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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#2351 Meanbeakin

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:22

Bruno lost the back end a bit on the 2nd last turn, not sure it cost him a shot at Q3 though.

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#2352 Boing 2

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:53

Not great positions but at least Maldonado saved a set of tyres.

#2353 DESCHAIN

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 13:31

Brazilian TV pointed out that Bruno Senna has finished the first 3 races of the 2012 season in the same position that Ayrton finished his first three races of his first season on F1 with Toleman (a car that sported white, blue and red colors on its livery), and that A. Senna also had a Venezuelan team-mate in 1984.

#2354 Ferrim

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 14:12

Which is basically wrong as Ayrton retired from his first race.

#2355 tractionman

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 14:13

Bruno lost the back end a bit on the 2nd last turn, not sure it cost him a shot at Q3 though.


Looking at the sector times, it was at most a tenth.

#2356 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 14:21

Brazilian TV pointed out that Bruno Senna has finished the first 3 races of the 2012 season in the same position that Ayrton finished his first three races of his first season on F1 with Toleman (a car that sported white, blue and red colors on its livery), and that A. Senna also had a Venezuelan team-mate in 1984.


Ayrton 1984: Ret 6 6
Bruno 2012: Ret (but classified 16) 6 7

No.

#2357 DESCHAIN

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 14:27

Which is basically wrong as Ayrton retired from his first race.

Didn't B. Senna retired in Melbourne?

Edit: A. Senna finished his third race in 7th, but someone was disqualified hence why he got 6th.

Ok on the 16th place.

Edited by DESCHAIN, 21 April 2012 - 14:29.


#2358 GustavoB

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 17:47

I think that these coincidences are created by the necessity of having a new brazilian hero in F1. Bruno ran a year in Hispania and a half season at Lotus so all this comparisons are totally wrong.
They did the same shit when Senna died and tried in Rubens to have a new hero, but of course they failed miserably. I tough that they have learned because they stayed calm with Felipe but all this crap is returning with Bruno. :evil:

#2359 Sevach

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 19:36

It's absolute crap, they come and say "we are not trying to compare or anything... but look at this!!!!".
If you are not trying to compare, how about you stop making comparisons? would that work?

Globo makes me sick...


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#2360 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 20:09

Bruno deserves a chance to forge his own name, his performances so far this season have been good. I for one will be ignoring any kind of comparison to his Uncle.

#2361 tractionman

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 21:58

From reports on twitter, it would appear that footage of Senna's "mistake" is from an earlier lap and not his quickest one. The one lap pace is just awful and Williams needs to improve the DRS soon since Race pace alone cannot get them into the points every single time.

#2362 Disgrace

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 01:17

Superior race pace has already scored a massive amount of points compared to last year and it is what will count in the end. I think they're still in with a shout of points tomorrow. Superior qualifying pace and superior strategies go out of the window with a single botched wheel at a pitstop. Race pace allows Williams to capitalise on this, which was desperately lacking last year when they'd score nil points in high-attrition races.

Reliability is a bit of question mark, however.

Edited by Disgrace, 22 April 2012 - 01:18.


#2363 gio66

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:52

I think they're still in with a shout of points tomorrow.

Very hard.
If they score points today it's going to be luck.

#2364 Hans V

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:43

I believe the car's absolute pace doesn't quite come through due to the drivers. They are between 0.5 to 1.0 sec off the Hamiltons and Vettels in qualifying. Due to raw pace and experience/skills in setting up the car. I believe Kimi easily would have put the FW34 in Q3 every time.

In the race everybody has to calm down a bit to manage the tyres and since the Williams is easy on the tyres the drivers becomes a smaller part of the performance equation - and hence, the underperforming driver means less.

I do, however, believe Senna is quite promising, but need an experienced teammate he can learn from, like Hill gained a lot from Prost. As for Maldonado, I think he's neither have the raw pace nor the intelligence to become much better than he is.

#2365 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:10

I believe the car's absolute pace doesn't quite come through due to the drivers. They are between 0.5 to 1.0 sec off the Hamiltons and Vettels in qualifying. Due to raw pace and experience/skills in setting up the car. I believe Kimi easily would have put the FW34 in Q3 every time.

In the race everybody has to calm down a bit to manage the tyres and since the Williams is easy on the tyres the drivers becomes a smaller part of the performance equation - and hence, the underperforming driver means less.

I do, however, believe Senna is quite promising, but need an experienced teammate he can learn from, like Hill gained a lot from Prost. As for Maldonado, I think he's neither have the raw pace nor the intelligence to become much better than he is.

Maldonado certainly does have the pace, he got the FW33 into Q3 last year and showed good speed in races too. This car just isn't as focused on qualifying as last year's and the field is also very tight which doesn't help

#2366 Anderis

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:30

I believe the car's absolute pace doesn't quite come through due to the drivers. They are between 0.5 to 1.0 sec off the Hamiltons and Vettels in qualifying. Due to raw pace and experience/skills in setting up the car. I believe Kimi easily would have put the FW34 in Q3 every time.

Maybe I would believe in this statement if not the fact that Kimi missed Q3 in half of qualifying sessions this season having car that was easily able to make Q3 every time in the hands of Grosjean, who I think isn't a top F1 driver, at least not yet, with his limited experience.

And if somebody would be able to go between 0.5 to 1 secs faster than the current drivers in Williams, it would mean that this car is the best car in the field with some margin. So why these drivers won't sign a contract with Williams and start winning almost every quali session and every race? They don't won't to win?

And Maldonado showed better raw pace than Barrichello last year. Made Q3 three times, while Barrichello 0 times. His race performance at Monaco and Spa weren't any worse than any of Rubens' performances last season IMO. If not his very limited experience (even for a rookie he hadn't much testing before his first race in F1), he could beat Rubens convincingly. Considering the fact, where Rubens was comparing to Button and where Button is now comparing to Hamilton, there is absolutely no point to claim that Pastor is lacking raw pace.
And Senna is very praised for his feedback and so was he before he joined Williams.

I'm fed up with this bullshit.

#2367 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:01

And Senna is very praised for his feedback and so was he before he joined Williams.

I'm fed up with this bullshit.

Plus Senna has also shown he has the speed at Spa and Brazil last year when he had two great qualifying performances. Some people are just haters

#2368 oscy23

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 11:14

I believe the car's absolute pace doesn't quite come through due to the drivers. They are between 0.5 to 1.0 sec off the Hamiltons and Vettels in qualifying. Due to raw pace and experience/skills in setting up the car. I believe Kimi easily would have put the FW34 in Q3 every time.

In the race everybody has to calm down a bit to manage the tyres and since the Williams is easy on the tyres the drivers becomes a smaller part of the performance equation - and hence, the underperforming driver means less.

I do, however, believe Senna is quite promising, but need an experienced teammate he can learn from, like Hill gained a lot from Prost. As for Maldonado, I think he's neither have the raw pace nor the intelligence to become much better than he is.



Haters gonna hate!


#2369 Sevach

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 13:57

Maldonado was doing good until his problem, Senna was just irrelevant today, getting overtaken left and right.

#2370 gio66

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:16

Senna was just irrelevant today, getting overtaken left and right.

brakes problem since the first third of the race.

#2371 GustavoB

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:58

I got drunk yesterday night, wake up late today and missed the race. :drunk:
What happened to Maldo and Bruno??

thanks!!

#2372 Sevach

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:08

brakes problem since the first third of the race.


I didn't know, it was an weird performance.

Bruno was slow with his problems, Maldonado was looking competitive (and feisty) but had a puncture that ended his race.

#2373 Sergino

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:28

brakes problem since the first third of the race.


interesingly enough he set 11th fastest lap on lap 51 out of 57....his brake problems impacted him only on the last few laps...they just were not there during most of the race...

Edited by Sergino, 22 April 2012 - 16:28.


#2374 joora

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:42

Another good performance from Pastor, he was looking to go into points before the tyre puncture. Passing left and right constantly fighting. Too bad he's been unlucky too many times this season.

Totally underwhelming from Senna today.

Hope the team will up their qualy performance. Race pace is there.

#2375 gio66

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 16:55

interesingly enough he set 11th fastest lap on lap 51 out of 57....his brake problems impacted him only on the last few laps...they just were not there during most of the race...

Um problema nos freios, que começou a se manifestar ainda no terço inicial da prova e ganhou intensidade na parte final, provocou o abandono de Bruno Senna na 54ª das 57 voltas do Grande Prêmio do Bahrein.

#2376 kenny

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:20

Um problema nos freios, que começou a se manifestar ainda no terço inicial da prova e ganhou intensidade na parte final, provocou o abandono de Bruno Senna na 54ª das 57 voltas do Grande Prêmio do Bahrein.

Thanks Gio...
That explains a lot... He made a great start up to 10th, but the pace didnt seem to be there... I didnt know he had a brake problem and tha explains him dropping down the order... I wonder what the issues on maldonado's car was...
Not a good weekend for williams... Hope barcelona will be good....
Anyone knows who will do the testing in italy?

#2377 gio66

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:26

Thanks Gio...

Anyone knows who will do the testing in italy?

Bruno will drive only wednesday.

You're welcome

#2378 Sergino

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:38

Um problema nos freios, que começou a se manifestar ainda no terço inicial da prova e ganhou intensidade na parte final, provocou o abandono de Bruno Senna na 54ª das 57 voltas do Grande Prêmio do Bahrein.


thanks for assuming I understand portuguese, luckily I do a bit but thanks anyway....so without that he would have been one of the fastest on track...

#2379 gio66

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:42

thanks for assuming I understand portuguese, luckily I do a bit but thanks anyway....so without that he would have been one of the fastest on track...

Thanks for sarcasm. It is indispensable at this hour of Sunday evening.

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#2380 roadie

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:59

Bahrain GP Race

Race Notes
• It was a disappointing day for Williams with both cars retiring before the end of the 57 lap race.
• Pastor made a great start racing through from 21st and running as high as 11th before retiring on lap 25.
• Pastor had a problem with the left-rear of his car forcing him to spin, before returning to the pits and retiring.
• Bruno also made a great start, but a worsening handling problem forced the team to retire him on lap 55.
• The Bahrain Grand Prix also marked our 150th race with Renault.

Mark Gillan, Chief Operations Engineer: Both cars had good starts gaining quite a few positions by the end of the first lap. Pastor’s first stint of the race was decent but unfortunately he spun on lap 25 due to a problem on the left-rear of the car, which forced us to retire him from the race. We are still investigating this problem. Bruno was running in the mid-field for the majority of the race, but a few laps from the finish he complained of a worsening problem with the handling of the car and we took the difficult decision to retire his car too. As a team we now need to regroup and keep pushing in preparation for both the Mugello test and forthcoming Barcelona race.

Bruno Senna: We did everything right on the first lap but unfortunately I was struggling to keep the pace to the cars in front. I think we were quite aggressive with the set-up today but sometimes you don’t get it right. Towards the end I started feeling a lot of vibration in the brake pedal. The engineers were looking at it, so I kept pushing as you never know what will happen, but the vibration got worse and the decision was made to pit to avoid risking an accident. It’s disappointing after two points finishes, but it’s a long season.

Pastor Maldonado: I had a puncture in the exit of Turn 1 and then spun on the straight. I’m disappointed for the team as the performance was there. Starting from the back of the pack I was fighting every lap. The car was responding well and I was able to make up many positions. I feel today we could have scored more points but unfortunately it wasn’t to be.

Laurent Debout, Renault Sport F1 team support leader: It was a shame that we could not get some points in the 150th race for Williams-Renault. We introduced some new settings this race to improve driveability and the drivers were happy with the balance. Pastor’s pace in the first part of the race was good, but from the starting positions it was always going to be hard to make up positions. All the same we’ve now got some time before the next race to look at everything in detail and improve next time out.

There are some positive to take. Both drivers had good starts and made progress early on. I'm fairly sure MAL would have scored some points today had it not been for his issues. SEN was no where, but that seems to have been explained. Doesn't make it any less annoying though!

I'm glad to see that engines and gearboxes are OK for the next race. Here's hoping for some nice new parts to improve the car for a month's time!

#2381 Boing 2

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:45

The more I see of Maldonado the more I like him, loved the re-take of Verne down the front straight, loses a place and just, BANG, re-takes it 100m later. Nice racy stuff, he's starting to look like a proper Williams driver :)

#2382 Sergino

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 21:33

Thanks for sarcasm. It is indispensable at this hour of Sunday evening.


no offense, but looking at his laptimes I see absolutely no sign of any problem that could have hindered him. neither from the first third of the race, nor during the last few laps...during the last stint he was consistently faster than Schumacher who was exactly on the same strategy and set the same pace as Button who was lapping very fast towards the end. What I see is - a thing I never understood - is related more to their tyre choice. It was obvious that the track is very hard with the options, yet this was their choice for the frst two stints and both stints turned out to be awful for Bruno. He was very competitive during the third and fourth stint but his race was done by then because of the first two. Actually they could have seen it even from the first stint that primes suited better to both the car and the circumstances...

Edited by Sergino, 22 April 2012 - 21:37.


#2383 911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 23:01

no offense, but looking at his laptimes I see absolutely no sign of any problem that could have hindered him. neither from the first third of the race, nor during the last few laps...during the last stint he was consistently faster than Schumacher who was exactly on the same strategy and set the same pace as Button who was lapping very fast towards the end. What I see is - a thing I never understood - is related more to their tyre choice. It was obvious that the track is very hard with the options, yet this was their choice for the frst two stints and both stints turned out to be awful for Bruno. He was very competitive during the third and fourth stint but his race was done by then because of the first two. Actually they could have seen it even from the first stint that primes suited better to both the car and the circumstances...


:up:

#2384 search

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 00:17

no offense, but looking at his laptimes I see absolutely no sign of any problem that could have hindered him.


just compare his laptimes with Maldonado's, then you will finde a lot of signs...after his pitstop Senna lost 8 seconds to Maldonado in 4 laps. I think later on he learned to stabilize laptimes, even with being hindered by a breaking problem. In the second stint Senna's fastest lap was ~1 second slower than Maldonado's, who was driving in traffic while Senna was maily on his own.

Maldonado was clearly the fastest in that group of cars (with Ferrari and both Sauber), not much slower than the McLaren, and would have scored points easily, even if I think Williams didn't took the opportunity to gain positions from the degredation-advantage (by using a different strategy to the opponents)

Edited by search, 23 April 2012 - 00:18.


#2385 Sevach

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:03

The more I see of Maldonado the more I like him, loved the re-take of Verne down the front straight, loses a place and just, BANG, re-takes it 100m later. Nice racy stuff, he's starting to look like a proper Williams driver :)


Maldonado is a fighter no doubt and not afraid to mix with the big guys either (Alonso, Hamilton...).

#2386 roadie

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:05

Maldonado was clearly the fastest in that group of cars (with Ferrari and both Sauber), not much slower than the McLaren, and would have scored points easily, even if I think Williams didn't took the opportunity to gain positions from the degredation-advantage (by using a different strategy to the opponents)

:up:

This is how I see it. Shame.

#2387 gio66

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:45

no offense, but looking at his laptimes I see absolutely no sign of any problem that could have hindered him. neither from the first third of the race, nor during the last few laps...during the last stint he was consistently faster than Schumacher who was exactly on the same strategy and set the same pace as Button who was lapping very fast towards the end. What I see is - a thing I never understood - is related more to their tyre choice. It was obvious that the track is very hard with the options, yet this was their choice for the frst two stints and both stints turned out to be awful for Bruno. He was very competitive during the third and fourth stint but his race was done by then because of the first two. Actually they could have seen it even from the first stint that primes suited better to both the car and the circumstances...

I'm sorry
unfortunately yesterday the LT did not work on my PC, so I could not follow the Bruno's race as usual.
I knew already since Saturday evening, as I wrote, that it would need luck to score points, just because of the fact that the options were all used and there were problems of degradation.
I'm beginning to think that the brake issues has been an excuse to justify the retire and to replace something in the next race without incurring penalties, once the pitcrew realized that he could not score points.

Edited by gio66, 23 April 2012 - 10:46.


#2388 Sergino

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 13:28

I'm sorry
unfortunately yesterday the LT did not work on my PC, so I could not follow the Bruno's race as usual.
I knew already since Saturday evening, as I wrote, that it would need luck to score points, just because of the fact that the options were all used and there were problems of degradation.
I'm beginning to think that the brake issues has been an excuse to justify the retire and to replace something in the next race without incurring penalties, once the pitcrew realized that he could not score points.



You can check all the laptimes here:
http://mclarenf-1.co.....el Schumacher

I have the same feeling that they retired the car for tactical reasons. cheers

#2389 gio66

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 17:06

You can check all the laptimes here:
http://mclarenf-1.co.....el Schumacher

Thank you!

Where can I find the data of previous and future GP? The History Graf is very interesting.

:up:

#2390 Boing 2

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 17:17

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/

You'll need a Tardis for the future races.

Edited by Boing 2, 25 April 2012 - 17:18.


#2391 BRG

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 19:12

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/

You'll need a Tardis for the future races.

Nah, just ask Bernie, he has it all planned out.

#2392 roadie

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:11

I find F1 Fanatic's graphs on race pace to be the best. Here's Bahrain's. Try comparing the Williams drivers against those from Ferrari and Mclaren...

#2393 gio66

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:24

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/

You'll need a Tardis for the future races.


:lol:

thx

#2394 Anderis

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:34

http://f1wm.pl/php/r...m...=4&dzial=29

Here are very good graphs. You should be able to learn how it works even if you don't know Polish.

#2395 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 18:25

Pastor is a fighter in the track, I like his clumsiness! :) now everybody will think twice when they see him in the mirror! :)

BTW I'm a huge fan of Williams F1 and new here. and forgive my English if it is not perfect! :p

#2396 MGKrebs

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 18:42

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/

You'll need a Tardis for the future races.


Brilliant!

#2397 Pilla

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 03:06

Seems like a fairly comprehensive upgrade package is being tested, including new exhaust solution.

#2398 Little Leaf

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 06:01

Seems like a fairly comprehensive upgrade package is being tested, including new exhaust solution.


I think if they can get that exhaust working properly it will be a fairly major step forward.

Any other details on other new parts?

#2399 Pilla

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:45

I think if they can get that exhaust working properly it will be a fairly major step forward.

Any other details on other new parts?


Don't know - the only thing I've seen is Mclaren style exhausts - times don't seem promising, but the new regime at Williams seem to be intent at being slowest in testing so not much to read there.

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#2400 Francesc

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 17:44

I believe that today they haven't tested at all with the new exhausts on.

They're testing with sensors with old parts (even pre-season ones) and new parts to check the correlation between wind tunnel/CFD and track performance to have a perfect understanding of what could do new part they bringt on in the future.

For example here they're running with the pre-season floor:
Posted Image

Edited by Francesc, 02 May 2012 - 17:55.