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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#3001 Lord Snooty

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 15:25

Good session from Pastor today; 7th is a good result all things being considered. Bruno was unlucky so hope he has a better day tomorrow

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#3002 mdaclarke

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 16:18

I don't think Romain Grosjean spinning out and brining out the Yellow flags helped Bruno.

#3003 ivand911

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 17:17

Asymmetric exhaust:
http://www.auto-moto...otoshow_item=11


#3004 EVO2

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 21:39

Senna, nice guy though he is, is not fast enough to deserve this year's Williams car.

As for Maldonado, although he brings plenty of cash to the team, he is certainly fast enough, though a little reckless and this has to be reigned in.

The team certainly needs to replace Senna for 2013 but it has to be someone known to be fast.

While Webber, de Resta are out of reach, Sutil or Glock's names spring to mind but if Massa is let go, as it seems likely, he might be a good bet for an annual rolling contract.

If real progress is made in 2013, Williams could then be back in the hunt for a top driver.



Edited by EVO2, 07 July 2012 - 21:51.


#3005 Myrvold

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 23:25

Well, he said he slowed up for Grosjean, and actually, I believe him. He wasn't far of the 10th place in sector 2, he gained a bit in sector three, but far from as much as the most of the other drivers. I won't put the blame today on a "slow Senna.

And you really mean that Massa is a better choice than Senna? Massa, driving in a Ferrari, brings no money and, have 5 points less than Senna have so far this season.

#3006 Earthling

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 11:50

WCF Story

Williams have removed the Senna logo from their cars after 18 years since the passing of Ayrton. Says that they have Bruno now...

#3007 Mithrandir

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:04

I am getting tired of our drivers. They consistently underperform throughout the season, except in Barcelona.
Maldonado throws away good points in every race. Senna is just slow and needs to go, I don't care how much money he brings.

#3008 mdaclarke

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:37

Great move by Senna. I hope some people get off his back now.

#3009 tractionman

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:40

Senna had the pace for a top 5 bit he lost some 10 seconds in 2 laps at the end of his soft tyre run....... No idea why.

#3010 roadie

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:42

I'm glad to see Senna recovered to where he should have been at the start. He had one awful lap which put him down a few spots before the first pit stop I think.

The less said about MAL at the moment the better.

#3011 Massa

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:42

Senna had the pace for a top 5 bit he lost some 10 seconds in 2 laps at the end of his soft tyre run....... No idea why.


Both Red Bull, Ferrari and Lotus was faster.

#3012 tractionman

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:42

I am getting tired of our drivers. They consistently underperform throughout the season, except in Barcelona.
Maldonado throws away good points in every race. Senna is just slow and needs to go, I don't care how much money he brings.


Do you actually see the lap times before arriving at such a conclusion? If anything Senna has been faster at most races. His problem is in qualifying with the narrow window of the Pirellis- something that is affecting far more experienced drivers too.

Edited by tractionman, 08 July 2012 - 13:45.


#3013 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:45

Glad to see Bruno having a better race, bringing home some points. Again Pastor was involved in an incident. Don't think there's much to say about that.

#3014 Sevach

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:47

Maldonado has got to cool off... way too optimistic on cold tyres.

Good move by Senna at the end.

#3015 Francesc

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:54

Both Red Bull, Ferrari and Lotus was faster.


6th was on the cards for Bruno without that mistake.

#3016 tractionman

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:56

6th was on the cards for Bruno without that mistake.


Did he make a mistake? looked more like a drop off on the softs since his lap time was slow for even the lap after that.

#3017 Mithrandir

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:02

Do you actually see the lap times before arriving at such a conclusion? If anything Senna has been faster at most races. His problem is in qualifying with the narrow window of the Pirellis- something that is affecting far more experienced drivers too.


Of course I see the laptimes. Live timing in fact. Senna is generally 0.5sec slower than MAL in race trim and I am being generous. Sometimes it's 1 second.
Today was one of his best races this season, but he still couldn't match MAL's times, at least until his incident.


#3018 BigCHrome

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:09

Hamilton and Bottas for 2013!

#3019 4L3X

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:16

Good race from Senna. Maldonado has to listen to Wurz more.

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#3020 KavB

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:18

Williams need to fuse Senna's ability to stay out of trouble with Maldonado's speed. One of them needs to go. Williams should be in front of Mercedes after all their problems with Schumacher this year. They really should have kept Rubens or should have signed Sutil. Although to be fair at least Senna brought some points today.

Edited by KavB, 08 July 2012 - 14:18.


#3021 Tiakumosan

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:37

Great job from Bruno, but what happened with him near his 1st stop?

#3022 kenny

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:05

In terms of finishing in the points bruno has scored points in 5 races right? Maldonado in 2.
If Bruno can get his act together in qualifying, he should be doing a lot better... He is nonly 11pts behind pastor, who won a race...
I wonder if Bruno is experiencing the same issues as Button in qual, they cant seem to get the tyres to work well...

#3023 kenny

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:07

Of course I see the laptimes. Live timing in fact. Senna is generally 0.5sec slower than MAL in race trim and I am being generous. Sometimes it's 1 second.
Today was one of his best races this season, but he still couldn't match MAL's times, at least until his incident.

You cant just compare laptimes in a race when they are on different strategies...
He had a good race today, but I still think Malaysia was his best race this season...

#3024 roadie

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:25

Great job from Bruno, but what happened with him near his 1st stop?

Dunno. He had a 1.45 lap instead of a 1.38 or 1.39 from the Hulk or Button. He would have had a better final stint without that lost time, but made a great move on the Hulk to recover 9th. Well done Bruno.

#3025 Lord Snooty

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:43

Well, I think we are being harsh on Pastor; that was a racing incident and, to my eyes, a 50/50 effort at best by Perez. If 'blame' is being apportioned for that then I think Sergio needs to pick up the majority of it. It was a pity as it ruined Pastor's race; in the interviews afterwards I thought Pastor was calm and pretty reasonable in his analysis of it.

The problem is that there have been previous incidents, the worst involving Sergio, where, to be candid, Pastor was well out of order. I think he is in danger of suffering from the 'give a dog a bad name' syndrome with the media and some of the other drivers. Handy excuse to have when an overly optimistic pass against Pastor goes wrong; "wasn't me g'vnor, it was that mad dog Maldonado again".

Anyway, enough of that; Bruno did a good steady job today and if he can pick up his qually performance and if he can benefit from a bit of luck he may well have a good second half to the season.

#3026 Wingcommander

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 16:14

They need two good drivers. Now they have a fast one who can't finish races and another one that is just too slow. Williams should have scored much more points this year with the car that they've got.

#3027 Petroltorque

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 16:30

Maldonado has got to learn its one thing to drive agressively but you've got to leave your opponent some room. In this politically correct era of racing ant sort of contact risks a penalty.

#3028 Francesc

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 16:41

Dunno. He had a 1.45 lap instead of a 1.38 or 1.39 from the Hulk or Button. He would have had a better final stint without that lost time, but made a great move on the Hulk to recover 9th. Well done Bruno.


As I said driver error:
Mark Gillan
Bruno ran an excellent race and despite a small spin in the first stint...

#3029 GustavoB

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 17:04

As I said driver error:
Mark Gillan
Bruno ran an excellent race and despite a small spin in the first stint...


Hi Francesc,

can you give us a link to the complete text?

Thanks

Ok!! I found it:

http://www.williamsf.../news/view/2189


Gustavo

Edited by GustavoB, 08 July 2012 - 17:10.


#3030 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 17:17

As I said driver error:
Mark Gillan
Bruno ran an excellent race and despite a small spin in the first stint...


So he was one of the phantom yellow flags. I hate it when the lap counter goes yellow but the TV cameras don't show any incident.

#3031 gio66

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 17:17

Senna had the pace for a top 5 bit he lost some 10 seconds in 2 laps at the end of his soft tyre run....... No idea why.

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#3032 roadie

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:01

Car looks good there. Shame it's pointing in the wrong direction :stoned:

Whilst points were lost today, at least the team gained a small bit of ground on Suaber and managed to extend their slight lead over FI in the WCC.

#3033 Lord Snooty

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:01

WCF Story

Williams have removed the Senna logo from their cars after 18 years since the passing of Ayrton. Says that they have Bruno now...



Nice interview with Sir Frank which contains the amendment for the above.



"* This article was amended on 8 July 2012. The original said the "S", a tribute to Ayrton Senna, had been taken off the Williams car. This is incorrect and the "S" remains."

http://www.guardian...._medium=twitter

#3034 Anderis

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:12

You cant just compare laptimes in a race when they are on different strategies...
He had a good race today, but I still think Malaysia was his best race this season...

I think China was his best race so far, not Malaysia.
In Malaysia he did a mistake on 1st lap. Without that he could be fighting for something more than 6th. Maybe even for podium.
In China he did everything okay and even managed to finish in front of Maldonado, who surprisingly didn't crash that race although had many wheel-to-wheel battles.
I think China was better, as Williams wasn't there as quick as in Malaysia.

I'm looking forward to find out who will be Williams' racing drivers next year. About Silverstone everything I can say is that we were lucky that Perez was the car that Maldonado had collision with, Kobayashi didn't have a good race, Hulk made a mistake and di Resta had bad luck. So the team has gained some advantage over FI and still has a chance of jumping Sauber in WCC, but Maldonado has to stop crashing first. I think Williams with proper drivers would be easily over Mercedes in WCC. It's simillar situation to 2009, when the car had a potential to fight for 3rd or 4th in WCC, but the team finished 7th. But in 2009 there were more problems than just the drivers. Nico was doing OK IMO (apart from mistake in Singapore), but there were many bad pit stops and wrong strategic choice. Definetely way too much. This years is better, but there are two underperforming drivers, each other way. :|

#3035 Little Leaf

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:14

Nice interview with Sir Frank which contains the amendment for the above.



"* This article was amended on 8 July 2012. The original said the "S", a tribute to Ayrton Senna, had been taken off the Williams car. This is incorrect and the "S" remains."

http://www.guardian...._medium=twitter


That's good to hear. Wondered why they would choose now to take it off

#3036 BigCHrome

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:00

Yeah, Williams could easily have had 100 points in the WCC already if Maldonado would just quit crashing and Senna wasn't so bad.

#3037 ViMaMo

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:02

Its bit sad that the driver-machine never really clicked at Williams. Here is a very good car and Pastor could be bringing in valuable points/podiums for the team but he just seem too fickle. I wish the team had someone like Mark Webber or Kobayashi, wonder how the team would have fared with them .

#3038 Baddoer

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:44

I guess Webber will never drive for Williams after 2006.

#3039 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:51

Bruno and Pastor need some time together to learn from each other.

merging both of them into a Brustor Sennaldonado is a good choice too.

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#3040 Anderis

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 16:02

I wish the team had someone like Mark Webber or Kobayashi, wonder how the team would have fared with them .

The same Kobayashi that is being trashed by Perez this year? I don't think he is one of the best choices. Kobayashi got a penalty for a colision in Valencia and then he got another for what he has done to his mechanics in Great Britain. Maldonado would get really massive amount of critique if he would be like Kobayashi in last two GPs. And in terms of points he is far behind Perez, and could be even further behind, as Perez lost many points due to puncture in Spain, suspension failure in Monaco Q and colision with Maldonado in Great Britain.

But being honest, I think a top driver would have about 80-100 points in this car (FW34) so far this season. Maldonado would have so if not massive amount of mistakes. I think with solid driver pairing, let's say Di Resta and Hulk, they would be easily in front of Mercedes in WCC.
But another matter is that Maldonado and Senna bring together about 40% of team's budget. Nobody could compensate this. Even Alonso-Vettel pairing or something like that. Thanks to PDVSA and P&G Williams has stable financial situation. Thanks to them they could recover, hire impressive group of people with Coughlan, Somerville, Gillan and Harlow, and could think about strenghten the team instead of desperately looking where they can to cut costs as they would have to if they would go for something like Barrichello-Sutil pairing. With 40% less budget that car wouldn't be close to be frontrunner and the team would be in far worse condition and would have far worse prospects for the future.

If they will finish 2 or 3 places higher in WCC than last year, which is likely, and if they will find one or two solid independent sponors, they will be able to drop Senna and his sponsors without fatal consequences for the budget and hire somebody other for 2013. But there is a long way to find enough money to drop PDVSA.

#3041 One

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 18:14

Bruno and Pastor need some time together to learn from each other.

merging both of them into a Brustor Sennaldonado is a good choice too.


Kinda look like a gentleman and the beast.

Pity that Maldonado cannot turn his pace in to points, I guess that is what he should be doing.
I would replace Malodonadoif Williams were to find another serious money elsewhere. If the season ends like this, there are too many points which could be earned on the merit of the technical production of the team, including the race engineering.


#3042 Baddoer

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:32

Did Maldonado ran for 40 laps on one set of primes after his collision? I found this pretty fascinating.

#3043 roadie

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:58

Yeah, he did a 39 lap stint. It didn't work, but there was nothing to lose.

#3044 Sevach

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:18

Did Maldonado ran for 40 laps on one set of primes after his collision? I found this pretty fascinating.


The FW34 is somewhat temperamental with the tires, it doesn't particularly impressive on softs, but on mediums and hards it can go on forever.

#3045 Hans V

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:47

Maldonado seems to have reach the peak of his learning-curve. He totaly lacks humility and respect for other drivers. He should watch how Webber passed Alonso at the same corner he took out Perez - and be forced to watch how the top guy race each other with repect and room. Senna, as nice guy that he is doesn't seem to reach the final step.

My prediction for next year is that Williams lands the middle east bank they've been courting the last year as main sponsor, and thus hire Hamilton (who've grown tired of McLaren and fancies the thought of fronting Williams comeback as an absolute top team - and the admiration between Sir Frank and Hamilton seems to be mutual) and Grosjean (a true Williams-style racer, with a bit of Total money and big discounts on the Renault engines)!  ;) Maldonado heads in the opposite direction and takes his PDVSA-money to the financially struggling Lotus team. You heard it here first!

#3046 Baddoer

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 13:07

Maldonado seems to have reach the peak of his learning-curve. He totaly lacks humility and respect for other drivers. He should watch how Webber passed Alonso at the same corner he took out Perez - and be forced to watch how the top guy race each other with repect and room. Senna, as nice guy that he is doesn't seem to reach the final step. \

What a bullshit.

#3047 PayasYouRace

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 13:13

I'd love to see Lewis in a competitive Williams, to relive the glory days of Nigel Mansell and Damon Hill, when a win for Williams was a win for Britain.

However, I do think that Pastor just needs to be put back in the mindset he had in Spain. He not only drove fast, but with maturity and consistency. He does have it in him. It just needs to be unlocked. Whether Williams can afford to wait that long is another issue.

#3048 roadie

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 18:58

Glad to see VB's getting 2 days running in the young driver test. Hope the weather is workable...

http://www.williamsf.../news/view/2194

#3049 Sevach

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 19:02

Yeah, if the weather helps, they can actually focus on developing the car rather than "testing the driver" given Bottas experience with the FW34.

#3050 glorius&victorius

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 19:26

Maldonado seems to have reach the peak of his learning-curve. He totaly lacks humility and respect for other drivers. He should watch how Webber passed Alonso at the same corner he took out Perez - and be forced to watch how the top guy race each other with repect and room. Senna, as nice guy that he is doesn't seem to reach the final step.

My prediction for next year is that Williams lands the middle east bank they've been courting the last year as main sponsor, and thus hire Hamilton (who've grown tired of McLaren and fancies the thought of fronting Williams comeback as an absolute top team - and the admiration between Sir Frank and Hamilton seems to be mutual) and Grosjean (a true Williams-style racer, with a bit of Total money and big discounts on the Renault engines)! ;) Maldonado heads in the opposite direction and takes his PDVSA-money to the financially struggling Lotus team. You heard it here first!


financially struggling Lotus..?? have you not noticed the increase in sponsorship on that car? the prize money for points is mounting too. Lotus is doing just fine.