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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#2751 highdownforce

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:29

That's Monaco, every team will have upgrades.
If we can call Monaco package an upgrade.

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#2752 race addicted

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:43

..it isn't of course. It's all track-specific.

#2753 Sevach

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:08

The track was already much faster at the end of Q2 when the temperature dipped, which is why Webber was caught out and Maldonado smashed LH's earlier time.


And if I remember, track temp did increase slightly for Q3 too so the track may not have been necc. quicker than the end of q2 then... lets not forget LH did not have a perfect S3 either.
either way, no evidence in qualy suggests Maldonado was "massively" quicker in S3.


Hamilton's entire lap was downright perfect, kissing every apex, clean exits, no lock ups and no big corrections.
Maldonado was too agressive and opened DRS too early on his Q3 lap, had oversteer and had close it again... he goes over the line with it closed it can be seen from the onboard graphics.

Still, Pastor got the best S3 time of the weekend even if only just.

I've seen the onboard laps from both cars (plus Alonso and Kimi), and both the Mclaren and the Williams were very responsive, good front and excelent traction, while the Lotus visibly struggles (and the time shows).



#2754 rayburn

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:49

As a long time Williams follower (right from Frank's first races in F1 in fact), I remain implacably pessimistic. This season has shown that we should expect the unexpected, and so previous form at Monaco doesn't necessarily count for anything this weekend.

Having said all that, it would be great to have both drivers finish in the top ten, and I really hope they do.

#2755 Little Leaf

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:49

Rob Widdows on the Spain win

http://www.motorspor...ret-ingredient/

#2756 joora

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:35

I just hope Pastor will do his thing in Monaco and avoid any mistakes (and Hamilton).



#2757 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:14

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-essex-18156566

Cannot stopp winning.

#2758 sock22

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 15:57

Looks like Senna will get to run for the complete weekend. It will be interesting to see if he can step up and deliver a decent performance.

http://www.yallaf1.c...tice-in-monaco/

#2759 race addicted

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 16:08

Senna will get both friday sessions on the four street tracks this year; Monaco, Canada, Valencia and Singapore.

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#2760 Sevach

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 23:03

The next 2 races are his big chance then.

If he performs much much better he might give the team second thoughts.

#2761 Little Leaf

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:09

The next 2 races are his big chance then.

If he performs much much better he might give the team second thoughts.


I hope for his sake he does have a couple of strong weekends. If the team carry on with the improving form of this season maybe they can attract a couple of new sponsors and that would have a knock-on effect that they wouldn't be so dependant on the drivers to bring money in. So it's a catch 22 situation for Senna

A nice clean weekend with a good points finish will be a big boost for him

Edited by Little Leaf, 23 May 2012 - 05:09.


#2762 madrocker

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:51

Here's hoping he can actually challenge for the win, even better if against Maldonado. THAT would put Williams in the spotlight as real contender for championship glory: win at the most aerodinamically demanding track and the most driver and mechanical grip demanding track.

#2763 race addicted

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 15:19

"For sure when I get to Spa I'm going to be much more comfortable with everything, but for this race and for Montreal I have P1 and then in Valencia, Silverstone, Nurburgring and Hungary is Valtteri [Bottas] back in the car." -Senna

...turns out I was off! I thought he was on for both Friday sessions on the four street tracks but clearly not for Valencia.

#2764 Mandzipop

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 19:36

Here's hoping he can actually challenge for the win, even better if against Maldonado. THAT would put Williams in the spotlight as real contender for championship glory: win at the most aerodinamically demanding track and the most driver and mechanical grip demanding track.


And say, just say Senna got a podium or even a win, the team would possibly have to rethink their strategy about Bottas doing as many free practices. How much does Bottas bring?

Thise Friday practice sessions are hurting Bruno, the team has to also consider their place in the championship. That also brings them money too. Lets hope that they took that into consideration with the contract with Bottas.

#2765 race addicted

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 19:41

Contracts are there to be broken and so forth, but I imagine it isn't as simple as just taking Bottas' remaining friday sessions and give them to Senna. Senna knew what the terms were, what the situation was, and signed the contract.

...Didn't Bottas bring around $5m?

#2766 Mandzipop

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 19:48

Contracts are there to be broken and so forth, but I imagine it isn't as simple as just taking Bottas' remaining friday sessions and give them to Senna. Senna knew what the terms were, what the situation was, and signed the contract.

...Didn't Bottas bring around $5m?


I'm thinking about Williams full stop, not just Bruno. If doing this loses them too many places in the championship then they will have lost money as the WCC is where the money comes from. The only other problem is that with F1 being so unpredictable atm, is that they are not getting a true reading of how the car is from both racing drivers.

My suspiscion is that Williams did not expect this year to be so competitive. I highly doubt they would have put themselves in that position if they'd have known. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

#2767 race addicted

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 19:57

I agree it's very likely they didn't expect to often show top six, top eight pace, much less win, but regardless, they do not have Senna in their long term plans.
Bottas is though, and these Friday sessions are part of his grooming.

#2768 IceSkyrim

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 23:18

Contracts are there to be broken and so forth, but I imagine it isn't as simple as just taking Bottas' remaining friday sessions and give them to Senna. Senna knew what the terms were, what the situation was, and signed the contract.

...Didn't Bottas bring around $5m?

I heard that Toto Wolf is his manager and is paying for the 15 FP1 sessions. :well:

But I believe the best deal for Toto is getting more sponsorship from Senna and loan Bottas to another team, to gatter experience.
Replacing Bottas now might make more evil than good to his career due to the lack of race pace.

#2769 FW09

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 10:29

And say, just say Senna got a podium or even a win, the team would possibly have to rethink their strategy about Bottas doing as many free practices. How much does Bottas bring?

Thise Friday practice sessions are hurting Bruno, the team has to also consider their place in the championship. That also brings them money too. Lets hope that they took that into consideration with the contract with Bottas.


Losing one practice session shouldn't hurt a proper driver one bit. It certainly hasn't hurt Grosjean, Vettel, Räikkönen, etc.

Today in P1 Senna was almost 2 seconds slower than Maldonado. Was it so important track time for him that he wanted to stay there longer?


#2770 Sevach

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 10:35

For his sake i hope he is a slow starter and that trundling around in FP1 will help him as the weekend progresses, because the performance itself was disapointing

#2771 Sevach

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 19:03

Maldonado looks good again, Senna better pick up the pace and get some points

#2772 Sevach

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 01:30

Senna and Maldo on different RW's

Pastor RW

Seems like the Barcelona one.


Bruno RW

Longer chord.

#2773 A.Fant

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:22

Senna and Maldo on different RW's

Pastor RW

Seems like the Barcelona one.


Bruno RW

Longer chord.


Indeed. The wing on Bruno's car also has a raised lower lip.

#2774 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:33

Senna's appears to have a raised leading edge and a longer chord flap (as you rightly say). It also has a different slot arrangement in the endplates. Pastor's has 5 while Bruno's has 4.

#2775 Francesc

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:01

But that wing was only used in FP1. In Fp2 both drivers had the Barcelona rear wing. So it's irrelevant.

#2776 August

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 18:03

In weekends like this I'd hope Williams would've retained Rubens. He'd be faster than Bruno, and at least almost as fast as Pastor if not faster and more consistent. And I wonder how great Spain could've been for Williams if they had Rubens instead of Bruno.

#2777 Slartibartfast

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 18:15

In weekends like this I'd hope Williams would've retained Rubens. He'd be faster than Bruno, and at least almost as fast as Pastor if not faster and more consistent. And I wonder how great Spain could've been for Williams if they had Rubens instead of Bruno.

I don't think it would have made much difference to Schumacher...

#2778 Anderis

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 18:28

I would rather have Sutil than Rubens. Rubens proved last year that he cannot keep up with Pastor's pace when Pastor get it right. And remember Australia 2011. Rubens completely destroyed his weekend by the nuber of 3(!) serious mistakes. And he wasn't going to improve before 2012, not at his age. He did very fin job in 2010, but it didn't seem like he did all that was possible with his 2011 car.
For sure he would be quicker than Bruno and maybe would be even in front of Pastor now in WDC standings. But I don't feel he would extract maximum of that car as well.
All in all, I don't miss Rubens. Williams' recovery was possible also due to Senna's sponsorship. I see more potential in Bottas. But it looks they don't want to give him a car before 2013 at Williams.

Bottas-Maldonado could be a strong pairing for 2013.

And for Williams, it didn't make a big difference if it was just only win, or 1-2 finish in Spain this year. The most important thing was that they at last scored their first win in eight years.

#2779 rubikimi

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 19:52

great result from senna. in front of pastor in grid tomorrow.
I wouldnt bet though that he will finish the race infront of him.


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#2780 Lord Snooty

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 21:32

Disappointed with Pastor but hope to see a bit better tomorrow

#2781 GustavoB

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 01:45

great result from senna. in front of pastor in grid tomorrow.
I wouldnt bet though that he will finish the race infront of him.


I would like to agree with you, but I can't. Senna is missing almost half a second on Maldo's pace. He need to improve, after Spa he won't have any excuses anymore. He need to deliver better results.
:(






#2782 Tiakumosan

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:34

Bruno too slow in qualy comparing to Pastor :(

#2783 Little Leaf

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:34

So Pastor starts at the back alongside Perez. Will be interesting to see how they come through the field ( hopefully Pastor can keep his nose out of trouble.

Gonna be a long race, I think points are still possible for both drivers if they can keep it clean

#2784 GSF1

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:38

Bruno too slow in qualy comparing to Pastor :(


As we can all agree Bottas is not ideal on Fridays, once again I feel Senna is being undermined again in getting a fair chance to prove himself. But as a Williams fan first and only for us to be level on points with Mercedes and to have thrown a fair few away in the process is a mighty effort. Bahrain and Melbourne could of and should of put us up with Ferrari.

I would like to see Williams change tact and to drop Bottas to give the team and Senna the optimum time to get the car sorted and give Senna time to work closely with his team. Senna needs time to familiarise himself with the circuits and there intricacies they have in getting good laptime.

F1 like we can all agree is ultra competitive this year, those 20-30 laps in FP1, plus the data, the set-up changes is worth so much more than any time in the recent history. that 1 1/2 hours is so critical when trying to compete against 16 other drivers in similar equipment and with times being so close.

All in all Williams would not have realised that they would have been so competitive when they signed Bottas and Senna contracts. Usually a turn around like this take 3-4 years in F1. not say 8 months, if we say from September last year.

Williams of old would never have entered into an agreement like they have with Bottas., cause they are there to win and now they know this they need to give both drivers the same chance.

But as along Williams fan I am happy to see such progress. A few more areas to sort out, but a stellar effort so far
I'm just hoping that Pastor is not also getting the better equipment, but that will be a discussion for another day.....





#2785 Anderis

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:43

As we can all agree Bottas is not ideal on Fridays, once again I feel Senna is being undermined again in getting a fair chance to prove himself. But as a Williams fan first and only for us to be level on points with Mercedes and to have thrown a fair few away in the process is a mighty effort. Bahrain and Melbourne could of and should of put us up with Ferrari.

I would like to see Williams change tact and to drop Bottas to give the team and Senna the optimum time to get the car sorted and give Senna time to work closely with his team. Senna needs time to familiarise himself with the circuits and there intricacies they have in getting good laptime.

Oh, c'mon. Senna is underperforming too much that lack of FP1 running would be an accurate excuse for him. It's no use to drop Bottas now, when Senna is lacking 0,7 secs to Maldonado. He probably won't improve by 0,7 secs anyhow, he is too old and experienced to do that IMO.

It's right that Senna might be slighty better if wouldn't have to share the car with Bottas. But no way it's hurting him so much. I've seen many times in last several years in F1 that driver who didn't run FP1, beat his team-mate in the following part of the weekend.

#2786 tractionman

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 10:46

Senna on his qualifying debacle.

http://www.motorspor...frustriert.html


I think Senna needs to step away from Formula 1. He quite clearly is not understanding the tires and is getting soundly beaten by a guy who was not at par with him in gp2.

#2787 Tiakumosan

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 13:54

1 point today.

Pastor paid the price for starting from last. Bruno I think if he had pitted two laps latter, he would be ahead of Kimi and could be at 8th or 9th. Thanks to STR for changing Vergne to intermediates.

#2788 tractionman

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 13:57

1 point today.

Pastor paid the price for starting from last. Bruno I think if he had pitted two laps latter, he would be ahead of Kimi and could be at 8th or 9th. Thanks to STR for changing Vergne to intermediates.


Awful strategy from Williams.....Senna was clearly quicker than the 3 cars in front of him and his first set of super softs were still good in terms of laptime when they pitted.

#2789 mdaclarke

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 14:09

I think Bruno drove well enough to have finished 7th or 8th if the team's strategy had been better. I would hope that his drive today will get all the Bottas lovers off his back.

#2790 Lord Snooty

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 14:17

Not as bad as it could have been and not as good as it should have been. B- today. Best learn the lessons, move on and put it behind us.

#2791 GustavoB

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 15:02

Bruno did what he could do, no mistakes and a little bit faster than FIs and Raikko, but the pit strategy was wrong. They should have tried something different from Raikkonen, pit one lap before or after, not in the same lap.


#2792 mdaclarke

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 15:43

For me the best thing about Bruno's race was that he managed to have a "clean" race whereby he managed to avoid any incidents. In the past he has seemed a bit of a trouble magnet.

#2793 Kyo

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 15:46

Bruno did what he could do, no mistakes and a little bit faster than FIs and Raikko, but the pit strategy was wrong. They should have tried something different from Raikkonen, pit one lap before or after, not in the same lap.

Impossible to understand. You're much faster but has no chance of overtaking. Why did they pit together with Kimi? Bruno could have finished 7th. At least he got 1 point thanks to STR gamble.

#2794 rubikimi

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 16:02

Bruno, so much better than Pastor today.
Smashed the field and coleected one point.
Bravo Bruno! mighty fast.

#2795 Kyo

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 16:10

Bruno, so much better than Pastor today.
Smashed the field and coleected one point.
Bravo Bruno! mighty fast.

Should we laugh?

Can't see the need to be sarcastic here...

#2796 911

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 16:47

I agree with most of the above posts. Bruno was clearly faster than Kimi, but it's Monaco and you have to be a lot quicker here to have a legitimate chance of making a clean pass. But, at least he was gifted a position via STR's late gamble on intermediates.

#2797 Francesc

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 17:09

Very good drive from Bruno. Too bad we didn't get to see any of his battle with Raikkonen. Now if he only improved his quali pace.

#2798 kenny

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 17:54

Very good drive from Bruno. Too bad we didn't get to see any of his battle with Raikkonen. Now if he only improved his quali pace.

Agreed, his race pace is good... He just needs to work on his qual pace to make his life easier during the race...

#2799 Little Leaf

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:43

Agreed, his race pace is good... He just needs to work on his qual pace to make his life easier during the race...


He seemed to be moaning about the tyres after qualy. Wasn't qualy his strong point whilst at Renault, and his race craft was suspect? Could have been traits of the car obviously, but now it seems the other way round

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#2800 Little Leaf

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:46

Comments from Mark Gillan seem to suggest he saw the FP3 incident a bit differently to Pastor

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/100002