from today

"Pastor Maldonado says Williams has taken a big step forward"

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97659

#1438 GSF1

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 00:59

Thankfully, the car is at least competitive low fuel, soft tire pace.

Looks like a bit behind (1 second or so) on heavy fuel. FI seems very strong.


Looks strong except it broke down, :rotfl:
Think we look strong, and fast. Has Michael Johnson put some of his DNA in that car already

#1439 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:17

I wish all the trolls and folks bickering over little insignificant points would **** OFF
Its tiring listening to stupid people all the time...


Door is on the right side

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#1440 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:20

+1
but then there would only be rational interesting posts in here...


We are so privileged to have technically acclaimed posters like you. Without you this forum would not have survived. You can follow your friend through the door which i just posted is on the right side ;) . This forum is not for genuine top quality, technically gifted outstanding posters like you . You are better off at a place where people give you your due for your outstanding technical acumen.

Edited by xtremespeedjunkie, 24 February 2012 - 04:23.


#1441 gio66

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 05:55

Door is on the right side

incompetent and ignorant.

#1442 xtremespeedjunkie

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 05:59

incompetent and ignorant.


Yup you define yourself pretty well

#1443 Francesc

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:11

Guys, have you seen Maldonado's race sim? I'm impressed. :eek: :up:

#1444 Peter3hg

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:15

Guys, have you seen Maldonado's race sim? I'm impressed. :eek: :up:


He seems to suffer a large drop off initally but them settle down to a nice consistent pace.

Do we know if the sim started on lap 18 or earlier?

#1445 Francesc

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:16

He seems to suffer a large drop off initally but them settle down to a nice consistent pace.

Do we know if the sim started on lap 18 or earlier?


It started on his very first stint of the day.

#1446 Lord Snooty

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:55

It started on his very first stint of the day.



That was my thought.. good 70 laps today so far

:up:



#1447 Peter3hg

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:59

It started on his very first stint of the day.


That first stint was odd though, he didn't actually get up to any kind of speed for the first 3/4 laps of it. Perhaps to simulate warm up/parade laps?

#1448 GSF1

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:01

sorry fellas Friday night here in Melbourne, am i seeing what i am seeing, would this be one of the most reliable cars I have ever seem in testing, no issues and pumping out the laps, and half decent times too boot. Amazing progress from a team that was so lost and confused at the end of last year

#1449 Mastah

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:04

New deal with Oris:

http://www.williamsf.../news/view/2058

#1450 joora

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:10

New deal with Oris:

http://www.williamsf.../news/view/2058


Great news, now let's see some more sponsors!