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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#2951 Francesc

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 16:46

Another disaster. Senna was just slow despite the incident, Maldonado impressive pace but reckless.

Senna needs to be replaced from the next race, sponsorship or not Williams is going to loose in the constructors championship. Maybe Bottas could bring more sponsors now that the car is proved to be in the top 5 race pace.


He was looking after the tyres and was together with Schumacher and Webber on the same strategy who finished 3rd and 4th. On the last stint when he didn't have to look after his tyres anymore he was as fast as Maldonado.

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#2952 kenny

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 16:52

He was looking after the tyres and was together with Schumacher and Webber on the same strategy who finished 3rd and 4th. On the last stint when he didn't have to look after his tyres anymore he was as fast as Maldonado.

:up:

#2953 kenny

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 16:53

Unfortunately, like in Spain, Senna was taken out by cars on fresher tyres from behind. We never saw what he could do later in the race which is annoying frankly, as races keep going by and it's impossible to compare him seriously to Maldonado.

Or the strategy at Williams fails.. like in Monaco...


#2954 muramasa

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:01


The other thread about Maldo is crazy. Sure his fault with costly consequence but not big deal really. Nowadays things are often either overlooked or get nuclear chain reaction, it seems.

#2955 ZooL

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:04

Good car.

Shame about the drivers.

They need to hire somebody else to lead the team forward.

#2956 nemtudom

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:33

Obviously disappointed after today's race... I'm glad the car was fast again, but it's frustrating to see so many points lost. I knew it was going to end badly between Hamilton and Maldonado, I wish he hadn't even tried to pass him.
I generally like agressive driving but what the Williams drivers are showing this season is not what I want to see...

#2957 Petroltorque

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 17:36

Yes Indeed the thread about banning Maldonado was complete nonsense. Infact of all the rubbish written in it I could find only one objective comment referring to Hamilton allowing Raikkonen past in the same spot but blocking Maldonado.
Yes I accept that by the letter of the law Maldonado would have to accept responsibility since he was partially off track at the time, but seriously did Hamilton think he could keep the position. From the moment these guys closed up in the race all I could see was imminent collision. Hamilton was all over the place in the traction zones and seemed preoccupied in putting "manners" on Maldonado. Problem is its better to play the long game. Hamilton's looking at the championship so why defend an untenable position.
Ah well. absolutely stonking race. Who would have thought a Valencia borefest could have produced such a tumultous race.
Seems like the curse of Sam michael has well and truly set in at Macca. Who would have thought you could over complicate a front jack. He won't see the season out and I sincerely hope that Sir Frank has enough sense not to have him back at Grove.
Chins up Race fans, who would think that we'd be dissapointed because a driver missed out on a podium after the Shite we endured last year.

Edited by Petroltorque, 24 June 2012 - 17:39.


#2958 mdaclarke

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 18:03

The penalty for Maldonado is the best possible result for the Williams team if not for maldonado. They don't lose any points and both drivers now have more chance of scoring points at Silverstone. A grid penalty would have hurt the team more.

#2959 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 18:13

Thing is if the timing had just been slightly different, Pastor would have either passed Lewis well before the corner or he wouldn't have been close enough and would have got him on the next straight. It could have been a straightforward pass. :(

Williams really need a strong result at home next time out, and with the way the car has been performing in the fast stuff it could happen. It seems the drivers are a bit of a weak link at the moment.

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#2960 Meanbeakin

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 23:25

Pastor should've just conceded and waited for a better opportunity. Hamilton's tyres were gone, he would've been easy pickings at some stage in the final 2 laps. I seem to remember Damon Hill losing a championship for the same reason.

As for Senna he was actually running pretty well and looking after his tyres and could well have been in the podium mix at the end. I think his incident with Kobayashi was a bit 50/50, Koba saw an opening where Bruno was setting himself up for another run at Kimi. Racing incident, shouldn't have been a drive through.

Williams have definitely thrown away a good chunk of points this year though.

Edited by Meanbeakin, 24 June 2012 - 23:26.


#2961 Louis Mr. F1

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 00:25

what has Alex Wurz done in helping our drivers' development?

one is plain slow and another one is reckless - what's Alex's role given to him and did he really contribute?

i'm so disappointed with today's result, 15 points gone, we could've caught right up with the Sauber in the constructor's standings.

#2962 FEB

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:34

In Monaco Barrichello was lapped by his teammate. I think Williams clearly knew what they were doing by dropping Barrichello, but I think they were hoping for more from Senna. What I find interesting though is that they are not suffering from lack of development with two inexperienced drivers, and they have made their best car for ages after the exit of the renowned 'car developer' Barrichello.


from 12 races that both finished, rubens finished in front in 7 times..

rubens scored 4 points, maldonado 1...



another point, you are telling me that they started to build the car in december? :rolleyes:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt."




#2963 Pilla

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 03:39

from 12 races that both finished, rubens finished in front in 7 times..

rubens scored 4 points, maldonado 1...



another point, you are telling me that they started to build the car in december? :rolleyes:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt."


Last yeras Williams was a terrible car, therefore Rubens experience should have made it night and day compared to Maldanado - you don't have the most experienced driver in F1 history in your team to be kept honest by a rookie. Moldanado would have been the number one driver this year reguardless, might as well roll the dice and replace Rubens.

#2964 Massa_f1

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 19:45

Last yeras Williams was a terrible car, therefore Rubens experience should have made it night and day compared to Maldanado - you don't have the most experienced driver in F1 history in your team to be kept honest by a rookie. Moldanado would have been the number one driver this year reguardless, might as well roll the dice and replace Rubens.



This year Williams is a good car yet there drivers crash out more often than not, and well Bruno is just not good enough for F1. If i was Frank i would of kept Rubens and got Nick H
in as well.

I bet with them two drivers they would of had more points by now for the team

#2965 One

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 21:34

Last yeras Williams was a terrible car, therefore Rubens experience should have made it night and day compared to Maldanado - you don't have the most experienced driver in F1 history in your team to be kept honest by a rookie. Moldanado would have been the number one driver this year reguardless, might as well roll the dice and replace Rubens.


this

#2966 l8apex

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 01:15

They need to tell Pastor to calm the heck down and ditch Senna for Adrian Sutil.

On a personal level I really dislike Pastor and quite like Bruno, but it's been said before... it's a lot easier to work on making a fast driver crash less and be more consistent than it is to make a slow driver fast.

#2967 Jejking

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 01:43

Pastor should've just conceded and waited for a better opportunity. Hamilton's tyres were gone, he would've been easy pickings at some stage in the final 2 laps. I seem to remember Damon Hill losing a championship for the same reason.

As for Senna he was actually running pretty well and looking after his tyres and could well have been in the podium mix at the end. I think his incident with Kobayashi was a bit 50/50, Koba saw an opening where Bruno was setting himself up for another run at Kimi. Racing incident, shouldn't have been a drive through.

Williams have definitely thrown away a good chunk of points this year though.

Jup and jup.

Senna was actually doing very good and going very controlled, until that slice with Kobayashi. Come on... the Sauber was up on his inside already and had to back out of it due to Senna not being aware (again) of the location of his opposition. It was too pathetic for words.

#2968 Little Leaf

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:49

This year Williams is a good car yet there drivers crash out more often than not, and well Bruno is just not good enough for F1. If i was Frank i would of kept Rubens and got Nick H
in as well.

I bet with them two drivers they would of had more points by now for the team


And you would have paid for it all with which money exactly?

There is a reason Williams have the drivers they do at the moment. The bonus with Maldonado is he brings a shed load of cash and when he isn't crashing into people he is fast.

Bruno needs to sort his qualifying out or he will continue to struggle


#2969 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 09:27

In Monaco Barrichello was lapped by his teammate. I think Williams clearly knew what they were doing by dropping Barrichello, but I think they were hoping for more from Senna. What I find interesting though is that they are not suffering from lack of development with two inexperienced drivers, and they have made their best car for ages after the exit of the renowned 'car developer' Barrichello.

Might have something to do with the entire senior management team being changed?

Gillan said they were bringing new parts to every race last year but many weren't working. This year they're bringing larger updates every few races that are more likely to make a difference.

#2970 BRG

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 19:33

what has Alex Wurz done in helping our drivers' development?

one is plain slow and another one is reckless - what's Alex's role given to him and did he really contribute?

He can only work with what he's got. Maybe without Wurz's input, Pastor would be slow and reckless, and Bruno even slower?

#2971 One

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 21:14

He can only work with what he's got. Maybe without Wurz's input, Pastor would be slow and reckless, and Bruno even slower?


Just imagine pastor beingmuch more aggressive... It was Frank and Patrick who raced montoya, as well.
Just that Pastor could have made much more out of this GP if he were NOT to have crashed there. That is all whatit count, at this moment.

#2972 mdaclarke

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 21:31

I don't think Bruno is that slow. He was doing alright on a one sltop strategy until he was punted out by Kobayashi. I felt the penalty was harsh (although Bruno does seem to be in a lot of accidents!).

#2973 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 12:14

I don't think Bruno is that slow. He was doing alright on a one sltop strategy until he was punted out by Kobayashi. I felt the penalty was harsh (although Bruno does seem to be in a lot of accidents!).

But after the safety car he got in clean air after passing the backmarkers and wasn't particularly quick. He's generally at least about 0.5 a lap away from Maldonado which has to be a major concern

#2974 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 22:47

Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the importance of the home race, the British media still focus on McLaren so much like if they're the only British team...

Just a feeling.

#2975 TFLB

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 22:52

Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the importance of the home race, the British media still focus on McLaren so much like if they're the only British team...

Just a feeling.

Yes, that seems to be the case unfortunately, especially with Mclaren having two British drivers. It seems that the fans have adopted Mclaren as the 'national team' as well. A bit odd really, especially given that Mclaren was founded by a new zealander. In my opinion, Williams are the only true british F1 team.

#2976 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 22:58

Yes, that seems to be the case unfortunately, especially with Mclaren having two British drivers. It seems that the fans have adopted Mclaren as the 'national team' as well. A bit odd really, especially given that Mclaren was founded by a new zealander. In my opinion, Williams are the only true british F1 team.


So true. look at the Williams-Mansell/Hill era, it was indeed the team of UK.

#2977 Tiakumosan

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 00:15

But after the safety car he got in clean air after passing the backmarkers and wasn't particularly quick. He's generally at least about 0.5 a lap away from Maldonado which has to be a major concern


I can't remember right, but was not he in an 1 stop strategy, so he was caring about his tyres?

#2978 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:36

I can't remember right, but was not he in an 1 stop strategy, so he was caring about his tyres?

I'm pretty sure he was. The commentators were constantly going on about how di Resta was the only driver to make a 1 stop work despite Senna managing it even after a bizarre drive through

#2979 SpeedFanatic

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:57

I can't remember right, but was not he in an 1 stop strategy, so he was caring about his tyres?

Bruno was infact on a one stop strategy, but when the safety car came out on lap 28? it forced Pastor to pit a lot early than expected for his two stop strategy and forced him to a kind of one stop strategy. I think Pastor's tires were only 5 laps fresher than bruno's on the last stint.

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#2980 iotar

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:23

Yes, that seems to be the case unfortunately, especially with Mclaren having two British drivers. It seems that the fans have adopted Mclaren as the 'national team' as well. A bit odd really, especially given that Mclaren was founded by a new zealander. In my opinion, Williams are the only true british F1 team.

Isn't McLaren at least half Middle-Eastern now: Ron Dennis (25%), TAG Group (25%) and the Bahraini Mumtalakat Holding Company (50%) ? Is it the same Bahrain? ;)
About Senna: he was on eight laps older tyres, not five. Collision then lap 20: long pitstop, lap 24: drive through.

#2981 One

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:23

Bruno was infact on a one stop strategy, but when the safety car came out on lap 28? it forced Pastor to pit a lot early than expected for his two stop strategy and forced him to a kind of one stop strategy. I think Pastor's tires were only 5 laps fresher than bruno's on the last stint.


Kimi and Alonso both lost PLACES in one lap. Very tricky indeed.

#2982 TFLB

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 14:20

I'm pretty sure he was. The commentators were constantly going on about how di Resta was the only driver to make a 1 stop work despite Senna managing it even after a bizarre drive through

Senna's drivethrough was not bizarre, it was a perfectly legitimate punishment for putting Kobayashi in the wall.

#2983 Myrvold

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 15:43

Senna's drivethrough was not bizarre, it was a perfectly legitimate punishment for putting Kobayashi in the wall.


Sorry, what.

#2984 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 15:47

Looked to me like Kobayashi was sticking his nose where it was never going to fit.

I would guess Bruno was focussing on the car ahead and didn't see Kamui. But really with the amount of overlap that Kamui had a penalty for Bruno seemed very harsh.

#2985 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 15:53

Actually Bruno's engineers need to change that long 1st stint strategy as it causes him always to be ahead of a handful of stopping cars... I know this is rewarding if you messed up your qualifying but come on! it's not the 1st time somebody hits him while he's looking after his rubber...

#2986 TFLB

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 16:12

Sorry, what.

Penalties have been given for that in the past. For me it was not much different to Schumacher-Barrichello in Hungary 2010.

#2987 Francesc

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 16:13

Bruno needs to get his act together in qualifying. Last 3 races on the critical ending moments of Q2 he always messed up his lap. It's very strange this is happening to him when last year when he jumped in the Renault that probably was his strongest point.

#2988 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 16:21

Penalties have been given for that in the past. For me it was not much different to Schumacher-Barrichello in Hungary 2010.


I can think of 3 major differences.

Bruno returning to racing line - Michael going towards the complete opposite side of the track to racing line.
Bruno tucking in behind the car he was battling with - Micheal not following anyone.
Kamui barely getting alongside - Rubens fully alongside.

More than enough to make it a vastly different situation.

#2989 PNSD

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 17:27

Here's hoping a good result for the best British team ;-)! You wont see as many in the stands this weekend as in the past but those wearing Williams merch are the hardcore fans I'd like to know.

Mclaren are a team who for the most part attract fair weather fans, or the fans that call Schumacher, Schoomaker. Those same fans that crowded the stands wearing red hats now crowd the stands wearing black/silver hats crying out, "Lewis and errr.. Jenson?"

Williams, always and forever :D

#2990 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 17:30

No team is as patriotically British as Williams, so Silverstone is a very special race for them. Not to mention the memories of past glories! Hoping for a good race. Hoping Pastor keeps it cool a la Barcelona and Bruno can show a bit of qualy pace too.

#2991 TFLB

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 17:35

I can think of 3 major differences.

Bruno returning to racing line - Michael going towards the complete opposite side of the track to racing line.
Bruno tucking in behind the car he was battling with - Micheal not following anyone.
Kamui barely getting alongside - Rubens fully alongside.

More than enough to make it a vastly different situation.

But the end result could have been a massive crash in both incidents. If anything Senna deserved a penalty for being so clumsy and not bothering to check his mirrors.

#2992 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 17:45

But the end result could have been a massive crash in both incidents. If anything Senna deserved a penalty for being so clumsy and not bothering to check his mirrors.


No more so than Kamui for being so clumsy as to stick his nose into a closing gap. I don't think a penalty was fair in that collision.

#2993 TFLB

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 17:52

No more so than Kamui for being so clumsy as to stick his nose into a closing gap. I don't think a penalty was fair in that collision.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. Anyway, it's in the past and there's no point crying over spilt milk. At least Bruno got a point at the end of it all.

#2994 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 18:17

Yes let's. It's happened and nothing can change it. Hopefully this weekend will be a clean one for the team.

#2995 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 20:40

I can't be the only one who has noticed Bruno has more points than Felipe Massa this season...

#2996 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 20:47

I can't be the only one who has noticed Bruno has more points than Felipe Massa this season...


:up: I can honestly say that I hadn't noticed. Both have similar points tallies too, so it's not like Bruno had a lucky result somewhere.

I'd say the Ferrari has generally been the better car this year too. Not even Fernando can lead the WDC in a pile of junk. I don't think that excuses Bruno much though, it just shows how bad Felipe's season has been.

#2997 Little Leaf

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:46

Bruno needs to get his act together in qualifying. Last 3 races on the critical ending moments of Q2 he always messed up his lap. It's very strange this is happening to him when last year when he jumped in the Renault that probably was his strongest point.


Exactly, he needs to start off on the right foot and get into the top 10 in qualy. With the times so tight it will need a good performance from him.

Hopefully he can produce this weekend and then we will hopefully have 2 cars up in the points on merit rather than hoping other cars will drop out

#2998 Little Leaf

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 04:35

"Quite a few" updates for the car this weekend....



Q. (Vanessa Ruiz – ESPN) Bruno, we heard that Williams are bringing a lot of updates. Pastor was saying earlier that he feels a lot of pressure because it's Williams's home race and there are the updates, and a lot of expectation also because he has already won a Grand Prix, so I wonder how you feel about it, and also if you could explain exactly what you're bringing here, because you've been testing it since Mugello, if I'm right?

BS: I feel really happy that we're bring updates because everybody else is also moving forward. We have a few bits and pieces. We have wings and pieces of the bodywork that will be different, so it's always hard to quantify how much that will improve the car, but every little helps as we've seen in Barcelona when Pastor won. There was a bit of an update there. So, for sure, it's going to be the case of trying to maximise the package but again, as Paul said before, the weather is very changeable here and that can mean everything or it can mean nothing. But for sure, it's the team's home race, we want to do well, it would be great to finish with both cars in good points-scoring positions. I think that listening to everybody here, everybody is very optimistic about their chances on this track because everybody seems to think that their cars should be well suited to this type of track so I guess we're going to see another tough weekend, very close battles. Hopefully we can score some good points from there. There is always pressure on a driver, pressure is there every single time we're in the car.



#2999 mdaclarke

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 17:07

Hopefully that is Bruno's one crash for the weekend!!! I can see both drivers getting good points this weekend.

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#3000 Anderis

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 17:38

I can see both drivers getting good points this weekend.

It happened at Williams only once since Australia 2008- This year in China. It's interesting that almost every time when Williams have a competitve car, something is happening and at least one car gets no more than 1 point. Korea 2010 was a good chance, but at the end of the race Hulk got a puncture. Turkey 2009 was another opprotunity and Nakajima lost massive amount of time on last pit stop. The couple of other occasions were wasted due to one driver underperforming a bit (like couple of 10th places in 2010 from Hulk and Rubens while other one of those two was running few places higher) or a lot (like Nakajima many times in 2009 or slow Senna and crashing Maldonado this year).

I'm so tired of this that I would even prefer let's say: 5th and 6th finish than win a race and second driver without points. Especially when the team has finally got their win this year. :stoned: