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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#301 race addicted

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 19:15

Well, now that Algersuari and Buemi have lost their seats, seems that Frank Williams has some really nice options (especially if Williams has gained the QNB backing as rumored and doesn't need a pay driver)

Who will it be?
Sutil?
Barrichelo?
Algersuari?
Buemi?
Senna?
Petrov (but I think he's basically in Marrusia)?
Someone else?



...But it's completely silent around Williams/QNB! Hopefully they are just still sorting it out, 'cause Williams are probably dependent on it. I don't think a driver with $5m or a little more is what they really need, although they could of course get both.

If Sutil still has backing, he's unrivaled as the best driver in that list. He's the best, and he comes with a sponsor!

I have a good feeling for next year, even if some of the air went out of the balloon when it turned out they weren't getting Räikkönen.

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#302 One

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 20:29

WE WILL SEE HOW GOD THE NEW TECHNICAL TEAM IS, ... from the driver choice....;) :p

#303 Sevach

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:08

Weirdly enough Williams is now in prime position to select their number 1 driver.

I'm shocked Red Bull droped Alguersuari... he deserves a lot of consideration.

#304 Starish

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:44

Weirdly enough Williams is now in prime position to select their number 1 driver.

I'm shocked Red Bull droped Alguersuari... he deserves a lot of consideration.

Why?

#305 Little Leaf

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 05:45

Well, now that Algersuari and Buemi have lost their seats, seems that Frank Williams has some really nice options (especially if Williams has gained the QNB backing as rumored and doesn't need a pay driver)

Who will it be?
Sutil? - Maybe, might be staying at FI now though
Barrichelo? - In pole position in my opinion
Algersuari? - Not over Sutil or Rubens, next in line though
Buemi? - No thanks
Senna? - No thanks
Petrov (but I think he's basically in Marrusia)? - No thanks
Someone else? Glock? Won't happen but would be a good choice



#306 One

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:23

FI has a better deal as they can also name the same list. Terrib;e for those who are involved.

Should Sutil sign for Williams longer term? I guess so, the team should go up. FI on the contrary will go down. But the result 2011 says that FI is a lot better deal... Could he see through it? Sutil is in the position to do so. If this voice may reach Sutil I strongly recommend him to visit Williams Factory and make a proactive move. Do not let future ruled.

#307 Sevach

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:55

Why?


Because he is a talented young driver, that already has some experience.
Is that not enough for consideration?

People are going crazy with the Sutil cool-aid imo.

Edited by Sevach, 15 December 2011 - 09:58.


#308 roadie

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:28

Well I certainly don't like seeing Williams feeding from the scrapheap of other teams. I wonder if they are just dragging things out to get a better deal out of Rubens, or whether they believe another driver is better? I wish funding didn't come into the decision!

#309 Sevach

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:10

Whatever driver they get has been droped by some team, Alguersuari, Sutil (still a question mark here), Petrov, Senna whatever... all droped.
Even Rubens was droped by Brawn in 2009.

Honestly Williams is not in a position to hire an Alonso/Hamilton, and given the current situation of the team... they actually found themselves in a surprisingly strong situation.

#310 joora

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:50

Well I certainly don't like seeing Williams feeding from the scrapheap of other teams. I wonder if they are just dragging things out to get a better deal out of Rubens, or whether they believe another driver is better? I wish funding didn't come into the decision!


well, the scrapheap ain't bad at all so far, when FI decides on their drivers, Williams has the perfect opportunity to dictate the terms to all the drivers that are left, because:
- they are the best team that has a vacant seat
- with the STR dropping both drivers, demand is insanely big, and drivers could agree to compromises (even to "will drive for jet fuel" like Rubens) just to stay in the circus a bit longer

I think Sutil (if available) and Alguersuari are the best available choices, both have shown the upward trend in form this ye arand outscored their teammates, with Alguersuari being younger and therefore has more potential.

If I was Frank, I would take either of them for a min. 3-year contract and build the car around them, hoping that Maldonado will explode next year, raising the competition between teammates.

Williams doesn't need an expensive driver like Raikkonen(but as a Williams fan I woul've liked that he signed for W instead LRGP), they need a dirt cheap driver who will be motivated and live for the team. And what better way of accomplishing that than giving them the hand of salvation?

#311 Francesc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:53

Williams won't sign a driver for more than 2 years, otherwise what they will do with Bottas?

#312 joora

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:04

Williams won't sign a driver for more than 2 years, otherwise what they will do with Bottas?


Well, if they've indeed secured QNB backing, they could drop Maldonado if he doesn't perform, or maybe sell the contract for Alguersuari/Sutil to other team if they really shine this year.
Or drop Bottas? (but I think Wolf won't allow that)

FW is good in negotiating, and they really have the upper hand in this situation, so they could pretty much offer not-so-favourable terms to the remaining drivers (long term commitment, performance-based salary, with minor penalties for the team if dropped, and larger penalties if the driver wants to go somewhere else). Someone will sign.

#313 Little Leaf

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:06

Williams won't sign a driver for more than 2 years, otherwise what they will do with Bottas?


Depends how long they intend on keeping Maldo.

If they secure funding from QNB and/or somewhere else then they could be in a position to let Maldo and PDVSA go if they so wish

#314 One

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 15:00

How come guys are forgetting Petrov already?

#315 primer

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 15:15

How come guys are forgetting Petrov already?

Mother Russia?


#316 Little Leaf

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 15:26

How come guys are forgetting Petrov already?


I would take Sutil and his Medion backing over Petrov.

Petrov hasn't really impressed me to be honest.

#317 Pilla

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 19:35

Mother Russia?


Marussia means Mary not mother Russia.

#318 Timstr11

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 19:49

“The first chassis is completed
with a second one not far behind,
and we’ll shortly start our FIA
crash test programme, and all of
those tests have been passed
already in private testing. We
now have a fully-defined car that
will be used for system checks, it
has a reasonable improvement in
downforce and will carry all of the
systems that will enable us to go to
the first test and be launched. Our
aim is then to have an upgraded
car for the final pre-season test.
“The car is slated to be delivered
to the race shop in mid-January
and we’ll be ready to go to the first
test in early February. The aim is
that by the end of January, all the
parts that can possibly have been
verified have been, and the track
testing is purely a verification of
that work. There should be enough
mileage on the major parts so that
if the car stops on track with a
fundamental problem, it comes as a
surprise. Other than that the testing
will focus on improving reliability
and the overall aerodynamic performance
of the car.
iGNITION


#319 SpeedFanatic

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 21:32

“The first chassis is completed
with a second one not far behind,
iGNITION

I found this more interesting:

"You’ve also got to take into account that the blown floor became more and more prevalent.
We spent a lot of development time in the wind tunnel looking at how much
time a blown floor might have gained us, but ultimately we couldn’t blow
the floor
, so we could say in hindsight that time would have been better
spent working on an un-blown floor. It’s a difficult one because you don’t
know at the outset what the gains will be, and a lot of time is spent getting
to the answer, at which point it might turn out not to have been worth the effort.”

Edited by SpeedFanatic, 15 December 2011 - 21:33.


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#320 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 21:40

Whatever driver they get has been droped by some team, Alguersuari, Sutil (still a question mark here), Petrov, Senna whatever... all droped.
Even Rubens was droped by Brawn in 2009.

Honestly Williams is not in a position to hire an Alonso/Hamilton, and given the current situation of the team... they actually found themselves in a surprisingly strong situation.

Rubens was approached by McLaren at the end of 2009 though (ahead of Button), so he was pretty highly rated.

Emotionally I want Rubens to continue but I think Sutil is the better choice. I presume the delay is waiting for Force India to make their decision. If they keep Sutil then Williams should keep Barrichello imo

#321 Little Leaf

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:03

I found this more interesting:

"You’ve also got to take into account that the blown floor became more and more prevalent.
We spent a lot of development time in the wind tunnel looking at how much
time a blown floor might have gained us, but ultimately we couldn’t blow
the floor
, so we could say in hindsight that time would have been better
spent working on an un-blown floor. It’s a difficult one because you don’t
know at the outset what the gains will be, and a lot of time is spent getting
to the answer, at which point it might turn out not to have been worth the effort.”


Because of Cosworth I presume

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

#322 One

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:23

Because of Cosworth I presume

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?


Still Williams finished in front of Renault engine team, which is then good. Or it is a must.
STR, FI both of them had engines that are equipped to Blow, that says a lot about their development pace. Ultimately unblown floor would not be quicker, otherwise Newey is not looking at it.
Besides, this gives positive view to 2012 as Blown Floor is and cold blowing is excluded unless you find loophole...


#323 roadie

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:53

iGNITION

Thanks for linking this, it is a must read! A few things I found particularly interesting and relevant for next year's car:

Mike said of the team’s new engine supplier. The advantages of the Renault powerplant are power, their ability to run at elevated water and oil temperatures and very low degradation in terms of power across the engine’s lifespan.”

I think people should get prepared for some quite different looking chassis next year, where the chassis height is kept high with a reduced nose height. It will be interesting to see how people treat that problem.

We have to extrapolate the performance of other teams in relation to ours and come up with a decision about how much of the difference is aerodynamically generated, how much is down to the engine and so on. We make some assumptions about where they are and then by looking at our own performance relative to it, we come up with a target system that says how much additional downforce we need to find.

And some final things about the FW33:

I don’t think it’s just aerodynamic, I think we made some decisions where effectively we gambled on something which would have cost us performance from a vehicle dynamics point of view, but which would have been outweighed by the aerodynamic gain,” he said. “That obviously didn’t pay off"

but it was fair to say that some of the problems we had were almost embedded in the car’s DNA, which made them difficult to deal with during the season when there is no testing. The important thing is not to make the same mistakes going into 2012 and beyond.

The FW33 has had some inherent weaknesses and the main thing is to ensure those don’t carry forward into the FW34, so what we’ve been doing in the last few months is testing at various events, and especially at the Young Driver Test in Abu Dhabi, ideas and concepts for the FW34 and to ‘design out’ the problems of the FW33 so they don’t reoccur next year.

as a team we had high hopes going into winter testing, and we’d taken fundamental design decisions based around aerodynamic concepts which, on reflection, were not the right way forward. To finish ninth with five points is not where we want to be. “Aerodynamically the car was weak relative to the competition, so we didn’t have enough efficient downforce and the general aerodynamic balance characteristic was probably not as good as the competition,” he added. “This meant that in terms of tyre wear and a few other areas we suffered more than others, both across one-lap qualifying and overall race pace.”



#324 Francesc

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:59

Expect to see tiny sidepods ala Red Bull, now that less cooling will be required.

#325 GSF1

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 12:17

Hey guys, been reading for a longtime, thought time to come on board, I hope and really hope that this car is the one to change fortunes, been a Williams fan since I started watching F1 back in the 80's, not to fussed about drivers, all about the team, Mike Coughlan, I hope he is right, but Sam has been saying the samething thing for the past few years with no avail. If we get QNB which looks likely, with the gearbox, which held up strong, Maldonado having a good step up, which he showed is possible with some very good performances this year, and hopefully Sutil, (no offence, but name a car Barrichello has developed, not a ferrari that was Sch, not Stewart ford, and definately not Brawn). All in all maybe just maybe Williams has finally got over Newey and can start moving forward, williams renault, it sounds sooo good, Maybe Bruno to finish what Senna and Frank started but never got to achieve. anyway hi all

#326 Little Leaf

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 12:20

Hey guys, been reading for a longtime, thought time to come on board, I hope and really hope that this car is the one to change fortunes, been a Williams fan since I started watching F1 back in the 80's, not to fussed about drivers, all about the team, Mike Coughlan, I hope he is right, but Sam has been saying the samething thing for the past few years with no avail. If we get QNB which looks likely, with the gearbox, which held up strong, Maldonado having a good step up, which he showed is possible with some very good performances this year, and hopefully Sutil, (no offence, but name a car Barrichello has developed, not a ferrari that was Sch, not Stewart ford, and definately not Brawn). All in all maybe just maybe Williams has finally got over Newey and can start moving forward, williams renault, it sounds sooo good, Maybe Bruno to finish what Senna and Frank started but never got to achieve. anyway hi all


All Williams fans are welcome here! :up:

Also good news that the car will be at the first test

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96774

#327 GSF1

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 12:28

Cheers mate, very kind, Few of us williams fans left it seems, sick of going to aus gp and seeing RB, Ferrari and Macca fans, time to bring back some proper heritage, a team that races to race, no agenda, no bull, just engineering and the love of the sport, and hey that's why we are fans, and admirers

All Williams fans are welcome here! :up:

Also good news that the car will be at the first test

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96774



#328 GSF1

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 12:28

Cheers mate, very kind, Few of us williams fans left it seems, sick of going to aus gp and seeing RB, Ferrari and Macca fans, time to bring back some proper heritage, a team that races to race, no agenda, no bull, just engineering and the love of the sport, and hey that's why we are fans, and admirers

All Williams fans are welcome here! :up:

Also good news that the car will be at the first test

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96774



#329 GSF1

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 12:30

Cheers mate, very kind, Few of us williams fans left it seems, sick of going to aus gp and seeing RB, Ferrari and Macca fans, time to bring back some proper heritage, a team that races to race, no agenda, no bull, just engineering and the love of the sport, and hey that's why we are fans, and admirers. The biggest must for us this year is to get that car out ASAP, get the development started early, and get on a good grounding with this new car, long way to go, but as Mike said, the facilities are some of the best, as they should be after 30 years in gp racing



#330 glorius&victorius

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 14:09

I have a hunch that Coughlan's car will lead the mid-pack...

#331 Starish

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 14:24

Yeah, I'm thinking next years FW34 will be a good car.

#332 sofarapartguy

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 14:26

Yeah, I'm thinking next years FW34 will be a good car.

Cause it just can not be any worse than FW33..

#333 Petroltorque

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 15:36

Whats more revealing is that Coughlan said that Williams went the wrong way on development of the FW33. Now who was in charge of development? Sam Michael. Very occasionally an organisation gets infiltrated by people capable of avoiding all responsibilty when things go wrong, The fact that Michael stayed in his post for so long suggest that Williams had serious flaws with its accountability structure.
Hulkenberg and Di Resta confirmed at FI, like thats news?

#334 sofarapartguy

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 15:39

Hulk at FI.

Sutil for Williams now?

Edited by sofarapartguy, 16 December 2011 - 15:39.


#335 Anderis

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 15:54

Sutil for Williams now?

I hope so. I also hope that Lenovo won't do any problems with Medion sponsoring Williams. Otherwise they will rather not sign him, as rumours say that Rubens has found some sponsorship.

#336 iotar

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 16:01

Hulk at FI.

Sutil for Williams now?

I read the rumour (source: somewhere) that there are two problems with Sutil: he expects one year contract from Williams and the second is Lenovo/Medion situation.



#337 glorius&victorius

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 16:02

Williams has a lot of choice out there:

- Sutil, fast and has matured. Will be eager to prove himself
- Alguesuari, getting better everytime he steps in an F1 car, also eager to prove himself
- Barichello, who is only in F1 these days it seems to get the "20 year tag" on his name
- Villeneuve, who has been making a comeback ever since he got kicked out Sauber


Something tells me Alguesuari is the best bet, who really looked more and more invincible this year.
With Sutil I still have some doubt.


#338 sofarapartguy

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 16:03

I read the rumour (source: somewhere) that there are two problems with Sutil: he expects one year contract from Williams and the second is Lenovo/Medion situation.


Lenovo/Medion situation i can understand. But 1 year deal? Why? Where does he want to go in 2013?

Edited by sofarapartguy, 16 December 2011 - 16:05.


#339 Anderis

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 16:08

IMO Williams shouldn't make any problems with one year contract with Sutil. They have nothing to gain by refusing that. One year deal is the best way to keep Sutil motivated, as he will have to prove himself once again in order to be in F1 for 2013 and beyond. In 2012 Bottas will do a lot of running and he will be prepared to take a 2013 seat if Sutil really would have better option than Williams (which is rather unlikely IMO) after 2012.

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#340 iotar

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 16:27

Lenovo/Medion situation i can understand. But 1 year deal? Why? Where does he want to go in 2013?

Mercedes? I don't understand it, either. Why would Williams take him for a year? Other option (Barrichello) is not exactly long term prospect.

#341 roadie

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 17:36

My ideal would be a one year deal for Rubens, with part of his role being imparting as much knowledge on VB as possible...

#342 One

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 17:37

Sutil No3?

#343 sofarapartguy

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 17:37

IMO Williams shouldn't make any problems with one year contract with Sutil. They have nothing to gain by refusing that. One year deal is the best way to keep Sutil motivated, as he will have to prove himself once again in order to be in F1 for 2013 and beyond. In 2012 Bottas will do a lot of running and he will be prepared to take a 2013 seat if Sutil really would have better option than Williams (which is rather unlikely IMO) after 2012.


Wrong. One year deal means that Sutil doesn't really consider Williams as a long term partnership and will spent 2012 in a cruise mode, aiming for a better seat in 2013.

#344 joora

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 17:50

Wrong. One year deal means that Sutil doesn't really consider Williams as a long term partnership and will spent 2012 in a cruise mode, aiming for a better seat in 2013.


Besides, he's hardly in position to make demands, I'm afraid Williams seat could easily slip under some other driver's behind.


#345 Trust

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 17:55

Jacques is coming back for sure. This is the biggest secret since Alonso going to Ferrari. :wave:

#346 g1n

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 17:56

Williams has a lot of choice out there:

- Sutil, fast and has matured. Will be eager to prove himself


after 6 years in F1 he will be eager to prove himself? :rolleyes:

#347 jee

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 18:06

Lenovo/Medion


Lenovo is holding 75% shares of Medion. Strange situation, so maybe not a con.


#348 Anderis

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 18:09

Wrong. One year deal means that Sutil doesn't really consider Williams as a long term partnership and will spent 2012 in a cruise mode, aiming for a better seat in 2013.

Even if so, I will repeat once again, he would need to show himself from the very good side if he would have had only one year deal. If he gets longer deal, he may feel quite secure and not push as much as he can, especially if Maldonado won't drive very good either.

#349 race addicted

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 18:18

A one-year deal makes perfect sense at this stage. If he performs as well as his potential allows, there is a (very) small chance of him being signed to a more competitive team, or more likely, Williams will want to extend the contract. However for Williams, it also means that if they show to be on the up, they might get hold of an even better driver. One also suspects they want to give Bottas a chance for '13.

#350 DanardiF1

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 18:55

I have a hunch that Coughlan's car will lead the mid-pack...


Same here.. a guy who had good ideas in F1 previously, whose also had some extended leave to come up with some new ones..