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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#3051 fhaneef

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 19:35

Maldonado seems to have reach the peak of his learning-curve. He totaly lacks humility and respect for other drivers. He should watch how Webber passed Alonso at the same corner he took out Perez - and be forced to watch how the top guy race each other with repect and room. Senna, as nice guy that he is doesn't seem to reach the final step.

My prediction for next year is that Williams lands the middle east bank they've been courting the last year as main sponsor, and thus hire Hamilton (who've grown tired of McLaren and fancies the thought of fronting Williams comeback as an absolute top team - and the admiration between Sir Frank and Hamilton seems to be mutual) and Grosjean (a true Williams-style racer, with a bit of Total money and big discounts on the Renault engines)! ;) Maldonado heads in the opposite direction and takes his PDVSA-money to the financially struggling Lotus team. You heard it here first!


Excellent - This is the best in all of the armchair experts :clap:

You really are an expert, should become Di Resta's manager :rotfl: :drunk:

Edited by fhaneef, 10 July 2012 - 19:36.


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#3052 Hans V

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:45

Excellent - This is the best in all of the armchair experts :clap:

You really are an expert, should become Di Resta's manager :rotfl: :drunk:

Don't take everything you read so seriously.

#3053 Hans V

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:36

financially struggling Lotus..?? have you not noticed the increase in sponsorship on that car? the prize money for points is mounting too. Lotus is doing just fine.

Really? Consider the following:

- They've posted accumulated losses of £55 million for 2010 and 2011. They will probably report a better result i 2012, due to that Proton/DBR-Hicom has waived a big loan in compensation for terminating the sponsorship deal beween Group Lotus and Lotus F1. That will strengthen their balancesheet, but doesn't give them anymore cash.
- Their main sponsor is GenII Capital - their owner. You don't make money by selling to yourself...... GenII is still funding quite a bit of the team and even this might be considered a marketing expense for GenII, I wonder how long they can afford it.
- The new deals with Unilever and Microsoft are not big money. Quite the contrary apparantly - sold cheap to raise the profile and attarct other sponsors.
- They do race by race sponsorship deals, like with Batman at Silverstone, which indicates they need money.
- I'd believe they had favourable terms on engines previously, but now they are a customer and have to pay Renault going rate.
- There were payments issues with Renault for the engines last year, but it was kept quiet as a conflict over payments would be embarrasing for both parties.
- The former Renault F1 team were bought by GenII with Reanult money, i.e. a favourable loan from Renault. I wonder if this is settled? Lotus f1 still have quite a bit debt, allthough it wouldn't include the Reanult loan, which would be in GenIIs books.
- Raikkonen doesn't come cheap and is a drain on the cashflow (allthough he is bringing in quite a bit of points which will give them more Bernie-money, especially if they manage to finish third in the constructors championship).

I'd think 2012 is make or brake for Lotus F1. GenII has spent a lot of money on their F1 operation and is looking to attract big backing based on a good 2012 - and thus starting to get some money back. The question is whether they can keep the operation going as we know it without a major cash-injection?

BTW, Lopez have recently been showing off his incredible car colletion. Is he planning a sale, and if so, why?

The uncertainty around Lotus F1 might therefore put Williams in a stronger position towards Renault, particularly if the drivers start capitalizing on the speed of the car.

Edited by Hans V, 11 July 2012 - 08:39.


#3054 seltaeb

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 23:23

Williams need to fuse Senna's ability to stay out of trouble with Maldonado's speed. One of them needs to go. Williams should be in front of Mercedes after all their problems with Schumacher this year. They really should have kept Rubens or should have signed Sutil.

100% yes.

#3055 joora

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 15:44

100% yes.


100% no. They either should've signed Sutil, Jamie, or even Heidfeld before keeping Rubens.

#3056 paulogman

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:57

williams went from being nearly dead last save for the newbie teams last season to winning a race and having a car that is consistently on the pace.
they are first and foremost an engineering firm. The car is the star, the driver is there to make it go round the track and as of late to help fund the rebuilding process. Putting second tier drivers in the car that can't bring sponsorship and maybe getting 6th place in the constructors standings is not the way forward for williams.
they have to continue to find the best financial arrangement from their drivers until a top driver will see the value of stepping into the cockpit of the best car on the grid, until then it makes no sense having an argument about this or that driver who could have scored more points than maldonado or senna.
they have the most money to push the williams engineering firm ahead and can on occasion showcase the speed of the chassis. maybe after next year if the team can consistently improve compared to the competition they may land a top flight driver for 2014.
otherwise they might have gone the way of Tyrrel which would be a shame.

#3057 Little Leaf

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:40

Can't help but thinking if the weather stays good at Silverstone this week that Williams have played this testing business right. When is the test the other teams are attending, at the end of the season isn't it? So Williams will have 2 days of testing the likes of Sauber and FI won't have in the middle of the season.

Hope it can push them further towards the front of the grid!

#3058 One

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:33

:up:

Can't help but thinking if the weather stays good at Silverstone this week that Williams have played this testing business right. When is the test the other teams are attending, at the end of the season isn't it? So Williams will have 2 days of testing the likes of Sauber and FI won't have in the middle of the season.

Hope it can push them further towards the front of the grid!


In Botta's hands, Williams has got continuity in feelng and assessing the developments. Looking forward.

#3059 Clatter

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:17

Can't help but thinking if the weather stays good at Silverstone this week that Williams have played this testing business right. When is the test the other teams are attending, at the end of the season isn't it? So Williams will have 2 days of testing the likes of Sauber and FI won't have in the middle of the season.

Hope it can push them further towards the front of the grid!


But look at the summer we are having. Rain is forecast for everyday.


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#3060 tractionman

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:55

Very interesting piece from autosport plus on Bruno's struggles. I am sure some would dismiss it as excuses but it appears that Pirelli's narrow window is finishing the careers of certain drivers. I think Bruno needs to walk away from F1 and race somewhere that does not need you to drive at 90%. Pirelli's efforts with the new wider operating window Hards may be too late for Bruno to save his future in the sport.

Edited by tractionman, 13 July 2012 - 13:03.


#3061 Baddoer

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 19:00

Rumours suggest that Bottas tested DRS-duct in Silverstone.

Edited by Baddoer, 13 July 2012 - 19:02.


#3062 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 19:21

Rumours suggest that Bottas tested DRS-duct in Silverstone.


Well... the team was running some tubes around the FW.

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#3063 FNG

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 20:54

I feel bad for Williams this year. They finally have a pretty decent car and 2 drivers who really aren't taking advantage of it. ( with the exception of the win for Maldonado of course)

#3064 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 21:02

I feel bad for Williams this year. They finally have a pretty decent car and 2 drivers who really aren't taking advantage of it. ( with the exception of the win for Maldonado of course)


Pretty decent but very unstable in the rear. its rearend steps out very easily! see how many times the guys spun this year...

#3065 One

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 21:11

Well... the team was running some tubes around the FW.

Posted Image


What an incredibe detail on front wing baldes cascades, beautiful.
Silver taped pipes looks very tiny.

#3066 OwenC93

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 23:32

Aero pressure sensors, not DRS.

#3067 Vesuvius

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 16:16

Well you were shown a video of him spinning and claimed there wasn't a spin there so :confused: He is a pretty safe driver though.


I think Senna's had his chance this year. I was happy to give him the benefit of the doubt and he looked promising at times with Renault at the end of last year. But it hasn't worked out. Whether Bottas is the answer is still open to debate, but he seems to deserve a chance next year.


yeah because he didn't spin at melbourne 2008...only run out of the track one time ;)

Bottas has showed that he is a driver who doesn't make mistakes, is fast and consistant, and has wiped Pastor Maldonado's A** fridays when both have driven similar programs :) of course racing is a different thing and how he will deal with that will be seen in the future and hopefully even this season as he definately would do a better job than Bruno does.

#3068 Anderis

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 17:16

Were they before or after Ferrari left him on worn inters when the rain started again?


Doesn't matter. Mauseri claimed that he has never spun. It's not true for whatever reason. Attacking Raikkonen was no intention.

Edited by Anderis, 15 July 2012 - 17:21.


#3069 MightyMoose

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 17:51

If you would be so kind as to stay on topic please chaps, discussion of KR does not belong here.

#3070 BigCHrome

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 02:21

I think that test was the first time they ran with the nose cameras behind the front wing rather than on the tip of the nose.

Edited by BigCHrome, 16 July 2012 - 02:22.


#3071 Elloh

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 00:38

Is Bottas going to drive FP1 this weekend also?

#3072 roadie

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:54

Yup, I would imagine so.

#3073 roadie

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 17:52

Fairly positive day out for the team...

#3074 Lord Snooty

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 19:51

It did seem a slightly better day; Pastor did well on the drying track.

Does anyone know if there are any new bits for this weekend?

#3075 paulogman

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:52

not sure about new bits, but the test they had at silverstone should have given them some much needed dry running that other teams haven't had

#3076 roadie

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 08:37

Good point. There is talk of new exhausts. I wonder whether we'll see these in FP3?

#3077 TFLB

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:01

The car looked very good this morning on the primes, but seemed slower on the options. I think Williams have had that problem before. It probably won't matter today though because qualifying looks like being wet.

#3078 Lord Snooty

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 15:17

Great effort by Pastor; should go some way to silencing those who claim he can't drive! Although, having said that, keeping a calm head tomorrow would no doubt help towards getting him a nice haul of points...

#3079 mdaclarke

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 15:24

I think both drivers have a good chance of points tomorrow. Senna qualifying has always been problematic all year but he has been better in the races.
Also grid position is less important at Hockenheim as overtaking is easier than at other tracks.

Edited by mdaclarke, 21 July 2012 - 15:24.


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#3080 roadie

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:51

Anyone know the speed trap figures? I fear a little for our drivers in the DRS zonw.

#3081 roadie

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:07

God the car is slow for some reason today. MAL has just plummeted down the order.

#3082 Mithrandir

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:14

The first stint was OK, but the strategy was awful. After that, there seemed to be a problem with MAL's car, he was just as slow as Senna.

#3083 roadie

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:38

I thought they pitted MAL too early just because others ducked into the pits. MAL then came back out in traffic when he would have had some clear track to see how quickly he might have gone. After that the lack of pace was just huge.

#3084 Anderis

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:50

Pastor run over some debris and since then his pace became really slow

The first stint was OK, but the strategy was awful. After that, there seemed to be a problem with MAL's car, he was just as slow as Senna.

Maldonado was much slower than Senna throughout the race. AFAIR there were less than 30 seconds difference between them on finish. But after first few laps Bruno was almost a full lap behind Pastor.
And Bruno's pace was very good, at least for some parts of the race. You could see somewhere in the beginning of the race he was running just about 4-5 seconds before Alonso. About 7-8 laps later Alonso still didn't lap him.

#3085 madrocker

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:56

Only MAL was that slow, SEN was much faster, just too far back to do anything about it...

#3086 Tiakumosan

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 14:36

What happened to Maldo? 1st stint was ok, then he dropped back too many positions.

Senna had problems on his 1st lap, but after he showed good pace, finishing ahead of Grosjean.

#3087 Kyo

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 15:06

The first stint was OK, but the strategy was awful. After that, there seemed to be a problem with MAL's car, he was just as slow as Senna.

After lap 2 Maldonado was 72s ahead and finished the race 28s ahead... even before the first maldonado's pit stop senna was faster, he had already closed the gap to 66s. Bruno would probably have another top 10 if not for first lap incident. too bad for williams.

#3088 DanardiF1

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 15:19

Only MAL was that slow, SEN was much faster, just too far back to do anything about it...


That's been a problem for Bruno most of the season. In race trim he's often very quick, but is unlucky/rash and has too many incidents. Maldonado has been poor since his win, and I can see Senna reeling his points lead in... would be quite embarrassing if Senna were to outscore Pastor despite him winning a race!

#3089 911

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 15:22

After lap 2 Maldonado was 72s ahead and finished the race 28s ahead... even before the first maldonado's pit stop senna was faster, he had already closed the gap to 66s. Bruno would probably have another top 10 if not for first lap incident. too bad for williams.


What happened to Senna on the first lap?

#3090 DanardiF1

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:01

What happened to Senna on the first lap?


Can't be sure, but he looks to have got a puncture from running behind Massa when he lost his front wing at the start.

#3091 PNSD

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:08

Pastor did not look good today. But as said live timing suggested Bruno was the man for Williams.

Half way through and still issues on Saturday. The next 10 races will probably be his last in F1.

#3092 Kyo

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:09

What happened to Senna on the first lap?

i didn't see exactly what happened, i just saw Bruno and Grosjean going off track with damaged cars, so i assume they crashed each other. Not really a surprise...

#3093 PayasYouRace

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:15

Pretty bad day for the team. Bruno had better pace but had too much ground to make up after lap 1. Pastor just dropped like a stone. Hopefully Hungary will be better.

#3094 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:19

Front left suspension damage for Pastor.

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#3095 TFLB

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:22

In Williams' post race comments it says that Maldonado sustained big damage to his car when he ran over the debris after ten laps or so, so that explains his lack of pace. This was a missed opportunity for the team, as both drivers had good pace. Maldonado was unlucky, and I didn't see what exactly happened to Senna but it seemed like he had another lap incident. He really needs to qualify better, then he wouldn't have such problems.

#3096 DanardiF1

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:22

Pastor did not look good today. But as said live timing suggested Bruno was the man for Williams.

Half way through and still issues on Saturday. The next 10 races will probably be his last in F1.


Bottas took all his dry running on Friday (and takes 1.5 hours most Fridays), so it isn't a surprise to see he is still working on the car on Saturday.

#3097 PayasYouRace

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:24

Front left suspension damage for Pastor.

Posted Image


So that's what happened. Crofty and Brundle pointed that out but as we never saw anything else I assumed it was nothing.

#3098 Kyo

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:37

Front left suspension damage for Pastor.

Well Senna was lapping more than 0,6s faster before the incident, but it could be just because Maldonado was stuck in traffic. hard to say.

#3099 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:38

Well Senna was lapping more than 0,6s faster before the incident, but it could be just because Maldonado was stuck in traffic. hard to say.

Senna in the clean air was fastest on track overall.

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#3100 joora

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 16:53

Too bad for Pastor, and Senna did it once again... his later pace was useless because he was still out of points.

Sauber has now a pretty hefty lead that I doubt they will loose so easily. I really think Williams should asses the situation and introduce some changes. Realistically, with drivers like Perez and Kobayashi they would be even ahead of Mercedes.