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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#251 One

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 13:34

Another one, Jacques Villenueve!

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#252 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 14:25

f1enigma reporting that Sutil's chances are diminishing, whilst Barrichello's position grows slightly stronger.

#253 sofarapartguy

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 14:28

f1enigma reporting that Sutil's chances are diminishing, whilst Barrichello's position grows slightly stronger.

Then Sutil is out of the seat next year.

#254 Longtimefan

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 14:42

Williams should go for Petrov, its a no brainer

Money + Talent (well, some.;))


#255 Sevach

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 14:50

Both are solid choices imo.
Sutil would probably be better long term.

#256 Little Leaf

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 15:03

f1enigma reporting that Sutil's chances are diminishing, whilst Barrichello's position grows slightly stronger.


Wonder why that could be? Maybe his demands are too high whereas Rubens will drive for fresh air

#257 Mauseri

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 15:03

f1enigma reporting that Sutil's chances are diminishing, whilst Barrichello's position grows slightly stronger.

Hope it's Sutil. Like to see more of his car control. Plus that Barrichello has already shown everything he has got.

#258 Petroltorque

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 15:44

Williams are in the unenviable position of needing money to extract themselves from the quagmire. With Gillan onboard its more likely they will take a more engineering led approach to setup so they could plump for a less experienced driver with funding.

#259 jamiegc

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 15:48

Wonder why that could be? Maybe his demands are too high whereas Rubens will drive for fresh air


Sutil's backer is Medion. They however have just been taken over by Lenovo, who have themselves just left Williams as a sponsor.

Sutil's chances at a seat at Williams rely entirely on convincing Lenovo to return to Wiliams with Medion.

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#260 Little Leaf

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 05:55

Sutil's backer is Medion. They however have just been taken over by Lenovo, who have themselves just left Williams as a sponsor.

Sutil's chances at a seat at Williams rely entirely on convincing Lenovo to return to Wiliams with Medion.


Medion isn't his only sponsor though is it? I thought Capri-Sun and maybe one other? Medion is by far the biggest though

#261 One

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 13:11

Sutil's backer is Medion. They however have just been taken over by Lenovo, who have themselves just left Williams as a sponsor.

Sutil's chances at a seat at Williams rely entirely on convincing Lenovo to return to Wiliams with Medion.


FI is about to sat good by to Sutil with this reason perhaps. Money talks in FI still. The team must have some financial implications. Just a question is Hulk comes with financial backing tho. is he also a 'pay' driver?

Just how much drivers are now 'pay' drivers now?

Hulkenburg (?)

He was not pay driver at the Williams, I thought...

Petrov, (Rus')
Perez, (Telmex)
Sutil, (Medion ezv)
Di Rista (Merc?)
Maldonado, (PDVSA)
Pic (?),
Ricciardo, (Red Bull)


and er... grey zone...

Alguesuari
Buemi ??
...
?

How about Red Bull graduates drivers who get paid?


#262 intothepits

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 13:13

Hope Barrichello stays. It will definitely be for the best that he does. Total legend who still has plenty left in him.

#263 Little Leaf

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 13:27

FI is about to sat good by to Sutil with this reason perhaps. Money talks in FI still. The team must have some financial implications. Just a question is Hulk comes with financial backing tho. is he also a 'pay' driver?

Just how much drivers are now 'pay' drivers now?

Hulkenburg (?)

He was not pay driver at the Williams, I thought...

Petrov, (Rus')
Perez, (Telmex)
Sutil, (Medion ezv)
Di Rista (Merc?)
Maldonado, (PDVSA)
Pic (?),
Ricciardo, (Red Bull)


and er... grey zone...

Alguesuari
Buemi ??
...
?

How about Red Bull graduates drivers who get paid?



Hulkenburg wasn't a pay driver at Williams and refused to look for sponsorship.

So unless he has changed his tune I wouldn't think he has any backing now


#264 One

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 13:30

It is always a bit difficult to get a ex driver back into the cockpit again.

Rubinho will do 2012, don't we think?

#265 sofarapartguy

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 13:45

It is always a bit difficult to get a ex driver back into the cockpit again.

Rubinho will do 2012, don't we think?


Last year they (Williams) were very happy with Rubens saying "without him we would be nowhere". I can't remember anything close to such loyalty this year. Though that can mean nothing.

Edited by sofarapartguy, 12 December 2011 - 13:46.


#266 Anderis

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 14:42

Medion isn't his only sponsor though is it? I thought Capri-Sun and maybe one other? Medion is by far the biggest though

If you visit his official website, you will know how many sponsors he has. More than HRT AFAIK. :rotfl:

#267 One

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 15:07

f1enigma reporting that Sutil's chances are diminishing, whilst Barrichello's position grows slightly stronger.


Now meaning that Sutil will likely stay at FI... THen the choice for Williams will be... Di Rista?

#268 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 18:23

Last year they (Williams) were very happy with Rubens saying "without him we would be nowhere". I can't remember anything close to such loyalty this year. Though that can mean nothing.

I'm sure around June time Adam Parr said Barrichello was "very likely" to stay on for 2012.

#269 Francesc

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 20:10

I'm sure around June time Adam Parr said Barrichello was "very likely" to stay on for 2012.


June! A lot of things have changed since then.

BTW the FW34 will be launched in Doha.
http://www.autohebdo..._medium=twitter

Edited by Francesc, 12 December 2011 - 20:22.


#270 Sevach

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 20:20

Maybe the QNB deal wasn't hanging on Raikkonen :wave:

#271 onewingedangel

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 20:27

FW34 will be launched in Doha.
http://www.autohebdo..._medium=twitter


If that's true it looks likely that they have QNB backing - if this would be enough to replace PDVSA personally I'd like to see Williams drop Maldonado and go for Senna (and his sponsors) and Barrichello (for one final year) and really try to get some long-term deals in Brazil. The PDVSA deal was questionable from the start and looks ever more like it's going to come back and bite them.

More likely though to be PDVSA (and thus Maldonado) plus QNB and either Sutil/Senna/VanDerGarde/whomever can scrape together the most cash.

#272 One

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 00:42

:cry:

Last year they (Williams) were very happy with Rubens saying "without him we would be nowhere". I can't remember anything close to such loyalty this year. Though that can mean nothing.



#273 One

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 00:43

:clap:

June! A lot of things have changed since then.

BTW the FW34 will be launched in Doha.
http://www.autohebdo..._medium=twitter



#274 DanardiF1

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 03:49

Now meaning that Sutil will likely stay at FI... THen the choice for Williams will be... Di Rista?


Hulkenberg? Would like to see him in a race seat, and a return to Williams would be good for the team, who seemed disappointed to have to drop him in favour of Maldonado's cash last year.

#275 MaxisOne

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 05:27

Then Sutil is out of the seat next year.


I think that he may get/take a third driver spot on a team with two more Germans .. If nothing is left of course...

I wouldn't mind even though i was supporting Di Resta.

#276 Little Leaf

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 06:57

June! A lot of things have changed since then.

BTW the FW34 will be launched in Doha.
http://www.autohebdo..._medium=twitter


How reliable is this website?

Great news if they have secured QNB backing. If that is the case then the second driver should be based on talent alone. Rubens or Glock (if possible) would be my choice

#277 Petroltorque

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:03

Hulkenberg? Would like to see him in a race seat, and a return to Williams would be good for the team, who seemed disappointed to have to drop him in favour of Maldonado's cash last year.

A more realistic interpretation is that Williams chose Barrichello over Hulkenberg. They needed to find a replacement for the loss of RBS, Philips etc. One could hardly suggest that Maldonado does not merit a further years racing. Williams are clearly waiting for the FI announcement prior to announcing their own lineup.

Edited by Petroltorque, 13 December 2011 - 08:04.


#278 One

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:27

A more realistic interpretation is that Williams chose Barrichello over Hulkenberg. They needed to find a replacement for the loss of RBS, Philips etc. One could hardly suggest that Maldonado does not merit a further years racing. Williams are clearly waiting for the FI announcement prior to announcing their own lineup.

With a inch of salt on hands I got this message that Williams is not waiting for any driver who may not drive for FI 2012. I could see Sutil fixing his presence at the FI meaning ...

Btw any news on car front? becoming inpatient about hearing from them if the team makes Februari first test with new car. What ships they be doing? monocoque hydrailics electronics assenblies etc? Do they design all parts in advanced or do they design the fitting on one mockups?

#279 Little Leaf

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:39

With a inch of salt on hands I got this message that Williams is not waiting for any driver who may not drive for FI 2012. I could see Sutil fixing his presence at the FI meaning ...

Btw any news on car front? becoming inpatient about hearing from them if the team makes Februari first test with new car. What ships they be doing? monocoque hydrailics electronics assenblies etc? Do they design all parts in advanced or do they design the fitting on one mockups?


I hope they make the first test. With a new engine, integrating KERS with it and the gearbox, cooling etc they have enough to do and need to test it.

2011 was pretty poor reliability wise at the start of the year. Hope there isn't a repeat

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#280 sofarapartguy

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:52

A more realistic interpretation is that Williams chose Barrichello over Hulkenberg. They needed to find a replacement for the loss of RBS, Philips etc. One could hardly suggest that Maldonado does not merit a further years racing. Williams are clearly waiting for the FI announcement prior to announcing their own lineup.


So the situation looks like:

If FI takes DIR (which is highly expected) + Hulk then Williams takes Sutil? But if FI keeps DIR + Sutil then Williams takes Rubens? But what is the point of waiting then? Couple of millions $$ from Medion, which is not that significant compared to Maldonado's backing?

Edited by sofarapartguy, 13 December 2011 - 08:54.


#281 Little Leaf

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:05

So the situation looks like:

If FI takes DIR (which is highly expected) + Hulk then Williams takes Sutil? But if FI keeps DIR + Sutil then Williams takes Rubens? But what is the point of waiting then? Couple of millions $$ from Medion, which is not that significant compared to Maldonado's backing?


If the launch is in Qatar due to other business deals and not because they have QNB backing, then the Medion money will come in handy.

If they have secured QNB funding then it doesn't make much sense to wait.

Unless Sutil is considered better than Rubens by members of the team regardless if he brings money or not.

#282 sofarapartguy

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:30

If the launch is in Qatar due to other business deals and not because they have QNB backing, then the Medion money will come in handy.

If they have secured QNB funding then it doesn't make much sense to wait.

Unless Sutil is considered better than Rubens by members of the team regardless if he brings money or not.


But Williams is still waiting for something, and Sutil keep saying he would like to stay with FI, what tells us he is not sure about his future.

My only guess is that Williams just likes the practice of delaying line-up announcement, for whatever reason.

#283 maverick69

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:31

From Scarbs on F1 technical:

Stuff I've been told from my contacts at Williams

Monocoque construction outdated and over weight
Trouble with aero
In particuar the EBD which Williams were slow to develop and handicapped by the lack of complex blown mappings from Cosworth. Williams invested their own cash to have these. The late season floor was much better.
The Cosworth lacked drivability and was fuel thirsty too

No mention of any gearbox issues


Although Sam Michael has gone, so too has Jon Tomlinson and Patrick Head has shifted his attnetion away from the F1 team. I'm told many people that might have been normally considered for the Williams TD job, were not selected as the team want a new engineerign structure. I.E. not one tied to the people and stlye of the outgoing management. Coughlan altho not without his critics is a hard working, pragmatic and innovative engineer. Mark Gillan brings a scientific approach to engineering. Leaving only Jason Somerville as a William returnee, albeit via the very different environment of Toyota and Renault.



http://www.f1technic...c...0&start=750

#284 Petroltorque

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 11:46

I think the most damning statement is that their monocoque technology is outdated. The easist way to find speed is to save weight.

#285 Little Leaf

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:02

I think the most damning statement is that their monocoque technology is outdated. The easist way to find speed is to save weight.


Let's hope they can sort it out for the FW34 then

#286 roadie

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:11

Well I'd assume that they are still on the minimum weight? If that's the case, then CoG and weight distribution (although there is a small fixed range for this) will be the main issues instead. These could have an effect on how the tyres are used.

#287 Clatter

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:20

From Scarbs on F1 technical:

Stuff I've been told from my contacts at Williams

Monocoque construction outdated and over weight
Trouble with aero
In particuar the EBD which Williams were slow to develop and handicapped by the lack of complex blown mappings from Cosworth. Williams invested their own cash to have these. The late season floor was much better.
The Cosworth lacked drivability and was fuel thirsty too

No mention of any gearbox issues


Although Sam Michael has gone, so too has Jon Tomlinson and Patrick Head has shifted his attnetion away from the F1 team. I'm told many people that might have been normally considered for the Williams TD job, were not selected as the team want a new engineerign structure. I.E. not one tied to the people and stlye of the outgoing management. Coughlan altho not without his critics is a hard working, pragmatic and innovative engineer. Mark Gillan brings a scientific approach to engineering. Leaving only Jason Somerville as a William returnee, albeit via the very different environment of Toyota and Renault.



http://www.f1technic...c...0&start=750


How the hell would they get themselves into that situation? Surely the cost difference between a crap monocoque and a properly built one would be insignificant in F1 terms, even for Williams.


#288 intothepits

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:46

Easy... The teams structure totally lost its way, in many areas... hence you see their worst car ever.

Hopefully now a new structure is put in place when it comes to staff and management. They do need a new way of organising things.

#289 Petroltorque

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 13:07

Well I'd assume that they are still on the minimum weight? If that's the case, then CoG and weight distribution (although there is a small fixed range for this) will be the main issues instead. These could have an effect on how the tyres are used.

I would think that all the major teams are well underweight. Modern Composite technology used in the Red Bull means they can use less carbon fibre and achieve the same stiffness. Thus freeing up ballast to make up minimum weight.

#290 Little Leaf

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 13:55

Is the CoG fixed for next yeat too or is that now free?

I presume it was only fixed FWD to Rear, whereas heightwise was free last year?

#291 Petroltorque

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 15:32

AFAIK its only weight distribution that is fixed and thus the only way to alter C of G is to alter wheel base. I think the aim is to have c of g as low down as posible.

#292 noikeee

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 16:44

Weight distribution is fixed again? Why? :confused: Wasn't that only to get the teams used to the tyres? Is this a permanent rule now?

#293 highdownforce

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 16:53

Weight distribution is fixed again? Why? :confused: Wasn't that only to get the teams used to the tyres? Is this a permanent rule now?

Yes, it was. IIRC, (some) teams liked that and it was made fixed until the new rule book for 2014.

#294 Little Leaf

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:45

Yes, it was. IIRC, (some) teams liked that and it was made fixed until the new rule book for 2014.


Don't know why it should stay now. I can understand for 2011 it was because of the new tyres, but they should have enough info on them now.

#295 Petroltorque

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:06

It stays because its another variable. The bigger teams could spend a Greek debt determining the best weight distribution. That would squeeze the pole time and affect the smaller teams.

#296 Clatter

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:12

Don't know why it should stay now. I can understand for 2011 it was because of the new tyres, but they should have enough info on them now.


Still can't help laughing that it was Brawns idea in the first place and it was Merc who still got it wrong.


#297 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 13:14

Don't know why it should stay now. I can understand for 2011 it was because of the new tyres, but they should have enough info on them now.

IIRC the weight distribution was fixed because of KERS - i.e., it was too advantageous to run without KERS and potentially exploit the tyres better.

#298 Petroltorque

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 13:56

IIRC the weight distribution was fixed because of KERS - i.e., it was too advantageous to run without KERS and potentially exploit the tyres better.

The. Weight distribution was fixed to prevent a team of lucking into the optimal weight distribution with a homogulated formula. The teams directed Pirelli to produce tyres to suit this weight distribution. It had nothing to do with KERS.
The rule to accomodate KERS was to increase the minimum car wieght by 20kg to 640kg.

#299 joora

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:56

Well, now that Algersuari and Buemi have lost their seats, seems that Frank Williams has some really nice options (especially if Williams has gained the QNB backing as rumored and doesn't need a pay driver)

Who will it be?
Sutil?
Barrichelo?
Algersuari?
Buemi?
Senna?
Petrov (but I think he's basically in Marrusia)?
Someone else?



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#300 glorius&victorius

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 19:03

Well, now that Algersuari and Buemi have lost their seats, seems that Frank Williams has some really nice options (especially if Williams has gained the QNB backing as rumored and doesn't need a pay driver)

Who will it be?
Sutil?
Barrichelo?
Algersuari?
Buemi?
Senna?
Petrov (but I think he's basically in Marrusia)?
Someone else?


in terms of talent and speed... Sutil and Alguesuari come on top dont they?

With Sutil its more a known quantity... with his level of consistency he could do a Heidfeldter every weekend.
Jaime has proven to be as fast, and still his exploiting of his potential has just started.


- if Williams take Buemi (and God forbid) we would have a "who-is-the-ugliest-driver competition"


I hope Williams do not have depend on funding criteria to hire one of them.

Edited by glorius&victorius, 14 December 2011 - 19:12.