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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#3401 Little Leaf

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 05:09

I'm afraid Williams have never intended to maximize Senna's potential and always treated him as a temporary solution. I think it was a part of a long term plan.

Let's look at it:
- Williams had poor 2011. They needed to rebuilt the team. But they needed money to do this. They were lacking a bit of cash after placing themselves at 9th in WCC and losing title sponsor without replacement of it. They needed to make themselves able to build a competitive car again rather than having two competitive drivers. They needed money with an immediate effect in order not to go further with their crisis of performance.
- So they went for Bruno, as it was probably the most efficient way (mabye the only possible one) to gain the amount of money they needed. Moreover, they could force him to share the car with Bottas, as Bruno had no other reasonable options available. That allowed them to gain another $$$ (not very much though) from Bottas' personal sponsors for giving him that much time in the car.
- They've rebuilt the team before 2012. They get "a one off payment following a new commercial agreement for their continued commitment to Formula One" this year, and they will improve they WCC standing by 1 or 2 compared to last year. So they will be able to drop Senna's backing without that much negative influence on the team. And they will have Bottas, the driver who was probably intended by Williams to get a racing seat somewhere in the future. Bottas now has more experience in F1 car thanks to being that much in the car in the cost of Bruno. That will help him a lot.

So all in all, they've used Bruno in their plan to get money exactly when they needed it the most (winter 2011/2012) and to give Bottas more experience with F1 car making him more ready to be a future lead driver of the team. After this, they don't need him anymore so they will probably let him go. I would say poor Bruno, but it was his own choice to agree on Williams terms. And he could do yet another F1 season, which would be probably impossible without Williams. They knew they needed some kind of compromise in 2012. So they decided to go for an intermediate year with Bruno, with a risk of not maximising their 2012 performance, but with a better prospects in a long term.

I think Williams thought a simillar way that I've described. It makes sense for me. It could make even more sense for them.



This sums up the situation very well.

At the end of the day it worked out OK for both parties as Williams got the funds they needed to get a decent design team in place, and Senna got a drive when he didn't have any other offers. If Senna was fast enough the missed FP1's wouldn't have made that much difference. It's a shame as he seems a very likeable bloke and I would have loved for him to be faster than what he has shown so far.

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#3402 TFLB

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 10:07

I wonder what Williams would have done if they had signed Kimi?

The same probably.

#3403 Latos

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 10:31

The same probably.


And maybe that's the reason Kimi is not driving for Williams this year.

#3404 TFLB

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 10:36

And maybe that's the reason Kimi is not driving for Williams this year.

Also Williams wouldn't have been able to afford him. It's a good thing I say, I wouldn't want to see my least favourite driver in my favourite team.

#3405 Little Leaf

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 19:04

I wonder what Williams would have done if they had signed Kimi?


Instead of Senna? They would have had more points in my opinion

#3406 Anderis

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 19:28

Instead of Senna? They would have had more points in my opinion

If the only factor changed would be the driver, Williams would have had more points for sure.

But it's no use to consider that. If they could afford of hiring Kimi, they would have done it IMO. But they couldn't. Without Senna's sponsors and with paying Raikkonen's salary, the team would have had about $20 million less to operate last winter. It's a lot and it would mean necessity of firing some people, less resources for car development etc. It would make the team much less competitive overall and I don't think they were even considering this scenario after they failed to find sponsors interested in joining with a Kimi-Williams combo.

#3407 roadie

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:51

So Singapore is a track where the team have had some success. I hope it again plays to the strengths of the FW34 and that the drivers can have a clean weekend!

#3408 Tiakumosan

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:14

As the car was good recently at Hungaroring, I hope it goes well at Singapore.

#3409 Anderis

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:20

This car was good everywhere bar Canada and Monza, two tracks that are simillar to some extent, there is no reason why it should be slow in Singapore.

But to be honest, there is no reason why Maldonado wouldn't crash again and why Senna wouldn't struggle pace-wise again too.

I only hope there is no major amount of problems and retirements which would allow Force India to luckily jump into top5 at the race finish again, as it was in Valencia and Belgium. It would be a disaster if Williams aren't able to beat at least them in WCC this year. :well:

#3410 Little Leaf

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:47

So what are the chances of Pastor and Bruno getting their acts together and catching FI and Sauber?

I think Sauber are unfortunately too far ahead and have a good car. FI should be catchable and it would be a huge disappointment to finish behind them in the constructors table.

#3411 joora

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:41

So what are the chances of Pastor and Bruno getting their acts together and catching FI and Sauber?

I think Sauber are unfortunately too far ahead and have a good car. FI should be catchable and it would be a huge disappointment to finish behind them in the constructors table.


Maybe if Pastor finally cools down a bit we could jump in front FI. I've lost all hope that Senna could be faster.

#3412 nemtudom

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:51

Force India should be catchable with this car (well in reality it shouldn't just be cathable, Williams should be well ahead of them in the points), but to be honest I have lost my faith in the drivers. Maldonado may calm down some day, but I don't think we'll see much difference this year.

#3413 Anderis

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 13:19

Force India is easily catchable, Williams just need Maldonado not to crash during every opportunity of scoring decent points. It's a matter of putting well together just one race and Williams is again in front of them in the standings. The only worrying thing is that something like this didn't happen since Barcelona so it's no coincidence and may not happen to the end of the season as well, or may happen once but Force India will luck into top5 somewhere again and they will be in front again.

Roll on 2013. :drunk:

#3414 Little Leaf

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 14:01

I haven't lost hope that the ban given to Grosjean may have made Pastor stop and think a bit. He seemed to have a clean weekend at Monza.

Saying that with Singapore being a street track the opportunities to have an incident are higher

#3415 Anderis

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 14:10

He seemed to have a clean weekend at Monza.

Sometimes he has clean weekends or races when he is not going to score points.
He had a clean weekend in Germany.
He had a clean race in Canada.

I've never seen a driver who isn't lacking the speed but who crashes to that extent as Maldonado recently. So I assume and believe it's a matter of time when he decrease the number of mistakes and starts to deliver considerable amount of points.
But I'm not sure if he is going to start this with the next GP. He needs to have 2 or 3 clean weekends in row while fighting for good points. Otherwise we will never know if he is going to score any points if the car is competitive. One clean weekend outside the points is to little to prove that he has changed his approach.

#3416 Lord Snooty

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 15:30

The car should be good in Sing and, if Toto can be believed, Pastor has taken on board the need to not crash in every race! So, maybe, just maybe, we will see more points this weekend

:up:

p.s.

Toto's comments

"Williams's Pastor Maldonado will learn from his recent struggles and grow into a stronger driver, that is the view of the team's executive director Toto Wolff."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102619

#3417 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 17:31

Partor likes to push beyond the grip level of the car, and that's a street circuit. I hope he won't give the mechanics a night shift.

Q2 will be ultra tight.

#3418 Petroltorque

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:54

The remaining circuits no longer play to FI's Mercedes top end. Singapore and Suzuka are heavily downforce dependent and play to the strengths of the williams chassis. If Williams can get their challenge back on track( excuse the pun), they should get closer to Sauber in the points standings.

#3419 Little Leaf

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:20

The remaining circuits no longer play to FI's Mercedes top end. Singapore and Suzuka are heavily downforce dependent and play to the strengths of the williams chassis. If Williams can get their challenge back on track( excuse the pun), they should get closer to Sauber in the points standings.


They will require a minor miracle to overtake Sauber (which basically means Bruno driving like he did in Hungary for the rest of the season, and Pastor not driving into things)

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#3420 GustavoB

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 17:32

Just a little doubt....Bottas wll run FP1 whis weekend?


#3421 race addicted

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 17:35

Wasn't Senna going to get FP1 on all street-tracks?

#3422 Francesc

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 18:30

Bottas is not driving this weekend. Senna will get to drive Fp1 here in Singapore and in Austin.

#3423 TFLB

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 18:45

Bottas is not driving this weekend. Senna will get to drive Fp1 here in Singapore and in Austin.

Good, it will probably dispel the myth that his lack of performance is entirely down to not having FP1.

#3424 RedOne

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 18:53

Senna beat petrov here last year as team-mates right? I have a feeling that coupled with getting all the practice sessions means he should have a strong result here.

#3425 Murdoch

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:14

Senna beat petrov here last year as team-mates right? I have a feeling that coupled with getting all the practice sessions means he should have a strong result here.


Saying that though, he also got beat by Klein 2 years ago who was making his d├ębut for the team at that time. Although that could be put down to inconsistencies between the two cars?

#3426 Andrew Hope

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:28

I think it can be put down to Klien being a really good driver. Shame a guy younger than half the current grid has already been around so long no one's interested in signing him.

#3427 RedOne

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:52

I think it can be put down to Klien being a really good driver. Shame a guy younger than half the current grid has already been around so long no one's interested in signing him.

You would kind of expect Klien to beat Senna with his experience in F1, not saying he wasn't a decent driver.

#3428 Murdoch

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:56

You would kind of expect Klien to beat Senna with his experience in F1, not saying he wasn't a decent driver.


Not sure about that tbh, Senna had been in the car all year and got used to its 'handling', I was shocked that Klien came in and beat him by, what was it, half a second?

Just saying that Senna might not be as good round Singapore as was suggested.

#3429 RedOne

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:01

We shall see :)

#3430 Murdoch

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:22

We shall see :)


We shall, and to be honest, I hope i'm wrong :up:

#3431 TFLB

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:15

Not sure about that tbh, Senna had been in the car all year and got used to its 'handling', I was shocked that Klien came in and beat him by, what was it, half a second?

Just saying that Senna might not be as good round Singapore as was suggested.

It was 1.2 seconds. In Klien's next drive in Brazil, he beat Senna by 0.8 seconds. In between those, he was outqualified by Yamamoto by eight tenths in Korea. I think he may struggle in the coming races.

Edited by TFLB, 20 September 2012 - 09:17.


#3432 Andrew Hope

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:22

Yeah. Klien hadn't raced since the 2006 Italian GP while Senna had done 13 races that year (all but Silverstone, where Yamamoto was in the car). Klien qualified on a 1:52.964, Senna at 1:54.174.

#3433 Myrvold

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 16:47

It was 1.2 seconds. In Klien's next drive in Brazil, he beat Senna by 0.8 seconds. In between those, he was outqualified by Yamamoto by eight tenths in Korea. I think he may struggle in the coming races.


Though, in Brazil Klien was sent out at the end of Q1, which Senna wasn't. And as proved in Q1 and Q3 that day. It was important to be out on the track for a last second chance.

And with Colin Kolles as teamboss. I don't doubt for a second that Senna didn't get all the upgrades (lighter parts) that the other car got. Because Kolles wanted Senna out, but couldn't find a loophole in the contract.

Edited by Myrvold, 20 September 2012 - 16:48.


#3434 Little Leaf

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:09

So can we expect to see Bruno on Pastor's pace all weekend now that he has FP1?

Or will it be a repeat of Spa?

The car should be strong here

#3435 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:17

Jinx! pastor ran wide...

#3436 Little Leaf

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:47

Jinx! pastor ran wide...


He doesn't need me to jinx him, I can tell you that.

So far so good...

#3437 Anderis

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 13:17

So can we expect to see Bruno on Pastor's pace all weekend now that he has FP1?

Did we see Bruno on Pastor's pace all weekend when he had FP1 in Australia, Monaco and Canada? Not really.

#3438 Vickyy

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 13:22

Did we see Bruno on Pastor's pace all weekend when he had FP1 in Australia, Monaco and Canada? Not really.

Exactly, that is a lame excuse.
I didn't see Force India drivers suffering because one had to surrender his seat for FP1, be it Sutil, Di Resta, Hulk.

#3439 skywing

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:04

Senna... I bet Bottas was holding a huge smile. :lol:

Edited by skywing, 21 September 2012 - 14:06.


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#3440 Tiakumosan

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:07

What happened? I'm just "seeing" thought the formula1 site.

#3441 skywing

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:08

What happened? I'm just "seeing" thought the formula1 site.

Hit the wall and broke rear suspension

#3442 Tiakumosan

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:09

Hit the wall and broke rear suspension


Thanks!

#3443 glorius&victorius

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:11

Bruno Lalli has no talent for F1

#3444 motorhead

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:14

Director was well aware of the situation at Williams by showing bottas right after Senna crashed ;)

#3445 GustavoB

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 15:55

:evil: :mad:

ridiculous....

let's hope for a miracle in the qualifying and race.



#3446 Disgrace

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 13:38

Sauber and Lotus in trouble this weekend and Senna is given all the practice sessions to maximise his chances and he rewards his team by crashing out of FP2 and Q2. :down:

#3447 Little Leaf

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 13:51

Sauber and Lotus in trouble this weekend and Senna is given all the practice sessions to maximise his chances and he rewards his team by crashing out of FP2 and Q2. :down:


He seems such a nice fella but unfortunately that doesn't cut it in f1

I think bottas is looking more and more likely for next year

#3448 skywing

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:03

OMFG Senna, the other car is P2.

#3449 joora

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:04

WHAT A LAP

Congrats to pastor

#3450 Disgrace

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:04

Senna P17, Maldonado P2. :lol: