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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#1851 DanardiF1

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:09

I hope that pastor won't change his driving style.His aggressive driving today kept me at the edge of my seat for most of the race. I think f1 needs more drivers like him and less drivers who are reserved and calculated. One might say they have the smarter approach to racing, but it is more boring from my point of view


Drivers like Pastor who know nothing other than 100% attack look a lot worse in bad cars like the FW33. They can't tone down what they do, and it ends up being messy. The new car is a lot better and he is revelling in that, because he's not trying to do some truncated version of his driving style to keep the car going, he can just drive.

It majorly sucked that he dumped it so late in the race, and I think he's lying when he said he wasn't aiming for Alonso, because he was, and there should be no shame in that. He had a real chance to get that Ferrari. Thoroughly impressed with Pastor today. Still not his biggest fan as he shows an inclination to use his car as a weapon, which is plain wrong. But if he keeps performing like this he'll go a long way to improving his standing with me.

Looking forward to seeing a better weekend from Bruno as well. Had similar pace to Pastor all weekend, but things conspired against him on Saturday, and then he was beaten up by everyone in the race.

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#1852 garoidb

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:29

Nice double DNF for Williams. :rotfl: Maldonado is quick but isn't aware of the 'bigger picture.' 6th place points were in the bag today and would have been a huge morale booster for the opening round of 2012. Would have gone into Malaysia not only with the knowledge that the car is fast, but with the pressure of scoring the first points of the year already put to bed. Nice going!!


Yup. On the BBC, EJ and Coulthard seemed to agree that he should have banked the points rather than take risks trying to get Alonso. I would agree (even before hindsight). That was a Monza 2009 level error.

Edited by garoidb, 19 March 2012 - 00:30.


#1853 travbrad

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:51

Im happy to have witnessed that as well, but lets not forget at that time one Lotus qualified P18 and was still making its way ahead, 2 quick mercedes cars got various problems and Grosjean, in the other Lotus, was out. Then the Ferrari is not gonna have tyre eating problems all season.

The car is great but opportunities like today need to be cashed in, as they are not gonna happen each and every race. Maldona was impressive but Senna was not. And I blame the pitwall for not coaching Maldonado better.

Lets keep fingers crossed for next week, a real track to test the FW34 better.


Indeed some very good points you make there. Australia is always a bit of chaotic race being the first of the season and usually has a lot more attrition than is typical throughout the rest of the season. It's also not the most representative track as you alluded to. A wide fast Tilke track in the heat of Malaysia doesn't have a whole lot in common with Melbourne.

On the other hand, Williams probably looked more competitive in this race than they EVER did last year, so from that perspective it's a big step forward even if they aren't quite as competitive in future races.

Edited by travbrad, 19 March 2012 - 00:52.


#1854 paulogman

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 00:59

nice start for williams pace wise from maldonado. he was up with and passing grojean. harassing alonso late in the race and was looking possible for the pass. terrible to throw it away on the final lap though. bad mistake.
was ahead of rosberg, not sure, was that on pace or did rosberg have trouble somewhere?
force india didn't show up in the fight, but they should be up there too.
sauber blew it in quali.
williams need to get at least one car into q3 again or if not at least be 11 and 12 on the grid with fresh tyres to start the race.

#1855 Disgrace

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:16

nice start for williams pace wise from maldonado. he was up with and passing grojean. harassing alonso late in the race and was looking possible for the pass. terrible to throw it away on the final lap though. bad mistake.
was ahead of rosberg, not sure, was that on pace or did rosberg have trouble somewhere?
force india didn't show up in the fight, but they should be up there too.
sauber blew it in quali.

williams need to get at least one car into q3 again or if not at least be 11 and 12 on the grid with fresh tyres to start the race.


This is Williams' problem. So many teams have made good cars, and a lot of them fell by the wayside in Melbourne. If the Lotuses and Mercedes' both finish in Malaysia, as well as the odd Force India they might find themselves outside of the points. Pastor's mistake could be massively costly, but if the car is good enough then the team will actually be able to capitalise on others' misfortune again or simply be ahead, neither of which were possible last year.

#1856 Jambo

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:44

Haven't been at my computer since the race but overall:

Obviously disappointed but yet absolutely encouraged. This car should score us good points. Main points of encouragement other than the pace shown being how well the tyres lasted.

Pastor drove a great race providing lots of entertainment until the end and Senna was plain unlucky.

Roll on Sepang :)

#1857 ViMaMo

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:12

Glad to see williams finally sort their car out. Should they concentrate on consolidating as many points as possible early on in the season or just go for glory?

#1858 Sevach

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:55

This is Williams' problem. So many teams have made good cars, and a lot of them fell by the wayside in Melbourne. If the Lotuses and Mercedes' both finish in Malaysia, as well as the odd Force India they might find themselves outside of the points. Pastor's mistake could be massively costly, but if the car is good enough then the team will actually be able to capitalise on others' misfortune again or simply be ahead, neither of which were possible last year.


We have to wait and see, the Williams had brilliant race pace, faster than Rosberg's Merc, touch and go with Kimi's Lotus.
Will they be as good everywhere? i don't know yet, but it's far from certain that those teams will perform significantly better in the next few races.

#1859 Little Leaf

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:40

Well, that was disappointing. In terms of points scored I mean, pace was a huge step forward over last year. Somebody please tell me that this won't be like last year when Rubens lapped quickly only for the season to fall apart.

Some things I noticed watching the race:

1. There was more TV airtime for Pastor in this race than for the team in the whole of last season
2. Car looked very good, shame Senna didn't get a clean race.
3. Ben Edwards (BBC) seems to be a Williams fan, you could tell he was disappointed when Pastor dumped it. Always thought he was a great commentator, like him even more now!
4. Was gutted that Pastor didn't settle for 8 points but that's the way it goes.
5. Reliability was again very good. No problems that I know of????

This performance must give the guys back at the factory so much confidence in the new team that they are heading in the right direction.

So how are we looking for Malaysia? Will the car be as good there?

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#1860 Petroltorque

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:49

Having watched Maldonado's accident, you'd have to say it was a minor miscalculation. He didn't even crest the curb but just touched it. That destabilised the car. I've got no doubt he was going to take Alonso's place. Alonso admitted that he was mightily relieved when Maldonado went off. Now onto the wide expanse of Sepang. Williams will be quick there as well.

#1861 Little Leaf

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:00

Having watched Maldonado's accident, you'd have to say it was a minor miscalculation. He didn't even crest the curb but just touched it. That destabilised the car. I've got no doubt he was going to take Alonso's place. Alonso admitted that he was mightily relieved when Maldonado went off. Now onto the wide expanse of Sepang. Williams will be quick there as well.


That's what I thought, didn't look like much of a mistake.

I hope you are right on Malaysia, and the rest of the season.

#1862 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:18

Reading Pastor's comments it seems he had given up and the mistake was only minor so it might be unfair to criticise him for pushing to hard.

Sepang should suit the team, the pace in high speed corners has been good, ideal for the sweeping turns of Malaysia, and the 34 is easy on her tyres which should be an advantage.

#1863 Peat

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:34

Can't understand why anyone would be 'impressed' by Maldonado.

The car is good, he messed it up, BADLY.

He had the coming together with Grosjean, almost lost his nose several times by out-braking himself into turn 3 and then stuffs it into the wall on the last lap from a handy position.

He's shrugged it, showing scant disregard for the fact that he cost Williams some sitting points that will be much harder to come by as the Merc's Force India's, Lotus's will get thier acts together.

Its the same disregard he showed to yellow flags at Monaco in FR3.5 which cost a marshall use of his legs. The guy's a thug with the backing of rich thug. He has no place on a Formula One grid.

#1864 Little Leaf

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:37

Can't understand why anyone would be 'impressed' by Maldonado.

The car is good, he messed it up, BADLY.

He had the coming together with Grosjean, almost lost his nose several times by out-braking himself into turn 3 and then stuffs it into the wall on the last lap from a handy position.

He's shrugged it, showing scant disregard for the fact that he cost Williams some sitting points that will be much harder to come by as the Merc's Force India's, Lotus's will get thier acts together.

Its the same disregard he showed to yellow flags at Monaco in FR3.5 which cost a marshall use of his legs. The guy's a thug with the backing of rich thug. He has no place on a Formula One grid.


So let me get this straight.

Are you a fan or not?

#1865 Little Leaf

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:49

Pastor seems confident, but he is right they need to get some points on the board.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/98189

Anybody else got the iPredicor from Williams? Doesn't cost anything

#1866 bub

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:51

Can't understand why anyone would be 'impressed' by Maldonado.

The car is good, he messed it up, BADLY.

He had the coming together with Grosjean, almost lost his nose several times by out-braking himself into turn 3 and then stuffs it into the wall on the last lap from a handy position.

He's shrugged it, showing scant disregard for the fact that he cost Williams some sitting points that will be much harder to come by as the Merc's Force India's, Lotus's will get thier acts together.

Its the same disregard he showed to yellow flags at Monaco in FR3.5 which cost a marshall use of his legs. The guy's a thug with the backing of rich thug. He has no place on a Formula One grid.


Even you have to admit he was impressive up till that final mistake.


#1867 Petroltorque

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:19

Drivers like Pastor who know nothing other than 100% attack look a lot worse in bad cars like the FW33. They can't tone down what they do, and it ends up being messy. The new car is a lot better and he is revelling in that, because he's not trying to do some truncated version of his driving style to keep the car going, he can just drive.

It majorly sucked that he dumped it so late in the race, and I think he's lying when he said he wasn't aiming for Alonso, because he was, and there should be no shame in that. He had a real chance to get that Ferrari. Thoroughly impressed with Pastor today. Still not his biggest fan as he shows an inclination to use his car as a weapon, which is plain wrong. But if he keeps performing like this he'll go a long way to improving his standing with me.

Looking forward to seeing a better weekend from Bruno as well. Had similar pace to Pastor all weekend, but things conspired against him on Saturday, and then he was beaten up by everyone in the race.

Precisely. I thought he had his mind set on 5th. I think it was 3 or 4 corners preceeding the accident, he almost collided with the rear of Alonso's car as he was so slow exciting the corner. From that moment I think he had made his mind up to get the run on Alonso.

#1868 Peat

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:22

He qualified very well, but his move on Grosjean on lap 2 was messy. He never got fully alongside until Grosjean realised the loon was lunging him and tried to get the hell out of the way.

I don't think he's any better than Senna when it comes to messy races and crappy racecraft.

#1869 Slowinfastout

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:28

Just gonna chip in to give the thumb up to Mike Coughlan :up:

Don't see his name mentioned often, and it's no one-man effort, but I think it's fair to say he has delivered a car that exceed all expectations.

#1870 Francesc

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:29

Even you have to admit he was impressive up till that final mistake.


Not so impressive. It seems people forget or didnt see his off-track excursion on lap 5 costing him 6 seconds and two places.

Edited by Francesc, 19 March 2012 - 12:30.


#1871 F1ultimate

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:33

Congrats to Williams for finally being relevant again. Maldonado was a clear testament to a big leap forward for the team. All that needs to be done now is to keep his head sharp and make sure that the team scores points! Regardless of how quick a car might be, points are what count so let's hope Maldonado won't be too frantic going forward.

#1872 dau

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:44

[...]
Its the same disregard he showed to yellow flags at Monaco in FR3.5 which cost a marshall use of his legs. The guy's a thug with the backing of rich thug. He has no place on a Formula One grid.

That's a bit offtopic, but: Source for that? I thought he was expected to recover back when that happened? Didn't hear anything since then.

(I'd also disagree with the "thug" part. Lots of drivers have ignored yellow flags before, it just doesn't usually lead to notable accidents.)

#1873 mmmcurry

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:50

(I'd also disagree with the "thug" part. Lots of drivers have ignored yellow flags before, it just doesn't usually lead to notable accidents.)


The only case I can remember is the double waved flags in Brazil in 2003 (I think), when Alonso collected Webbers Jag. I'm sure there are more than just that one though.

Back on topic I was happy with 6th until Maldonado put it in the wall.

Steve.


#1874 Anderis

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 13:02

Nice double DNF for Williams. :rotfl: Maldonado is quick but isn't aware of the 'bigger picture.' 6th place points were in the bag today and would have been a huge morale booster for the opening round of 2012. Would have gone into Malaysia not only with the knowledge that the car is fast, but with the pressure of scoring the first points of the year already put to bed. Nice going!!

Apparently, they wanted to repeat Barrichello's performance from Melbourne last year. But in fact, Maldonado didn't really deliver. Although repeated Rubens by going too wide on one of the first laps and then ended his chances of scoring points due to crash, he went into Q3 in qualifying instead of ending his Q2 in gravel.

Edited by Anderis, 19 March 2012 - 13:05.


#1875 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 13:13

Great car - average drivers. If Williams had signed Raikkonen or kept Barrichello they'd be challenging for podiums IMO.

#1876 jason1989

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 13:13

Great to see the team back at the front of the mid field. I'm not a Williams fan, but do like to see them do well. I'd like to get the opinion of the hard core fans. Do you guys agree with Maldonado's opinion that Williams could challenge McLaren and Red Bull?

#1877 Francesc

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 13:20

Great car - average drivers. If Williams had signed Raikkonen or kept Barrichello they'd be challenging for podiums IMO.


If that had happened Williams the car wouldn't be so fast as the team wouldn't have the money to develop it.

Great to see the team back at the front of the mid field. I'm not a Williams fan, but do like to see them do well. I'd like to get the opinion of the hard core fans. Do you guys agree with Maldonado's opinion that Williams could challenge McLaren and Red Bull?


He didn't say, he said that they aren't too far from them. But let's see how it goes at Sepang before a final verdict on car's pace can be made.

#1878 GlenP

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 13:50

I don't hold with the dismissal of Maldonado - he was in the running for driver of the race until he dropped it. Such a shame - obviously an error, and obviously (to me at least) he was trying to spook Alonso off the road with his worn tyres.

Car is very encouraging - better than I thought, especially given that Melbourne shouldn't have suited a car with supposed traction issues.

The ability to develop over a season is a worry, purely for resource reasons, but let's hope they can get some points accumulated before they start worrying too much about that.

#1879 WhiteBlue

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 13:51

The car seems to be on P5 of the pecking order ahead of Ferrari and behind McLaren, Red Bull, Lotus and Mercedes. Well done Mike Caughlan and his team! The Renault engine seems to help as well.

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#1880 artista

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 14:37

I hope that pastor won't change his driving style.His aggressive driving today kept me at the edge of my seat for most of the race. I think f1 needs more drivers like him and less drivers who are reserved and calculated. One might say they have the smarter approach to racing, but it is more boring from my point of view

I have to disagree there.

Yes, it's great that the guy doesn't give up, that should stay. But he is not the driver you want to have side-by-side or just behind you during a race (and I'm not saying he plays dirty while driving, does things on purpose, or anything like that). That must change, he's already been extremely lucky in the past, coming out unscathed of really nasty accidents. Someday he, or somebody he is racing, could run out of luck.

#1881 FordFan

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 15:05

I'm in the "fast is better than safe" category - especially given where Williams have been.

What would have made you feel better, Ruben's cautiously touring around and collecting 10th, or Pastor's almost 6th? Gutted, but at least Williams can mix it up this year.

#1882 Little Leaf

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 15:29

I'm in the "fast is better than safe" category - especially given where Williams have been.

What would have made you feel better, Ruben's cautiously touring around and collecting 10th, or Pastor's almost 6th? Gutted, but at least Williams can mix it up this year.


One thing is for sure, with Maldo and Senna this season won't be boring for Williams fans

Fasten your seatbelts...

#1883 Petroltorque

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 15:40

I have to disagree there.

Yes, it's great that the guy doesn't give up, that should stay. But he is not the driver you want to have side-by-side or just behind you during a race (and I'm not saying he plays dirty while driving, does things on purpose, or anything like that). That must change, he's already been extremely lucky in the past, coming out unscathed of really nasty accidents. Someday he, or somebody he is racing, could run out of luck.

Mate I'm sure you're old enough to remember the late GREAT Ayrton Senna. I can remeber his first win in Estoril and I can assure you not many drivers wanted to see him behind or side by side with them. At Monte Carlo drivers would literally jump out of the way when they saw a glimpse of that yellow helmet. I'm not suggesting that Maldonado has ascended to that Pantheon of greatness, but the willingness to mix it wheel to wheel is what racing is all about.

#1884 Mithrandir

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 17:28

"...if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing..."
Ayrton Senna

RG left the door open, Maldonado just did what was natural, he went for the pass.
Not the cleanest of passes, but RG should have lifted, once PM was clearly ahead of him.
I mean...his right-front wheel collided with PM's left-rear and it's the latter's fault? Come on!
This is racing.

Edited by Mithrandir, 19 March 2012 - 17:29.


#1885 pingu666

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 21:44

I like paster, didnt like his move on RG, but... hes got fire in the belly :)


#1886 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 22:19

And a nose in the wall. Pretty inexcusable when in such a good position. The guy's got pace but currently a liability. Hopefully for Williams and him he corrects his ways rather than go the way of Massa and lose the pace to boot.

#1887 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 22:21

"...if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing..."
Ayrton Senna

RG left the door open, Maldonado just did what was natural, he went for the pass.
Not the cleanest of passes, but RG should have lifted, once PM was clearly ahead of him.
I mean...his right-front wheel collided with PM's left-rear and it's the latter's fault? Come on!
This is racing.


My ****ing word, quite possibly the dumbest racing related oxymoron I've witnessed on this forum. Welcome :wave:



#1888 Clatter

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 22:45

"...if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing..."
Ayrton Senna

RG left the door open, Maldonado just did what was natural, he went for the pass.
Not the cleanest of passes, but RG should have lifted, once PM was clearly ahead of him.
I mean...his right-front wheel collided with PM's left-rear and it's the latter's fault? Come on!
This is racing.


To right it was. It's the overtakers responsibility to ensure he is past before trying to occupy the same piece of track. RG left him plenty of room and PM still failed to make a clean pass.

#1889 PayasYouRace

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 22:47

Pastor was alongside at the apex. The collision was Romain's fault, if anyone's.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 19 March 2012 - 22:56.


#1890 Little Leaf

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:50

Pastor was alongside at the apex. The collision was Romain's fault, if anyone's.


Exactly, don't see how Pastor can be blamed for that one, as much as some people would like to pin it on him.

It was unfortunate as Romain was having a good weekend, hopefully he can prodce similar this weekend (behind Williams of course!)

#1891 Slowinfastout

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:46

IMO Grosjean didn't have enough time to back off on that one, Maldonado did a Massa meaning he expected the Lotus to magically disappear out of the way after the apex..

http://www.dailymoti...n-accident_auto

I don't think it's a dirty move as such, just a lack of racecraft.

#1892 roadie

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:04

I believe he should have left a cars width on the exit of the corner. Running guys off the road or having a collision whilst passing isn't on in my book.

#1893 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:11

The car seems to be on P5 of the pecking order ahead of Ferrari and behind McLaren, Red Bull, Lotus and Mercedes. Well done Mike Caughlan and his team! The Renault engine seems to help as well.

I agree on qualifying pace, but on race pace I think they're even faster than that. They're arguably the third fastest team!

#1894 Little Leaf

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:16

I believe he should have left a cars width on the exit of the corner. Running guys off the road or having a collision whilst passing isn't on in my book.


Agreed, but I don't think he did it on purpose, just he couldn't quite make the corner having braked late.

I can see him being blamed for a lack of judgement maybe, but if a driver shouldn't go for a gap unless 100% sure they won't run a bit wide then we wouldn't see many moves unless DRS assisted

#1895 Vickyy

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:27

I agree on qualifying pace, but on race pace I think they're even faster than that. They're arguably the third fastest team!

Funny to see so many teams at 3rd place, Williams, Sauber, Lotus, Mercedes. I will wait for Sepang (of course, if its dry) to effectively interpret the pecking order.


#1896 GlenP

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:48

I don't understand the vitriol against PM - he passed Grosjean in a great aggressive move and was more than far enough ahead mid-corner to call the track his own to the exit. It's not like he bundled RG off the racing line in the corner entry and braking zone. A good hard but fair move if you ask me, and exactly what I want to see.

The last lap blunder was much more difficult to forgive - but mistakes happen. If he makes unforced errors all the time then I'd be worried, but I actually think he is a pretty decent driver.

I'm already hoping Williams have a good development path ahead, because they could really be the best-of-the-rest team and finish up 6th. I can't see them beating Lotus though, not this year, and the big 4 are way ahead.

Edited by GlenP, 20 March 2012 - 12:50.


#1897 GlenP

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:50

I agree on qualifying pace, but on race pace I think they're even faster than that. They're arguably the third fastest team!

I wouldn't get too carried away! Ferrari will be solidly top 3 again in a few races, at least with Fernando's car! Mac, RBR and Merc have got too much too.

#1898 Francesc

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 13:24

I wouldn't get too carried away! Ferrari will be solidly top 3 again in a few races, at least with Fernando's car! Mac, RBR and Merc have got too much too.


Too much what? I guess you mean money because Mercedes race pace is not any better than Williams, in fact it's half a second off.

#1899 GlenP

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 14:04

Too much what? I guess you mean money because Mercedes race pace is not any better than Williams, in fact it's half a second off.

Yea money. Depth of the team etc.

I'm the biggest Williams fan - but the landscape in F1 does not shift that quick, no matter what we wish for.

Williams are going in the right direction - I'm happy.

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#1900 chrisj

chrisj
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  • 578 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 20 March 2012 - 16:21

Never been a Williams fan, but that was an amazing turnaround compared to the last few years. Just makes me wonder how much better they could do with a couple of good drivers.